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"Only Dicks Slash!" - Having Fun Again

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On 7/20/2018 at 12:21 AM, Redcat345 said:

You gotta show me a gif of these frames you are describing in slow motion.

You don’t need any gif. Next time you’re in game, slash and watch the throwing knife indicator - it dims while you’re slashing or performing any uncancellable action. When it lights up again, that’s when you can do anything again.

Which means unless you can perfectly time a block the moment the knife lights up - and not a moment before because no other inputs register during slash - chances are you getting immediately counterhit. 

2 hours ago, Brevator said:

Slashing works. Period. 

No, it doesn’t. It has already been explained to you by @JennyMyers1984 and if you are having any luck with slashing at all then it is you who is playing against inexperienced counselors. Who are most likely not even using combat stance to initiate their swings, and wildly swinging in opposite directions which is why you are able to slash them once they whiff.

All a counselor needs to do is block your hit and immediately hit back. Congrats you’ve now just incurred a stun in return for your very low dmg slash on block. 

Also in regards to this -

6 hours ago, Brevator said:

You still have to land that hit. Good luck. If you think you're quick enough to use a spray while I'm slashing you to pieces, good luck. Even if you do, your sprays will eventually run out. My slashing won't. 

Sprays were changed as of last patch to instantly heal a counselor, even if they cancel the spray action. So yes it is extremely easy to heal in Jason’s face now, and bamboozle him by cancelling the spray into a swing for an easy hit - while still getting your health back.

Also, sprays are not the only thing that will run out. Your mask HP will also quickly run out if you are trying to slash down a good counselor with a machete. Your time to deal with objectives being contested will also run out if you are constantly getting stunned.

I will say this very clearly - slashing is the most unviable tactic and anyone who has not yet realised this is playing against counselors who don’t know what they’re doing. The only exception is a counter slash followed by a 1 frame block but this will not work against someone with Swift perk.

To explain it mechanically, the reason why it is so easy for counselor to counterhit is because their “damaged” animation is extremely short and resets all recovery frames. So let’s say you have just blocked a counselor swing - the counselor does incur recovery frames on their blocked hit however once you slash them back, they enter the damaged animation and all recovery is deleted. As soon as they are hit, they can hit back immediately before Jason can do anything about it.

It works for Jason the same way, with 1 big difference - a counselor isn’t getting stunned from a hit.

  • Haha 1

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Playing a game right now that all the guy does is slash. I mean I'm ok with that if that is what player wants to do. But he isn't even trying to grab anyone. All his kills have been slashing.

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24 minutes ago, Dr Zaius 007 said:

Playing a game right now that all the guy does is slash. I mean I'm ok with that if that is what player wants to do. But he isn't even trying to grab anyone. All his kills have been slashing.

Probably trying to cut pocket knives out of their diet. Was eating way too many of em. Lol

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@Tommy86 Oh, they knew what they were doing alright. They were Level 150. You can say "Level doesn't equal skill", but anyone who's been playing the game that long knows what they're doing. 

They had their swing game down pat. I was just better at avoiding it. Your mechanical explanation is correct in theory, but it still assumes that counselors are able to land a hit with every swing. And with the broken combat system, that just isn't possible. 

I've started playing the same fake-out game that exploiters like to play with Jason's grab. Jason's grab might be easily punishable if you miss, but I've found that missed counselor swings are easy to bait and equally punishable. And even with the Swift Perk, Jason's swings are faster, with no recovery frames...

As for 1 frame blocking, I don't even use combat stance unless I'm being attacked by a group of more than three counselors. At least I've never felt the need to. I can dodge a swing by rotating Jason around, the same way you can dodge Jason's grab.

When I get into a situation where slashing fails me, I'll let you know. It's hardly my primary offense, and it's not ideal to just walk around slashing all willy nilly, but it works when you use it correctly. 

 

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43 minutes ago, Brevator said:

@Tommy86 Oh, they knew what they were doing alright. They were Level 150. You can say "Level doesn't equal skill", but anyone who's been playing the game that long knows what they're doing

There’s a huge joke in that sentence and you know it. Level doesn’t at all correlate to skill, it simply means there is a better chance the player is skilled / possesses some knowledge. You can immediately prove this theory correct just by playing some random QP matches and seeing the general lack of skill across the board, regardless of level. This isn’t me being cynical, majority of players simply don’t care enough to continue learning / advancing. 

