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Mr. Blonde

The Jason Buffs are Weak

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We've finally gotten the news we've been all waiting for, Jason fixing. It was quite exciting seeing this moment finally happen. But then after skimming the Jason changes, it really isn't much that will make Jason all of a sudden a feared killing machine.

Here are the changes Jason is getting in the upcoming balance patch:

  • Each Jason will be gaining a small speed increase - this is not so fast as to make it impossible for counselors to escape from a Jason player, but it is enough to make Jason feel more relentless.
  • Each Jason will start with 2 additional throwing knives.
  • Jason’s grab reach and radius have been looked at and reworked - this should help alleviate the issues players are reporting of counselors slipping through Jason’s fingers, while still retaining a fair grab range for counselor players.

First Buff:

A small speed increase is a very meh buff. It doesn't specify if Jason will receive this speed buff just towards his movement or if it is a speed buff for his grab and attacks. But let's just say it's a 10% overall speed increase for both ground movement and attacks, it's OK but really isn't going to change much in the grand scheme of things. Any of the counselors are still going to be able to easily jog outside Jason's range and kite him for a good bit.

Second Buff:

Jason starts with two throwing knives now. Meaning you don't have to waste a minute of your time picking up the other two throwing knives in the shed which will give you four in total if you decide to. This is another very meh buff. It doesn't really impact much or target ANY of Jason's core issues. It's as if Gunmedia was like "Here's two pieces of candy, Jason. You can wipe some of those tears now." A better buff would be making it so Jason doesn't take an hour to pick up a throwing knife from the environment.

Third Buff:

This is the best buff. Having Jason's grab range fixed so counselors don't slip through your waist while your arm phases through their body is a step in the right direction. But is this really enough? No. And here's why:

Let's all pretend that Gunmedia cuts the amount of pocket knives, medsprays, and shotgun spawns in half in addition to these Jason improvements. Hypochondriac and Medic perks will forever make healing in F13 broken until they are properly addressed. Less pocket knives aren't as crucial since counselors easily tank traps or make Jason's grab borderline useless when grouped up. The less shotgun nerf is OK, but there's still a plethora of stun-city melee weapons and other items to mask it.

 

My question is WHY weren't these flaws of Jason properly addressed?

  • Jason's terrible and atrocious melee hit detection
  • Jason not being able to hit a counselor going through a window with melee or grab attack
  • Jason's Stalk being severely underpowered when it's supposed to be his most finesse skill
  • Jason still not being able to close doors.
  • Jason's traps still being rendered obsolete by counselor's easily tanking.
  • Jason repeatedly being stun locked over and over in rapid successions with no escape.
  • Jason's horrendous Morph accuracy and placement on map not being accurate half of the time.
  • Jason still not knowing which car is blue or yellow on the map.
  • Jason's fear mechanic still being an overall joke for counselors and it not promoting them to want to get away.
  • Part 7 Jason still being a complete joke in terms of underpowered.
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The movement speed buff will probably make it much easier for Jason to kill the slow counselors, but it was already easy to kill them. It will just result in even more people picking the meta speed characters.

More throwing knives will do nothing because it's hard to hit a competent player, it takes 2-3 knives to get someone limping depending on whether they run thick skinned, and you have to get them limping twice for every medspray because every player runs Medic. And there are enough sprays to heal an army.

The grab getting buffed will seriously help, even if it doesn't go as far as it used to be.

Yeah, I doubt they'll ever fix Part 7 because that would require acknowledging that not all traits are equal and that Part 7 is designed to fail.

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I think if you tank a trap, even if you heal your overall speed should be reduced. If you've just pried a rusty bear trap off your leg, without tearing up all the muscles, your limping no matter how much adrenaline is pumping through you veins. But I also think you should be able to sacrifice your melee weapon to set off the bear traps, giving Jason an alert, and leaving you defenceless. Let Jason collect counsellor traps, that way you might leave the players with less overall weapons.

