Jason Is Made For Beating

[DasMurich 365]

Let's pretend there's some form of "balance" coming to the game. Maybe in a month. Maybe in three months. Who knows, let's just pretend it's coming. I've been playing lately with fresh eyes, as Jason, and he's fucked. Sorry. This has to do directly with him being stunned. 

Jason chops a door - stunned.

Jason grabs a knife - stunned.

Jason grabs a driver - stunned.

Jason walks through a wall - stunned.

Jason picks up a counselor - stunned.

Jason lands a swing - stunned.*

Jason misses a grab - stunned.

Jason blocks - stunned.

Jason smashes the power - stunned.

Every animation that Jason has leaves him open to being hit, including being hit. Every. Fucking. One. His animations are lengthy, slow, and have these micro-windows once they've finished where he's open.

Ah, the * up there. When Jason brings his axe down on a counselor and strikes them successfully they can immediately swing back and lay him out. J3 drops a heavy, bladed weapon in to the shoulder of a girl, half his size, dressed like Wonder Woman, and she instantly retaliates with a wrench and he is down for the count. His attack against her does nothing. Why isn't she stunned???

So how can they they fix this? Can they fix this? And I'm not asking for off-the-wall suggestions but really asking how can this be done or addressed without any drastic measures? Do you even think it's an issue that everything he does leaves him open to attack? 

Personally, I think this is one of the huge factors in the this-can't-be-salvaged area. I don't think it'll be addressed. 

[Gacys Clown 33]

1 hour ago, DasMurich said:

J3 drops a heavy, bladed weapon in to the shoulder of a girl, half his size, dressed like Wonder Woman, and she instantly retaliates with a wrench and he is down for the count. His attack against her does nothing. Why isn't she stunned???

 

Because she's Wonder Woman...

[Maddogg_8121 906]

Stun "chances" should be reduced significantly.   

[Tommy86 1,177]

3 hours ago, DasMurich said:

Ah, the * up there. When Jason brings his axe down on a counselor and strikes them successfully they can immediately swing back and lay him out. J3 drops a heavy, bladed weapon in to the shoulder of a girl, half his size, dressed like Wonder Woman, and she instantly retaliates with a wrench and he is down for the count. His attack against her does nothing. Why isn't she stunned???

Good to see other people have noticed. I've been talking about this for a while / arguing with the slasher crowd. The only way Jason can land a safe hit on a counselor (no guaranteed counterhit) is to bait them and punish on whiff. Otherwise he is always vulnerable to a stun if he commits first, whether he hits the counselor or the counselor blocks. That's another one you can add to the list. 

Counselors have no delay on attack after being hit or blocking, but Jason does and can be attacked immediately in either case during recovery on swing. There is zero you can do about it, you are physically unable to block or evade in time. So baiting and punishing is the only way you can get away with slashing without getting stunned. Counselor must complete swinging animation to be vulnerable, as even interrupting the start of a swing will allow them to counterhit.

What the stun mechanic affects most: Weighing up all the situations in which Jason is most vulnerable to stuns, the #1 situation IMO is when contesting the car. Group combat on its own is a challenge, but when you have a car to prevent getting started, it gets a lot harder.

There's only 2 ways to stop a car from moving, the first by pulling the driver out (stun) and the second is by slamming the hood (stun). You can stop a moving car by shifting behind it, but not before it starts since it would require the driver to reverse into you (which they won't). So as long as you have an armed group surrounding you, and someone starting the car, your only options are to stop it and likely get stunned each time, or let it get away. Neither option is good.

This will go on until all weapons are broken / used up, and to even get the opportunity to stop the car, you must fend off counselors without getting stunned in the first place. Even more difficult now with 4 or 5 shotguns in a match. I've faced 4 shotguns myself in this situation along with an arsenal of bats.

[WashingtonJones 1,063]

3 hours ago, DasMurich said:

Let's pretend there's some form of "balance" coming to the game. Maybe in a.............................

This topic has been discussed in a very similar fashion, throughout multiple threads, since the October patch and beyond. Please use the search.

With that said, I highly recommend bots. Play them enough and you will realize they are capable of giving a decent challenge. Compared to multiplayer, they're way more stable and consistent, on average, especially when you factor in host migration, quitting hosts, people who quit that don't get Jason, etc. They don't troll you, but sometimes I get a little suspicious by their actions. They don't yell annoying shit at you nonstop. On multiplayer, most of the time I'm not very worried as Jason. With bots I am always (at least) a little worried. 

Multiplayer, at its best, will always be better, but "its best" is so few and far between for a lot of people. 

If you like playing as Jason, you'll like playing these bots. 

And you can get lots of XP, more consistently. 

[Tommy86 1,177]

4 minutes ago, WashingtonJones said:

With that said, I highly recommend bots. Play them enough and you will realize they are capable of giving a decent challenge.