If you have a clip of your match I’m sure I could explain everything those counselors did wrong.

43 minutes ago, Brevator said:

They had their swing game down pat. I was just better at avoiding it. Your mechanical explanation is correct in theory, but it still assumes that counselors are able to land a hit with every swing. And with the broken combat system, that just isn't possible. 

It isn’t theory, it is fact. Those are the mechanics and anyone can find that out for themselves. It is easy to consistently land a swing providing you initiate CS beforehand and let its tracking do the work for you. And provided you have good execution and timing of course.That’s what CS is, it is auto aim precisely to avoid whiffing. If we are talking hit detection that is a different topic with different variables.

43 minutes ago, Brevator said:

 I've started playing the same fake-out game that exploiters like to play with Jason's grab. Jason's grab might be easily punishable if you miss, but I've found that missed counselor swings are easy to bait and equally punishable. And Jason's swings are faster...

What are you talking about in regards to exploiting? If it’s what I think you’re talking about, that isn’t exploiting, that is baiting.

43 minutes ago, Brevator said:

As for 1 frame blocking, I don't even use combat stance unless I'm being attacked by a group of more than three counselors. At least I've never felt the need to. I can dodge a swing by rotating Jason around, the same way you can dodge Jason's grab.

That tells me all I need to know. If you aren’t using combat stance, then you also aren’t blocking, choosing to depend entirely on twirling (bad idea). Ironically utilising combat stance only when there is more than 1 counselor isn’t going to help the situation, as the lock-on will prevent you from observing the other counselors. 

Combat stance should be constantly used for both offence and defence, but the way to use it effectively is as an in/out function, not to stand around in. Good spacing must be kept against a group and constant pressure, with blocking when necessary. Offensively throwing knives are king in this scenario since they are unpunishable and their recovery can also be interrupted (unlike slashing).

But hey guys, what do I know right?

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16 hours ago, JennyMyers1984 said:

When you see everybody in the match was either slashed, asphyxiated, or decapitated it just shows you rely on slashing or the same kills over and over again.

There are multiple kills that lead to the Status asphyxiated , decapitaded and even murdered……….

9 hours ago, JennyMyers1984 said:

I’m confident but not cocky

Quote

But hey guys, what do I know right?

That one really made me laugh more than I should.

Well , anyways we Always appreciate your Knowledge , @Tommy86.

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Yeah, I've only been playing since May 2017, I guess I don't know what I'm talking about.

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Arguing about Slashing being viable against GOOD players is pointless.

Its all situational.    For example..   

-Catch a GOOD player with a battery, hes easy pickings for slashing.   

-Stalk shift into a GOOD player with a slash and a quick throwing knife, they will be limping.

The reality is..  Once a player is limping hes at the mercy of a Jason player.   At that point the Jason player makes the choice.  Do i pull off a cinematic money shot kill.. or do i just Slash again and instantly kill the play in a second

The bulk of the game play in this game is done in QP.  And QP is total dice roll when it comes to players.

Get stuck on a SMALL map filled with GOOD players..Who ran sack everything in 30-60 seconds, with all objectives and other players a few seconds away..  Ya, Jason is gonna get a beating and slashing players to death becomes difficult.

Play on Normal maps..  with a lobby half filled good players. With objectives and players so spread apart.  It becomes alot easier to slash kill anyone you want. 

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1 hour ago, Brevator said:

Yeah, I've only been playing since May 2017, I guess I don't know what I'm talking about.

I am a day 1 player also, not that it's especially relevant but I have provided the facts to back up what I am saying, all you have been able to provide is that you use the basic "twirling" technique which I was already doing a year ago and can tell you it is not good enough. Even if you make one counselor whiff in a group, another can hit you while you are slashing. So just because a technique can work against inexperienced players doesn't mean you should do it, there are far better methods that will work not only against those players but also the highly skilled. Those are the ones I recommend.

48 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

Arguing about Slashing being viable against GOOD players is pointless.