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2 minutes ago, Thatguyinktown said:

So, how do you know the Jason buffs are weak, have you played the patch?

His main complaints have to do with how healing works, and he's dead right on that subject.

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9 minutes ago, Thatguyinktown said:

So, how do you know the Jason buffs are weak, have you played the patch?

Feel free to bump this thread months from now when you have plenty of weeks into the new patch.

Minimal Jason buffs that don't address his core issues along with item spawn reductions for counselors is not all of a sudden going to make this game's balance great. It's a step in the right direction, sure. But Gunmedia still has a long way to go if very good balance between one Jason player and seven counselor players is their goal.

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I scoured 

6 minutes ago, MichaelMemers said:

His main complaints have to do with how healing works, and he's dead right on that subject.

I was referring to the main thread, which was about the new patch buffs and not about healing.

Back to my earlier point, maybe he's right, and maybe this is too little, too late, but since we don't have patch notes released yet, we don't know what else they're going to fix (and the patches usually address a few bugs each time). AND we haven't seen real life demonstration of how these buffs affect actual gameplay, so, wouldn't it be prudent to actually address concerns with something you KNOW rather than what something might be?

 

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It's probably a petty defense but if Jason in all his forms gets 2 knives plus the 2 in the shack he's starting with 4 which could get you a limping counselor earlier on without burning 10 seconds for 2 knife pulls plus the stun exposure. 

If the speed boost shaves 5 seconds off each chase that'll save you up to 35 seconds. 

That's almost a minute of extra time. If the the grab is more effective that'll save a bit if time as well it it cuts down on whiffs and wasted shift grabs. 

Could all add up to an extra minute or more hunting time for Jason which has the potential to change the outcome.

But, like I said, petty defense, pure speculation, really going to see how it plays once implemented. And no, these changes do not at all negate the other issues. 

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Are people forgetting that reducing pocket knives and med sprays and shot guns isn't something that is labeled, "Jason Changes"?

Those are counselor changes or even more selective, counselor gameplay changes.

Those are more than likely going to be evident in this patch and honestly, I'd rather them focus on making a couple of things work really well with no errors or additional bugs THAN a whole list of things changed that may or may not work.

Baby steps people baby steps.

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2 minutes ago, Gummybish said:

Are people forgetting that reducing pocket knives and med sprays and shot guns isn't something that is labeled, "Jason Changes"?

Those are counselor changes or even more selective, counselor gameplay changes.

Those are more than likely going to be evident in this patch and honestly, I'd rather them focus on making a couple of things work really well with no errors or additional bugs THAN a whole list of things changed that may or may not work.

Baby steps people baby steps.

Baby steps is fine when your game is newly released and getting updated frequently, but we have to wait over a month, usually two months, for each update.

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1 minute ago, MichaelMemers said:

Baby steps is fine when your game is newly released and getting updated frequently, but we have to wait over a month, usually two months, for each update.

Do you want a patch with some stuff that is actually beneficial and will not cause any more bugs or do you want a whole book of 'fixing and rebalancing' only for it to potentially make the game worse?

 

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6 minutes ago, Gummybish said:

Are people forgetting that reducing pocket knives and med sprays and shot guns

I *believe* one of the devs on Twitter mentioned the increased item spawns were a coding error, whereby the game read "item spawn possibilities" as "item spawn inevitabilities" meaning that any possible item that can spawn on a map at the campsites will spawn, rather than having the possibility.  And since we haven't seen the patch notes yet, there's a possibility this will be corrected.

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3 minutes ago, Gummybish said:

Do you want a patch with some stuff that is actually beneficial and will not cause any more bugs or do you want a whole book of 'fixing and rebalancing' only for it to potentially make the game worse?

 

I think we'll probably get that regardless of the size of the update. Last month's update broke counselor traps even though it had nothing to do with them.

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Just now, MichaelMemers said:

I think we'll probably get that regardless of the size of the update. Last month's update broke counselor traps even though it had nothing to do with them.

