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Devs' used Marketplace Package?

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1 minute ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

What a big surprise. NOT. Did someone actually think that a company that struggles to deliver a good working MP can actually do the AI by themselves? No way. SP and AI are way, way harder than MP only.

I am also pretty sure i have been reading something on the steamforums about this going to happen. not sure if this was just a guess or it was known already before tough.

Apparently there was an issue with part 4 Jason (if I remember correctly) with the modelling not being their own? Sorry if that's not strictly true, I remember hearing something along the lines of that though.

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Hey you guys, everyone is being real mean. It's a really small company and their job is hard. Just give them a chance. They haven't let us down before.

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Another thing that bothers me about Gun/Illfonic not hiring PROFESSIONALS is the fact that building the AI from scratch could have made these bots WAY smarter. The bots could be a TON more fun than they are now if Gun/Illfonic could put their greed/pride away for a minute and spend some of their sales revenue to hire some PROFESSIONALS.  

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I'm an indie game dev.  I've been doing game development for 20+ years.  This kind of stuff is normal.  I don't see a problem with it.  The asset stores for Unreal and Unity game engines are huge because it saves time and is the same as hiring an outside party to add a component to your game.  

The big AAA studios do the same thing, only they wrote their own game engine so they contract 3rd party teams to fill in gaps.  Same as this.  This is making a giant issue out of literally nothing and pretty much every game out there does this to an extent, particularly the indie/small companies.  Especially when it comes to areas that the dev team is not proficient in.  

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11 minutes ago, Toddarino said:

Hey you guys, everyone is being real mean. It's a really small company and their job is hard. Just give them a chance. They haven't let us down before.

Now that's sarcasm.

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I never intended this thread to cause controversy in any way, I just wanted genuine feedback and thoughts on what other people thought about the whole AI asset and to hopefully receive a valid response from one of the developers verifying if it's true or false. After I posted it on the sub-reddit and saw it got deleted I couldn't believe it; the rumour had to be spread to the community. It's almost like we  got played like fiddles - imagine if the AI asset was never found (whether or not it's true...) then the developers would continue to receive more credit for something they didn't strictly program themselves. 

At the end of the day, I am happy with the bots and will continue to have fun in offline-mode, however, assets are there to help the "poorer" companies. Never is it okay for an "indie" company whom made over $1m in kickstarter (which excludes all sales after and also any other form of income) to use an AI asset pack. It's just not acceptable, hire real developers to work on AI if you don't have the knowledge to do it yourself.

5 minutes ago, auticus said:

I'm an indie game dev.  I've been doing game development for 20+ years.  This kind of stuff is normal.  I don't see a problem with it.  The asset stores for Unreal and Unity game engines are huge because it saves time and is the same as hiring an outside party to add a component to your game.  

The asset store are there to help indie companies who can't fund top level programmers. It's not like these developers didn't receive a lot of income...

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25 minutes ago, xHowl- said:

No actually, I'm not mad that they use the Unreal Engine. In fact, I'm not mad at all. 

Seriously, take your head out of their asses.

Really? You certainly sound real mad.

Also, zero need for you to insult me, considering the fact that I in no way attacked you or said anything negative about you. Not only is it immature, it's against forum rules.

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9 minutes ago, MysteriousMrX said:

Also, zero need for you to insult me, considering the fact that I in no way attacked you or said anything negative about you. Not only is it immature, it's against forum rules.

Oops! I sincerely apologise for insulting you. 

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11 minutes ago, auticus said:

I'm an indie game dev.  I've been doing game development for 20+ years.  This kind of stuff is normal.  I don't see a problem with it.  The asset stores for Unreal and Unity game engines are huge because it saves time and is the same as hiring an outside party to add a component to your game.  

The big AAA studios do the same thing, only they wrote their own game engine so they contract 3rd party teams to fill in gaps.  Same as this.  This is making a giant issue out of literally nothing and pretty much every game out there does this to an extent, particularly the indie/small companies.  Especially when it comes to areas that the dev team is not proficient in.  