Not really, it is a very simple topic actually. Does a player have a weapon? If yes, don't slash. Even if the counselor is inexperienced they can get a lucky counter hit in, the risk is there. If no, by all means slash if you like. Ethically I have no problem with slashing, although it is disadvantageous in that you are just leaving pocket knives around that can be used later on by others. Whether for disabling a trap, for protection as a driver, protection as sweater girl, or other reasons. There are only 4 PKs on the map and deleting them early on is good for you in the long run. It is much safer to just quick toss a couple of knives if you want to cripple them beforehand, which is good for deleting sprays and removing mobility advantage efficiently.

48 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

-Stalk shift into a GOOD player with a slash and a quick throwing knife, they will be limping.

If you were to do this, you would do it the opposite. Throwing knife > slash out of Shift. Since throwing knife can be interrupted with slash, not the other way around. You would also only do this if counselor doesn't have a weapon, not even the 1 frame slash block can save you since a knife interrupt with slash means you can no longer block in time. Don't put too much faith into Stalk either, it is very easy to recognize when Jason is in Stalk since the alerts are different. Long range Shift is the reason you can catch counselors unaware, not Stalk itself unless a player does not know the difference between alerts.

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13 minutes ago, Tommy86 said:

 

If you were to do this, you would do it the opposite. Throwing knife > slash out of Shift. Since throwing knife can be interrupted with slash, not the other way around. 

Its all situational.   

How i do it, doesn't really matter.   Sometimes I slash out of a shift, i hit them with a slash and knife before they can even re-act.   Sometimes i might knife first then slash.  It depends one whats going on and the distance.

For me.  I can slash anyone i want to death once i see an opening . I don't care how good anyone thinks they are.  The only thing that can stop me is another player...  

I just don't slash people to death.. Unless i want to give them a piss poor death.  Its basically Jasons T BAG.

And i always put my faith in Stalk.. I don't even bothering trying till i get stalk.

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Just now, HuDawg said:

Its all situational.  

How i do it, doesn't really matter.    If i slash out of a shift, i hit them with a slash and knife.. Before they can even re-act.   Sometimes i might knife first then slash.  It depends one whats going on and the distance.

For me.  I can slash anyone i want to death once i see an opening . I don't care how good anyone thinks they are.  The only thing can stop me is another player...   

I just don't slash people to death.. Unless i want to give them a piss poor death.  Its basically Jasons T BAG.

By the time you go to throw that knife against counselor with a weapon after your slash, you'll already be on the ground. No, you can't just go around just slashing anyone to death regardless of situation, if you would like to try it against me I will happily show you otherwise.

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1 minute ago, Tommy86 said:

By the time you go to throw that knife against counselor with a weapon after your slash, you'll already be on the ground. No, you can't just go around just slashing anyone to death regardless of situation, if you would like to try it against me I will happily show you otherwise.

 

LMFAO!  

Ok.. so if you're running with a battery in your hand.. ALONE... And i clip you with a Stalk Shit Slash and a quick knife to the ass.

 

What are you gonna do?  Just wondering.

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3 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

Ok.. so if you're running with a battery in your hand.. ALONE... And i clip you with a Stalk Shit Slash and a quick knife to the ass.

No weapon = good to slash. Weapon = don't slash. Pretty simple. Unless you want to end up like all the other ape slasher Jasons constantly getting stunned / demasked in no time flat.

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7 minutes ago, Tommy86 said:

No weapon = good to slash. Weapon = don't slash. Pretty simple. Unless you want to end up like all the other ape slasher Jasons constantly getting stunned / demasked in no time flat.

Im not an ape slasher tho..  Im an opportunist.  

Infact sometimes i want to get hit by counselors to get my rage faster or make them burn a med spray.  

That why don't even really try till i get stalk.  Pre Stalk, i like to play stupid and predictable.  So, the more i get hit the better... :D

Alls im saying is.. I could slash kill most players if I want.. I just don't.   

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1 minute ago, HuDawg said:

Infact sometimes i want to get hit by counselors to get my rage faster or make them burn a med spray.   

That why don't even really try till i get stalk.  Pre Stalk, i like to play stupid and predictable.  So, the more i get hit the better... :D

Why would you allow yourself to get hit and either incur a stun or damage, when you can gain Rage just the same by blocking the hit? And only taking extremely low block damage? Sprays can also be deleted just the same with a safe throwing knife, which deals 30 dmg per knife just the same as a +Weapon Str slash, or 10 more damage than a normal slash. 

