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Confused Counsellor

Lets talk about the item increase

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12 minutes ago, Tommy86 said:

With friends it's usually a good time, at least for me, despite the issues. But then anything could be a good time with the right company. Doesn't mean the game isn't facing some real problems right now, even ones that aren't balance-related. It becomes most evident when I'm not playing with friends, and in a more competitive mindset.

Agreed, new Jasons are doomed for 0/8 or 1/8 at best, from what I've seen lately. They do simply have zero chance at having a good match. Not that they should get kills just handed to them, not at all. But the problem is that they likely don't even know what they're doing wrong, and can't learn from their mistakes or improve at a steady rate (or at all) as a result. There's solutions to this but that's another discussion.

I agree with all of the above. 

Though sometimes I see even semipros strugling to get a single kill. Hell, even I was worried a little while ago. 10 minutes in, 0 kills and a gazilliion stuns. Thankfully most pocketknives got used so I managed to get atleast a few kills so I wasnt totally humiliated :D

 

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27 minutes ago, lasse_hei said:

I agree with all of the above. 

Though sometimes I see even semipros strugling to get a single kill. Hell, even I was worried a little while ago. 10 minutes in, 0 kills and a gazilliion stuns. Thankfully most pocketknives got used so I managed to get atleast a few kills so I wasnt totally humiliated :D

 

No doubt even good players face difficulties as Jason. Even the best players I know struggle at times because Jason simply isn't equipped to deal with group pressure. He has nothing in his toolset to directly counter it. 

Like I explained in my unfortunately long post about counselors contesting the 4-seater, there's some situations where you have very limited options. One way or the other, you're going to get beat up, even if playing perfectly. If you're up against a team that's smart enough to simply have 2 objectives going at once, you are already forced into hard decisions. Against high level teams, the balance very obviously favours counselors. No amount of "git gud" will change that in areas where a Jason player actually can't improve.

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Yeah. People don't want to play as Jason. I usually play private matches with good players and the location of objectives will make or break most people. Car and phone in the same vacinity? Cool. 3 objectives spread out? Have fun with your 3/8 match (if you're lucky).

Again qp may be a bit different. But still pretty easy to survive in general.

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7 hours ago, slvrs said:

I dont understand the window argument. You already are damaged by broken Windows.

Look my last match as Jason. I was chasing Tiffany who desperately jump through a broken window. As I enter in the cabin, she jump through again and got injured, making my job easy. Why fix something doesnt need to be fixed?

Broken Windows should avoid exploit, nor surviving tactics. If so, all I need to do as Jason is broken all windows and wait. I never ever had trouble with someone get in / out windows as I had several times circling sofas and tales. 

Jason can't break windows while a counselor is moving though them, and many times there's an invisible barrier preventing Jason from getting close to the window while they move or jump through them

Do you remember playing the game before the window change? What the developers did was break a mechanic in order to dumb the game down for the casual player who didn't realize how to enter combat stance in order to break an open vertical window.  

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Just played a match on Packanack that spawned in 9 Pocket Knives total. 10 if you include the Pocket Knife that Tommy Jarvis spawns with.

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I just want to contribute a small tidbit here that I found to be funny-yet-crazy.

The other night, I was playing offline bots (the only way I will have any success as Jason) on Crystal Lake small and 6 different counselors knifed me. I laughed, but that seemed wild to me. 

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Just played a game as Jason where i thought I'd test things out. One guy managed to aquire 5 pocket knives alone. Everyone else also managed to have them. I'm sorry but that is complete bullshit.

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Just gonna chip in my recent experiences since the newest patch.

4 words: Jason is not fun. In nearly every game I've played until the most recent patches, I've been able to kill 8/8 as Jason a lot of the time. It wasn't too easy but it wasn't too difficult either. I've played probably about 12 games as a counselor tonight and since the new update that brought first aid sprays, pocket knives and shotguns to campfires, it's been far too easy to give Jason an ass kicking. You can even fight him 1 vs 1 and get his mask off with no problems and you can easily get two knives and a first aid spray from 1 or 2 camps.

