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3 minutes ago, Rexfellis said:

Actually, I wasn't even talking about you. I was talking about @Patriots1. So unbunch your panties and go argue with somebody else since what I said had nothing to do with you.

Yeah...it's official, she has reading comprehension issues. That explains just about every exchange so far and why she's attacking the wrong people. Also the only reason anyone would ever agree with Jawbone lol.

Sexist me assumed because she was female, she could read.

Silly me.

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2 minutes ago, AldermachXI said:

Yeah...it's official, she has reading comprehension issues. That explains just about every exchange so far and why she's attacking the wrong people. Also the only reason anyone would ever agree with Jawbone lol.

Sexist me assumed because she was female, she could read.

Silly me.

How do I have reading comprehension issues when what he said could have applied to me? It's not my fault he mentioned no username or a direct indication of who he was referring to.

At least Jawbone isn't self-absorbed.

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12 minutes ago, Rexfellis said:

You should know better than to use sarcasm on the weak-minded,

I think stoney is right.

You shouldn't be so condescending and bigoted to stoney, he's made some good points. 

If we could get the game back to about 5 pocket knives, even if that means 4 spawn + Tommy's, I agree it'll balance things out. 

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@stoney I responded to @AldermachXI's post in response to @Patriots1 and @Jawbone which were his two most recent posts before my reply. It had absolutely nothing to do with you. I think you are just in defensive mode. Like I said, go argue with somebody else. I read your initial post, and didn't agree with it, but I stayed out of it until Patriots brought up that stupid idea about a hard mode and easy mode for the 100th time. 

So are you willing to just let it go, or are you hellbent on arguing with anyone who has a different opinion than yours? I'm cool with it either way.

@DasMurich I have stated twice that I was not talking about stoney. I still can't figure out where you get "bigoted" from anyway. But, this is such a snowflake society that saying anything that might offend someone is considered bigoted.

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Just now, Rexfellis said:

I responded to @AldermachXI's post in response to @Patriots1 and @Jawbone which were his two most recent posts before my reply. It had absolutely nothing to do with you. I think you are just in defensive mode. Like I said, go argue with somebody else. I read your initial post, and didn't agree with it, but I stayed out of it until Patriots brought up that stupid idea about a hard mode and easy mode for the 100th time. 

So are you willing to just let it go, or are you hellbent on arguing with anyone who has a different opinion than yours? I'm cool with it either way.

I only stopped "letting it go" once Aldermach had something impetuous to add.

But thanks for the clarification. I got it the first time.

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2 minutes ago, DasMurich said:

I think stoney is right.

You shouldn't be so condescending and bigoted to stoney, he's made some good points. 

If we could get the game back to about 5 pocket knives, even if that means 4 spawn + Tommy's, I agree it'll balance things out. 

So far there are 5 pocketknives on the playing field, tommy is the one that brings the 5th, I'm fine with this, makes it a challenge, however if they did add one more pocketknife it wouldn't change much besides people hording it so they have two ways of escape from Jason instead of working together as a team. So with things how they are I feel people can adapt and learn, fishing is a hard thing to do, gotta wait for ever for a fish to bite or I can go to the store and buy a fish, I feel better knowing I caught my dinner the buying it. You have more pride knowing you've escape with less items then before. But hey if you want an extra one :pocketknife: I'll give you one lol One extra pocketknife won't hurt unless they glitch it again and everyone and their mothers have their pockets full of them. 

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For all the people saying about Jason he only ever kills one at time and no in them movies ever though there's 6 or 7 of us let try beat the shit out of him, a small 8 year kid killed him in part 4 because he fought back, Jason like most slashers kills you right away because he gets the drop on you so you don't know he's there.

Part 9 he dies right away to a hail of gunfire too, Jason is only OP in the right situation, unless you count part 6 or 8 he seems pretty unstoppable in them films, even though he didn't get jumped by 7 at once still and Julius still fought back till he was tired.

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lol splitting hairs over an extra pocket knife or two like it changes the fact that you can't rely on them anymore.

Assuming there are now 4 pocket knives in play including Tommy's, how does 5 change anything?

