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AldermachXI

The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

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So, first off, thank you to those who have greeted me on my return from a brief vacation. It's nice to know that my presence here matters to some.

In my time off, I tried to think of a way to come back and be more productive around here. But truthfully, I'm not sure there's anything I can say at this point that I haven't said (multiple times) before. I don't want to be overtly negative, since there's already plenty of that. Instead, I wanted to kind of sum up what this experience has been like from Day 1 (for me) up until now. So get comfortable, grab something to eat/drink. Because this might be a long one...

I decided to break down my experience into 3 categories, which i listed in the title. The Good. The Bad. And of course, the Ugly.

I'll start with The Good:

There's a lot about this game that I still enjoy, despite the long list of issues.

The top thing for me is the sound. The music and ambient sounds really ARE great. I still catch myself stopping and getting immersed in the sound every now and then. The menu music is so quintessentially "Friday the 13th", it's perfect. I love the ambient sounds when the map has loaded and you see the scoreboard - especially when you can hear the dock in the water (that's one of my favorite sounds in life). I think overall, the sound is one of the things we take for granted in this game.

This one might surprise some. But I also like the graphics and art style they decided to roll with. I'm sure some people would have preferred more photo realism and less of a "cartoony" look for the characters. But I personally love it. I think it's just right for a video game. I really like most, if not all, the character models. They nailed all the tropes pretty well.

Lastly, I think the concept is great. I know I just said this in an earlier thread, but I think the game's concept is near perfect, on paper. It's just the execution that leaves a lot to be desired. This little snippet of something @wes posted a long time ago always resonated with me:

"let's talk mechanics and level layouts. We built all the maps with pacing in mind. Think about a rubber band in your mind. Put the rubber band on your right-hand pointer finger, now stretch it over to your left-hand pointer finger. Now stretch it out as far as you can, then relax it back, bringing your fingers close together. Separate your fingers, bring them back close, back and forth. That's the mindset for pacing in our game. You are one finger, Jason is the other. The mechanics we create in the game become the rubber band. How fast can the counselor run? How fast can Jason run? How fast is Jason's cooldown for his abilities? What is the distance from one building to the next? All of these are considered in the mechanics of the game. Some games create tension by limiting resources (food, water, bullets) but we do it through how we built the entire game. The level layout, the characters, their abilities, etc. It all comes back to the rubber band.

This, to me, is exactly what the game should be. Unfortunately a lot of the changes that have come since launch make the above statement false. That's no longer how the game operates. Which segways us into...

The Bad:

This is where we get into what exactly went wrong.

I think, first and foremost, it's important to acknowledge the double-edged sword that was "getting the Friday the 13th license".

This was both a blessing and a curse for the dev team. It's very likely this game would still be in Early Access, going through the motions, if it wasn't for acquiring the F13 license. It could possibly be thriving on its own merit, or it could be dead and gone already...No one really knows what would have happened to it. But I do know for certain that getting the F13 license sky rocketed expectations. It put AAA expectations on the game and had an A (maybe) capable studio. That's a pretty scary thing, if you ask me.

I already mentioned the great concept the game has. It's a pretty simple concept, too. So it's especially disappointing that the dev team hasn't been able to deliver on this simple concept without a long list of bugs. I won't pretend to know how to develop a game. But I will say that I would focus on perfecting what's there before even attempting to add more.

That's where things went bad for this game. When they decided to keep piling on instead of fixing what was already there. New content does nothing if it can't be enjoyed properly.

The Ugly:

I'm gonna keep this section incredibly short because I don't think we need any more focus on the ugly aspects...But I will say this:

When bad things are left festering in a bad state, they turn ugly very quickly.

2+ Months without a patch to FIX things is a big problem. It compounds several issues, and being silent (or even acting upset) towards your fan base for expressing their displeasure will cause said ugliness to boil over. This is where we're at now.

I've been a gamer for 28 of my 32 years on this planet. I've never seen this much passion for a game. Ever. I've also never seen a dev team so stubborn.

Help us help you, Gun/Illfonic. Because at this rate, this story isn't gonna end happily for anyone involved.

 

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Idk what happened, why you were on "vacation", whether it was voluntary or involuntary, but I can say I do enjoy your posts.  I get the feeling you are much like myself in that you are straight shooter and simply tell it like it is.  I appreciate that.  This will probably be locked because, well everything that isn't praise around here gets locked.  So, I'll say thanks for this post and I agree with what you said.  

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Great post @AldermachXI

21 minutes ago, Maddogg_8121 said:

Idk what happened, why you were on "vacation", whether it was voluntary or involuntary, but I can say I do enjoy your posts.  I get the feeling you are much like myself in that you are straight shooter and simply tell it like it is.  I appreciate that.  This will probably be locked because, well everything that isn't praise around here gets locked.  So, I'll say thanks for this post and I agree with what you said.  

