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Jubileet

Devs Need to Read this Discussion on Perks

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This is a great discussion with some great ideas from the community. Worth a read. imo. Yall must have some data on how often Perks are equipped and used in game. I'm sure a lot of them have a very low %.

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Agree that the perks system could use an overhaul. Niche perks just aren't worth using compared to things like thick skinned, medic and so on. Also it's kind of tedious deleting perks, waiting on the server, then waiting on the rolling process only to get a perk you already have just of a lower value. Repeat ad nauseum until you finally get something worthwhile, which for me took some 40 odd minutes. :o 

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The Devs seriously don't really care. I have sent multiple reports, messages, tagged them in threads and get responses such as "I do not recall seeing this", when surely i remember getting a huge post in response from them. From what I can see they really have no feelings for what the majority of us think. Things we have said? Still some have yet to come. when this could have been as long as...8 months! (Frustration Beware)

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They have stated before perks are not meant to be game changing.  While the system does need a major revamp, they will not spend much effort for a system that isn't supposed to make drastic changes to gameplay.  They couldn't even get a hot fix out for the 100% crash(which isn't time intensive hence why it is called a hot fix because it's fast and quick) because it would take too much time and not worth the effort.  Regardless of how many it effects, you are acknowledging they do not matter and don't care they can not play your game.  Dont expect them to do much for the player base with that type of mentality. 

I honestly believe perks aren't supposed to be game changing is just another lame excuse because it would require major balance changes which as we have seen, they are not very good at.  From where we were to now, balance has been completely thrown out the window.  You know the invisible wall window you still can't attack counselors through :lol::P 

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Thick skinned barely does anything anymore. You get one extra time going through a broken windoe, or an extra throwing knife to be killed. Not game changing. 

The perks themselves don't need revamping. Counselors are already ahead in the balance game. What needs to happen is a level progression change. A system that makes you work towards earning perks you want for your play style. Not this casino slot machine style rolling. 

I will read through that discussion soon as I am very interested in their suggestions. Thanks for providing it here.

Edit: honestly. After reading through most of it, I was very disappointed. It seemed it was mainly people complaining the perks don't do enough, as if the counselors don't already have the advantage. 

If you think about it, it's one guy vs 7 with 3 perks each and a 20 minute timer. Already how many times do people survive the whole 20 minutes now as is? Giving their perks more strength will further change the balance in their favor. The original poster also mentions that "every character should only use these 3 specific perks". That is an extremely biased opinion and doesn't take in account different play styles. He must play more attackers. I personally am a fixer and use maybe 1 or 2 of the perks he mentions on only few characters. 

It's an interesting discussion with a couple good points. I personally disagree with a bit of it.

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The perks need to be cut in half. Also, flashlights need to be an item you have to find, or a perk that you can start with.

Someone also mentioned in another thread that your “defensive item” AKA pocket knife should have its own slot to where you can only carry one at a time. I really like that idea.

As well, with the size of the med sprays, you should only be able to hold one at a time as well. They are huge aerosol cans... where are they going, in your pocket? The amount of md sprays on each map should be cut in half. Getting hit by Jason or stepping in traps should have dire consequences. With that, people can opt to use a perk to start with a med spray. Make selecting perks have more strategic value.

The perk “Medic” needs to be removed, it’s incredibly unfair and should not be allowed  one spritz of a med spray could be the difference between winning and dying  

Also, the medical spray needs to be officially deemed “med spray” that quickly heals some health. It’s listed as “first aid” in the inventory so there’s inconsistency about what it really is. We need an actual “first aid’ added as an item that completely heals, but you have to hold it for the action button 10 seconds. No quick heals in between Jason’s swings. There should only be 2 of these a map. As you can tell, I believe the entire game needs to be overhauled 

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16 hours ago, TheHansonGoons said:

Thick skinned barely does anything anymore. You get one extra time going through a broken windoe, or an extra throwing knife to be killed. Not game changing. 

The perks themselves don't need revamping. Counselors are already ahead in the balance game. What needs to happen is a level progression change. A system that makes you work towards earning perks you want for your play style. Not this casino slot machine style rolling. 

I will read through that discussion soon as I am very interested in their suggestions. Thanks for providing it here.

Edit: honestly. After reading through most of it, I was very disappointed. It seemed it was mainly people complaining the perks don't do enough, as if the counselors don't already have the advantage. 

If you think about it, it's one guy vs 7 with 3 perks each and a 20 minute timer. Already how many times do people survive the whole 20 minutes now as is? Giving their perks more strength will further change the balance in their favor. The original poster also mentions that "every character should only use these 3 specific perks". That is an extremely biased opinion and doesn't take in account different play styles. He must play more attackers. I personally am a fixer and use maybe 1 or 2 of the perks he mentions on only few characters. 

