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Stop whining about Jason's grab

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3 minutes ago, Cannon007 said:

So based on that video and your numbers the full rug was not between them the person was about 2 feet from the end of the rug. So a 8 foot tall person could not reach a person 10 feet infront of them

Arm reach is generally half of your height, your arm span from finger tip to finger tip is roughly the same as your height. If we wanted to be realistic his reach should be 4 ft but that felt like shit. Add latency to that and the abuse of shift grab and we had to reduce it. Its not always about numbers, making things realistic in game generally doesn't equal fun. If it did we wouldnt play the game we would do the thing...except with killing people, you shouldn't ever kill people

- Gertz

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10 minutes ago, Cannon007 said:

So based on that video and your numbers the full rug was not between them the person was about 2 feet from the end of the rug. So a 8 foot tall person could not reach a person 10 feet infront of them? More than likely not standing up straight with their arms out but with moving forward while leaning forward they should be able to cover that distance in seconds.

I get what your saying at the end but having fluid animations that can blend like that to allow someone to lean into and grab someone realistically would be a shit ton of work that the game doesn't support right now. I would love it if it did though.

- Gertz

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That’s my problem with this, you guys seem to have a poor understanding of how people move to be able to grab and pick somebody up and the spacing of those motions. People don’t lift and grab with their arms they do that with their whole body.

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6 minutes ago, Gertz said:

Arm reach is generally half of your height, your arm span from finger tip to finger tip is roughly the same as your height. If we wanted to be realistic his reach should be 4 ft but that felt like shit.

And if you lean forward to grab you add another 2-3 feet to it. And you end up with a 6 foot grab range.  Which is realistic.   (Im doing it right now, with a tape measure and my reach is 6 feet., standing still my reach is about 3.5 feet? Basically i double my range by stepping forward and leaning into it.

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4 minutes ago, Gertz said:

I get what your saying at the end but having fluid animations that can blend like that to allow someone to lean into and grab someone realistically would be a shit ton of work that the game doesn't support right now. I would love it if it did though.

- Gertz

Ok that’s fine but that’s the justification for Vader grab and I’m fine with it being a shorter grab distance but justify the force grab with the explanation you just gave. When it comes down to it the grab range needs to be wider and longer than it is now. When people are playing naturally they won’t notice if there’s some Vader grabbing going on.

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4 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

Jason is about 6 feet.   In those videos the length that he grabs is the same as his height.

I mean..  If it looks like 10-12 feet to you then Jason must be 10 feet tall?

I didn't base it off of that video. I was pulling from memory.

But even with that video, that grab doesn't look stupid to you? 

Just now, HuDawg said:

And if you lean forward to grab you add another 2 feet to it. And you end up with a 6 foot grab range. 

Right now, from his body to the end of his grab range is about 6 feet, or he gets 2 extra feet past his hand. I tested it myself. 

In that video just posted here, even if there was a lean-forward animation, he still shouldn't be able to reach her. 

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6 minutes ago, Gertz said:

I get what your saying at the end but having fluid animations that can blend like that to allow someone to lean into and grab someone realistically would be a shit ton of work 

 

 

Meh.. Probably easier then adding new kill animations.  

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2 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

And if you lean forward to grab you add another 2 feet to it. And you end up with a 6 foot grab range.  Which is realistic.   (Im doing it right now, with a tape measure and my reach is 6 feet., standing still my reach is about 3.5 feet? Basically i double my range by stepping forward and leaning into it.

Please see my previous post to @Cannon007 the game currently doesnt support us having Jason lean forward to extend his range. Its not impossible to do but would be a lot of work.

1 minute ago, Cannon007 said:

Ok that’s fine but that’s the justification for Vader grab and I’m fine with it being a shorter grab distance but justify the force grab with the explanation you just gave

Not sure what you mean here? You mean the pop to Jason's hand? Thats because his logical range is greater than his physical hand length because if we set it to 4 ft it felt awful. We have to pop the counselor to Jason's hand.

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Just now, WashingtonJones said:

I didn't base it off of that video. I was pulling from memory.

But even with that video, that grab doesn't look stupid to you? 

The grab animation looks stupid.. The range looks fine.

 

I guess it depends on how you look at it.  Not for nothing but if wanted to grab someone i would not being grabbing people like Jason does.  Im not saying Jason needs to grab people like a NFL player.  But at least put a little effort into it,,,lol

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This is what his grab looks like now

Just now, HuDawg said:

The grab animation looks stupid.. The range looks fine.

The animation looks fine too. It's the fact that she teleports to his hand so far that looks bad.

