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Aaron

Is swing cancelling removed?

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4 hours ago, Kodiak said:

Speak for yourself. I've always done just fine and surpassed 103 by playing fair. Good players don't need to do stupid shit like 'sliding' or 'car surfing' to have a good time.

u honestly believe the meta will always come from the game's how to play?

there is no way ur good at this game

 

6 hours ago, Tiffany said:

The answer to your question: Yes.

CoolRegularBluefintuna-max-1mb.gif

what happened to amanda bynes :(

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2 hours ago, Kodiak said:

 Good players don't need to do stupid shit like 'sliding' or 'car surfing' to have a good time.

I don't think having a good time is high on their list of priorities with this game.

Even though I think car surfing as Jason is a blast!! Ever get a jump scare from 4 people at the same time?

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1 hour ago, Aaron said:

u honestly believe the meta will always come from the game's how to play?

there is no way ur good at this game

I don't play this 'meta' rubbish people keep talking about. I play how I enjoy playing. If you don't think I'm good, then perhaps you'll take it from other forum members like @AldermachXI who actually have played with me. Then again, it doesn't really matter what you think of me anyway.

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1 hour ago, Aaron said:

u honestly believe the meta will always come from the game's how to play?

there is no way ur good at this game

Hey  leave @Kodiak alone will you 

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10 hours ago, Aaron said:

u honestly believe the meta will always come from the game's how to play?

there is no way ur good at this game

 

what happened to amanda bynes :(

Using exploits isn't meta. It's just using exploits.

Kodiak is definitely a solid player. Plays the objective well and uses teamwork and coordination to confuse Jason.

Kodiak and I have killed Jason together. He's pretty damn good at the game. Just because most of us don't rely on exploits to carry us through the game doesn't mean we're not still doing well.

Even these annoying "swing cancelling" counselors are easy to kill eventually because all they try to do is run away with counselors who can't repair for shit. So late game, when they're the only ones left, they're screwed.

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On 23/12/2017 at 9:25 AM, Moe9999633 said:

Hey  leave @Kodiak alone will you 

sorry :(

 

On 23/12/2017 at 6:23 PM, AldermachXI said:

Using exploits isn't meta. It's just using exploits.

Kodiak is definitely a solid player. Plays the objective well and uses teamwork and coordination to confuse Jason.

Kodiak and I have killed Jason together. He's pretty damn good at the game. Just because most of us don't rely on exploits to carry us through the game doesn't mean we're not still doing well.

Even these annoying "swing cancelling" counselors are easy to kill eventually because all they try to do is run away with counselors who can't repair for shit. So late game, when they're the only ones left, they're screwed.

1

bruh...do you know what exploit means?

my point is in every game following it's "how to play" won't make you good

the best players always follow some other meta that the devs never even thought of

 

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18 hours ago, AldermachXI said:

Even these annoying "swing cancelling" counselors are easy to kill eventually because all they try to do is run away with counselors who can't repair for shit. So late game, when they're the only ones left, they're screwed.

Don't lump us all into useless players just because we made use of animation cancelling. It was a completely legitimate tactic and allowed for mind games between Jason and counselors (since Jason could anim cancel just the same). Now combat is as basic and watered down as can be. 

I'm under the impression the devs didn't remove this ability because they actually wanted cancelling out of the game. They removed it to disable the Sliding exploit, but if what I've read is true and it is still possible to do somehow, then it makes this change a total waste.

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Is this another thread about the removal of this exploit? Saying that sliding, swing cancelling (or feinting as others have tried to call it), and the like are advanced tactics is a joke. How is it a skill to manipulate the controls in such a manner as to perform in game actions that simply weren’t meant to be. It is a skill to time a counselor/Jason’s swing and counter. “Faking” a swing is entirely unnecessary and as others have said just sounds like exploitation of the game mechanics. 

That’s like saying body blocking to install parts involved skill because it was something some people knew how to do while others didn’t. Some aspects of the game reside in skillful execution while others are a matter of experience.

Just because some one figured out how to exploit map areas, Packanack ring a bell? Does that make them skilled for such tactics, obviously the answer is no. It all falls into the same category. It’s exploitation of bad mechanics or issues with the game. 