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4 hours ago, The Wolf with that Toast said:

There are multiple kills that lead to the Status asphyxiated , decapitaded and even murdered……….

That one really made me laugh more than I should.

Well , anyways we Always appreciate your Knowledge , @Tommy86.

Sure, Jan...whatever you say. You can be confident in your abilites without being cocky. Are you a good Jason player? It seems like you think you are. It means you’re confident in your ability to kill all counselors. Doesn’t mean you’re cocky about it. I’m confident in my ability to survive as a counselor. It isn’t that difficult to survive a full 20 minutes, kill Jason, or escape a round plain and simple. Of course I’ve had rounds where I have died just like everybody else. I just know a majority of the time I can survive. At least I’m not over here sending outdated GIF’s acting like I know everything there is to know like SOMEBODY is ??‍♂

And you KNOW what I mean about the kills. One handed choke, head punch, and slashing...no need to be a smart ass about it

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8 minutes ago, Tommy86 said:

Why would you allow yourself to get hit and either incur a stun or damage, when you can gain Rage just the same by blocking the hit?

Because BLOCK is BROKEN!  And has been since the engine upgrade.  Its unreliable.

Sure.. if im busting into a room and can pull up Combat Stance ASAP and force block my way in.. i will.  But in most cases Combat Stance = Counselors run away.

I mean.. Sometimes i might slash someone one time and let them run away.   Im in no rush...  Its just me saying "HELLO"!

But its all situational.  You seem to want to make this into a Counselor VS Jason on even grounds.. face to face.. With the counselor jacked up with med sprays/med perks. and players using counselors that always STUN Jason.    Which if thats how you want to paint things, of course the early advantage would go to counselors.

But 90% of the time.. Thats not how things are.

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20 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

Because BLOCK is BROKEN!  And has been since the engine upgrade.  Its unreliable.

It is not so broken that it can no longer be used (although of course it should be fixed). It simply requires more prediction time now rather than reaction time ie. reading the counselor correctly. I do favor the throwing knife instead during their swing start up if I'm not host, but throwing knives are finite as well. Besides what is the alternative? Just get hit without doing anything about it? 

20 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

But in most cases Combat Stance = Counselors run away.

Which is why you don't give them the option to. You have both stamina pressure + health pressure (with TK) to force / bait a counselor to try hitting you, either once their stam is low or they are crippled. At that stage they must initiate combat because they no longer have the mobility advantage.

20 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

With the counselor jacked up with med sprays/med perks. and players using counselors that always STUN Jason

Stun rate is based on the weapon used and whether the counselor has Slugger equipped. Other than that, all counselors have same stun rate, only differing by weapon durability.

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21 minutes ago, Tommy86 said:

 Besides what is the alternative? Just get hit without doing anything about it? 

Yup... lol

Besides.. theres a good chance they don't have med sprays. And depending on what counselor/perks/weapons they use, they also might not get a stun.

Again.. its all situational.  Not that it matters because i only slash to slow counselors down or annoy them.   My main goal is grab.

 

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@Tommy86 is mostly right in this case, but it’s mostly because he’s back it into a very narrow box.

Shifting is a legitimate tactic against good players that doesn’t require CS, so are knives (when they work, but we had that conversation already Tommy.) go back and read what Tommy said about the frames if you need to, it’s all spelled out there but Jason isn’t just slashing or grabbing, he has at least three other options, it means there are different right ways to play it. I like to control the battlefield, that works for me, I can kill a decent team with a single bear trap, never even using block, the tree on the other side of Jason does that for me. Is it the best way probably not but it isn’t common enough for them to have a plan for it. 

Playing Tommy’s way is harder to learn but generally more effective. It isn’t a style that I particularly want to play though, it turns it into to much of a fighting game for my tastes, I think this is a ‘to each there own’, type of situation. 

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28 minutes ago, Slasher_Clone said:

 

Playing Tommy’s way is harder to learn but generally more effective. 

Well.. i was never saying Tommy is wrong.