The more they try to silence criticism, the harder the critics will push. When they figure this out they'll be better for it.

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At this point,I'm done criticizing. I'm done bitching. What's the use? We keep hearing that they read everything,but nothing is being changed to reflect that. 

I'll be taking a voluntary vacation for a bit because everything feels like a waste of time. Be back soon™.

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3 minutes ago, thatdudescott said:

At this point,I'm done criticizing. I'm done bitching. What's the use? We keep hearing that they read everything,but nothing is being changed to reflect that. 

I'll be taking a voluntary vacation for a bit because everything feels like a waste of time. Be back soon™.

It is a waste of time. I feel like habit and the community is all that brings me back to the forum.

They read everything but apparently reading comprehension is a pretty big issue on their end.

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22 minutes ago, bewareofbears said:

It is a waste of time. I feel like habit and the community is all that brings me back to the forum.

They read everything but apparently reading comprehension is a pretty big issue on their end.

Eventually,everyone is going to flee this sinking (cruise) ship and the official forums is going to be nothing but new users registering to post about the same things that get us labeled as toxic. And there won't be any one to help the mods by pointing out the search function or flagging posts.

Well if being "toxic" is calling these guys out on their constant bullshit and never buying into the "indie dev,have patience" excuse from the beginning, (when it was clear this was the path we were heading down) I'm proud to be "O.G. toxic."

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lol I was hoping people might at least add what they like about the game to the conversation... :P

It is a shame that it seems to have turned into an "us against them" kinda thing. That should never be the case when everyone involved just wants the best for the subject at hand.

That's why I really think it comes down to Gun/Illfonic simply not having the resources to pull this off properly.

I think they're trying their best. But there's only so much they can accomplish in a month's time. Which is why I've always stressed the importance of getting patches/fixes right the first time around. There's very little room for error, as it'll cause obvious setbacks on all future fixes/content. It really doesn't help that they seem to prioritize content patches over bug fixes, either.

Well...I shouldn't say they prioritize them. But they insist on lumping it all into one patch, and that's a mistake, since new content usually means new bugs.

The health of the current content should be priority #1. Only add more when things are currently functional.

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I'll add what I currently like about the game.  The bots.  Fun as hell.  The social aspect of private matches.  That's it.  The rest is a mess.  Actually, to be honest, it is an underwhelming let down as far as game play goes.  Not what I was hoping for.  The multi player portion used to he fun, but it just isn't anymore. 

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15 minutes ago, AldermachXI said:

lol I was hoping people might at least add what they like about the game to the conversation... :P

Through this game,I made friends with some great people on Steam. And on the rare nights when we are all together,even the bugs and glitches can't ruin our fun.

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If you want me to post what is good about the game ... we'd have to go back to before they tried to "balance" a 7 vs 1 game by giving MORE to the 7 and taking away from the 1.

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9 minutes ago, Maddogg_8121 said:

I'll add what I currently like about the game.  The bots.  Fun as hell.  The social aspect of private matches.  That's it.  The rest is a mess.  Actually, to be honest, it is an underwhelming let down as far as game play goes.  Not what I was hoping for.  The multi player portion used to he fun, but it just isn't anymore. 

I feel like I must be alone on this, because everyone else seems to like the bots, but I think they're completely useless. The only appeal I can see is knowing you'll get to be Jason. But I see zero thrill in performing the same kills I've seen hundreds of times on brain dead bots.

Maybe once they patch and improve the bot AI to a point where it's not laughable, I'll see more reason.

But as of now, I think it's extremely pointless and I'm pretty pissed important fixes had to go on the back burner so they could release that and VC 2.0

Health of the main game - the multiplayer - needs to be the top priority.

It's gonna be REALLY interesting to see what comes in this next patch. It's been a long time since we've seen a patch release without any new content tacked on. I'm hoping it's what they need in order to actually get fixes done. Time will tell...

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9 minutes ago, AldermachXI said:

I feel like I must be alone on this, because everyone else seems to like the bots, but I think they're completely useless. The only appeal I can see is knowing you'll get to be Jason. But I see zero thrill in performing the same kills I've seen hundreds of times on brain dead bots.

Maybe once they patch and improve the bot AI to a point where it's not laughable, I'll see more reason.

But as of now, I think it's extremely pointless and I'm pretty pissed important fixes had to go on the back burner so they could release that and VC 2.0

Health of the main game - the multiplayer - needs to be the top priority.

