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1 minute ago, Shadesofjoe said:

Thanks! I had to take a break. I was getting no enjoyment out of the game as a Super Counselor running around and playing Jason with a gimped grab. Now that things are tuned a little better I find F13 much more enjoyable. 

And that's really all it comes down to. I think most feel the same way.

There's always gonna be those who want things easier. But this is much better than anything we've had since October.

I'm thankful for that.

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Just now, carnage4u said:

I find it hard to believe that people that want more items are often play in groups of either friends they know, private matches full of competent players, or just random games where teamwork happens.   In all of these scenarios, Jason can and still does have plenty of people escape.
 

I think the people complaining the LOUDEST are solo players in public matches. And players that love to beat up newbie public Jason non stop with 3 pocket knives in their inventory.

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16 minutes ago, Shadesofjoe said:

I don't want to get into ad hominem attacks against either side of this debate. So I'll just give my take.

If it's true that we get 5 knives (4 + Jarvis) on the large maps and 4 knives (3 + Jarvis) on the small maps, that seems about right to me. The smaller maps tend to favor counselors anyway because you don't need to survive as long to get things moving as parts are closer to their respective objectives by design. 

Window kiting is still a thing. I've been in matches since the update where stealth counselors equipped with sense perks were able to survive the night undetected. Organized groups can still effectively deal with Jason if they are coordinated and understand their roles. Jason is a threat, but I would submit that experienced and knowledgable players (which you tend to see more of in private matches, in my experience) can still survive with some regularity, although the margin for error is markedly slimmer than it was before... and that's okay. This should not be a game that goes out of its way to be forgiving of counselor mistakes, imo.

Is the balance shifted more toward Jason in QP matches now? Of course. But I would argue that it's prohibitively difficult to achieve true neutral balance in a QP environment anyway. Less coordination means that any change which favors Jason is going to have exponentially negative effects in these matches, as counselors are almost always less organized in terms of handling objectives and don't tend to communicate with one another throughout the course of the match. The amount of buffing counselors need in order to be effective in QP matches makes them orders of magnitude greater in the hands of skilled players, which is part-and-parcel to what we've seen in recent months. So what you're left with is trying to balance the game so that it's competitive for skilled Jasons vs. skilled counselors. 

The way I see it, adding more knives only lowers the skill cap and rewards players who don't want to put in the effort to learn effective kiting techniques and combat mechanics. 

I just want to start off saying, thank you for providing this incredible feed back.

When talking about pocket knives, this is my take:

1) Jarvis doesn't always get called

2) Usually sorry players that die immediately off the back and are likely to die again as Jarvis. Wasted pocket knife.

3) Normal Jasons have a set number of traps that currently outweighs the counselor's pocket knifes. It should at least be the same, as we can all agree, not every single knife is going to be used on objectives anyways.

As Kodiak had said before:

On 4/6/2017 at 2:58 AM, Kodiak said:

There's only a finite amount of knives in the map, enough to disarm all of Jason's traps and probably have none left after. That's a fair price to pay I think.

 

12 minutes ago, AldermachXI said:

You can't base balance off of what people do in QP. You have to base balance off of what happens when everyone is playing objectively (properly).

There is not written law that states how the game is supposed to be played or "properly" played. That is where your argument fails.

That's what makes this game so beautiful, that strategy differs from person to person, with the end game being to survive. Forcing people to use one strategy and one only - the whole session having to use team work - is what ruins this game.

I know plenty of people who have anxiety and cannot communicate with people whatsoever and they love this game. Forcing them to have to apply themselves in that aspect is unfair. You're obviously not thinking about the bigger picture. All you care about is the team of people you play with in Private Match and it matching your terms.

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6 minutes ago, Jawbone said:

Cheap shot eh. Two can play at that game.

giphy.gif

Image result for stone cold vince mcmahon hospital gif

 

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1 minute ago, stoney said:

I just want to start off saying, thank you for providing this incredible feed back.

When talking about pocket knives, this is my take:

1) Jarvis doesn't always get called

2) Usually sorry players that die immediately off the back and are likely to die again as Jarvis. Wasted pocket knife.

3) Normal Jasons have a set number of traps that currently outweighs the counselor's pocket knifes. It should at least be the same, as we can all agree, not every single knife is going to be used on objectives anyways.

As Kodiak had said before:

 

There is not written law that states how the game is supposed to be played or "properly" played. That is where your argument fails.

That's what makes this game so beautiful, that strategy differs from person to person, with the end game being to survive. Forcing people to use one strategy and one only - the whole session having to use team work - is what ruins this game.

I know plenty of people who have anxiety and cannot communicate with people whatsoever and they love this game. Forcing them to have to apply themselves in that aspect is unfair. You're obviously not thinking about the bigger picture. All you care about is the team of people you play with in Private Match and it matching your terms.

Cool. You do you. Colour outside the lines. I really don't give a shit anymore. Pocket knives won't be increased again and you'll have a miserable time unless you learn to ADAPT.