Im just saying everything is situational.  Forcing a slash is different than  landing a slash when you see an opening.

 

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1 hour ago, JennyMyers1984 said:

Sure, Jan...whatever you say. You can be confident in your abilites without being cocky.You Mention a lot that you think you are a good counselor and I don't really doubt that since it is very easy to be a good one.  Are you a good Jason player? It seems like you think you are. It means you’re confident in your ability to kill all counselors. Doesn’t mean you’re cocky about it. That's because I almost never Mention it because it is almost never important. Also I don't think you're THAT cocky….you just a Little bit cocky...but only a bit. I’m confident in my ability to survive as a counselor. It isn’t that difficult to survive a full 20 minutes, kill Jason, or escape a round plain and simple. Of course I’ve had rounds where I have died just like everybody else. I just know a majority of the time I can survive. At least I’m not over here sending outdated GIF’s acting like I know everything there is to know like SOMEBODY is ??‍♂ When did I act like I know About everything? And what's wrong with outdated Videos? That's the time when they are ripe. 

And you KNOW what I mean about the kills. One handed choke, head punch, and slashing...no need to be a smart ass about it I got called a lot of times a tryhard or whatever whenever I Play Part VII. I like to use the Pamela kill which results in Decapitated…..The headpunch on the wall also....and if it gets dangerous , I also use Head Punch....sometimes just out of fun because I like the kill....I like also the other one's. I also like the two handed choke you know….sometimes People also die from a trap…...well , I think you got the Point , that you shouldn't Judge someone just by the counselors statuses. I even have if you don't believe me.

And anyways , if you would just look at my Name , you should know that you shouldn't take me serious. I am just here to have fun , not someone you should argue with.

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18 minutes ago, The Wolf with that Toast said:

And anyways , if you would just look at my Name , you should know that you shouldn't take me serious. I am just here to have fun , not someone you should argue with.

Sorry if I got a little upset with you...I can be hostile at times, that’s my fault.

I mean if you HAVE to then slashing and head punching is absolutely fine. I just don’t see the point in being petrified of knives and doing the same kill six times over when it negates you extra XP and makes the game boring honestly. When I get caught and KNOW the kill you’re gonna do, doesn’t make the game scary at all. I like the Pamela kill as well and a lot of the decapitation kill but when you first hand witness five head punches...it gets old and tiresome fast. Like is that the only kill you got?

I only mention being a great counselor because people kept saying slashing works when it reeeeally doesn’t if the counselor knows what they are doing. You’ll get punished over and over again and lay flat on your back ten times if you keep going for a slash. That’s why I don’t play Jason because it is super easy to punish him with a missed grab and a missed swing. I think I’ve died MAYBE twice since the new engine update because it is THAT easy to punish Jason. Should it be that way? No, but I doubt it’ll change. I don’t go out of my way to troll Jason and make the player upset, unless I’m being tunneled. It isn’t hard being a counselor but you’d be surprised on how many noobies there are on PS4 that die quickly so you’re left to fend for yourself. I’ve gotten better and better because I’m usually the last one left and I have to fend for myself (I’m usually Tiffany or Jenny).

If I’m cocky so be it...I know what I can do and I do it well.

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1 hour ago, JennyMyers1984 said:

*Pretty good amount of text*

Good that this didn't go into a fight.

And yeah , If they ONLY Slash or use the head Punch or the Hand choke , then that is really lame. But if I haven't seen how he killed the other's I won't Judge.

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17 hours ago, JennyMyers1984 said:

Too many Jason players are petrified of pocket knives, it is ridiculous. 

   There is a reason for this. It is a free hit towards demasking. Many times, particularly if Jason has walked into a bear trap or two, or been shot with a shotgun even once... This one free hit is enough to demask him. Being it is not possible to defend against this... that technically makes it an exploit. Its not the fear of the pocket knife, its the fear of demasking because of this exploit.
   Personally, I still prefer to eat the pocket knives so I can get more grab kills in... but it is more of a pick your situation and hope you don't regret it. Against Tommy or Bugsy... you may be losing your mask, or at least be brought to within one more hit to lose it. Until either Tommy or sweater girl (or every female counselor) is dead... you run a great risk of easily being killed if you play a Jason who will not run away from the fight.

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