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1 minute ago, WashingtonJones said:

This is what his grab looks like now

 

Thats painful to watch...lol

 

That grab animation..  LEAN FUCKIN FORWARD!!!    Step into it.  Act like you want to grab the person.  REEEEEEEEEEEEE!

 

Sorry had to let it out.

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1 minute ago, Gertz said:

Please see my previous post to @Cannon007 the game currently doesnt support us having Jason lean forward to extend his range. Its not impossible to do but would be a lot of work.

Not sure what you mean here? You mean the pop to Jason's hand? Thats because his logical range is greater than his physical hand length because if we set it to 4 ft it felt awful. We have to pop the counselor to Jason's hand.

You explained why there was the pop(Vader grab, force, etc). That’s a perfect justification of why that occurred to compensate for the lack of motion. So it compensates for what I was saying a 8ft tall person should be able to grab somebody 10-12 feet infront of them. 

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5 minutes ago, WashingtonJones said:

This is what his grab looks like now

The animation looks fine too. It's the fact that she teleports to his hand so far that looks bad.

 


That animation looks fine?  Thats how i grab the salt on the kitchen table.   Not how id grab someone i want to Murder.


If someone stole my wallet..  And i tried to grab him like that.. He'd get away.

 

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1 minute ago, Cannon007 said:

You explained why there was the pop(Vader grab, force, etc). That’s a perfect justification of why that occurred to compensate for the lack of motion. So it compensates for what I was saying a 8ft tall person should be able to grab somebody 10-12 feet infront of them. 

I think we are on the same page kind of...

Realistically yes, an 8 ft tall person should be able to lean forward and grab a person. However, sometimes realism isn't the most fun thing to do. When it was set this way we saw people with bad connections getting grabbed from 15 ft + away because on the host/server the player was close enough for the grab but on their client/screen they seemed to far away. We also had shift grab which was an unintended side effect and fairly toxic. We had to split the difference between realism and making sure that it was still somewhat fun to the largest group of players possible and that has to include people that may not have the best connections.

I think as we move closer to Dedicated Servers, region selecting, and even people playing custom matches with people now its not as big of an issue and we are still keeping an eye on it.

Thanks for the convo @HuDawg and @Cannon007, I need to head in and get this patch closer to you guys. Ill swing back later.

- Gertz

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3 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

That animation looks fine?  Thats how i grab the salt on the kitchen table.   Not how grab someone i want to Murder

First of all, you should be eating at the dining room table. 

But maybe you're right. He does have the step-forward animation for his melee. I'm trying to think if there's anything about a step-forward animation that would make grabbing a problem. 

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6 minutes ago, WashingtonJones said:

First of all, you should be eating at the dining room table. 

But maybe you're right. He does have the step-forward animation for his melee. I'm trying to think if there's anything about a step-forward animation that would make grabbing a problem. 

 

 Also.  When hes chasing someone and goes to grab them Jason slows down and then grabs.  .  When in reality if you are walking fast/jogging and you go to grab someone you actually get a slight burst of speed due to momentum shift at the start of the grab.  The slow down should happens after you grab or miss to regain balance.

I mean if you're running full speed and try to grab someone the recovery is even longer.. But at a nice job/fast walk its very quick recovery.

 

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1 minute ago, Gertz said:

I think we are on the same page kind of...

Realistically yes, an 8 ft tall person should be able to lean forward and grab a person. However, sometimes realism isn't the most fun thing to do. When it was set this way we saw people with bad connections getting grabbed from 15 ft + away because on the host/server the player was close enough for the grab but on their client/screen they seemed to far away. We also had shift grab which was an unintended side effect and fairly toxic. We had to split the difference between realism and making sure that it was still somewhat fun to the largest group of players possible and that has to include people that may not have the best connections.

I think as we move closer to Dedicated Servers, region selecting, and even people playing custom matches with people now its not as big of an issue and we are still keeping an eye on it.

Thanks for the convo @HuDawg and @Cannon007, I need to head in and get this patch closer to you guys. Ill swing back later.

- Gertz

We are on the same page. A video game can not be realistic and there does need to be balance of all factors. When people questioned the force grab it should have been explained the way you did. You also made it clear that you understand that the grab range shouldn’t be just his arm length. So I think the balance will end up well.

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Thank you for all of the input Gertz I’m excited to see the changes in the next patch. 

A question though, when you said shift grab was an unintended side effect did you mean the act of shift grabbing itself?-OR- were you referring to the use of shift to intiate a grab coupled with latency that was a problem? 

I just wanted to clarify whether the act of shift-grab was not meant to be a part of the game design as many players including myself use this mechanic. 

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23 minutes ago, Gertz said:

the game currently doesnt support us having Jason lean forward to extend his range.