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2 hours ago, Tommy86 said:

Don't lump us all into useless players just because we made use of animation cancelling. It was a completely legitimate tactic and allowed for mind games between Jason and counselors (since Jason could anim cancel just the same). Now combat is as basic and watered down as can be.

lol

No.

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5 minutes ago, Tommy86 said:

Great answer.

The entire thread is full of great answers. Your attempt at rationalizing is just bullshit.

Manipulation of controls to create an unintended action is an exploit. Plain and simple. You're smart enough to put that together. Or so I thought.

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6 minutes ago, AldermachXI said:

The entire thread is full of great answers. Your attempt at rationalizing is just bullshit.

Manipulation of controls to create an unintended action is an exploit. Plain and simple. You're smart enough to put that together. Or so I thought.

Have you never played a fighting game in your entire life? Or any other game with combat for that matter? This is an extremely basic concept to grasp. You interrupt one animation with another, providing it's possible, and that's literally all there is to it. Calling it an exploit is not only close-minded, but definitively wrong. 

Calling it bullshit is just plain rude. 

EDIT: You do realise I'm not talking about Sliding right? 

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3 minutes ago, Tommy86 said:

Have you never played a fighting game in your entire life? Or any other game with combat for that matter? This is an extremely basic concept to grasp. You interrupt one animation with another, providing it's possible, and that's literally all there is to it. Calling it an exploit is not only close-minded, but definitively wrong. 

Calling it bullshit is just plain rude. 

EDIT: You do realise I'm not talking about Sliding right? 

I play a lot of fighting games. I have my whole life. I was a regional SFIV champion. Which is exactly why I understand that in fighting games, cancelling frames is part of the INTENDED mechanics.

That's not the case here though. The devs clearly didn't intend to have it there, hence the removal. Otherwise "faking" would have been a GIVEN mechanic, like dodge is.

Again...attempt to rationalize it all you want. It's still bullshit and gone for a good reason. I guess you'll have to learn how to play properly.

 

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13 minutes ago, Tommy86 said:

Have you never played a fighting game in your entire life? Or any other game with combat for that matter? This is an extremely basic concept to grasp. You interrupt one animation with another, providing it's possible, and that's literally all there is to it. Calling it an exploit is not only close-minded, but definitively wrong. 

Calling it bullshit is just plain rude. 

EDIT: You do realise I'm not talking about Sliding right? 

This isn’t a fighting game with skilled combatants.   It’s a horror game where most of these counselors were never in a physical fight in their lives.  

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10 minutes ago, AldermachXI said:

I play a lot of fighting games. I have my whole life. I was a regional SFIV champion. Which is exactly why I understand that in fighting games, cancelling frames is part of the INTENDED mechanics.

That's not the case here though. The devs clearly didn't intend to have it there, hence the removal. Otherwise "faking" would have been a GIVEN mechanic, like dodge is.

Again...attempt to rationalize it all you want. It's still bullshit and gone for a good reason. I guess you'll have to learn how to play properly.

 

I don't need to learn how to play "properly" AKA how others think I should play. I really don't care about moral stances on gameplay. I have a good understanding of how this game works and this change doesn't impact my success rate. But it does make gameplay more primitive, and dumbs it down to something so binary that it doesn't even allow feinting attacks.

Careful with how you interpret developer intentions. As I said before, it is fairly obvious this ability was removed to counter the Sliding exploit, not a deliberate attempt to counter animation cancelling itself. Otherwise it would've no doubt been removed much earlier, since it existed for a very long time. Sliding, on the other hand, has been an unresolved thorn in their side, especially since people were macroing it to a button which makes it extremely broken.

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22 minutes ago, Tommy86 said:

I don't need to learn how to play "properly" AKA how others think I should play. I really don't care about moral stances on gameplay. I have a good understanding of how this game works and this change doesn't impact my success rate. But it does make gameplay more primitive, and dumbs it down to something so binary that it doesn't even allow feinting attacks.

