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Kalist

Stop whining about Jason's grab

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5 hours ago, Tommy86 said:

Shift Grab was an unintended side effect? If that was the case why not just remove the ability to grab out of Shift in the first place? Even delay on Grab afterwards? Surely something you guys would've known about well before release I imagine. Too late now for that sort of thing, just surprised by that part of the post.

Oh I missed him saying that? 

They got lucky with that one I guess. That's the most exciting single action to do in the game. I hope that doesn't change. 

31 minutes ago, MrPyct said:

Whatever you say, Cowpoke.

@Gertz if the ship gets too far below water and you get itchy to jump hit us up. Tell them that Kyle N sent you ;)

https://careers.smartrecruiters.com/BehaviourInteractive/en

Stop it. How dare you bring that cheap imitation of horror up. Yuck, DbD.

It's as if the CW commissioned a game. Terrible, empty experience. 

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the only Jason's that spammed grab pre nerf were garbage Jason's so stop whineing that you're a bad counselor any Jason that spammed grab pre nerf were easy to escape from so stop 

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6 hours ago, WashingtonJones said:

His melee animation has him stepping forward. Would it be possible to add a similar step-forward animation for his grab? Or would that cause other problems?

It does, but we also have root motion enabled on the melee swings and we dont have to synch two players up. I actually had a discussion about grab today based on some info from this post so some smaller things may happen soonish. No promises though as I need to see how long some things will take and if we can fit them in.

6 hours ago, Tommy86 said:

Shift Grab was an unintended side effect? If that was the case why not just remove the ability to grab out of Shift in the first place? Even delay on Grab afterwards? Surely something you guys would've known about well before release I imagine. Too late now for that sort of thing, just surprised by that part of the post.

EDIT: Something unrelated I'll just mention here since you've dropped in. Please remove the invisible window bubble during counselor climbing animation, as this is one of the most heavily requested changes and has not been acknowledged by any of the devs yet.

So we knew about it but I don't think we knew that it would become as enabling as it became. We didnt want to remove it because we thought it was cool and its really satisfying. We just didnt want it to be as easy as it was.

Invisible Window Bubble? I probably know about it but call it something different.

For the record, I like DbD its a great game it just scratches a different itch for me. Denver is about as cold as Ill get, Monteal is a different level of cold.

- Gertz

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30 minutes ago, Gertz said:

Invisible Window Bubble? I probably know about it but call it something different.

@VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow made a video on this topic, please take a look at it. The problem I'm talking about is explained around the 4:30 mark.

This is an important issue that is constantly brought up, and is a terrible mechanic to keep since you have Jason players literally running into an invisible wall after a certain point in the counselor climbing animation.

I'm sure everyone would be very happy to hear from you that this is something to be patched out.

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1 minute ago, Tommy86 said:

@VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow made a video on this topic, please take a look at it. The problem I'm talking about is explained around the 4:30 mark.

This is an important issue that is constantly brought up, and is a terrible mechanic since you have Jason players literally running into an invisible wall after a certain point in the counselor climbing animation.

Yup okay, Im aware of this one. The collision volume is staying behind. People are heading out now but Ill follow up Monday to see where its at.

- Gertz

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7 hours ago, Cannon007 said:

You explained why there was the pop(Vader grab, force, etc). That’s a perfect justification of why that occurred to compensate for the lack of motion. So it compensates for what I was saying a 8ft tall person should be able to grab somebody 10-12 feet infront of them. 

Don't know what you've been smoking, but Jason is not and has never been 8 feet tall. 8 feet is as tall as the incredible Hulk in the golden age. The tallest Jason actor is 6'7" tall. Add boots and an oversized head and that's about 7 feet for the tallest Jason. And you are greatly exaggerating how far someone can reach in front of them. The former grab range was so long that it was abused and spammed over and over. I saw matches near launch where Jason didn't even swing his weapon at anybody, just abused the absurd grab until everyone was dead because it was too forgiving.