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5 minutes ago, Shadesofjoe said:

Thanks! I had to take a break. I was getting no enjoyment out of the game as a Super Counselor running around and playing Jason with a gimped grab. Now that things are tuned a little better I find F13 much more enjoyable. 

I agree sir. My preference is set to counselor and it just feels like Friday the 13th again. I am legitimately unnerved when Jason is in my vicinity. Feels good man.

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3 minutes ago, stoney said:

I just want to start off saying, thank you for providing this incredible feed back.

When talking about pocket knives, this is my take:

1) Jarvis doesn't always get called

2) Usually sorry players that die immediately off the back and are likely to die again as Jarvis. Wasted pocket knife.

3) Normal Jasons have a set number of traps that currently outweighs the counselor's pocket knifes. It should at least be the same, as we can all agree, not every single knife is going to be used on objectives anyways.

As Kodiak had said before:

 

There is not written law that states how the game is supposed to be played or "properly" played. That is where your argument fails.

That's what makes this game so beautiful, that strategy differs from person to person, with the end game being to survive. Forcing people to use one strategy and one only - the whole session having to use team work - is what ruins this game.

I know plenty of people who have anxiety and cannot communicate with people whatsoever and they love this game. Forcing them to have to apply themselves in that aspect is unfair. You're obviously not thinking about the bigger picture. All you care about is the team of people you play with in Private Match and it matching your terms.

 

Yeah, no.

That's a recipe for failure.

You can not balance a game that allows Davey Dumbass to play his game and succeed occasionally as Bobby Brains will use the same strategy without failure to win under all circumstances.

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1 minute ago, Caliph said:

Yeah, no.

That's a recipe for failure.

You can not balance a game that allows Davey Dumbass to play his game and succeed occasionally as Bobby Brains will use the same strategy without failure win under all circumstances.

Yet you're going to balance the game on professional players?

There needs to be a middle ground.

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3 minutes ago, stoney said:

Yet you're going to balance the game on professional players?

There needs to be a middle ground.

 
 

There is no middle ground. 

What a mediocre player can pull off 50% of the time the best will pull off 100% of the time.

When it's applied to win or lose that becomes an exploit.

That led to exceptional Chad players being nigh impossible to catch and stunning Jason incessantly.

I'm a good Jason and pre-patch I was owned by that reality.

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1 minute ago, Caliph said:

There is no middle ground. 

What a mediocre player can pull off 50% of the time the best will pull off 100% of the time.

When it's applied to win or lose that becomes an exploit.

There was a middle ground. Right before October.

No one seems to recall this because they are so in love with remembering the recent shitty item spawn glitch.

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2 minutes ago, Caliph said:

What a mediocre player can pull off 50% of the time the best will pull off 100% of the time.

Then how are the mediocre players going to get their 1st place ribbons? Hm?

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1 minute ago, stoney said:

I know plenty of people who have anxiety and cannot communicate with people whatsoever and they love this game. Forcing them to have to apply themselves in that aspect is unfair. You're obviously not thinking about the bigger picture. All you care about is the team of people you play with in Private Match and it matching your terms.

It's totally fine if you want to solo play. There are certainly characters and perk builds that lend themselves to that play style. I don't knock people who have different approaches to the game, especially if you primarily play in QP matches. It's good to have a character that's viable as a solo play counselor in that environment, given all the things I've noted above. 

I think you're selling yourself short if you believe that more knives is the only way to be more viable, though. I've seen so many good players, even in public lobbies, kite Jason very well because they have good map/cabin knowledge and understand how combat works. In those situations, they are avoiding being grabbed altogether so having more knives really doesn't make them more powerful. It's their skill. One of the fundamental gameplay principles of F13 is that you do not want to get grabbed by Jason as a rule. Almost every facet of the game is balanced around that singular notion. Sure, it's nice to have a knife every once in a while to get out of a sticky situation, but it seems to me that knives should be seen as a luxury and not an entitlement. Your ability to survive shouldn't be predicated on the chance of finding multiple pocket knives, but on smart perk choices for your character, your knowledge of the map, your ability to use the environment to your advantage, and your understanding of situational combat that provides opportunities to stun Jason and create room for yourself to continue moving.

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2 minutes ago, stoney said:

There was a middle ground. Right before October.

No one seems to recall this because they are so in love with remembering the recent shitty item spawn glitch.

 
 
 

I've been here since Beta, do tell me what middle ground you are referring to?

It's a subjective opinion but in the interest of conversation detail what specifically you mean?

I won't concede a point based on arbitrary pointing at a specific time and saying that period.

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9 minutes ago, stoney said:

Normal Jasons have a set number of traps that currently outweighs the counselor's pocket knifes. It should at least be the same, as we can all agree, not every single knife is going to be used on objectives anyways

As a Part 4 main, I say bring it on sweetie...max of three knives per map to match my three traps, which logically includes Jarvis? Mmm, tasty :JasonPt4:

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1 minute ago, kohagan said:

Ah, this threads still going strong ? 

It's a popular topic

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39 minutes ago, Caliph said:

I've been here since Beta, do tell me what middle ground you are referring to?

It's a subjective opinion but in the interest of conversation detail what specifically you mean?