You still have to rely on proper teamwork and coordination now. You're not just gonna loot for knives and try to kite Jason for 20 minutes.

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18 minutes ago, AldermachXI said:

Against retards, yes.

Against a competent group of counselors, hell no. He can still be beaten pretty badly by a group who works together. We repaired and started the car in the one Private Match I've played so far. Jason was a good player too. But 3 of us got away.

You just don't see much of that in QP because everyone is too busy leaving doors open and looking for pocket knives they will only use to slightly prolong their pointless lives.

I missed your weak ass arguments, Jawbone.

You guys can go back and forth on this all damn day. The answer is "teamwork" and "learn to play". Stop expecting the game to give you get out of jail free cards.

Says the guy who earlier just dismissed a well thought out post because he can't see it any other way but his. It funny because you were proud of how ignorant you were.

giphy.gif

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1 minute ago, Ghostboy20 said:

So far there are 5 pocketknives on the playing field, tommy is the one that brings the 5th, I'm fine with this, makes it a challenge, however if they did add one more pocketknife it wouldn't change much besides people hording it so they have two ways of escape from Jason instead of working together as a team. So with things how they are I feel people can adapt and learn, fishing is a hard thing to do, gotta wait for ever for a fish to bite or I can go to the store and buy a fish, I feel better knowing I caught my dinner the buying it. You have more pride knowing you've escape with less items then before. But hey if you want an extra one :pocketknife: I'll give you one lol One extra pocketknife won't hurt unless they glitch it again and everyone and their mothers have their pockets full of them. 

Where is everyone getting this notion that there are 4 pocket knives in every match then Jarvis with the 5th?

MAYBE on large maps in order to compensate for how expansive they are, but I have yet to see test done on this.

It is 3 on the small maps for sure, 4 when Jarvis spawns in.

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7 minutes ago, stoney said:

Where is everyone getting this notion that there are 4 pocket knives in every match then Jarvis with the 5th?

MAYBE on large maps in order to compensate for how expansive they are, but I have yet to see test done on this.

Look, it's pretty simple math. 4 knives plus Tommy's 1 is 5 knives. Sometimes 1 person has 2 and 2 others have 1. Sometimes 4 people each have 1. Sometimes 2 people each have 2. They can be found in drawers and on picnic tables. 

You shouldn't be so quick to assume that the numbers given to you are wrong just because they can from marginalized peoples. 

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10 minutes ago, Jawbone said:

Says the guy who earlier just dismissed a well thought out post because he can't see it any other way but his. It funny because you were proud of how ignorant you were.

giphy.gif

You mean the post where she started off by saying that she would ignore anyone who disagreed with her and then proceeded to reply again and again?

At the end of the day, she's wrong. Most players are happy about the changes and the devs can see that.

When building the difficulty curve for a game, you tailor it to the high end of the spectrum. The game needs to be fun and challenging even for skilled players.

You don't tailor it to idiots who can't grasp the core concept.

The game would be fine even if there was only 3 pocket knives - One for each objective. You gamble on using it to disarm an objective or keep it as a get out of jail free. You don't need 5-6 of them.

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2 hours ago, stoney said:

If you are going to:

  • Say to adapt
  • Say to quit complaining
  • Offer no actual feedback and instead want to troll
  • Scream about how Jason is Lord
  • Refuse to look at another person's point of view
  • Be vulgar and an ass for no reason

DO NOT REPLY TO ME OR YOU WILL BE IGNORED.

It's a shame that this has to be said from the get-go. Provide constructive criticism and responses that have meaning. Not a derogatory remark you wanted to say because you allowed your emotions to control your fingers as you typed. 

@AldermachXI

You mean where I asked for respectful and meaningful replies? That's asking people to not go against my opinion?

O. K.

"When building the difficulty curve for a game, you tailor it to the high end of the spectrum. The game needs to be fun and challenging even for skilled players."

Then why not tailor it to Jasons on the high end of the spectrum?

"The game would be fine even if there was only 3 pocket knives - One for each objective. You gamble on using it to disarm an objective or keep it as a get out of jail free. You don't need 5-6 of them."

Jason usually places more than one trap at each objective. 