@Gertz My video above from 4:30 and onward shows the problem with the window invincibility barrier. Once a counselor gets one leg over, they are protected by a barrier that prevents Jason from approaching or attacking the window. It's also present when they jump through windows; even though the counselor is fully on the other side, the window barrier is present for the entire length of the animation.

EDIT: Did not see that you had responded already. Thank you for explaining what it is. "Collision volume" is the term, I see.

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3 hours ago, HuDawg said:

Ahh DBD.. The game where the trailers for their Big Bads on youtube  are the only thing fun about the game.  A game where the level designs look like something that someone created in GTA O creation mode.

Friday the 13th..  Looks better, plays betters, sounds better..  feels better..  Hell it probably tastes better too:wub:

 

I tried DbD at the store, and immediately three up in my mourh a little bit.  F13 is leaps and bounds a better experience, warts and all.

As the old saying goes, "you can put lipstick on a pig, but the bacon will taste the same."

No, wait that's not it.  "Never judge a book by the angle of it's dangle."

No, that ain't it either.  

DbD sucks.

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54 minutes ago, Gertz said:

It does, but we also have root motion enabled on the melee swings and we dont have to synch two players up. I actually had a discussion about grab today based on some info from this post so some smaller things may happen soonish. No promises though as I need to see how long some things will take and if we can fit them in.

So we knew about it but I don't think we knew that it would become as enabling as it became. We didnt want to remove it because we thought it was cool and its really satisfying. We just didnt want it to be as easy as it was.

Invisible Window Bubble? I probably know about it but call it something different.

For the record, I like DbD its a great game it just scratches a different itch for me. Denver is about as cold as Ill get, Monteal is a different level of cold.

- Gertz

Nevermind, I see someone posted a video explaining it.

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3 hours ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

Don't know what you've been smoking, but Jason is not and has never been 8 feet tall. 8 feet is as tall as the incredible Hulk in the golden age. The tallest Jason actor is 6'7" tall. Add boots and an oversized head and that's about 7 feet for the tallest Jason. And you are greatly exaggerating how far someone can reach in front of them. The former grab range was so long that it was abused and spammed over and over. I saw matches near launch where Jason didn't even swing his weapon at anybody, just abused the absurd grab until everyone was dead because it was too forgiving.

@Gertz My video above from 4:30 and onward shows the problem with the window invincibility barrier. Once a counselor gets one leg over, they are protected by a barrier that prevents Jason from approaching or attacking the window. It's also present when they jump through windows; even though the counselor is fully on the other side, the window barrier is present for the entire length of the animation.

EDIT: Did not see that you had responded already. Thank you for explaining what it is. "Collision volume" is the term, I see.

I wasn’t the person that came up with 8 feet tall. In prior posts about this subject I put him at 7 foot tall. I also do not expect anyone to be able to grab somebody just by using their arms. I have said in other posts realistically a person who has two feet of height difference would need to move forward while bending down to grab somebody effectively. In real life nobody would keep stationary while doing this either. So if people want to keep it simple With measurements 3.5 foot arms plus leaning 2 feet forward plus stepping two feet would create a grab distance of 7.5 feet with bare minimum effort.  I wouldn’t expect Jason to shoot like a wrestler while trying to grab somebody in the game but if he did he’d be able to cover a larger distance in a short amount of time.

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Jason's grab should not have to be changed and the amount of items the councilors have should not have to be limited. Jason just simply lacks a long range instant kill ability, unlockable and cool-down (that is not the throwing knife) that can be used to pick off groups that are intent on trolling him and not escaping. It could be set to trigger in an area of effect when there are more than one councilors in the bubble and has a targetable options.  He can throw his main weapon 50 feet away and decapitate a councilor running circles around him; there is a cooldown until next use. That would limit the group trolling shenanigans.