I won't concede a point based on arbitrary pointing at a specific time and saying that period.

The middle ground that existed after patch 7.28.17 and before patch 9.21.17

 

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6 minutes ago, stoney said:

The middle ground that existed after patch 7.28.17 and before patch 9.21.17

 

 

I won't concede a point based on arbitrary pointing at a specific time and saying that period.

List specifically what middle ground you refer.

I want to understand your particulars.

I enjoy the game far more now than any time since beta sans the window breaks.

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54 minutes ago, DasMurich said:

Then how are the mediocre players going to get their 1st place ribbons? Hm?

By playing Jason? Thats what all Jason players are rejoicing about.

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1 minute ago, Caliph said:

I won't concede a point based on arbitrary pointing at a specific time and saying that period.

List specifically what middle ground you refer.

I want to understand your particulars.

When counselors had an unnerfed car and decent item spawn, but not over the top like it was in December. When counselors could fight Jason, but not be able to beat his ass and stun-lock him like in October.

When Jason didn't have crappy nerfs..

Like taking away his ability to layer traps or break down doors without a problem. 

When he could actually grab counselors going in and out of windows.

When his grab radius was so harsh it was called force grab (Yes, I know it needed to go, but it just made it more scarier to me)

If they just kept Jason the way he is now and continued to tweak his flaws as well as reverting the item spawn back to that between the time period I mentioned above and fixing the car; I wouldn't have anything to complain about.

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5 minutes ago, Jawbone said:

By playing Jason? Thats what all Jason players are rejoicing about.

That time-out broke me. I don't even know what that was about and I had to go back FFS. 

Yeah, no. If a mediocre player isn't as good as a "pro", then become pro. You don't dumb things down to the lowest common denominator.

Edit - I'm sitting out the rest of this no matter how tempted I am to make stupid remarks. 

This whole thing is just getting driven by stoney who thinks the update needs to be corrected Solution? Spawn 5 total knives over the current total of 5 knives and bring back Jason's force grab and adopt an equality of outcome perspective so everyone wins. Should put a fucking safe space somewhere on each map opposite of Jason's shack. Counselors can do Play-Doh QTE crafts and be able to open drawers full of bubbles. Maybe it can look like a big uterus inside. 

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26 minutes ago, stoney said:

When counselors had an unnerfed car and decent item spawn, but not over the top like it was in December. When counselors could fight Jason, but not be able to beat his ass and stun-lock him like in October.

When Jason didn't have crappy nerfs.

Like taking away his ability to layer traps or break down doors without a problem. 

When he could actually grab counselors going in and out of windows.

When his grab radius was so harsh it was called force grab (Yes, I know it needed to go, but it just made it scarier to me)

If they just kept Jason the way he is now and continued to tweak his flaws as well as reverting the item spawn back to that between the time period I mentioned above and fixing the car; I wouldn't have anything to complain about.

 
 
3
3
3
3
3
 

The days of a reverse escaping car are over.

That has been an issue since beta that people were complaining about. 

Its nerf was inevitable.

Forward escaping cars are still very hard to stop by non-shift strength Jasons considering you are not hamstrung by going offroad.

If you want a fast car you have perks or you'd need to concede offroad bringing flat tires.

There need to be more items in terms of variation but not more free outs from pocket knives.

You can fight Jason the same as you always could except you don't get the privilege of doing so with each counselor having free outs from the grabs, ridiculous healing potential from an absurd quantity of sprays, an armory of shotguns and 100% chance to stun against a large hitbox.

Having to slash to death counselors because more often than not they have a pocket knife is shit gameplay.

The kill moves are the whole point of the game in regards to Jason.

It seems at the core you want just enough room to win and be able to troll Jason while doing so.

To this, I and others say no. 

If you win it should be by the hair of your head and with no room for taunts or trolling.

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11 minutes ago, DasMurich said:

You don't dumb things down to the lowest common denominator.

Literally what just happened in the patch for Jason. Lazy blanket buffs that adversely affected one side of the counselors much more than the other in an attempt to stop the meta stam/speed/luck while only making it that much stronger. I'm not the only one that remembers Gun saying making tables destructible would be too much work am I? Its the reason the new patch is so terrible because it was the easiest, laziest choice to make.

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Mehh Game is trash.  Gave them multiple chances to improve it for everyone.  They didn't deliver.  They had to either make it cakewalk for the counselors or make it a cakewalk for Jason.  Couldn't make equal for everyone.  The developers just don't "get it".  Tells me they probably hardly ever played the game.  They just wanted to take people's money.    Onto Alien Isolation and Assassin's creed.  FAR superior games 

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Just now, DorianRo said:

Mehh Game is trash.  Gave them multiple chances to improve it for everyone.  They didn't deliver.  They had to either make it cakewalk for the counselors or make it a cakewalk for Jason.  Couldn't make equal for everyone. 

Its not supposed to be equal for everyone...  

Are people making new accounts just to make tons of stupid posts?

I keep seeing people cry about weapons.. I find a weapons EVERYTIME i play in seconds.   I survive alot still too.     Whaaaaat are you people crying about?  :D

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