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AldermachXI

Hitting Jason through Doors - Intended or Not?

Should you be able to hit THROUGH doors?  

210 members have voted

  1. 1. Should you be able to hit THROUGH doors?

    • Yes
      69
    • No
      141


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1 hour ago, TiffanyCakes said:

Yea I was only responding to that last part .I agree with everything else  and I just wanted to take the time to mention all of the buffs to Jason to make it more easy for you guys.

Its not about making it easier or not for Jason. (Which by the way, it should be in a 1v1 scenario since this is an asymmetrical game) Its about what does and doesnt feel right gameplay wise more so than balance. 

Ever wonder why a -Shift Jason cant catch a car? Its because the base speed is slower than that for a car. Its by design since most of those types of Jasons tend to have more traps. Look at part 2 for example. He is designed to prevent you from ever even getting objectives done if you dont use teamwork hence the +morph and +traps. Do you see people complaining about that as a factor? No because it makes sense due to the design.

Since Rage itself is tied to ALL Jasons its a little different, but that just means that its something that should be looked at in a broader sense. Not a balance thing but more of a mechanic.

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I really can not understand people who stand for this, stuning jason trough doors is ridiculous.
Im pretty sure that this was never intentional, it's a glitch and should be fixed.

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Just now, Lexandremon said:

I really can not understand people who stand for this, stuning jason trough doors is ridiculous.
Im pretty sure that this was never intentional, it's a glitch and should be fixed.

I'm okay to meet people halfway on this.  If the door already has a hole, then yes.  But the weapon should also rebound if it hits the door like it does on the doorframe, meaning that only guns (flares and shotguns) as well as smaller weapons (wrench) are viable.

However, hitting Jason through a fully intact door?  Even if you are for door stuns, how does that NOT look like an exploit to you?

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1 minute ago, Thatguyinktown said:

However, hitting Jason through a fully intact door?  Even if you are for door stuns, how does that NOT look like an exploit to you?

This is where someone will address every part of a post but ignore answering such a question directly.

Timmy boy is the king of that.

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I'll be ok with counselors not being able to hit Jason through intact doors when Jason can't hit them through intact doors and walls... and not one second before.

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3 hours ago, AldermachXI said:

Point isn't lost at all. Players need to sack up and learn how to de-mask Jason without abusing bad hit detection and clipping.

Hit detection is bad even if you do it normally lol, Jason has terrible hit detection in the game. Even the counselors do too! One time I was at Crystal Lake at the little dock area, Jason broke down a door and I swung (Point-Blank range) at him and my bat phased right through him. He grabbed me and ended up killing me all because of the terrible hit detection in the game. 

 

In the case of door stunning, you're pretty right about the hitboxes. Jason's weapon and the counselor's weapon both clips through the door and damages the other side (counselors damage Jason often though-- I assume.) It would make sense if the holes were wide enough for a weapon to fit through it (Like 3 hits to doors to be able to damage someone on the other side-- 1 hit for Jasons with +Weapon Strength.)

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5 hours ago, AldermachXI said:

This is where someone will address every part of a post but ignore answering such a question directly.

Timmy boy is the king of that.

Ah back to the nicknames, ok Biff! Since you can’t see this I can only hope someone will screenshot it for you. If not, oh well.

Here’s answering the question direct. After how many hits is a barricaded door visibly damaged? Answer is 1 for +Destruction Jason, 2 for base Destruction. Which means that for the following 2 - 4 hits, there is a visible hole in the door making it no longer “fully intact”. So if I’m understanding correctly, the idea is that for the first 1-2 hits counselor attacks are not ok, but for the rest of the hits they’re ok! Are you guys sure though? Sure you won’t mind the 2-4 consecutive stuns? 

Let’s also address why anyone would use the door breaking animation in the first place ever. A base Destruction Jason correctly combat stancing the door can break it down in 7 seconds, which is only a second more than a +Destruction Jason using the door breaking animation. So why on earth would you knowingly choose to break it down in 12 seconds and make yourself vulnerable to attacks, when you can almost halve your time with CS and make it safe instead.

The fact is there is already an easy solution to this problem, and yet you are still talking about the problem to the point where you threaten to quit the game if it isn’t resolved to your standards. Which is a joke honestly.  It is but one part of the game which doesn’t require any more thought than simply using correct technique. I also doubt it is possible to have it your way coding-wise as well, this is simply the way the doors operate in this game and will most likely continue to.

The answer why a counselor would engage in door combat is also very simple, to the point I am surprised you can’t see it. It is not just for “trolling”, you are providing yourself with both 50% stamina off even 1 hit and also buying yourself time. A small cabin can be looted off 1 stun hit on Jason for example. It’s not difficult to see there are legitimate reasons for it.