I don't feel like Jason is any kind of threat to me anymore. When I played Jason about 15 minutes ago, the game was just not fun. Every player I grabbed had at least one knife and pretty much every counselor I hacked with my pitchfork just popped their spray and ran off. I hit various counselors in a group who were attacking me with about 9 throwing knives and at the end of it, they all healed back to full again. Combat stance is really sluggish and unresponsive for Jason so I can't get my guard up in a quick enough time to block an incoming melee attack.

This group is the closest anyone has ever come to killing me as Jason. They had my mask from the group attack fiasco and a car fixed, even after 3 traps on it. Police got called as well because they disarmed my trap with one of their many many pocket knives. A few minutes later and Tommy turns up with a sweater-wearing Jenny, complete with baseball bat and machete and all. I was almost screwed until I morphed out and killed a couple of stragglers whilst Tommy and sweater Jenny hunted for me. They drove around in the car trying to bait me into stopping it, but I overheard them talking about it when they drove past me and I was using stalk by a cabin wall. In the end, there were only 3 players left - Tommy, Jenny and a Buggzy. A little while later and they caught up with me. I knew what they were trying to do so I tried to get some distance to get some extra throwing knives, but Buggzy got a lucky shot with a shotgun and they all came running over to me. They messed up their timing a bit though as I immediately shifted mere miliseconds before they activated the sweater; Jenny was even saying the words. After the screwed up the sweater, I killed all but Jenny and wound up with 6/8.

It wasn't a fun experience, the odds are absolutely in the counselors favor. Jason is hardly any kind of threat anymore and I preferred him much more before the grab range nerf and the update that's added guns and small items to campfires. He can't really do much against a group of counselors that are attacking him as combat stance is just inferior for the job; Jason needs more melee attack diversity. When you're surrounded by counselors, he needs to be the one who's controlling the fight, not the counselors who are just wailing on him with dozens of axes and machetes. I think possibly Gun should think about implementing a knockback mechanic for Jason where he can knock counselors on to the ground if they're all ganging up on him.

All of this comes from me playing Savini Jason and Fox. 

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7 minutes ago, Kodiak said:

Just gonna chip in my recent experiences since the newest patch.

4 words: Jason is not fun. In nearly every game I've played ...

I'm going to say @Kodiak, your post holds a lot of gravity for me. I have not yet had the opportunity to drop into quick play or private. I'll be interested to see if I am as disappointed in the new experience as you are.

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8 minutes ago, NthnButAGoodTime said:

I'm going to say @Kodiak, your post holds a lot of gravity for me. I have not yet had the opportunity to drop into quick play or private. I'll be interested to see if I am as disappointed in the new experience as you are.

It's a shame because I'm the kind of guy who simply adapts to new changes without kicking up a fuss about things and usually this kinda stuff doesn't bother me. When a very experienced player starts getting bullied by overpowered counselors though, it's a clear sign that these new updates are not right from a balance perspective. Even the mighty 'overpowered pay to win' Savini Jason doesn't have much in terms of defense against these new changes. 

I think for the time being I'm going to go back to Battlefront 2. I was looking forward to getting the new kills that they've just brought out for levels 101+, but I don't really want to play counselors only. Getting Jason is one of the best things about this game and I actually don't want to play him again in his current state.

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Don't worry guys. Next update will bring the power back to Jason by adding 5 more pocket knives, 5 more shotguns and 5 more med sprays to each map.

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@Kodiak Thanks for posting, I don't think anyone can doubt your experience here so it carries weight. It's exactly what I've been saying for a long time, Jason has nothing in his toolset to directly counter group pressure. It simply doesn't exist, the only way to deal with groups is to adopt a defensive playstyle as Jason and focus on whiff baiting and punishing with raw weapon swings. Combat stance is garbage outside of 1v1, it simply makes Jason more vulnerable. Even Shift needs to be used with caution against groups as they can hit you out of it.

Best Jasons for these situations IMO are Part 3 and 4, who also have the highly valuable +Weapon Strength stat, bonus agility with Can Run, and their weapons have much better speed and reliability than Savini's. Having said all that, the abundance of med sprays makes countering groups difficult even when playing perfectly, as you have found. It just goes on and on, and you take a beating sometimes no matter what eg. Counselors contesting a car, as I explained on the previous page.

