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Crazy Ralph's Doomsday Emporium

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2 hours ago, Official_Adam_W said:

Reality is, if Randy wants to see how the game is for everyone else, he needs to play nothing but QP matches so he can encounter the host quits, lost connections, teabaggers, Jason's Nerfs, getting knifed in the neck umpteen times, getting chain stunned and danced around. Maybe then he will understand

That's probably why he doesn't do it.

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1 hour ago, Loading said:

Yup. I knew I wasn't dreaming when I got 8 pocket knives stuck in my neck. 

The 11 med sprays is over the top. Think about how many people run medic to double its size and dont forget thick skin. Then you have hypochondriac where each counselor can start with a med spray. Lol. This is why trap stacking for Jason needs to come back. They are worthless at protecting objectives. Everyone tanks them no problem and save all those pocket knives for their free getaways. 5 shotguns? My goodness.

 

Even the bots fucking tank traps. BOTS! I hardly EVER see a bot using a knife to disable a trap.

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5 minutes ago, undrtkr said:

Even the bots fucking tank traps. BOTS! I hardly EVER see a bot using a knife to disable a trap.

Nope they tank em'. They may not be programmed to do it, but hell, they are still playing the metagame. 😄

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SMH. Thank you everyone for the receipts. I was chosen to be Jason yesterday even when my preference was counselor and I just rolled my eyes and walked around busting down doors and cutting the power, I then went to the dock by Higgins and just stood there staring out into the water with Stalk on indefinitely while I made a sandwich and used the bathroom. 

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36 minutes ago, BeautyNumber2 said:

SMH. Thank you everyone for the receipts. I was chosen to be Jason yesterday even when my preference was counselor and I just rolled my eyes and walked around busting down doors and cutting the power, I then went to the dock by Higgins and just stood there staring out into the water with Stalk on indefinitely while I made a sandwich and used the bathroom. 

Jason loves long lonely walks on the beach, PB&J sammies, and quiet evenings home with family.....😆

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Just because info is known does not mean you can go blurting it out. Special precautions are taken as not to give dates that are not concrete. 

Transparency here is fine if you peruse other gaming communities in the AAA realm the Devs will not even talk to you. You can scream, yell and stomp.your feet they will just ignore you and just comment on things that are not of a question. The fact is whether you like the answers your receive or not the fact is you are receiving interactions. 

Quite a few on this forum are pretty toxic and they continuously tag everyone on the Dev team in hopes of coercing an answer out of someone and that just isn't going to get it done and when they do pop in the flow of negative remarks by those choice users are not in short supply. 

Prior to what people cite as "locking the doors of the office" is in fact due to the amount of rage that follows should a loose estimate be given and it is not completed in that time frame. There was an honest attempt to share cool things in the pipeline and the amount of people rageing is not worth saying anything unless it is concrete To cite a few examples paranoia, dedicated servers ect. These were things to give a view on what was being worked on and quite frequently demands are made for updates on these items. I can understand that everyone wants to know and maybe it's just because you are excited that's fine but this is exactly why major game companies ignore most until they have news to share it's not because those companies don't know they just know their audience lacks patience. A testament to this is literally all over the forums. 

You can't say you would like one thing and then complain when that practice is stopped. Every effort is made to.guve details where they can be shared it's just  not up to par with some people's individual time tables.

Also another note which has been an issue lately, I can understand and sympathize with some of the concerns around the forums however it does not give anyone a free pass to hurl insults and antagonize anyone here. Creating a constructive dialogue goes a long way verses snarky comments and insults. Just some food for thought. 

 

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1 hour ago, Alkavian said:

Honestly, trap stacking wouldn't even help at half that spawn count of Med Sprays. The Medic perk spam + Thick Skinned would null the traps. That was happening even before they raised the defensive item spawn counts. 💔

Medic+Hypochondriac+Thick Skinned = Traps Defunct, no need to waste that pocket knife.

Back then nobody was willing to put the fuse in when they saw 3 to 5 traps laying there. It was a strong deterrent since they will be chainstun to death at every attempt. This was when P2 Jason was top tier because he had almost no reason to guard it.

If they keep the number of items the way it is right now and raise Jasons trap counts and bring back stacking its one way to getting him back on track and making counselors think twice on stepping into them.

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29 minutes ago, Loading said:

Back then nobody was willing to put the fuse in when they saw 3 to 5 traps laying there. It was a strong deterrent since they will be chainstun to death at every attempt. This was when P2 Jason was top tier because he had almost no reason to guard it.

If they keep the number of items the way it is right now and raise Jasons trap counts and bring back stacking its one way to getting him back on track and making counselors think twice on stepping into them.

This treats the symptoms of the problem, but not the cause of it unfortunately.😞

Pre-patch I'd tank J2's traps all day with no issues. His bad Morph recharge + team coordination + perks made his trap advantage more than manageable.