Exactly.

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The asset store are there to help indie companies who can't fund top level programmers. It's not like these developers didn't receive a lot of income...

No thats really not how it works.  THe asset store is there to help developers develop their games faster.  It has nothing to do with funding.  At all.  

Pretty much every game you play has some level of this incorporated into the creation process.   From indie games to AAA games.  I've been on many projects from indie to AAA and all of them incorporated a form of asset store to get the game out the door.  

The asset stores are populated by assets from all kinds of people.  From other "indie" devs to devs that have been in the industry for decades.  

Every team is different.  Every team has different strengths and weaknesses.  If the devs of this game are weak at AI, all the funding in the world won't make them able to create a good AI system.  So they took that money and spent it on a 3rd party developer that did it for them.  WHich is how the software industry works and has always worked since the long ago.

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29 minutes ago, xHowl- said:

Oops! I sincerely apologise for insulting you. 

*smooch*

And in response to your quote "valid" points (no idea why you deleted that part of your response), I'm afraid you didn't make any. As has already been pointed out by myself and others, this practice is very common in game development, despite your claims. Assets are purchased and not directly dropped into a game, but tinkered with and often re-coded altogether to achieve the desired result. This thread is non-news and you're coming off as quite angry and bitter over nothing.

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10 minutes ago, xHowl- said:

Oops! I sincerely apologise for insulting you. I suppose you're not going to comment on any of the other valid points I made then?

I'm just going to go ahead and say that I think you are Paul Phoenix, or a friend of his, and you're posting here because you are pissed off that no one from Gun or Illfonic responded to you through reddit or YouTube. Your passionate statements are very similar to his in the video that you posted and you seem to be defending his argument very strongly, also you just joined these forums today. I'm not saying that you're in the wrong, I don't know shit about video game programing and development to be honest. I don't think you're in the wrong place to get their attention either, it's pretty easy to do if you tag them in your post, but hiding behind a Sock Puppet won't help your argument one bit.

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The only reason this is a big deal is because of past performance of the devs.

Notice how there isn't even a thought that the devs wanted outside help and instead its their so bad they needed help or were too lazy to do it themselves.

The commentary wouldn't have been any different if they did it themselves and the bots were still average.

Their guilty until proven innocent with a large majority of the fandom. Even if they turn around and go nuts buffing Jason in the next couple updates. That's not going to change.

Also...bots....what were people expecting?...teabagging, micspamming and chain stunning Jason like seen in the regular game with players? 20 minute loopathrons around couches and windows?

tumblr_mq9cviIFQW1rlq5bgo1_400.gif

Fix the Jarvis bot....give them a couple different predetermined mindsets and its a fine, throwaway mode to relieve players of having to deal with the MP part of the game.

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7 minutes ago, CryptM said:

I'm just going to go ahead and say that I think you are Paul Phoenix, or a friend of his, and you're posting here because you are pissed off that no one from Gun or Illfonic responded to you through reddit or YouTube. You're passionate statements are very similar to his in the video that you posted and you seem to be defending this point very strongly, also you just joined these forums today. I'm not saying that you're in the wrong, I don't know shit about video game programing and development to be honest. I don't think you're in the wrong place to get their attention either, it's pretty easy to do if you tag them in your post, but hiding behind a Sock Puppet won't help your argument one bit.

Yeah, I suppose the other people who are also agreeing this is a bad thing are also him or even his friends. I'm not pissed off at all but I can understand why you may get that impression. The point of this thread is to get explanation from the developers because in my opinion, I don't think they should have used an AI asset pack when they've been "hard at work" and was also delayed six months. It's not the fact they didn't respond to me through reddit, it's the fact the reddit mods decided to delete my post when nothing bad was said. 

My passionate statements? Nothing is passionate about them... I'm the one who created this thread, so obviously I'm going to defend it with what I think is right. 

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So what? I'm enjoying the bots so far and I couldn't care less about where they came from. 

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1 minute ago, xHowl- said:

Yeah, I suppose the other people who are also agreeing this is a bad thing are also him or even his friends. 