Having played enough online matches since the recent patch, I can confidently say the item increase was a bad decision made even worse by Jason's staggering lack of offence particularly against good teams.

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1 hour ago, Kodiak said:

Snip

Jason was in trouble before any changes were done to him. There is just no way to please everyone in this game simply because of the way its designed. Lets say we don't have a group of people hunting Jason. Lets say we have a bunch of small groups split pushing objectives. There is no way to stop all of them no matter if he had massive buffs or not.

The closest they have gotten to fixing this is having massively Jason sided map Jarvis House. I'm sure the new map coming out will be massively Jason sided as well considering what we know already.

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Before this patch, Jason needed a fix to his melee hit detection and at least a wider grab cone around him, if not that plus a grab range somewhere between pre-nerf and current range. Now, he needs both those and a rebalancing of items.

The problem is that adding all these toys has just made the counselor pain necessary to rebalance Jason that much greater. Instead of making him connect properly when slashing and catch a few more close grabs, which would have generated a ton of salt, now those have to be coupled with fewer key items (and/or nerfs to how they work, like doing away with Medic's 2x heals and making knives only able to be carried one at a time)...THAT'S going to make them even saltier.

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2 hours ago, Kodiak said:

Just gonna chip in my recent experiences since the newest patch.

4 words: Jason is not fun. In nearly every game I've played until the most recent patches, I've been able to kill 8/8 as Jason a lot of the time. It wasn't too easy but it wasn't too difficult either. I've played probably about 12 games as a counselor tonight and since the new update that brought first aid sprays, pocket knives and shotguns to campfires, it's been far too easy to give Jason an ass kicking. You can even fight him 1 vs 1 and get his mask off with no problems and you can easily get two knives and a first aid spray from 1 or 2 camps.

I don't feel like Jason is any kind of threat to me anymore. When I played Jason about 15 minutes ago, the game was just not fun. Every player I grabbed had at least one knife and pretty much every counselor I hacked with my pitchfork just popped their spray and ran off. I hit various counselors in a group who were attacking me with about 9 throwing knives and at the end of it, they all healed back to full again. Combat stance is really sluggish and unresponsive for Jason so I can't get my guard up in a quick enough time to block an incoming melee attack.

This group is the closest anyone has ever come to killing me as Jason. They had my mask from the group attack fiasco and a car fixed, even after 3 traps on it. Police got called as well because they disarmed my trap with one of their many many pocket knives. A few minutes later and Tommy turns up with a sweater-wearing Jenny, complete with baseball bat and machete and all. I was almost screwed until I morphed out and killed a couple of stragglers whilst Tommy and sweater Jenny hunted for me. They drove around in the car trying to bait me into stopping it, but I overheard them talking about it when they drove past me and I was using stalk by a cabin wall. In the end, there were only 3 players left - Tommy, Jenny and a Buggzy. A little while later and they caught up with me. I knew what they were trying to do so I tried to get some distance to get some extra throwing knives, but Buggzy got a lucky shot with a shotgun and they all came running over to me. They messed up their timing a bit though as I immediately shifted mere miliseconds before they activated the sweater; Jenny was even saying the words. After the screwed up the sweater, I killed all but Jenny and wound up with 6/8.

It wasn't a fun experience, the odds are absolutely in the counselors favor. Jason is hardly any kind of threat anymore and I preferred him much more before the grab range nerf and the update that's added guns and small items to campfires. He can't really do much against a group of counselors that are attacking him as combat stance is just inferior for the job; Jason needs more melee attack diversity. When you're surrounded by counselors, he needs to be the one who's controlling the fight, not the counselors who are just wailing on him with dozens of axes and machetes. I think possibly Gun should think about implementing a knockback mechanic for Jason where he can knock counselors on to the ground if they're all ganging up on him.

All of this comes from me playing Savini Jason and Fox. 

Totally agree @Kodiak Jason is just a Punching bag for the counselors now, especially now that Gun have had the " brilliant " idea to add more pocket knives, Med sprays and TWO more shotguns to find at campsites.

Haven't had the chance to play a multiplayer match but after reading what you had to say, no way am I touching Quick play until they fix Jason.

Which should be "Coming Never".