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14 hours ago, pioneer67fkd said:

any Jason that spammed grab pre nerf were easy to escape from

You must be a Vanessa main with good stamina management. Either that, or every time he used grab you stopped to regain stamina even more. Yes, you can do this, but it's incredibly boring to escape Jason that way. Pre-nerf grab made it almost pointless to even try and swing at Jason. Have you seen the pre-nerf grab videos being tested on the carpet? If not, I strongly advise you to watch them. I'm pretty sure Jason was able to grab counselors even when they were out of range for a bat swing, given that Jason initiated a grab at just the right time. There were also complaints about the shift grab, but has since then mostly stopped due to the grab nerf - since they go hand in hand.

If a Jason spams grab, you can actually punish him for it a couple of times now, if you surprise him by turning around and going for a swing doing his recovery phase. However, if it's an experienced Jason, you are in for a bad time as a counselor as he will do a 360 spin and then grab you during YOUR recovery from your swing :-)

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15 minutes ago, Kalist said:

 

If a Jason spams grab, you can actually punish him for it a couple of times now,

...Jason is supposed to grab...thats how he does his best kills.  "Spam comes from missing."  "Missing happens because his grab range is so stupidly small.   He shouldn't be punished for doing what hes supposed to do.

#makejasongreatagain  :D

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He should be punished for trying to do what he's supposed to do, if he is not doing it well. Else there would be no learning curve to Jason, and all you would have to do to win is walk forward.

Missing does not happen only because his range is smaller, most Jasons spammed and missed even more before the grab nerf - because there were no repercussions to it, besides the counselors being able to regain stamina for every miss, but almost no one knew that back then.

Now there is a bigger risk for repercussion, counselors can do a bigger gamble and go in for a swing and regain a even bigger pool of stamina, given that Jason doesn't dodge it. If Jason dodges it by being on edge, we're put in a vulnerable position. 

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52 minutes ago, Kalist said:

He should be punished for trying to do what he's supposed to do, if he is not doing it well. Else there would be no learning curve to Jason, and all you would have to do to win is walk forward.

Missing does not happen only because his range is smaller, most Jasons spammed and missed even more before the grab nerf - because there were no repercussions to it, besides the counselors being able to regain stamina for every miss, but almost no one knew that back then.

Exaggerating your point doesn't make it right.  "Alls Jason has to do is walk forward and win"?   What does that even mean..  WTF is winning in this game anyways? And when was this game ever like that?

There should be no repercussions to missing a grab besides slowing down and missing. Its the counselors job is to survive and try to escape whiles he's busy murdering and chasing other players.  They should not be all ganging up on him and beating the shit out of him while others escape.

If Jason isn't a HUGE threat then the counselors will obviously fight back, troll and escape.  Fighting back should be a last resort not plan A.

As i said before.. The grab range was always fine.. It was his grab animation that was the real problem.   

 

Anyways.. Jason is getting a buff. And hopefully the counselors get some nerfs too.  You may want the 'challenge aspect of the game placed on Jason.. I don't.  I want it placed on the counselors.   Since this is Jasons game and not the Counselors game..   Jason wins.

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8 hours ago, Kalist said:

You must be a Vanessa main with good stamina management. Either that, or every time he used grab you stopped to regain stamina even more. Yes, you can do this, but it's incredibly boring to escape Jason that way. Pre-nerf grab made it almost pointless to even try and swing at Jason. Have you seen the pre-nerf grab videos being tested on the carpet? If not, I strongly advise you to watch them. I'm pretty sure Jason was able to grab counselors even when they were out of range for a bat swing, given that Jason initiated a grab at just the right time. There were also complaints about the shift grab, but has since then mostly stopped due to the grab nerf - since they go hand in hand.

If a Jason spams grab, you can actually punish him for it a couple of times now, if you surprise him by turning around and going for a swing doing his recovery phase. However, if it's an experienced Jason, you are in for a bad time as a counselor as he will do a 360 spin and then grab you during YOUR recovery from your swing :-)

no actually im not i rarely use Vanessa i don't really main a specific character but its usually a decent to great repair one

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10 hours ago, HuDawg said:

"Alls Jason has to do is walk forward and win"?   What does that even mean.. 