It's an interesting discussion with a couple good points. I personally disagree with a bit of it.

Totally agree with the progression system but if the Perks are not reworked everyone is going to work towards the same perks and in the end you'll have the same result. Everyone will have the same play-style with very minor variations. 

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5 hours ago, HuDawg said:

 

 

I am not a try hard, but I do not play random. I am level 130, and I have the best luck surviving with Tiffany. Yes, I love a little A.J. once and a while but I just enjoy Tiffany's play style. Almost every match I do what I can to ferry items, juke Jason, and eat traps. And about 95% of the time that works out. I always leave thick skinned (For protection and slashers), and sucker punch (To juke Jason; my hobby) on all of my characters. Joining sucker punch, spatial awareness, and thick skinned on Tiffany makes my game a breeze. But this is also because I am a Jason kinda guy; even with all the counselor buffs I still love playing Jason and surprisingly enjoy it!

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1 hour ago, Jubileet said:

Totally agree with the progression system but if the Perks are not reworked everyone is going to work towards the same perks and in the end you'll have the same result. Everyone will have the same play-style with very minor variations. 

What I am trying to say is the perks themselves aren't as much of an issue. Being level 125 and having spent well over 100k CP and still not having epic Marathon is. 

To illustrate my point lets create a scenario with buffed up perks. Think of a Vanessa character with Epics Marathong, Restful, and Thick Skin. Not only will be be able to run extremely long distances, she will be able to charge up stamina incredibly fast. Add in windows barely doing any damage, it will take about 1 health spray to heal her enough to take several broken windows. She will easily dodge Jason for an entire 20 minutes.

I can see why Some perks could use a bit of a buffer: tinkerer is one I can think of. However, buffing them too much will only further increase balance issues. Greasy Monkey was nerfed when Jason stun time was increased because Jason had no time to recuperate and try to attack.

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The issue with perks is that a majority of them are borderline useless.  There are only ten perks that matter because they directly impose on your interactions with Jason and your ability to survive. Not to mention that are five varieties of each perk.  No matter how many updates, maps and counselors we get down the road EPIC barricading and swimming will still be useless.

 

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4 hours ago, HuDawg said:

 

Acutally i enjoy the shit out of playing this game and I have a great time! And actually 95% of the community uses the same style as me! Just get through your head, that not everyone is you :) 

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4 hours ago, TheHansonGoons said:

 

I'm not trying to sound crass :) , but did you have a look at the Reddit post? There are some really good suggestions on how to revamp the Perk system. Infact, the three Perks you use as an example might be the 3 best designed Perks (I have Epic of all 3) that don't need updating. However, most Perks NEED updating or buffing if not a complete rework. The problem is the other Perks are not really worth using at all. For example, Quiet Swimmer - why would you need to be in a water? There are no objectives in water and they only recently introduced one map (Jarvais) that you would ever need to swim (only momentarily) on. There are simply too many useless Perks.  

 

2 hours ago, HuDawg said:

.

I mean the game has a win/loss scenario. You can't argue it's not a competitive game. The game consists of two sides with different objectives. Even if you are playing for fun, a game by definition is competitive in nature. Whether or not you're playing to win or lose is another story, but that just sounds like trolling. :P

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54 minutes ago, Jubileet said:

I'm not trying to sound crass :) , but did you have a look at the Reddit post? There are some really good suggestions on how to revamp the Perk system. Infact, the three Perks you use as an example might be the 3 best designed Perks (I have Epic of all 3) that don't need updating. However, most Perks NEED updating or buffing if not a complete rework. The problem is the other Perks are not really worth using at all. For example, Quiet Swimmer - why would you need to be in a water? There are no objectives in water and they only recently introduced one map (Jarvais) that you would ever need to swim (only momentarily) on. There are simply too many useless Perks.  

I won't disagree with too many useless perks, and running out of room argument. Some perks could be done away with. Who uses a However most of the arguments on the discussion sounded like people that at are bad counselors and want to be OP, as if they don't have the advantage already.

I have said my piece about the discussion on that page. I disagree with most of what was sad. That's all. Not a big deal or personal attack.

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2 hours ago, HuDawg said:

 

But wait. How would you know if someone was a try hard if they wouldn't have told you? I play as what you call a try hard and what i call normal. Basically your saying that running around a map juking the shit out of jason, fixing the car as TIFFANY, and escaping is not style? Your playing the wrong game if you think everyone does what you do...All I am saying is not everyone wants to play like you! Case closed, i need no more of what you have to say. :) 

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OK, get the discussion on topic. Thanks. 

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1 hour ago, TheHansonGoons said:

I won't disagree with too many useless perks, and running out of room argument. Some perks could be done away with. Who uses a However most of the arguments on the discussion sounded like people that at are bad counselors and want to be OP, as if they don't have the advantage already.