Yes, this.  While only on the forums since December, I really haven't seen any mention of this and it happens to me about once every 3 games

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I wish they added 2 traps to each Jason.  Three  traps for Part 7 and Part 9 not enough to place for the phone, 2 cars, shack, boat, etc.  Or at least let Jason reset them.

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8 minutes ago, Jay Shen said:

I wish they added 2 traps to each Jason.  Three  traps for Part 7 and Part 9 not enough to place for the phone, 2 cars, shack, boat, etc.  Or at least let Jason reset them.

Okay, yes this too. If we can't reset the traps, and shift/destruction is still shit, you gotta give us something.

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15 minutes ago, Jay Shen said:

I wish they added 2 traps to each Jason.  Three  traps for Part 7 and Part 9 not enough to place for the phone, 2 cars, shack, boat, etc.  Or at least let Jason reset them.

-Traps should be 4 instead of 3. Resetting is cool but I think it would make regular trap Jason's too OP with traps, especially J2.

I think a lot of worry about how "weak" these buffs are comes down to playing style.

I don't mind at all to wait and see what it's like instead of making believe I'm Nostradamus and ending up looking like Nostradumbass.

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2 hours ago, Mr. Blonde said:

My question is WHY weren't these flaws of Jason properly addressed?

I'm sure they'll fix your other concerns in due time. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

2 hours ago, Slasher_Clone said:

But I also think you should be able to sacrifice your melee weapon to set off the bear traps, giving Jason an alert, and leaving you defenceless. Let Jason collect counsellor traps, that way you might leave the players with less overall weapons.

I agree with you on using certain melee weapons (everything except pot and pan) to trip a bear trap.

1 hour ago, Jay Shen said:

I wish they added 2 traps to each Jason.  Three  traps for Part 7 and Part 9 not enough to place for the phone, 2 cars, shack, boat, etc.  Or at least let Jason reset them.

If the pocketknives stayed as is, then 2 more traps each would balance out for Jason.

51 minutes ago, WashingtonJones said:

-Traps should be 4 instead of 3. Resetting is cool but I think it would make regular trap Jason's too OP with traps, especially J2.

If you gave -Trap Jasons 4 instead of 3, how would you balance Trap Jasons and +Trap Jasons?

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Leave the trap numbers the same but allow Jason to collect unused counsellor traps. 

No flare gun to trigger traps, but I'd let the shotgun be allowed. Anything long enough, so yeah no pot or pan.

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If these are the only parts of the patch to alter balance after two months of feedback, it's obviously pathetic and uninstall-worthy. That said, they've communicated there's more to the patch than this.

That 'more' better have melee hit detection under Bug Fixes, and PK/spray reduction under Counselor Balance changes. Otherwise, fuck these guys and this game.

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I honestly could just live if they had reduce the med sprays, pocket knives and shotguns. Before the patch, I could compensate and still get good rounds as Jason even with his t rex arms. I'm able enough to adjust to it and still get 8/8 about 75% of the time. After the items increase it really sunk to about 35% going 8/8. Every grab resulted in pocket knives to the neck. It was like you were punished for using it.

I've been playing since day 1, and have always prefer to be Jason. Ive always consider myself a very good Jason, but the last update really hamper my game a lot and I'm glad I'm not the only one feeling it.

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I don't understand why they are giving him more throwing knives, I haven't really seen anyone complaining that he needed more.

OK, so they are fixing his grabs so now he can eat even more pocket knives. This doesn't fix much until pocket knives are reduced as people are going to continue slashing instead of grabbing.

The beginning of the announcement stated that they are aware that it takes nothing to repeatedly lay Jason the fuck out (in so many words) yet the "fixes" they go on to list does nothing to fix that.

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1 hour ago, Fair Play said:

If you gave -Trap Jasons 4 instead of 3, how would you balance Trap Jasons and +Trap Jasons?

Leave them as is. Why does it have to step down in 2s at every stage?

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