Well, I really don't know Paul so it's hard to say. From watching a few of his videos I do think that he's nerdy enough to be talking to another nerd like me on a Friday the 13th forum at 9 a.m. though :P 

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1 minute ago, CryptM said:

Well, I really don't know Paul so it's hard to say. From watching a few of his videos I do think that he's nerdy enough to be talking to another nerd like me on a Friday the 13th forum at 9 a.m. though :P 

To be completely honest, the only video I have seen was the Offline bots. I couldn't have a care in the world for who he is. But, fair point lol

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26 minutes ago, kitcat said:

So what? I'm enjoying the bots so far and I couldn't care less about where they came from. 

Now you guys are complainng on an AI asset? You guys know the all the big companies use this shit right?

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1 hour ago, TestedTwice said:

Another thing that bothers me about Gun/Illfonic not hiring PROFESSIONALS is the fact that building the AI from scratch could have made these bots WAY smarter. The bots could be a TON more fun than they are now if Gun/Illfonic could put their greed/pride away for a minute and spend some of their sales revenue to hire some PROFESSIONALS.  

I don't know why other people continue to overlook this fact as well - they sold over 2 million copies of the game. At $40 per, you're looking at $80 million in revenue. I realize there's costs to recoup, and people to pay. There should be enough there to hire extra developers. 

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I hear the devs also use Bisquick to make their biscuits rather than making them from scratch!!! Oh god, the horror! It's even rumored that some of them use Uber to get to work rather than driving themselves sometimes! Lazy bastards!

"I enjoy the bots, but they used assets to help build them. They cheated me!!" Wow! What dumbass developer would use assets to their advantage?? That's some shady shit. And if you enjoy the end result, then why complain about it?

"It's plug and play" Nothing in programming is plug and play. It's a basic outline of AI and it has to be re-worked to fit the model of the game. It is also obvious that it can be tweaked. 

There are things to complain about with this game, sure. The lengths at some people will go to dream up shit to cry about astounds me. Especially since, at this point, it is only a rumor. Let's form a lynch mob over a rumor. 

Carry on with the entitled, whiny drivel. As you were.

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Right, why does this even matter? 

If they were to spend months x amount of money and time just to make an AI system that does pretty much exactly what's out there, what would be the point? 

I'm sure some other indie studios have incorporated available assets at some point. Even portions of games are outsourced for other companies to complete in tripe A games. 

It's not like they're EA or Rock star who have movie sized budgets, they sold around 2 million copies, it's not a massive amount to develop and continue to support a game long term, so adding additional costs to create AI, I can understand utilising something that's out there.  

Even so it's not like you install the assets, click a button and it's all magically done. There's work involved. 

Download a copy of something like unity 3d and some AI asset packs and try it for yourself. Seriously. 

 

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I’m not a game dev but I read enough gaming news to know that many games use existing engines and tailor them to their needs.  I also highly doubt the existing asset they may have purchased already had counselors programmed to fix cars, call police, etc.  I would happily bet anyone that even using commercially available ai requires customizations to fit a particular game, and that creating ai from scratch takes a lot longer.

Whatever.  This forum has become a parody.  The hate boners raging through some people because Jason does not play exactly how they wanted in their 40 game is insane.  Attacking the devs for using a commercial asset and tailoring it to their game?  Really?  

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Okay, i'll be the morpheus for this mind bending thread: 

What if i told you, that creating an AI takes a lot of work and time. Time which they didn't have, because there are so many problems. 

What if i told you, that they tweaked the AI assets a little, after they needed to release the Single Player at last and now with the new SP argument, they can sell more copies to hire someone that is familiar with the AI code and can fix and even make the AI better. 

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It is not that unvelievable, that this is what they did. Everybody wanted bots. They gave us bots. Maybe it was too hard to create and code everything from scratch. So as a solution we got this. It won't mean that they are done and finished with the bots, they can always work on them. For now we have Bots. It is fun. They could use some work though, but i'am happy. 

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