It's gonna be REALLY interesting to see what comes in this next patch. It's been a long time since we've seen a patch release without any new content tacked on. I'm hoping it's what they need in order to actually get fixes done. Time will tell...

You have to keep in mind that being Jason for some of us isn't easy.  I'd much rather play against brain dead bots than go against the judgement of others in quick play or embarrass myself in private matches with extremely great counselors and feel like shit about not living up to the Jason expectations.  I'm not afraid to admit that my skill level is mid range at best.  I'm not a gamer, never have been a gamer, and will never be a gamer.  I didn't play a shit load of games growing up.  And when I did they were turn based RPGs (final fantasy) and Zelda.  That's about it really.  So, the bots are perfect, stress free Jason playing for some of us.  

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4 minutes ago, Maddogg_8121 said:

You have to keep in mind that being Jason for some of us isn't easy.  I'd much rather play against brain dead bots than go against the judgement of others in quick play or embarrass myself in private matches with extremely great counselors and feel like shit about not living up to the Jason expectations.  I'm not afraid to admit that my skill level is mid range at best.  I'm not a gamer, never have been a gamer, and will never be a gamer.  I didn't play a shit load of games growing up.  And when I did they were turn based RPGs (final fantasy) and Zelda.  That's about it really.  So, the bots are perfect, stress free Jason playing for some of us.  

I get that. I should consider that a bit more. It's a shame people are made to feel like shit if they have a bad Jason round. I've made jokes. But all in good fun...I'd never actually rip on someone for being bad at Jason. We all had to start somewhere.

The only people I tear into while gaming are cheaters/exploiters. Especially the ones who troll while they're doing it. People like that make me madbro.

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8 minutes ago, Maddogg_8121 said:

You have to keep in mind that being Jason for some of us isn't easy.  I'd much rather play against brain dead bots than go against the judgement of others in quick play or embarrass myself in private matches with extremely great counselors and feel like shit about not living up to the Jason expectations.  I'm not afraid to admit that my skill level is mid range at best.  I'm not a gamer, never have been a gamer, and will never be a gamer.  I didn't play a shit load of games growing up.  And when I did they were turn based RPGs (final fantasy) and Zelda.  That's about it really.  So, the bots are perfect, stress free Jason playing for some of us.  

I hear ya. There's nothing like having a frustrating round as Jason,and being up against a squad of mouthy counselors who add their own mean spirited commentary.

Jason gets knocked down with a wrench,counselor makes snoring noises. Mess up a shift grab, "2 EZ git gud." etc.

 

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Exactly.  I'm lvl 150 and probably have less than 200 matches as Jason just because I'd rather not deal with the bullshit.  Especially in his current state.  If I want bullshit, I'll just go to work.  If I ever give a Jason a hard time as a counselor as far as evading, I give encouragement afterwards.  I never tell anyone they suck or aren't any good, etc.  

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1 hour ago, dmack621 said:

If you want me to post what is good about the game ... we'd have to go back to before they tried to "balance" a 7 vs 1 game by giving MORE to the 7 and taking away from the 1.

October 25th. The Fox / Jason Nerf patch.

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I still love this game. 

#1 The late 70s early 80s setting is ripped right out of the first four films. 

#2 The Jason models are impressive. The Councilor models and tropes are also very late 70s and early 80s. 

#3 Great music. Even the eight bit Jason theme is spooky. 

#4 Addictive gameplay. Really awesome kill animations. 

Friday the 13th the game is my favorite of 2017.

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34 minutes ago, Alien_Number_Six said:

I still love this game. 

#1 The late 70s early 80s setting is ripped right out of the first four films. 

#2 The Jason models are impressive. The Councilor models and tropes are also very late 70s and early 80s. 

#3 Great music. Even the eight bit Jason theme is spooky. 

#4 Addictive gameplay. Really awesome kill animations. 

Friday the 13th the game is my favorite of 2017.

Agreed on all points.

Although I think the addictive aspect of the gameplay for me is the teamwork. The "how are we gonna get out of this?". The novelty of the kills wore off pretty quick for me.

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I actually love this game despite its many faults and the less fun toxic element of the player base which I actually find small and avoidable. I want to focus on what can make things better rather than all the negatives. Here are some things I think would help and probably has been mentioned by others but It's my opinons on making things better.

Surviving Jason should heel like you survived. It should be hard, dangerous, and killing Jason should not be the immediate objective. The conversations after a match should be oh my god I can't believe I made it. 

It's not like that at all.