Careful with how you interpret developer intentions. As I said before, it is fairly obvious this ability was removed to counter the Sliding exploit, not a deliberate attempt to counter animation cancelling itself. Otherwise it would've no doubt been removed much earlier, since it existed for a very long time. Sliding, on the other hand, has been an unresolved thorn in their side, especially since people were macroing it to a button which makes it extremely broken.

lol...you obviously haven't been around long enough to know how these devs operate.

Anyways, I'm done with this conversation. It's gone. Get over it.

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2 minutes ago, AldermachXI said:

lol...you obviously haven't been around long enough to know how these devs operate.

Anyways, I'm done with this conversation. It's gone. Get over it.

Feel free to check my profile. I've been around long enough, and far longer before I was even a member.

Animation cancelling in games is not something that's a by-product. It's either intentionally possible, or it's not. They've been trying to combat exploits for a while now, starting with blockswinging which actually broke Jason's combat stance (delay on attack after block). Now they've tried to remove Sliding by removing the ability to cancel. You can think what you like but it's clear to me that is the reason for this change.

There is nothing for me to get over here. I don't hold grudges, I don't care. I'm just trying to open people's minds because this is the first community I've been part of that's actually averse to any kind of deeper gameplay.

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I dont see why we are beating around a dead bush, if its gone its gone. Who cares, you shouldn't even try to fight jason anyways since he is practically a killing machine. 

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1 hour ago, Gummybish said:

Who cares, you shouldn't even try to fight jason anyways since he is practically a killing machine

No he's not. Right now he's a generic video game character that happens to look like Jason. 

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2 minutes ago, WashingtonJones said:

No he's not. Right now he's a generic video game character that happens to look like Jason. 

Which is why I really do not care about this exploitation being removed lol. Jason needs to be more feared. 

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The need for this so-called mechanic doesn’t exist. 

As a quick player, Jason was killed 9 times since this patch.  I was Level 101 and had 0 kills before this patch as a QPer.

Fighting and killing Jason has recently been something random QPers even without mics now try to do on a regular basis.  This was only rarely attempted before, with this animation cancelling.  

No one in QP has been asking about animation canceling as we constantly knock Jason on his ass and throw dance parties over his flattened body. 

This seems to be a very niche “problem”.

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2 hours ago, Tommy86 said:

I don't need to learn how to play "properly" AKA how others think I should play. I really don't care about moral stances on gameplay. I have a good understanding of how this game works and this change doesn't impact my success rate. But it does make gameplay more primitive, and dumbs it down to something so binary that it doesn't even allow feinting attacks.

Careful with how you interpret developer intentions. As I said before, it is fairly obvious this ability was removed to counter the Sliding exploit, not a deliberate attempt to counter animation cancelling itself. Otherwise it would've no doubt been removed much earlier, since it existed for a very long time. Sliding, on the other hand, has been an unresolved thorn in their side, especially since people were macroing it to a button which makes it extremely broken.

Woah, easy there, pal. It's all well and good to make your case on how canceling animations is not an exploit, but saying the removal of this "feature" dumbs down the game sounds like a bit of an overstatement to me.

Sure, a game without gameplay depth can become boring very quickly, but I'd say that complexity just for the sake of complexity isn't the way to go either. The game already can be very fun as it is, all it needs is some balance adjustments and some glitch fixing, and even if that's not enough, there are quite a few aspects aside from combat the devs could look into in order to expand how the game currently plays.

I couldn't dream of denying that combat in this game is every bit as simplistic as you accuse it to be, but then again, do we really need an elaborate combat system in a Friday the 13th game? I know we all feel special and that we deserve to be that one counselor that gives Jason a run for his money, but to him we're just another blood splatter on his machete. He's got other people to kill too, y'know.

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12 hours ago, AldermachXI said:

I play a lot of fighting games. I have my whole life. I was a regional SFIV champion. Which is exactly why I understand that in fighting games, cancelling frames is part of the INTENDED mechanics.

That's not the case here though. The devs clearly didn't intend to have it there, hence the removal. Otherwise "faking" would have been a GIVEN mechanic, like dodge is.