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18 hours ago, Lexandremon said:

I really can not understand people who stand for this, stuning jason trough doors is ridiculous.
Im pretty sure that this was never intentional, it's a glitch and should be fixed.

Agreed a 100 times over.   Hitting Jason through the door is catching on more and more and is abused now more then ever. In 4 games last night.  I saw Jason getting hit through a door.. Counselors Dancing on the other side..  Jason players quitting after it happened a few times.    Its so beyond annoying to see.   Annoying to see Jason getting laid out so easily..  Annoying to see counselors abusing this bullshit.

Honestly can't blame newbie Jason players for quitting when seeing that shit.  Watching a few level 150 super try hards beat on a lvl 7 Jason by using doors is a joke.   

At one point i started calling out one of the people who are doing this and i had to deal with "Its part of the game, don't tell me how to play'.

Well your' "Playing is causing Jason players to quit..  and results in me wasting my fuckin' time".

 

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4 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

Agreed a 100 times over.   Hitting Jason through the door is catching on more and more and is abused now more then ever. In 4 games last night.  I saw Jason getting hit through a door.. Counselors Dancing on the other side..  Jason players quitting after it happened a few times.    Its so beyond annoying to see.   Annoying to see Jason getting laid out so easily..  Annoying to see counselors abusing this bullshit.

Honestly can't blame newbie Jason players for quitting when seeing that shit.  Watching a few level 150 super try hards beat on a lvl 7 Jason by using doors is a joke.   

At one point i started calling out one of the people who are doing this and i had to deal with "Its part of the game, don't tell me how to play'.

Well your' "Playing is causing Jason players to quit..  and results in me wasting my fuckin' time".

 

It needs to be patched out with the new engine. Door stuns are ridiculous.

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An easy fix is to make counselor melee attacks have that "bounce off" or "rebound" animation that Jason has when he strikes certain objects. Apply that to the doors and walls so they can't clip through.

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2 minutes ago, Redcat345 said:

It needs to be patched out with the new engine. Door stuns are ridiculous.

Its also ridiculous that 57 people in this poll actually think that you should be able to hit through doors.

I could be wrong and think that some voted to early before understanding how badly this being abused.   

But for every newbie Jason getting attacked through a door.  Usually ends up with the Jason player eventually learning this behavior and using it himself. 

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36 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

Agreed a 100 times over.   Hitting Jason through the door is catching on more and more and is abused now more then ever. In 4 games last night.  I saw Jason getting hit through a door.. Counselors Dancing on the other side..  Jason players quitting after it happened a few times.    Its so beyond annoying to see.   Annoying to see Jason getting laid out so easily..  Annoying to see counselors abusing this bullshit.

Honestly can't blame newbie Jason players for quitting when seeing that shit.  Watching a few level 150 super try hards beat on a lvl 7 Jason by using doors is a joke.   

At one point i started calling out one of the people who are doing this and i had to deal with "Its part of the game, don't tell me how to play'.

Well your' "Playing is causing Jason players to quit..  and results in me wasting my fuckin' time".

 

Agreed. The "it's in the game, therefore it's ok to abuse" mentality is just for meatheads. 

Some people just don't get the point. It's a by-product of shitty coding. It most definitely wasn't intended. Fully intact doors, partially intact, it doesn't matter. Hitting through doors is just shitty. All the benefits of doing it can easily be achieved by other (non-cheesy) means. Especially de-masking, which ironically is the reason abusers think is most valid.

It really is delightful when someone wants to abuse the glitch, and you CS the door, and then they call YOU a scrub.

"Hey...you counter-exploited my exploit! You're trash"...Priceless. It's almost as delicious as complaining about slashing when you had 2-3 pocket knives.

These silly "tech" kids like to draw comparisons to these strategies and strategies for fighting games like Street Fighter (frame data, counting frames, etc)...News flash, idiots: Street Fighter comes tuned without exploits for competitive play, and every release gets 2-3-4 additional releases with further tweaks and fixes because frame data IS a part of those games. You're taught ALL the mechanics in the tutorial, albeit sometimes indirectly.

F13's taught mechanics actually put you in danger. It's up to the player to learn how to unfuck themselves in a situation where they're using the intended mechanic. But hey...once people learn how to CS stance, it does become a non-issue. Sometimes you still get pulled into the canned one if you don't do it just right...nbd.

When it's all said and done, it doesn't matter in the end. I still end up killing 7-8/8 counselors every round. Stunning Jason is only a small part of the game. You still have to escape. Door stunners rarely do.