You must be joking. Bots are no challenge whatsoever. I've gone 8/8 without even allowing myself to walk or run as Jason. 

[WashingtonJones 1,063]

32 minutes ago, Tommy86 said:

You must be joking.

Not at all. 

34 minutes ago, Tommy86 said:

Bots are no challenge whatsoever. I've gone 8/8 without even allowing myself to walk or run as Jason. 

That's not true and that won't always be the case. You have to play them more than a couple of times.

I can be Jason 4 or 5 times in multiplayer and have less of a challenge than from the bots. Good players in QP aren't in abundance. 

[Tommy86 1,177]

13 minutes ago, WashingtonJones said:

That's not true and that won't always be the case. You have to play them more than a couple of times.

I can be Jason 4 or 5 times in multiplayer and have less of a challenge than from the bots. Good players in QP aren't in abundance. 

What's not true? Here you go -

F13 - Can't Walk + Jailer Jason vs Bots

You can be certain I've played them more than a couple of times. I've tried out all the difficulties, on all the maps, with all the Jasons many times over for example. Making up silly games / challenges to amuse myself. You can do whatever you like and wipe them out every time.

Good players in QP may not be in abundance but even beginners are still better than the bots in any case.

[WashingtonJones 1,063]

I just easily went 8/8 with J7 in multiplayer.

Of course I played differently, mostly not indulging in environmentals and slashing a little more. Bots have actually taught me to slash more effectively. 

[Tommy86 1,177]

5 minutes ago, WashingtonJones said:

I just easily went 8/8 with J7 in multiplayer.

I don't doubt it, but I bet those counselors weren't stuck running into tables, or hiding directly in front of you, going for a casual swim with you, or waiting in the car instead of actually driving it anywhere. Just a few examples of what bots do on a regular basis.

[WashingtonJones 1,063]

I'm gonna record some bot rounds and post them. I've gotten 3 rounds in a row where I had to do a lot of work to keep objectives from being completed. Today Tommy escaped by the cops, and I always play hard against them, so this was a legit escape.

There's a good amount of times they won't hide. I'll break a door down, walk in and they'll fake me out and stun me. I play them a lot, mind you, so I get to see a lot of different variables at work.

Mitch called the cops btw.

[pApA^LeGBa 273]

2 hours ago, WashingtonJones said:

This topic has been discussed in a very similar fashion, throughout multiple threads, since the October patch and beyond. Please use the search.

With that said, I highly recommend bots. Play them enough and you will realize they are capable of giving a decent challenge. Compared to multiplayer, they're way more stable and consistent, on average, especially when you factor in host migration, quitting hosts, people who quit that don't get Jason, etc. They don't troll you, but sometimes I get a little suspicious by their actions. They don't yell annoying shit at you nonstop. On multiplayer, most of the time I'm not very worried as Jason. With bots I am always (at least) a little worried. 

Multiplayer, at its best, will always be better, but "its best" is so few and far between for a lot of people. 

If you like playing as Jason, you'll like playing these bots. 

And you can get lots of XP, more consistently. 

dude what? they have the same pathes all the time. they get stuck everywhere. they hide like crazy even when you can see them. they go for a swim. the run back into your arms because they dropped their weapon (wich would be a good move, but not if they wait until i can move again when knifed), they hop in a window when you are after them. just to hop back out in your arms again.

calling the cops is useless if no one even attempts to go there. i wanted to know if they dare if i just stand around in the middle of the map. they didn´t. 5 matches. only once tommy went there.

challenge? not the slightest. not even if i do nothing for 2 mins at start it gets challenging. and i played a lot with bots. all the 50 new levels.

there is nothing to sugarcoat here. if you have a bit of experience the bots just suck.

[GeneiJin 549]

Combat stance is Jason's Friend.  If you're tired of getting stunned breaking doors down, combat stance it and slash it down.  You can still be stunned from a stubborn consoler, but its not free and you can space yourself in a manner that is harder to hit from.  Even late game when Rage is unlocked, consider slashing the door instead if you believe the player will challenge you. 

[Alcanx 224]

31 minutes ago, GeneiJin said:

Combat stance is Jason's Friend.  If you're tired of getting stunned breaking doors down, combat stance it and slash it down.  You can still be stunned from a stubborn consoler, but its not free and you can space yourself in a manner that is harder to hit from.  Even late game when Rage is unlocked, consider slashing the door instead if you believe the player will challenge you. 

You can still be stunned in combat stance, even when blocking.

[GeneiJin 549]

Is that a bug or intended?  I understand that if you accumulated enough damage when blocking, then you'll get stunned as the mask drops.

[PowellCampsNAKED 736]

4 hours ago, WashingtonJones said:

This topic has been discussed in a very similar fashion, throughout multiple threads, since the October patch and beyond. Please use the search.

