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xHowl-

Devs' used Marketplace Package?

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1 minute ago, xHowl- said:

What this thread also shows you is that gaming communities typically have an army of fanboys who hate to admit flaws in the game which they loooveee ;)

...as well as complaining complainers who will find any excuse to complain. Reasonable discussion around flaws is one thing. Complaining about a standard industry practice is silly and devalues actual useful criticism.

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4 minutes ago, auticus said:

What this thread does show you is that the gaming community has a lot of armchair developers that feel that they understand what work goes into making a title, and then make emotional arguments based off of what they think they understand.

Anyone out there into game design or want to get into the field, this is a part that you get to endure ;)

Yep. Everybody always assuming and creating their own story for how the devs "lied" or "hoodwinked" us to justify their faux anger. And in my view it is faux anger. What they also fail to realize is single player is not JUST the offline bots. It's also the challenges that we'll be getting later on. And it's not like they can't fix the issues with the current bots. Of ALL things to be legitimately angry over.

I really hope the devs never respond to these supposed "allegations" or whatever just to piss people off. I know I would never respond.

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9 minutes ago, xHowl- said:

What this thread also shows you is that gaming communities typically have an army of fanboys who hate to admit flaws in the game which they loooveee ;)

You use "fanboys" as an insult. Of course we are fanboys (and girls). Otherwise we wouldn't be geeking out on a forum about the game. What are you doing here? Just trying to stir shit up on a rumor? Or, are you actually a fan? A rumor, by the way, that is common business practice. Remember, the Devs are still working on single player challenges, which I'm sure has taken up a huge chunk of their time. But, you do you.

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8 minutes ago, Rexfellis said:

You use "fanboys" as an insult. Of course we are fanboys (and girls). Otherwise we wouldn't be geeking out on a forum about the game. What are you doing here? Just trying to stir shit up on a rumor? Or, are you actually a fan? A rumor, by the way, that is common business practice. Remember, the Devs are still working on single player challenges, which I'm sure has taken up a huge chunk of their time. But, you do you.

Nope, I'm not here to stir shit up and if I was here for that reason, you wouldn't be making it any better, would you? I want a response from the devs' (which is finally happening) - I'm not the only one wanting answers from them.

 

you question about me being a fan for wanting information on the asset / listing flaws? lol, typical.

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I dont care how they got the offline bots as long as they can tune them up to be harder because on hard it is so easy to kill them the fun dies off like the bots do.lol  

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2 minutes ago, xHowl- said:

I want 

Yeah, that seems to be the mantra around here. "I want' "We need" "Devs should" It just sounds like a bunch of spoiled children to me.

You said you enjoyed the offline bots. They are not the definitive SP experience (as explained to you several times in this thread). The challenges will be. So, if you enjoy the end result, what makes you entitled to know how they achieved it? Why does it matter?

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24 minutes ago, xHowl- said:

What this thread also shows you is that gaming communities typically have an army of fanboys who hate to admit flaws in the game which they loooveee ;)

Sure that's everywhere.  But nothing I have said has been in defense of anything other than pointing out fallacies in game design that the community at large is trying to use as a fulcrum point for their argument. 

More pointedly that using 3rd party assets is somehow lazy or demonstrative of shoddy design and that if they are using 3rd party assets for AI that six months should have been good enough.  Speaking from over two decades of experience in the field, it is not lazy or shoddy, it is common practice, and six months is good to get it working in general with a lot of bugs that will still need ironed out.  I also agree they could probably use more help in terms of developers.

I wouldn't touch the game until single player.  I played a few multiplayer games and it was as bad as I thought it would be, in terms of the community in general.  I'm sure it has plenty of issues that need ironed out.

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6 minutes ago, Rexfellis said:

Yeah, that seems to be the mantra around here. "I want' "We need" "Devs should" It just sounds like a bunch of spoiled children to me.

You said you enjoyed the offline bots. They are not the definitive SP experience (as explained to you several times in this thread). The challenges will be. So, if you enjoy the end result, what makes you entitled to know how they achieved it? Why does it matter?

I use "I want" because a developer already told me they will release information on it soon. I am not using it in a demanding term, which you seem to have misunderstood from my previous posts.

There are several reasons why it matters - why did they delay it in the first place for so long when they had a head start by using an AI Asset pack? 

There is no point going back and fourth anymore - I'll now just wait patiently for the developers explanation because you're not doing much good.

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Pretty sure I've read an interview with Wes (?) before when he says Unreal engine is easy as you can purchase add-ons for it and it makes the whole process a lot simpler. 