Trap stacking was unintentional to begin with, but it masked problems with game design. The same holds true for the pre-Nerf grab range. It hid the bad melee hit detection because most people went for the grab and cool mocap kills. Plentiful pocket knives and reduced grab effectiveness brought out the slashing meta we have now...and people complain they have a hard time hitting counselors. The underlying issues have been there from early on. We are just forced to see them as the Devs fiddle around with the game and make adjustments.

I'm sincerely not crapping on your idea, I just think we need to look deeper and find the root causes rather than knee jerking at the effects we are seeing.

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10 minutes ago, Alkavian said:

The same holds true for the pre-Nerf grab range. It hid the bad melee hit detection because most people went for the grab and cool mocap kills. Plentiful pocket knives and reduced grab effectiveness brought out the slashing meta we have now...and people complain they have a hard time hitting counselors. The underlying issues have been there from early on. We are just forced to see them as the Devs fiddle around with the game and make adjustments.

:sadchappa:100% truth here.

Hopefully this next set of "adjustments" helps without creating new problems..

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1 hour ago, JPops said:

There was an honest attempt to share cool things in the pipeline and the amount of people rageing is not worth saying anything unless it is concrete To cite a few examples paranoia, dedicated servers ect. These were things to give a view on what was being worked on and quite frequently demands are made for updates on these items.

Let me give you a reason why that is, regarding one of those examples -

"We don’t have a set date at this time. We are aiming for late-September, but it is not out of the question that it might take more time and could go into October before we release. There has to be an audit that ensures things run properly on consoles and that is a process that takes time.

TL;DR - Host migration bad, Dedicated Servers Good. Give us a couple months."

Dedicated Servers Update

That was posted in August, and it is now January. No wonder demands are frequently being made, because there has been no solid update I'm aware of since then. I think everyone has been more than patient given the circumstances. I get that NDAs are a factor, but would it be criminal to offer any kind of explanation on the matter? Other than "we're working on it"?

I get what you're saying, some people are unreasonable / hostile on the topic of content or patches, but the longer this gets drawn out, the worse it's going to get. Players making demands isn't the worst of it, it's when players stop making demands because they've quit and moved on.

Negative opinion isn't limited to this forum either, on any topic. Look on Reddit, Discord, Twitter etc. and you will see the same complaints being brought up whether in regards to balance, bugs or content. They are community-wide and echoed by majority of the playerbase. Gun/Illfonic have some big problems to resolve if they want to salvage this game and their reputation.

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Wow, did not expect so many responses on this topic. And, so many of shock. I thought most knew of how unbalanced item spawns were but I think actually seeing it, rather than being told or just playing and thinking geez there's a lot of items, really threw it into perspective for some. Hopefully, the upcoming patch tempers the ridiculous number of items and makes Jason the beast he is supposed to be.

As @Alkavian said we would like to not have to restart this thread because there is further testing that could be done on this topic. One thing we our interested in is if number of players affects the number of items in game. We only ran a few matches with 2 or 3 counselors and found all those items. Which is kind of shocking but if it increases with more counselors it would be truly horrendous. I believe that the number of items is not based on number of players but we will see.

3 hours ago, bewareofbears said:

As I said, they (and you) choose how you define yourselves- not how we're defined.

kHhhE2z.png

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I'm not going to say that the new inventory count is A-OK. Community Administration has acknowledged that there is too much, and that the balance for Jason "isn't great". That would lead me to believe that this will be adjusted in the future. My suggestion would be to use this knowledge to change up our Jason game, in the interim. I was recently reminded that an immobile Jason can hold stalk for up to 3 minutes. I have been testing weaponization of this in publics by quietly camping a key objective, letting traps act as an item absorber, rather than an actual trap. It's not the entire puzzle, but it is an interesting piece of it for me. I'm getting more jumpscare opportunities with this approach, for sure.

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37 minutes ago, NthnButAGoodTime said:

I'm not going to say that the new inventory count is A-OK. Community Administration has acknowledged that there is too much, and that the balance for Jason "isn't great". That would lead me to believe that this will be adjusted in the future. My suggestion would be to use this knowledge to change up our Jason game, in the interim. I was recently reminded that an immobile Jason can hold stalk for up to 3 minutes. I have been testing weaponization of this in publics by quietly camping a key objective, letting traps act as an item absorber, rather than an actual trap. It's not the entire puzzle, but it is an interesting piece of it for me. I'm getting more jumpscare opportunities with this approach, for sure.

I think a lot of people have changed their Jasom strategies as a relief to this symptom. Hence why see so many slashers now.