It means that he was untouchable as long as he spammed grab while moving forward at that range. He didn't even have to side step when counselors went for a swing, even if he missed the grab. It's good that Jason is getting a buff, but there is a fine balance to it. Right now people find Jason too difficult to play as, which is a fair statement. But I also remember when people thought it was too easy as Jason, getting 8/8 all the time.

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I think @Alien_Number_Six said it best when he said the 'old grab' range made it literally feel like actually running from Jason. That game was exhilarating. I miss it very much.

@Gertz, don't focus on surveying consensus too much. Many of the people who miss the old grab don't play anymore and still others don't have the time or patience to post complaints about it. For instance, the guy who convinced me to buy the game doesn't play it anymore. Grab nerf killed it for him. He's not the forum dwelling type either, btw.

Still though, give us 8 feet to work with and let's see how it feels. I used to play F13 every. frickin'. day. Now, I don't play it at all. Please fix it! lol

 

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On 1/26/2018 at 6:33 PM, Gertz said:

Yup okay, Im aware of this one. The collision volume is staying behind. People are heading out now but Ill follow up Monday to see where its at.

- Gertz

Yeah that needs to go big time. 

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13 hours ago, Kalist said:

It means that he was untouchable as long as he spammed grab while moving forward at that range. He didn't even have to side step when counselors went for a swing, even if he missed the grab. It's good that Jason is getting a buff, but there is a fine balance to it. Right now people find Jason too difficult to play as, which is a fair statement. But I also remember when people thought it was too easy as Jason, getting 8/8 all the time.

You are just a causal game player,  not a Friday fan and certainly not a backer, the only people who think this game is about “winning” are casuals who play as counselors, this game is about Jason killing people and people trying to survive. Also nobody ever complained about Jason being to easy, that is a complete fabrication.

i hope Jason is buffed enough to where he was a threat like he was when the game started, he was nerfed for the babies like you, who have to “win”.

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23 minutes ago, NytmereZ said:

he was nerfed for the babies like you, who have to “win”.

Lol, what's with prejudice going on here... I never said I had to win, I do request some sort of asymmetrical balance though. You all have this "great vision" of Jason, he's got brute strength but he is dumb af though. He can be outsmarted, combat-wise or otherwise. 

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1 hour ago, NytmereZ said:

You are just a causal game player,  not a Friday fan and certainly not a backer, the only people who think this game is about “winning” are casuals who play as counselors, this game is about Jason killing people and people trying to survive. Also nobody ever complained about Jason being to easy, that is a complete fabrication.

i hope Jason is buffed enough to where he was a threat like he was when the game started, he was nerfed for the babies like you, who have to “win”.

I understand that the game is about Friday the 13th and overall Jason but do you really expect counselors to not put up a fight? 

When you're counselor isn't your goal to escape? 

I understand the frustration with Jason right now because of how weak he is but what is with all the casual player hate. 

Without them especially in the current state, the game would be dead, burned to ashes, and buried. 

 

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The grab range is fine as it is, I don't want to force grab someone from like 10 feet away but the hit detection on everything Jason is the problem.  If you're standing 2 feet in front of me and I go to grab you, I should grab you every time, not reach through you like 25% of the time.  Same goes with the melee attacks in the same situation. 

And being crouched shouldn't be a defense to being grabbed or melee'd like it apparently is in this game. 

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So I played with the bots yesterday. Now I think the grab needs maybe 1 extra foot. Not very much but an effective buff to reach length ONLY. Width needs a buff but I'm not looking at width, atm.

I think grab should work like an oblong diamond where it goes out horizontally, but narrows to the center as it goes out, but not to a sharp point.

I hope that made sense. I have a video that I want to upload that shows where I think grab should be effective. It might be where the new patch places it. If it is, then good work. lol

I'll upload sometime in the next day or so. Hopefully.

Edit: The point at the end should be a little more narrow than Jason's char. but not too much.

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