As Jason I don't care about all the perks, knives, guns, and health sprays. I want you to have all of that maybe more options. I play Jason I want a hunt  I don't want easy kills but I also what a Jason experiance a killing machine that you need teamwork, luck, and Skill to escape from. I say keep the counslers and the item drops the exact same as they are as I feel the counslers are right where they need to be. Jason needs to be brought up to scary again fix the grab, fix this stunning BS, give him more traps or let him refill them. let Jason move parts, not remove them but move them around. some people don't like it but make Jason supernatural because he is no matter how you cut it so embrace that. Up his speed and strength slightly across all jasons. 

For counslers add more ways to kill Jason not easy ways but Tommy being the only way is stupid and not supported by the movie cannon at all.  Add enviromental jason kills that counslers have to figure out how to use.  As I said leave the drops , knives,ect. excatly where they are.  I like the counslers having a high degree of hope and certain advantages. Makes me a better hunter . add a motorcycle and a swim to safty spot (good luck) random police bots could also be good as support for counslers and more kill opertunities for Jason. 

I think these are ways to make a good game a great game.

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6 hours ago, TiffanyCox said:

@AldermachXI

Spot on. But all i thought about while reading this was of course...

the good the bad and the ugly GIF

Ummm i'm telling the teacher, oh wait that's you that tattles. BTW I for 3  (inside joke about a locked post) think you shouldn't be a "teachers pet" and act as a wanna be mod by telling ppl to search. Sickening IMO.  Thank You.

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5 hours ago, bewareofbears said:

@AldermachXI

Finding anything good about the game is fairly difficult for me lately.

This game is like wax fruit- looks great but tastes like shit. :)

I am only still playing this game because I've found a group of people to play with, and we try to have fun with it. Quick Play has been (and still is) a cesspit of match quitters, trolls, exploiters, and griefers. Offline Bots are amusing (they've done some funny things), but are about as challenging as fighting a wet paper bag. If it weren't for the community of dedicated players, I wouldn't be playing this buggy, half-assed game anymore. 

I had high hopes. But it has been a continual string of disappointment since launch. I agree with the notion that 60+ without a patch is inexcusable, but when you combine that with the fact that they seem to have so much trouble rolling out patches (ie, getting approval across the various platforms), I can understand why they try to "save up" fixes.

I do like the look and feel of this game. Well, I liked the look and feel of this game. I feel it has taken on too much campiness, particularly with the costumes and emotes, but Devs gotta eat, so I could live with that. But it seems like more and more of the game is breaking. I won't waste time with a bulleted list; I'm sure the development team has already gotten more than one earful about every problem that exists. 

Bottom line: I'm not really angry, just disappointed. I've played enough of this game to say I got my money's worth. And there are times when this game has given me the singular joy that you can only get from an awesome session of gaming. But, overall, playing this game feels like a chore, and I wouldn't do it without the community of dedicated players.

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The Good:

The concepts of Jason's in-game abilities. The graphics and sound design (barring a couple little sound tweaks). Kane doing the mo-caps. The gambling feel of the Jason selection process. Playing with good people that know what they're doing.

The Bots. Now...I'm good with Jason online, and comparing myself to videos of people that most other people call good, I seem pretty up there. But I was generally never into playing games online. The only games I liked to play was Call of Duty (mostly Zombies) and Mario Kart 8 (but barely). I know the Bots are not nearly as challenging as decent players (and I do want them to be very challenging) but they feel like the right, familiar gaming experience for me. Online is very exciting and can be tremendous fun, but most of the time I lose the vibe that I always dreamed a game like this should have.  It becomes something else, online, for more reasons than one. 

 The Bad:

The current balance issues that distort the concept of Jason out of shape; which is at least half the reason that I lose the vibe I'm looking for. The glitches and technical oversights, but mostly those that people can use as exploits. 

The Ugly:

The assholes of the player-base. That for me is the dominant vibe killer. It's unavoidable though. I'm an asshole from time to time myself, so I can't really point fingers. But I know I wouldn't have those moments if it weren't for the knuckleheads that don't know when to stop, but I unfortunately let it get to me too much.
And finally for the Ugly; the cluster-fuck that the relationship between the community and the dev team has become. Hopefully enough, from both sides, will help turn that around.

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I have no problem with positivity and I think a little positivity should be allowed from time to time.

For example. The twitter account shining light on fan made creations and cosplays...

The problem?...

The game has a plethora of problems and Jason isn't even the most liked aspect of the game anymore.

And what are they posting about?

Cosplays and fan creations across social media.

Again...I do think its ok to be positive, but the slant towards that kind of stuff over anything else tells me all I need to know.

Content and fan pandering are what this game is all about right now.

But to answer the question.

The Good

Mostly faithful recreation of the film locations, models, tropes, etc.

The Bad

Catering to the side that definitely didn't win out most in the films...the counselors

The Ugly

For every step forward...they take several steps back and at this point...it could be argued ONLY steps back

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