Are you OK?

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1 minute ago, stoney said:

@AldermachXI

You mean where I asked for respectful and meaningful replies? That's asking people to not go against my opinion.

O. K.

You can't ask people not to say "adapt" when that's the answer.

You took advantage of a mistake by the devs in adding so many knives. Now it's gone.

You have to adapt. The same way Jason adapted by slashing when everyone had so many knives. It's really not that hard...Just look at your map. See those little circles moving around? Those are other counselors! Head towards them and keep them safe. They'll do the same for you. It's actually more efficient than a pocket knife, too, since you can defend each other as long as you have ANY weapon.

The only rebuttal to this statement is that you or other people aren't capable of being a team player. It's really that simple.

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4 minutes ago, AldermachXI said:

You can't ask people not to say "adapt" when that's the answer.

You took advantage of a mistake by the devs in adding so many knives. Now it's gone.

You have to adapt. The same way Jason adapted by slashing when everyone had so many knives. It's really not that hard...Just look at your map. See those little circles moving around? Those are other counselors! Head towards them and keep them safe. They'll do the same for you. It's actually more efficient than a pocket knife, too, since you can defend each other as long as you have ANY weapon.

The only rebuttal to this statement is that you or other people aren't capable of being a team player. It's really that simple.

If someone replied saying "adapt" then they obviously did not read my post at all.

IF JASON SLASHES AND IS CAPABLE OF COMBAT, WEAPONS ARE VOID. It's NOT rocket science, especially with those with weapon strength. It's also very frowned upon to bring Jason to another player.

I'm sure in the event of a zombie apocalypse, you'd trip everyone.

Hmmm. I'm sure that item spawn glitch occurred way after I began playing the game. 

 

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3 minutes ago, AldermachXI said:

You mean the post where she started off by saying that she would ignore anyone who disagreed with her and then proceeded to reply again and again?

At the end of the day, she's wrong. Most players are happy about the changes and the devs can see that.

When building the difficulty curve for a game, you tailor it to the high end of the spectrum. The game needs to be fun and challenging even for skilled players.

You don't tailor it to idiots who can't grasp the core concept.

The game would be fine even if there was only 3 pocket knives - One for each objective. You gamble on using it to disarm an objective or keep it as a get out of jail free. You don't need 5-6 of them.

Most forum goers are happy but we are in a extremely biased place where not even a fraction of the entire player base resides.

So why is Jason being tailored so that anyone can wipe the board as him? Why doesn't he require skill?

Do you only trap one objective on each car? Even still the fact that you can completely counter the usefulness of the pocketknife by just watching your map as Jason is silly. If that was fixed it would help a lot towards a better balance but its Gun so they have to do the laziest possible solution to any problem even if its massive overkill.

giphy.gif

 

 

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I don't want to get into ad hominem attacks against either side of this debate. So I'll just give my take.

If it's true that we get 5 knives (4 + Jarvis) on the large maps and 4 knives (3 + Jarvis) on the small maps, that seems about right to me. The smaller maps tend to favor counselors anyway because you don't need to survive as long to get things moving as parts are closer to their respective objectives by design. 

Window kiting is still a thing. I've been in matches since the update where stealth counselors equipped with sense perks were able to survive the night undetected. Organized groups can still effectively deal with Jason if they are coordinated and understand their roles. Jason is a threat, but I would submit that experienced and knowledgable players (which you tend to see more of in private matches, in my experience) can still survive with some regularity, although the margin for error is markedly slimmer than it was before... and that's okay. This should not be a game that goes out of its way to be forgiving of counselor mistakes, imo.

Is the balance shifted more toward Jason in QP matches now? Of course. But I would argue that it's prohibitively difficult to achieve true neutral balance in a QP environment anyway. Less coordination means that any change which favors Jason is going to have exponentially negative effects in these matches, as counselors are almost always less organized in terms of handling objectives and don't tend to communicate with one another throughout the course of the match. The amount of buffing counselors need in order to be super strong in QP matches makes them orders of magnitude greater in the hands of skilled players, which is part-and-parcel to what we've seen in recent months. So what you're left with is trying to balance the game so that it's competitive for skilled Jasons vs. skilled counselors. 