I don't think it's anything new that we didn't already know? 

Though I guess if a trained monkey could've created this - it does cause issues. Seeing as the price went up when single player components were confirmed.  

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44 minutes ago, NthnButAGoodTime said:

Is that why you joined in? :P:chadwut:

Yes. When I saw you were posting here, I needed to smarten the thread up ASAP.

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5 hours ago, TestedTwice said:

Damn. I said in the thread about the offline bots that Gun Media/Illfonic surprised me by doing a good job with the bots, only to find out that they had very little to do with it.

@GunMedia_Ben, @wes, @[IllFonic]Courier, @ShiftySamurai Seriously? All the income generated by the sales of this game and you guys can’t hire a team of PROFESSIONALS to build an AI? Hearing this, I’m guessing there can be nothing done to fix Tommy so that he’s not opening and closing a drawer the entire time he’s on the map? Or to stop the counselors from hiding every thirty seconds? I don’t even like to enter cabins with the counselors because they’ll just hide 99.9% of the time. Hard to fix something you didn’t build in the first place, I’m guessing. 

Hiring a team of AI coders would eat away a huge amount of money (and significant time) for a secondary game mode that might not even get used by the majority of players. 

Lets say they hire three skilled guys. After spending 2-4 weeks interviewing people to choose who to hire, those three guys are going to $90,000 or more depending on skill level. Now the team just lost time fixing the game cause they had to spend that time doing interviews. Then, to code the AI in a way that would be really competent and have multiple levels of difficulty would take months of coding and testing, so you wouldn't even have the mode until like next year sometime when you might not even be playing anymore. A real, solid bot AI is incredible hard to code, especially for a game as open ended objective-wise as this one, not to mention the bugs potentially causing AI problems. It took me over a week in college just to get a random AI running that would smartly play tic tac toe... 

I'm sure they'll do what you're suggesting if a sequel gets made, but considering this was just an added mode they didn't plan to make in the first place, I think expectations were set just a little too high. None of these guys are AI coders. They worked with what they had. 

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9 minutes ago, MysteriousMrX said:

Yes. When I saw you were posting here, I needed to smarten the thread up ASAP.

Thank God you're here then! We haven't a moment to lose! Quick! Take this, put all of your smarts in it (it looks like there should be room) and spray them all over us, before the stupid spreads! :P

mini-squirt-gun-assortment~12_9084-a02

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17 minutes ago, xHowl- said:

I use "I want" because a developer already told me they will release information on it soon. I am not using it in a demanding term, which you seem to have misunderstood from my previous posts.

There are several reasons why it matters - why did they delay it in the first place for so long when they had a head start by using an AI Asset pack? 

There is no point going back and fourth anymore - I'll now just wait patiently for the developers explanation because you're not doing much good.

You say it gave them a head start with the asset making out that it should be a quick turnaround from there on in. It doesn't work like that. 

People are acting again like it's some plug and play shit, there is a ton of programming to do. 

There's no scandal here, it's stupid for this to be a topic imo. 

Whats next - oh Nasa you bunch of lazy cunts you used google' s AI program to find planets you couldn't. Despite all the government money get, you didn't build  it yourself - We Want Answers!  

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7 minutes ago, NthnButAGoodTime said:

Thank God you're here then! We haven't a moment to lose! Quick! Take this, put all of your smarts in it (it looks like there should be room) and spray them all over us, before the stupid spreads! :P

You're gonna need a much bigger one than that.

Ask your mom! Tee-hee!

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23 minutes ago, Ralph Wiggum777 said:

Hiring a team of AI coders would eat away a huge amount of money (and significant time) for a secondary game mode that might not even get used by the majority of players. 

Lets say they hire three skilled guys. After spending 2-4 weeks interviewing people to choose who to hire, those three guys are going to $90,000 or more depending on skill level. Now the team just lost time fixing the game cause they had to spend that time doing interviews. Then, to code the AI in a way that would be really competent and have multiple levels of difficulty would take months of coding and testing, so you wouldn't even have the mode until like next year sometime when you might not even be playing anymore. A real, solid bot AI is incredible hard to code, especially for a game as open ended objective-wise as this one, not to mention the bugs potentially causing AI problems. It took me over a week in college just to get a random AI running that would smartly play tic tac toe... 

I'm sure they'll do what you're suggesting if a sequel gets made, but considering this was just an added mode they didn't plan to make in the first place, I think expectations were set just a little too high. None of these guys are AI coders. They worked with what they had. 