Again...attempt to rationalize it all you want. It's still bullshit and gone for a good reason. I guess you'll have to learn how to play properly.

 

Wait...so if you are familiar with the combat mechanics of other games, what is your personal stance on swing cancelling? That's the most important part to consider. Every reply from you continues to peddle the developer's agenda when you call it an exploit. You are basing your arguments off of the definition of exploitation and the authoritarian ruling on the decision, without viewing the practicality of it in gameplay. To me, that does not justify its removal. Just because the devs have the power to remove gameplay features, doesn't make them always in the right (especially when it could have been collateral damage to Sliding, which is a game-breaking exploit). They are supposed to be improving the game. While it may not mean anything to one person, swing cancelling was valuable when you knew how to use it.

So how did it help combat characters? Swing cancelling was a mind-game, it was a spacing technique, and it could have been used to save a durability strike on a stunned Jason or an exposed counselor (as @Aaron noted on page 1). What does this mean? For starters, it showed the Jason player that his prey was someone who could potentially cause him trouble. It could have made Jason wary about attacking head on, thus making him cautious. Which attack could be a real attack? Which attack could be a feint? The question would remain, and he would have to take advantage of spacing and attacks of his own.

When trying to open up space with swing cancelling, Jason could have followed a similar mindset to the first technique: Spacing and offensive measures for himself. Creating space with a swing cancel countered the reaction time of a Jason player, no different than how Swift Attacker affects Jason's reaction time to a swing. Jason could have countered with knives, intentional misses with grabs / weapon strikes, restarting an encounter by utilizing abilities, and cutting the power to increase fear and slow stamina regeneration. This would have made it so as long as Jason was persistent, he could expect a greater chance for a committed swing rather than a swing cancel. Human beings make errors. Given enough effort, the counselor would be dealt with by continuously wearing them out with damage and proper distance. You said it yourself:

On 12/23/2017 at 1:23 PM, AldermachXI said:

Even these annoying "swing cancelling" counselors are easy to kill eventually because all they try to do is run away with counselors who can't repair for shit. So late game, when they're the only ones left, they're screwed.

We were just dead men walking anyway. Jason can have his win, but I'll be damned if I'm not going down without a fight. I like to play as the dramatic distractor because I am confident enough with my gameplay knowledge and experience to handle Jason, no matter who I am or where I am. It's a little selfish, but I want Jason all to my self. If he leaves, I repair objectives. If he comes back, I run, evade, and fight when I can. I cherish the combat because when I make a mistake, it's over. Jason wins. Then again, it's the journey that counts, right? It's about assessing your life and asking yourself: was it worth it? The answer sets the mood for closure to take place.

When it comes to durability, every swing counts. Especially when you have low luck or have something valuable like the baseball bat or the axe. Stopping a swing could have prevented a wasted point, or worse: injury to a fellow player. The major downfall to swing cancelling was that it was a process required to initiate another exploit, one that was far more game-breaking: sliding. This technique makes it almost impossible to catch a player. 

 

Just because they have the power to remove it, doesn't mean they should have (especially when it could have been collateral damage to Sliding, which is a game-breaking exploit). @Tommy86 mentioned methods of other mind games, but it will never be the same as swing cancelling:

On 12/22/2017 at 8:01 PM, Tommy86 said:

You can do the same thing without any swing cancel, just keep Jason behind you at a distance where he is always just outside grab or swing range, and won't be tempted to use a Shift. You can keep him wary of an attack just the same by quickly entering combat stance, then back to jogging, and nothing else. Or 360 degree turns. It's simply a mind game.

Swing cancelling was an alternative method to the techniques written above. It could draw in Jason even more, thus making you his prime target in a pursuit. It could make space by countering the reaction time of Jason (much like swift attack does), and it saved you from wasting a weapon swing. Hunt the prey, but be wary of becoming the hunted. Even in death, I could leave this plane of existence knowing that I gave someone a worthy challenge in combat. Human beings are fallible, but the trick is to learn from the trials and tribulations of gameplay. It's the only way to get better.

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The fact that people are this pissed off about one exploitation getting removed is like ... Do you realize that it is just a game at the end of the day? 

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