His melee animation has him stepping forward. Would it be possible to add a similar step-forward animation for his grab? Or would that cause other problems?

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43 minutes ago, Gertz said:

We also had shift grab which was an unintended side effect and fairly toxic.

Shift Grab was an unintended side effect? If that was the case why not just remove the ability to grab out of Shift in the first place? Even delay on Grab afterwards? Surely something you guys would've known about well before release I imagine. Too late now for that sort of thing, just surprised by that part of the post.

EDIT: Something unrelated I'll just mention here since you've dropped in. Please remove the invisible window bubble during counselor climbing animation, as this is one of the most heavily requested changes and has not been acknowledged by any of the devs yet.

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1 hour ago, Gertz said:

Arm reach is generally half of your height, your arm span from finger tip to finger tip is roughly the same as your height. If we wanted to be realistic his reach should be 4 ft but that felt like shit. Add latency to that and the abuse of shift grab and we had to reduce it. Its not always about numbers, making things realistic in game generally doesn't equal fun. If it did we wouldnt play the game we would do the thing...except with killing people, you shouldn't ever kill people

- Gertz

It's a very cool of you to take the time to talk about the behind-the-scenes issues. That's the kind of transparency that is really needed for a game that has been so fundamentally broken since day one of it's official launch. You're too good for this shitty game, @Gertz If I were in your boots I would get out while the gettin's good. Word on the street is that Behaviour Interactive is looking to hire even more developers to create yet another Big Bad to add to the DbD roster. ;)

18qory.jpg

 

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2 hours ago, Gertz said:

I think we are on the same page kind of...

Realistically yes, an 8 ft tall person should be able to lean forward and grab a person. However, sometimes realism isn't the most fun thing to do. When it was set this way we saw people with bad connections getting grabbed from 15 ft + away because on the host/server the player was close enough for the grab but on their client/screen they seemed to far away. We also had shift grab which was an unintended side effect and fairly toxic. We had to split the difference between realism and making sure that it was still somewhat fun to the largest group of players possible and that has to include people that may not have the best connections.

I think as we move closer to Dedicated Servers, region selecting, and even people playing custom matches with people now its not as big of an issue and we are still keeping an eye on it.

Thanks for the convo @HuDawg and @Cannon007, I need to head in and get this patch closer to you guys. Ill swing back later.

- Gertz

Thanks for hanging out and chatting with us Gertz. We always appreciate the candor.

So off the topic of the game, do you know the upcoming child's sex yet? A name picked out? Did you get a work DND/Pathfinder game going or did that fizzle because you guys have been busy?

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2 hours ago, MrPyct said:

It's a very cool of you to take the time to talk about the behind-the-scenes issues. That's the kind of transparency that is really needed for a game that has been so fundamentally broken since day one of it's official launch. You're too good for this shitty game, @Gertz If I were in your boots I would get out while the gettin's good. Word on the street is that Behaviour Interactive is looking to hire even more developers to create yet another Big Bad to add to the DbD roster. ;)

18qory.jpg

 

Lol making Jason more of joke than he already is? Wow nice joke. At least Gun Media actually tries to care for their killer. Behavior almost always introduces at least two Survivor buffs when the Killers get something good.

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3 hours ago, Gertz said:

I think we are on the same page kind of...

Realistically yes, an 8 ft tall person should be able to lean forward and grab a person. However, sometimes realism isn't the most fun thing to do. When it was set this way we saw people with bad connections getting grabbed from 15 ft + away because on the host/server the player was close enough for the grab but on their client/screen they seemed to far away. We also had shift grab which was an unintended side effect and fairly toxic. We had to split the difference between realism and making sure that it was still somewhat fun to the largest group of players possible and that has to include people that may not have the best connections.

I think as we move closer to Dedicated Servers, region selecting, and even people playing custom matches with people now its not as big of an issue and we are still keeping an eye on it.

Thanks for the convo @HuDawg and @Cannon007, I need to head in and get this patch closer to you guys. Ill swing back later.

- Gertz

Naw man.. Thanks for jumping in and talking with us fans.

We only argue and complain because we love this game...lol.  

 

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2 hours ago, MrPyct said:

 You're too good for this shitty game, @Gertz If I were in your boots I would get out while the gettin's good. Word on the street is that Behaviour Interactive is looking to hire even more developers to create yet another Big Bad to add to the DbD roster. ;)

Ahh DBD.. The game where the trailers for their Big Bads on youtube  are the only thing fun about the game.  A game where the level designs look like something that someone created in GTA O creation mode.

Friday the 13th..  Looks better, plays betters, sounds better..  feels better..  Hell it probably tastes better too:wub:

 

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