I think people seem ticked as it would seem a cheap "Create your own AI" package a spotty kid in his Mother's basement could create himself...was the base for the single player components.

I personally don't have an opinion (read my post a few posts above) but that's just how I'm gauging the response. A simple couple of sentences of "we didn't delete posts from Reddit" or "we deleted a post for this reason" would go a lot further to temper things than a "consider this a warning for mentioning someone's balls..." etc etc whilst the shit is hitting the fan somewhat. 

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46 minutes ago, xHowl- said:

What this thread also shows you is that gaming communities typically have an army of fanboys who hate to admit flaws in the game which they loooveee ;)

You're pissing into the wind.  The allegations of impropriety in this thread are completely absurd, ridiculous, and likely being pushed by the same people who have been on a circle jerk / witch hunt because they are unhappy with the balance issues in the game.  Saying that does not mean I am sucking up to the devs.  It simply means my head is on straight enough to not rush to stupid conclusions while blinded by tribalism.  Call me a blind fanboy all you want, but the claim is patently false and my post history will prove it wrong.  I have been very critical over the delays in SP (until last week ended), the lack of dedicated servers, and the grab range issue (which I see as the lesser issue of the three listed in this sentence).  My criticism is not negated just because I have the ability to remain objective on non-issues.     

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I think people seem ticked as it would seem a cheap "Create your own AI" package a spotty kid in his Mother's basement could create himself...was the base for the single player components.

I think that people who actually think that have no basis in reality or a shred of fact to base that on.  There are assets in the stores created by industry veterans and to say that assets in the store are amateur hacks are incredibly insulting to the quality content that can be found there and to the developers that have created it.

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1 minute ago, auticus said:

 

 

I think that people who actually think that have no basis in reality or a shred of fact to base that on.  There are assets in the stores created by industry veterans and to say that assets in the store are amateur hacks are incredibly insulting to the quality content that can be found there and to the developers that have created it.

I'm not saying I think that. I don't have an opinion on it, from what I understand this was always the gameplan - but this is the opinion that seems be prevalent in this thread, so if it is - address it...quickly.... and don't let it drag on for days and allow tensions to rise - is my thought process.

 

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I didn't say you thought that.  I said that I think that people who actually think that.  For those reading this basing their thoughts on their emotional state.

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8 minutes ago, MysteriousMrX said:

You're gonna need a much bigger one than that.

Ask your mom! Tee-hee!

:huh:Wait... you lost me.... the tiny squirt gun was supposed to contain all your smarts...but my mom knows you'll need a bigger squirt gun for your smarts

Did my mom evaluate your academic test scores? Is she some sort of summertime activities expert who specializes in reservoir capacity for water-based toys? I know her pretty well, and these have never come up in conversation. :huh:

:P

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2 minutes ago, NthnButAGoodTime said:

:huh:Wait... you lost me.... the tiny squirt gun was supposed to contain all your smarts...but my mom knows you'll need a bigger squirt gun for your smarts

Did my mom evaluate your academic test scores? Is she some sort of summertime activities expert who specializes in reservoir capacity for water-based toys? I know her pretty well, and these have never come up in conversation. :huh:

:P

There are many things she's never told you...my son.

This thread is outta control!

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1 minute ago, MysteriousMrX said:

There are many things she's never told you...my son.

200.gif

1 minute ago, MysteriousMrX said:

This thread is outta control!

I can't argue there. I just hope it stays open long enough for me to report back after I've tried substituting dumplin's with canned biscuits.

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Well, thanks for the replies everybody which now clears this topic up for me. 

 

Enjoy everybody and have fun. :JasonPt9:

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This really isn't surprising, one of the main points of using an engine like Unreal 4 is that it offers developers the tools to help develop content quickly.  Now the idea that they spent $80 to add AI is pretty misleading, even if they likely did, that is not how it works.  You don't simply download and add a plug in like that into the game and it magically works, programmers still need to often spend ton of time modifying, testing, and working with the tool kits to get them to work with your game.  Programmers would have to be paid for possibly weeks of programming work still to implement this.  Even big budget titles make use of these tools to add features to their games, they are sold on the market place for the purpose of shortcuts.  While it can be more efficient to create a quality product from the ground up, it costs and takes tons of time, so developers use lot of third party tool kits to speed up the process.  There is nothing unethical about what they have done, they might have cheaped out to add AI to the game.... but what matters is if they can tweak it and work on it some more to make it better than what was delivered. 

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