@Ghostboy20 actually watched me stream a bit last week and these 2 counselors were protecting each other really well, looping, door hitting and I was rusty as all hell after not playing for well over a month. Didn't matter. I still managed to get them once Rage came in. Making full use of Stalk was really important in getting them. Good players can always be outplayed by a better Jason.

 

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17 minutes ago, AldermachXI said:

@Ghostboy20 actually watched me stream a bit last week and these 2 counselors were protecting each other really well, looping, door hitting and I was rusty as all hell after not playing for well over a month. Didn't matter. I still managed to get them once Rage came in. Making full use of Stalk was really important in getting them. Good players can always be outplayed by a better Jason.

Yeah Chad and Vanessa had you on the ropes for a bit but Tommy was easy to get since he was trying to kill you lol

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3 minutes ago, Ghostboy20 said:

Yeah Chad and Vanessa had you on the ropes for a bit but Tommy was easy to get since he was trying to kill you lol

IIRC it was actually a Chad and Deb. Vanessa would have been a lot tougher.

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18 minutes ago, AldermachXI said:

IIRC it was actually a Chad and Deb. Vanessa would have been a lot tougher.

Oh yeah she must have been wearing blue lol That might be why I thought she was Vanessa 

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53 minutes ago, AldermachXI said:

@Ghostboy20 actually watched me stream a bit last week and these 2 counselors were protecting each other really well, looping, door hitting and I was rusty as all hell after not playing for well over a month. Didn't matter. I still managed to get them once Rage came in. Making full use of Stalk was really important in getting them. Good players can always be outplayed by a better Jason.

 

You ever get the pc streaming issues fixed? Wouldn't mind getting some folks on here together again for a few games... short lived last time.. 😕

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4 hours ago, badassgixxer05 said:

You ever get the pc streaming issues fixed? Wouldn't mind getting some folks on here together again for a few games... short lived last time.. 😕

I actually did :D I built a whole new rig last week. Stream runs pretty flawlessly with the upgrade. Wife even bought me a Blue Yeti microphone, so that's a major upgrade for the stream too. Now I just need to create more content but I've been really busy with work this week.

I'll probably stream some Super Mega Baseball 2 after work tonight. But that's at like 1 a.m. EST. 

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Just going to highlight some goodies, I know he can’t read them but I think others can certainly benefit from the responses -

14 hours ago, AldermachXI said:

"Hey...you counter-exploited my exploit! You're trash"...Priceless. It's almost as delicious as complaining about slashing when you had 2-3 pocket knives.

Calling light attack in combat stance an exploit! 😆

14 hours ago, AldermachXI said:

 These silly "tech" kids like to draw comparisons to these strategies and strategies for fighting games like Street Fighter (frame data, counting frames, etc)...News flash, idiots: Street Fighter comes tuned without exploits for competitive play, and every release gets 2-3-4 additional releases with further tweaks and fixes because frame data IS a part of those games. You're taught ALL the mechanics in the tutorial, albeit sometimes indirectly.

The game has combat / fighting, therefore terminology and breakdown of fighting games applies just the same when you are fighting in F13. Doesn’t matter if it is directly taught to you or not, it works the same therefore is analysed the same. It is universal and can apply to any game providing there is combat

14 hours ago, AldermachXI said:

But hey...once people learn how to CS stance, it does become a non-issue. Sometimes you still get pulled into the canned one if you don't do it just right...nbd.

No, no you don’t. Again spreading misinformation. If you are in combat stance, you cannot get sucked into the animation, that is whole point of the technique. So it is very obvious to me that you have not actually learned it correctly at all, despite the fact I posted an easy to understand video on it with clear instructions (which I know others have happily learned).

It is ironic that here people are arguing with me about door combat when actually I am the only one that posted a reliable, consistent solution for it for Jason. I solved your problem for you, and if it wasn’t for us “tech kids” there would be a whole lot less knowledge on the game in general. But what else is there to really be said, some people simply choose to be ignorant or their ego won’t let them accept otherwise.

All that said - the only “patch” I imagine could be made is to give Jason stun + damage immunity during the entire door animation. For combat stance it would not work, so you would have to give up both the opportunity to deal damage to the counselor through the door, and almost double your time getting into the cabin. For those reasons I would still stick with the CS method.

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Easier fix: patch the doors so that counselor weapons cannot pass through them and will impact on the inner surface of the door until door is damaged by Jason's weapons and will not hit Jason unless the hole made in the door is wide enough for the weapon to pass through in a swing.

Problem solved.

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On 5/4/2018 at 10:09 AM, HuDawg said:

Its also ridiculous that 57 people in this poll actually think that you should be able to hit through doors.

I could be wrong and think that some voted to early before understanding how badly this being abused.   

But for every newbie Jason getting attacked through a door.  Usually ends up with the Jason player eventually learning this behavior and using it himself. 