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1 hour ago, NthnButAGoodTime said:

I was recently reminded that an immobile Jason can hold stalk for up to 3 minutes. I have been testing weaponization of this in publics by quietly camping a key objective, letting traps act as an item absorber, rather than an actual trap. It's not the entire puzzle, but it is an interesting piece of it for me. I'm getting more jumpscare opportunities with this approach, for sure.

I'm always interested in new strategy, but the problem I see with this is what happens after Stalk.

Using traps as item absorbers is no different to using them as objective defence, it's the same thing just a different way of thinking about it. Counselors still have knives and sprays after interacting with traps in a typical match, and the reason why is because traps are more commonly tanked and everyone's running Medic. Not to mention the abundance of sprays to begin with.

The amount of items on the map now means you're likely to eat a knife grabbing out of Stalk, which makes all that time spent camping (potentially 3 mins) for nothing. It's a pretty big gamble, and gives every counselor in the match time to do whatever they like eg. find parts, more items and weapons without any resistance.

I do love Stalk but the main purpose I use it for is to counter cabin looping. The scrambling effect makes counselors think you used Shift or Morph, and they'll do things like jump back in the cabin you never actually left. If not, then at least I only gambled a short amount of time on it. Camping can work in certain situations, but I would be wary of relying on it.

EDIT: One other thing working against Stalk is that Jason is now easily identified to players, since their counselor will scream when he is in vicinity. So the player doesn't even need to identify Jason themselves, the game just does it for them.

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16 minutes ago, TheHansonGoons said:

I think a lot of people have changed their Jasom strategies as a relief to this symptom. Hence why see so many slashers now.

It's boring as heck, but this is what I have resorted to and it works for the most part.  People have a seriously difficult time countering a slasher.  They panic and don't know what to do so they end up dying.  Also, using stalk as mentioned, is such a useful tool.  It will absolutely help nab some of the more skilled players when they least expect it.  There are just too many pocket knives to deal with.  I still have to worry about med sprays, but I equip as many throwing knives as possible to chip away at a counselor's health in hopes to get the job done.

Quick story about slashing - I was playing a match yesterday with a handful of Level 150's and the rest over Level 125.  Apparently their mission was to kill Jason every single round and they must have succeeded every time before I joined the public match.  I'm not the greatest Jason player and they were going off on me, telling me I was going down and all sorts of trash talk.  Well, I managed to kill the sweater girl with five of them, including Tommy, knocking me to a pulp.  That blew up their plans.  Their reactions though were unbelievable.  Everyone is so used beating the piss and/or killing Jason so often now that when it doesn't go their way they act like babies....and these were "seasoned" F13 players!!  I had one of the Level 150's limping, but couldn't finish him off because he went and committed suicide through a window out of spite.  Another one tried to do the same thing, he was a dick Chad, but I managed to stalk/shift and kill him before he could get that last climb through the window lol.  Ultimately, I got 5/8, two escaped on the boat I lost track of.  Unfortunately, it just showed me that folks have gotten too used to taking advantage of Jason with access to all of those weapons, pocket knives, and sprays.  Most of them feel invincible now until you slash them to death lol

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I will say, in my tests, I have waited inside a cabin, watched phone installation to completion with sense and kill as they go for the phone, rinse and repeat. It's not foolproof, but the method they used to eliminate the trap can give me insight into what they have in inventory.

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12 minutes ago, NthnButAGoodTime said:

I will say, in my tests, I have waited inside a cabin, watched phone installation to completion with sense and kill as they go for the phone, rinse and repeat. It's not foolproof, but the method they used to eliminate the trap can give me insight into what they have in inventory.

Yes!!  This is one of the best uses of Stalk.  I learned this from someone I saw play a match as Jason about 6 months ago, it was amazing to see haha.  Not many Jason's have the patience, but, if it works out, you can destroy counselor after counselor this way :)

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38 minutes ago, NthnButAGoodTime said:

I will say, in my tests, I have waited inside a cabin, watched phone installation to completion with sense and kill as they go for the phone, rinse and repeat. It's not foolproof, but the method they used to eliminate the trap can give me insight into what they have in inventory.

As I said, it can work in certain situations. In this case you are using the phone as bait. But what happens once you are alerted to another objective, and Morph elsewhere? Someone's making that call in your absence, and they don't need to deal with the already disabled traps or need to acquire the fuse. Everything's ready for them to repair and call, potentially before your Morph cooldown is even over. 

I do camp the phone sometimes in Stalk, but only if it's already been breached and fuse has been installed. I wouldn't willingly let it get to that stage. I'd much rather kill the counselor before they even disable the traps if I'm already there, otherwise it's just giving up objective defence. 

I also think that what they use to disable the traps is no guaranteed indication of what items they have. Counselors tank traps all the time and save the pocket knives for themselves, for reasons I already mentioned in the previous post. Especially if counselors are split pushing objectives and taking advantage of Jason's cooldown, there's not even any need to use pocket knife so you can tank traps and he can do nothing about it.