I have said my piece about the discussion on that page. I disagree with most of what was sad. That's all. Not a big deal or personal attack.

Just to clarify, you posted a link to a different discussion than the one I originally created this thread about - I'm not sure if I'm confusing responses because it looks like (to me) your response/Edit was directed at the thread you linked and not the Reddit discussion! I havent read your link but I thought there were some good points in the reddit discussion.

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22 minutes ago, Jubileet said:

Just to clarify, you posted a link to a different discussion than the one I originally created this thread about - I'm not sure if I'm confusing responses because it looks like (to me) your response/Edit was directed at the thread you linked and not the Reddit discussion! I havent read your link but I thought there were some good points in the reddit discussion.

I don't disagree there are a few, literally a few, points in your Reddit thread that I agree with. One of the points brought up was the fact the RNG level progression is messed up. I brought up the topic to revamp the level progression system as I agree with that person and here is an idea my friend pitched a while ago that would improve what they are discussing. That is why the topic I brought up came into play.

I can see why you think some of that discussion has good points. There are a few brought up. Most of it though is people complaining they want the perks to be more potent and effect the game more. I disagree. I feel that would make counselors OP. I played several games of Quick Match today where we toyed with Jason for most of the game. I had a few where I completed nearly every objective myself, lone wolfing. Why do perks need to be better if we are in the state of game where counselors hunt Jason like a group of Neegans? Jason is already so weak as is, I don't see the point in making new or stronger perks. 

So I agree with the fact there are useless perks. I agree with changing the amount of perk slots we have so we don't have to constantly delete them. I have 100k CP and don't want to delete many of my perks because they are rares and Epics. Most importantly i agres with revamping the level progression system and reading that topic you will understand why. People have suggested, for a while now, about more perk slots at higher levels or for "x" amount of CP.

However, most people on that thread seem like people whining because they want their counselor to be able to survive 20 minutes easily, which literally defeats the purpose of the game and changes balance for the worst. It would make the game unplayable. 

Since you seem to be struggling with this I will reiterate again, a few people there have solid ideas. Most of those ideas have been brought up on the forums. Others come off as so "matter of factly about their opinions" when i disagree completely with their choices and have a different playstyle. As for the majority of that thread, it's bitching about feeling perks are useless and they want them overpowered to make themselves great. I never say this, but most of those people need to "git gud". Not trying to be rude to you, but I have restated my point a few times and I am done with the conversation. I am not trying to attack you and I feel you brought in a good discussion to the forums. Thanks for that. I was expressing my opinions on how I feel about the thread. I have stated why I agree with a couple people, yet disagree with the majority. I am sure some other forum members here will agree with a lot of it. Some will have harsher words than me if they take the time to actually read it.

Thank you for a very insightful contribution.

 

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I took some time to consolidate the existing perks based on what I personally find useful and relevant. I then put them into categories of three that a counselor might use as a pack together.

_________________

PERKS TO AID CONTACT WITH JASON

Swift Attack- faster attack

Escape Artist- faster at escaping grip (needs to be buffed)

Thick Skin- reduced damage

_________________

PERKS THATS HELP ATTACKERS

Heavy Hitter- more attack damage

Man At Arms- better weapon durability 

Sucker Punch- better stun chance

_____________

PERKS THAT HELP REPAIRERS

Sneaky- faster movement in windows

Tinker- faster repair

Grease Monkey- faster car start time

_____________

PERKS THAT HELP RUNNERS

Light Foot- less noice from running 

Marathon- increased stamina

Spatial Awareness- less stumbling

_____________

PERKS THAT REDUCE FEAR

Loan Wolf- reduced fear by yourself 

Night Owl- reduced fear from darkness 

Teamwork- reduced fear per teammate

__________________

PERKS THATS AVOID SENSE

Homebody- avoid sense in buildings 

Level Headed- avoid sense altogether

Low Profile- avoid sense when crouched

__________________

PERKS THAT ADD ITEMS TO START

Firecracker- start with a firecracker

Hypochondriac- start with med spray 

Preparedness- start with map

Psychic- start with walkie

Slugger- start with bat

___________________

Notice I’ve gotten rid of Medic, the most overused, over-relied on, unbalanced perk.

For me, I would like to see flashlights removed as an automat item equipped, and one you would have to find, or use a perk to start with one. Otherwise, why not have a counselors start with a walkie, a pocket knife, a map, and a flashlight? Why, because it’s stupid. If counselors were attacked like in the prologue of the match, they would not all have flashlights on them. Some might, and some might also have the items the players choose to start with. 

I also wouldn’t be opposed to seeing a perk to start with a pocket knife IF ONLY IF pocket knives were rendered ineffective against Jason with rage, but we know that won’t happen. What do you guys think?

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ProTip: Don't post light grey text on a dark grey background. I ain't reading that shit.

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