 

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No word of a lie, in the match I just finished as a councelor I found three pocket knives in the lodge I spawned in. Another outside on a table and med sprays everywhere..

This is absolutely ridiculous 😣

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18 minutes ago, Rev_Bartholomew said:

Totally agree @Kodiak Jason is just a Punching bag for the counselors now, especially now that Gun have had the " brilliant " idea to add more pocket knives, Med sprays and TWO more shotguns to find at campsites.

Haven't had the chance to play a multiplayer match but after reading what you had to say, no way am I touching Quick play until they fix Jason.

Which should be "Coming Never".

 

Don't worry, they nerfed the already useless Heavy Hitter. See, they care!

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53 minutes ago, Jawbone said:

Jason was in trouble before any changes were done to him. There is just no way to please everyone in this game simply because of the way its designed. Lets say we don't have a group of people hunting Jason. Lets say we have a bunch of small groups split pushing objectives. There is no way to stop all of them no matter if he had massive buffs or not..

This is true, but changes like this simply make matters worse. The change in traps also made objective defense worse, as even though I can still double-trap, I can't block off the phone like I used to via multi-trapping. It was the #1 way to slow down counselor interaction with objectives, exactly to counter split pushing since counselors will wait until you're elsewhere and tank during cooldown. The change in windows was a big one as well, and continues to screw up Jason's pressure. Grab range nerf I am mostly fine with / have adapted to, but the grab design itself is prone to obnoxious close range issues.

53 minutes ago, Jawbone said:

The closest they have gotten to fixing this is having massively Jason sided map Jarvis House. I'm sure the new map coming out will be massively Jason sided as well considering what we know already.

I don't know if I'd call it massively Jason sided. I've played that map many times without running into Jason even once. It's got so much dead space that activity is typically limited to one area since not many players are inclined to travel on it. I find players usually rush the phone on that map, and that's where Jason sticks around. With enough group pressure, you get the cops called anyway. Other than that the map is as boring as it gets, mainly a lot of jogging around and a lack of interaction with other counselors and Jason until he decides to tunnel. 

I firmly believe there are better ways to make Jason more capable to deal with coordinated teams and group combat, rather than more absurdly large maps with ridiculous item dispersion. But it's a discussion which probably deserves its own thread.

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1 minute ago, Tommy86 said:

I don't know if I'd call it massively Jason sided. I've played that map many times without running into Jason even once. It's got so much dead space that activity is typically limited to one area since not many players are inclined to travel on it. I find players usually rush the phone on that map, and that's where Jason sticks around. With enough group pressure, you get the cops called anyway. Other than that the map is as boring as it gets, mainly a lot of jogging around and a lack of interaction with others counselors and Jason until he decides to tunnel.

Yeah, but you're never going to get group pressure unless playing with friends. Randoms never work together.

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1 minute ago, MichaelMemers said:

Yeah, but you're never going to get group pressure unless playing with friends. Randoms never work together.

Also true to an extent, but in that case the map doesn't even matter. Put low level randoms on Packanack Small and they will still get little done.

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4 minutes ago, Tommy86 said:

Also true to an extent, but in that case the map doesn't even matter. Put low level randoms on Packanack Small and they will still get little done.

Low levels sure, but even high level randoms won't get anything done on Jarvis House because everything is usually in one corner of the map with nowhere to run.

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15 minutes ago, Tommy86 said:

I don't know if I'd call it massively Jason sided. I've played that map many times without running into Jason even once. It's got so much dead space that activity is typically limited to one area since not many players are inclined to travel on it. I find players usually rush the phone on that map, and that's where Jason sticks around. With enough group pressure, you get the cops called anyway. Other than that the map is as boring as it gets, mainly a lot of jogging around and a lack of interaction with other counselors and Jason until he decides to tunnel. 

I firmly believe there are better ways to make Jason more capable to deal with coordinated teams and group combat, rather than more absurdly large maps with ridiculous item dispersion. But it's a discussion which probably deserves its own thread.

Thats how people want it though. No one wants counselors to be able to get anything done or pose any threat to them which is why so many people are in love with the offline bots. The next map from what we have seen in now removed videos looks Jason sided.

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