The way I see it, adding more knives only lowers the skill cap and rewards players who don't want to put in the effort to learn effective kiting techniques and combat mechanics. 

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1 minute ago, Jawbone said:

Most forum goers are happy but we are in a extremely biased place where not even a fraction of the entire player base resides.

So why is Jason being tailored so that anyone can wipe the board as him? Why doesn't he require skill?

Do you only trap one objective on each car? Even still the fact that you can completely counter the usefulness of the pocketknife by just watching your map as Jason is silly. If that was fixed it would help a lot towards a better balance but its Gun so they have to do the laziest possible solution to any problem even if its massive overkill.

giphy.gif

 

 

Jason does require skill against a competent lobby...We've been over this already.

Adding a gif to your post doesn't somehow validate it.

And while the forum may not represent the majority of the player base, it's definitely most capable of hashing out critical issues with the game. There's no bias. We just want the game to be challenging for everyone when played at the highest levels, and now it can be.

You can't base balance off of what people do in QP. You have to base balance off of what happens when everyone is playing objectively (properly).

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There are 20 minutes in a game.

If each counselor can survive just three minutes when pursued by Jason someone should live.

The average decreases if someone lasts longer and increases if you have poor players, as intended.

The average time needed for survival goes down even further if everyone can burn time off hidden and even more with Jason inefficiency which is based on the individual Jason.

Between teamwork, stuns, firecrackers, flares, pocket knives, windows, barricades, hiding spots, fear management and perks it isn't a huge request.

Items that are picked up and dropped display on the map.

That means one doesn't even have to risk going outside if you have intelligent runners.

The problems revolve around bad players running around the map from the get-go, being detected and then getting killed promptly.

It increases the average required survival time by everyone right from the start.

The counselor population needs to adjust by focusing more on the game clock and less on objectives.

Another issue is trying to repair when Jason isn't distracted.

This is amplified by poor repairers failing.

Both result in Jason morphing to the objective and killing another thereby hurting the rest.

One monumental strategy that everyone needs to learn is using Tommy effectively to harass and distract Jason. 

None are better at doing it and the longer he does the more likely people will survive through the night.

The game isn't going to be balanced around lone wolf all stars soloing Jason.

Counselors are going to have to learn teamwork.

And no, the devs should not dumb the game down to give wiggle room for those who refuse to adapt and insist on being a lone wolf commando.

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I find it hard to believe that people that want more items are often play in groups of either friends they know, private matches full of competent players, or just random games where teamwork happens.   In all of these scenarios, Jason can and still does have plenty of people escape.

It is the random games where no one works together, where people get slaughtered.   This doesn't seem like a problem though.  Seems like working as intended.   I think many of us play with groups of people and see Jason struggle against teamwork (and this does make sense to some degree). Adding more tools only really makes these groups really strong. 

maybe it sucks for games where people won't work together, but it can only take 3 or so people to make good progress on a map if they have the right combo of characters.

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2 minutes ago, carnage4u said:

I find it hard to believe that people that want more items are often play in groups of either friends they know, private matches full of competent players, or just random games where teamwork happens.   In all of these scenarios, Jason can and still does have plenty of people escape.

It is the random games where no one works together, where people get slaughtered.   This doesn't seem like a problem though.  Seems like working as intended.   I think many of us play with groups of people and see Jason struggle against teamwork (and this does make sense to some degree). Adding more tools only really makes these groups really strong. 

maybe it sucks for games where people won't work together, but it can only take 3 or so people to make good progress on a map if they have the right combo of characters.

Something tells me @stoney plays alone, hence the desperate need for pocket knives.

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11 minutes ago, Shadesofjoe said:

*Very well thought out post* That I did read.

Hey @Shadesofjoe haven't seen you in a while. Good to see you back.

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Just now, Rexfellis said:

Hey @Shadesofjoe haven't seen you in a while. Good to see you back.

Thanks! I had to take a break. I was getting no enjoyment out of the game as a Super Counselor running around and playing Jason with a gimped grab. Now that things are tuned a little better I find F13 much more enjoyable. 

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