I don't have enough likes, to like all ur posts, come on!
stop it pls hahahahaha

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On 5/3/2018 at 8:53 PM, Tommy86 said:

Ah back to the nicknames, ok Biff! Since you can’t see this I can only hope someone will screenshot it for you. If not, oh well.

Here’s answering the question direct. After how many hits is a barricaded door visibly damaged? Answer is 1 for +Destruction Jason, 2 for base Destruction. Which means that for the following 2 - 4 hits, there is a visible hole in the door making it no longer “fully intact”. So if I’m understanding correctly, the idea is that for the first 1-2 hits counselor attacks are not ok, but for the rest of the hits they’re ok! Are you guys sure though? Sure you won’t mind the 2-4 consecutive stuns? 

Let’s also address why anyone would use the door breaking animation in the first place ever. A base Destruction Jason correctly combat stancing the door can break it down in 7 seconds, which is only a second more than a +Destruction Jason using the door breaking animation. So why on earth would you knowingly choose to break it down in 12 seconds and make yourself vulnerable to attacks, when you can almost halve your time with CS and make it safe instead.

The fact is there is already an easy solution to this problem, and yet you are still talking about the problem to the point where you threaten to quit the game if it isn’t resolved to your standards. Which is a joke honestly.  It is but one part of the game which doesn’t require any more thought than simply using correct technique. I also doubt it is possible to have it your way coding-wise as well, this is simply the way the doors operate in this game and will most likely continue to.

The answer why a counselor would engage in door combat is also very simple, to the point I am surprised you can’t see it. It is not just for “trolling”, you are providing yourself with both 50% stamina off even 1 hit and also buying yourself time. A small cabin can be looted off 1 stun hit on Jason for example. It’s not difficult to see there are legitimate reasons for it.

The thing is with combat stance if someone is behind the door and then moves, Jason's combat stance focus then moves and you end up hitting the side of the cabin.  Sometimes the weapon gets stuck, sometimes it does not.  Because once someone is behind the door, you're locking on to the counselor.  The counselor moves and you move because you're locked on the counselor...not the door as intended.

Now this isn't me saying just use the prompt animation to break it down.  The way you should break down doors, in my opinion, is standing to the side of them and side swiping them.  Of course this won't work with Savini or Part VI because of the downward thrust animation of combat outside of combat stance.  But as say Part VIII, the swings are sideways so when you figure out where to stand to do this to any door you now no longer have to worry about someone hitting you through the door, you no longer have to worry about some stupid animation entering the cabin leaving you vulnerable to stun and bonus if there is someone behind the door when you do this you can actually hit them as well. 

Now time efficiency I don't know if this is faster/slower than the prompt animation or combat stance as I've never actually tested it out however I feel this is the safest method and also allows you to damage the counselor on occasion. 

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@SirMang That’s what I’m talking about, but what you should be doing is side swiping AKA light attack in combat stance so that there is no possibility of getting sucked into animation. If you are on console you will have to lightly tap R2 / right trigger to execute light attack in combat stance instead of the heavy overhead. I posted this months ago here -

For Spear, there a couple of different methods which are safe, although I would recommend the combat stance heavy / forward thrust at an angle (last clip), since light attack / overhead can often get stuck -

There is no reason to worry about combat stance locking on to the counselor because it is locking on exactly where you want to hit anyway if they are engaging in door combat, not to mention this will also provide you with auto aim to easily damage them.

The only thing you have to watch for is angled door hitters, in which case you want to block, swing then interrupt with block on hit so that you will block before they can hit you again (but it will only work if you hit the door and also door frame). This probably requires its own video which I might make sometime.

Once a player learns the correct techniques, door combat is actually in Jason’s favour.

PS: Combat stancing doors offers a huge speed increase to the door breaking animation, you almost halve your time eg. a base Destruction Jason combat stancing doors takes only 1 second more than a +Destruction Jason doing it in regular animation.

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Hey everyone!

I just wanted to confirm that we have taken in your feedback about door combat and there will be changes implemented into this upcoming patch.

Counselors will no longer be able to attack Jason through damaged doors, but Jason will be able to sometimes hit the counselors if they are too close to the door while he is breaking it down.
 

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Just now, [IllFonic]Courier said:

Hey everyone!

I just wanted to confirm that we have taken in your feedback about door combat and there will be changes implemented into this upcoming patch.

Counselors will no longer be able to attack Jason through damaged doors, but Jason will be able to sometimes hit the counselors if they are too close to the door while he is breaking it down.
 

I wasn't against this or with this, but welp. I thought it was stupid anyways, since you're wasting your weapon.

I can hear complaints on both sides already. 

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