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17 minutes ago, Tommy86 said:

As I said, it can work in certain situations. In this case you are using the phone as bait. But what happens once you are alerted to another objective, and Morph elsewhere? Someone's making that call in your absence, and they don't need to deal with the already disabled traps or need to acquire the fuse. Everything's ready for them to repair and call, potentially before your Morph cooldown is even over. 

I do camp the phone sometimes in Stalk, but only if it's already been breached and fuse has been installed. I wouldn't willingly let it get to that stage. I'd much rather kill the counselor before they even disable the traps if I'm already there, otherwise it's just giving up objective defence. 

I also think that what they use to disable the traps is no guaranteed indication of what items they have. Counselors tank traps all the time and save the pocket knives for themselves, for reasons I already mentioned in the previous post. Especially if counselors are split pushing objectives and taking advantage of Jason's cooldown, there's not even any need to use pocket knife so you can tank traps and he can do nothing about it.

In this approach, I'm allowing the counselors to install whatever, I don't move on a vehicle until I see motion, and even then, I've got time to make a judgement call on whether I leave now or wait until it's closer to a choke point. I'm spamming sense (something I'm not completely convinced isn't an exploit) and map to keep an eye on what's happening near and far.

Regarding the items on traps: Its definitely not a guarantee that the item they use is the item they have more of, but it's a possible indicator. I'm still likely to slash first in my attack.

Ultimately, I'm not presenting this as THE solution, or even the only thing I'm testing, just as an example of how we can re-approach our Jason strategy as the game changes. I'd rather adapt to the game than wait until the game adapts to me.

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15 hours ago, Official_Adam_W said:

Not gonna lie, as i read this i was picturing it in my head and damn it was funny. I would love to see someone play on stream with him and do this when he is Jason.

He got frustrated because I was Mitch, had 1 pocketknife only, and grabbed me and I got out of it.

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2 minutes ago, Redcat345 said:

He got frustrated because I was Mitch, had 1 pocketknife only, and grabbed me and I got out of it.

I would love to play with the developers. To sad they usually are on Steam and if they were on PS4 I wouldn't be on :( 

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1 minute ago, NthnButAGoodTime said:

Ultimately, I'm not presenting this as THE solution, or even the only thing I'm testing, just as an example of how we can re-approach our Jason strategy as the game changes. I'd rather adapt to the game than wait until the game adapts to me.

Definitely, don't get me wrong I'm not opposed to that attitude at all. I feel it's discussion like this that helps strategies form, I'm just pointing out some of the flaws I personally see in this approach. Doesn't mean it can't be improved. By all means, keep trying new things out. 

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1 minute ago, Tommy86 said:

Definitely, don't get me wrong I'm not opposed to that attitude at all. I feel it's discussion like this that helps strategies form, I'm just pointing out some of the flaws I personally see in this approach. Doesn't mean it can't be improved. By all means, keep trying new things out. 

Good stuff. It's definitely not sustainable as a match-long approach, more of a supplement. I'm also playing with the idea of killing the first repairman at the box and hiding a trap under the body.

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15 minutes ago, NthnButAGoodTime said:

Good stuff. It's definitely not sustainable as a match-long approach, more of a supplement. I'm also playing with the idea of killing the first repairman at the box and hiding a trap under the body.

It could work, providing the game allows you to place a trap in close enough proximity to the previously disabled one (assuming you did place one). The body would have to be close enough to phone box to guarantee a counselor's interaction with it, and in my experience it can be problematic replacing traps due to the distance change.

What I do is double-trap phone box by placing the traps in line, one beneath the other (closest to box first). It is tricky to place the 2nd one but you can do it quickly after enough practice, just turn and take small steps towards the 1st trap until it allows you to. What I would suggest is let the first repair counselor disable the bottom trap, kill them and then move their body over the top trap to conceal it. This will force a tank for the next counselor even if they didn't plan on it.

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Just now, Tommy86 said:

It could work, providing the game allows you to place a trap in close enough proximity to the previously disabled one (assuming you did place one). The body would have to be close enough to phone box to guarantee a counselor's interaction with it, and in my experience it can be problematic replacing traps due to the distance change.

What I do is double-trap phone box by placing the traps in line, one beneath the other (closest to box first). It is tricky to place the 2nd one but you can do it quickly after enough practice. What I would suggest is let the first repair counselor disable the bottom trap and then move their body over the top trap to conceal it. This will force a tank for the next counselor even if they didn't plan on it. .

I was thinking more along the lines of not trapping at all until I had a body to use to conceal it. I really like the idea of shaking things up for myself, and using elements of the game, in ways they may not have been originally intended (Exploitation aside. You're never see me on a roof)

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