With that said, I highly recommend bots. Play them enough and you will realize they are capable of giving a decent challenge. Compared to multiplayer, they're way more stable and consistent, on average, especially when you factor in host migration, quitting hosts, people who quit that don't get Jason, etc. They don't troll you, but sometimes I get a little suspicious by their actions. They don't yell annoying shit at you nonstop. On multiplayer, most of the time I'm not very worried as Jason. With bots I am always (at least) a little worried. 

Multiplayer, at its best, will always be better, but "its best" is so few and far between for a lot of people. 

If you like playing as Jason, you'll like playing these bots. 

And you can get lots of XP, more consistently. 

Dude no offense but he wasn't saying he is inexperienced he was stating facts about Jason's frustrating stuns that don't make sense! 

[WashingtonJones 1,063]

I know, but I was imaging this would've been locked for being repetitive. 

[Havince 17]

am i the only one who thinks the game would be balanced if

1. they reduced items

2. reduced the stun from weapons

and also gave jason a stamina bar to even it out, enda day he still has shift even with stamina if he had it

[WashingtonJones 1,063]

11 minutes ago, Havince said:

am i the only one who thinks the game would be balanced if

1. they reduced items

2. reduced the stun from weapons

I think you might be the first one to say that. 

11 minutes ago, Havince said:

and also gave jason a stamina bar to even it out, enda day he still has shift even with stamina if he had it

[Havince 17]

i do think a jason stamina bar would make it better if there was less items, it would add a more strategic element to the game

[DasMurich 365]

6 hours ago, WashingtonJones said:

This topic has been discussed in a very similar fashion, throughout multiple threads, since the October patch and beyond. Please use the search.

Apologies. I figured since this directly related to the supposed upcoming patch and how Jason has actually been designed, animated, and so on that I'd bring it up. Being that I honestly do not see how this can be fixed because it extends beyond adjusting a %.

For example let's say Thick Skinned gets adjusted so the maximum damage reduction is adjusted to 10%. This will have zero effect controlling a counselor. It's just a number in the background.

Now lets say Jason's total stun time is reduced from 7 seconds to 5 seconds, from contact to back in the game. He still goes in to an animation sequence that forces the camera to stay in a fixed location until he stands up and gets back in to ready position. Once that cycle is complete, you can play again.

This is the case over and over and over. He's sluggish, cumbersome, and constantly open to being stunned by design. Because this is all built in to the cinematic approach to everything Jason does, he's basically fucked. 

My point, then, is I do not believe they will balance the game.

And currently I'm level 138 with over 500 hours. 

[Tommy86 1,177]

5 hours ago, WashingtonJones said:

I'm gonna record some bot rounds and post them. I've gotten 3 rounds in a row where I had to do a lot of work to keep objectives from being completed. Today Tommy escaped by the cops, and I always play hard against them, so this was a legit escape.

Please do, because I find it hard to believe. Honestly, bots shouldn't be giving you any kind of hard time in the state they're in (on any difficulty, same problems in each one).

5 hours ago, WashingtonJones said:

There's a good amount of times they won't hide. I'll break a door down, walk in and they'll fake me out and stun me. I play them a lot, mind you, so I get to see a lot of different variables at work.

More often than not, I have bots jumping out of the cabin into me before I even break the door down. Their attacks are also extremely predictable, and they can't even aim projectiles much of the time.  

5 hours ago, WashingtonJones said:

Mitch called the cops btw.

I let Mitch call the cops too. But instead of running to the exit, he ran to my shack. I've let bots do whatever they like so many times, and I've yet to see them even escape in a car. They either constantly crash, or don't even drive the car at all. 

[Charlie Chainsaw 690]

The ONLY melee hit that stuns Jason should be the one that removes his mask. Period! Only firecrackers, flare gun, and shotguns should stun him. 

[Aaron 52]

http://forum.f13game.com/topic/5806-feedback-that-you-will-realize-was-all-true-in-2-4-months/

 

[SteveChristy 252]

9 hours ago, GeneiJin said:

Combat stance is Jason's Friend.  If you're tired of getting stunned breaking doors down, combat stance it and slash it down.  You can still be stunned from a stubborn consoler, but its not free and you can space yourself in a manner that is harder to hit from.  Even late game when Rage is unlocked, consider slashing the door instead if you believe the player will challenge you. 

This works for me almost every single time. While you can still be stunned, proper spacing and timing your swings can easily avoid it. Sometimes I feint them as well. I'll intentionally back up a bit further and swing, knowing I won't hit the door, but the overzealous counselor will still try to hit me and miss, leaving the door (and them) open for another hack. Those players almost always abandon the magic door-stun strategy when they encounter this against a high destruction Jason.