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Mr. Blonde

The Game Favors Counselors EVEN More This Patch

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4 hours ago, TimmyJarvis said:

And I also agree with you to an extent as well.  Making it too easy would be stupid and balance is necessary.  But if they are trying to avoid a dwindling player base, they should start with changes that help 7/8 instead of 1/8, and balance from there.  Its just math.     

Speaking of "just math," the 7/8 being able to have any kind of game at all is entirely dependent on 1/8 wanting to play Jason. 

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20 hours ago, MichaelMemers said:

This will intensify. I have yet to lose a single counselor since the update where they nerfed Jason's grab and changed many other aspects of the balance. This is because the average player is terrible and does not cooperate with others. Counselors bullying Jason is something that only happens when the lobby is full of coordinated level 101s playing meta characters. I think the devs would rather balance the game around the average match than high-end play.

I really wipe out players in quick play. No mics and no cooperation. Even with the item increase. But playing Jason versus 101 and up crowd killing everyone is a challenge. If I kill half the lobby I'm doing well because they are coordinating and working as a team.

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9 hours ago, tyrant666 said:

Well if shotguns are randomly spawning at all the camp sites now. The only logic I can think of behind that is they plan on buffing Jason quite a bit in the 'balance' update next month and they know its going to cause a tidalwave of backlash from you guessed it...counselor players. The pendelum swings back the other way like during the beta Jason days.

Unfortunately the pendulum swinging is the only thing I see coming from this team.  They can't seem to think outside the box, or evolve with the playerbase as they continue to advance the gameplay. They just want to keep the game as originally designed despite all the actual issues with its design, which can never be solved by simply buffing/nerfing one side or the other. Otherwise it will always negatively impact new players and turn them away, which is the #1 thing you don't want.

The way I see it, there's 3 options in moving forward with balance updates favouring Jason -

1. Buff Jason while keeping counselors and gameplay the same. Doesn't solve difficulty for new counselor players who are sent directly to spectate mode, or difficulty for uncoordinated lobbies which results in frustrating matches.

2. Nerf counselors to the point where skilled teams are as helpless as new ones. Some people have the idea that doing this would bring the "Fear" of Jason back, but realistically, it will simply create frustration as a removal of abilities often does. New players won't be able to progress in a meaningful way, high levels will just drop the game.

3. Make changes in-game to provide clear focus and strong push towards teamwork which is the most enjoyable element of the game. By bringing new lobbies closer to skilled ones by guiding them towards coordination, Jason can be more accurately balanced to remain a challenge against high levels, but still provide room for new players to progress in the right direction. 

Number 3 is obviously my pick. Unless the idea of solo play is removed, the game is always going to be sitting on the fence between 1v7 and 1v1 x7 to account for those who don't know better than to try and survive on their own. Which makes it all too easy for skilled teams since Jason isn't definitively balanced for a true 1v7 and has some glaring weaknesses in that regard. 

Other than that, Jason's gameplay itself is anything but fluid and is prone to execution problems, and any amount of buffs to compensate for that isn't going to help. Because unless fundamental character control issues are resolved, he will always remain frustrating to play.

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29 minutes ago, Tommy86 said:

Unfortunately the pendulum swinging is the only thing I see coming from this team.  They can't seem to think outside the box, or evolve with the playerbase as they continue to advance the gameplay. They just want to keep the game as originally designed despite all the actual issues with its design, which can never be solved by simply buffing/nerfing one side or the other. Otherwise it will always negatively impact new players and turn them away, which is the #1 thing you don't want.

The way I see it, there's 3 options in moving forward with balance updates favouring Jason -

1. Buff Jason while keeping counselors and gameplay the same. Doesn't solve difficulty for new counselor players who are sent directly to spectate mode, or difficulty for uncoordinated lobbies which results in frustrating matches.

2. Nerf counselors to the point where skilled teams are as helpless as new ones. Some people have the idea that doing this would bring the "Fear" of Jason back, but realistically, it will simply create frustration as a removal of abilities often does. New players won't be able to progress in a meaningful way, high levels will just drop the game.

3. Make changes in-game to provide clear focus and strong push towards teamwork which is the most enjoyable element of the game. By bringing new lobbies closer to those of skilled ones by helping them coordinate, Jason can be more accurately balanced to remain a challenge against high levels, but still provide room for new players to progress in the right direction. 

Number 3 is obviously my pick. Unless the idea of solo play is removed, the game is always going to be sitting on the fence between 1v7 and 1v1 x7 to account for those who don't know better than to try and survive on their own. Which makes it all too easy for skilled teams since Jason isn't definitively balanced for a true 1v7 and has some glaring weaknesses in that regard. 

Other than that, Jason's gameplay itself is anything but fluid and is prone to execution problems, and any amount of buffs to compensate for that isn't going to help. Because unless fundamental character control issues are resolved, he will always remain frustrating to play.

Fair points. Need to fix the mechanics for sure. Can't grab. Can't swing. Traps don't work as well as they did. Just need to clean him up. And yes 7 v 1 is better than no mics no communication matches in qp.

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6 hours ago, Ste_Wolf said:

They increased those? Bloody hell! *Eye roll*

I dont mind the increase in shotguns. I mean I dont like it either (its kind of ridiculous) but shotguns don't intimidate me as Jason since they are single use and not a guaranteed hit.

The increase in knives bothers me more. I wish they just removed a couple knives from drawers and scattered them at campsites. Even though they only added 1 - 3 (I assume) its a bit much

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I have found even before the patch that people complaining about knives and shot guns are not playing the game right. I go in knowing that the counslers are armed and wanting to play wack a Jason. so in the first few minutes of the match I do scare attack and get them to waste their supplies. Then they are running around trying to do objectives and replenish the supplies I just made them waste. seriously when a match is 2 min in and they waste the shotgun I laugh. 

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7 hours ago, Tommy86 said:

3. Make changes in-game to provide clear focus and strong push towards teamwork which is the most enjoyable element of the game. By bringing new lobbies closer to skilled ones by guiding them towards coordination, Jason can be more accurately balanced to remain a challenge against high levels, but still provide room for new players to progress in the right direction. 

I agree with you. Teamwork should be a strength of the 7, rather than these buffs that compensate for the severe lack of it in QP. But how do you go about it?  They added item markers. But I regularly see repair characters ignoring them. Swinging the pendulum back towards Jason is 1 way of 'forcing' co-operation but it's not enough.

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12 minutes ago, Confused Counsellor said:

I agree with you. Teamwork should be a strength of the 7, rather than these buffs that compensate for the severe lack of it in QP. But how do you go about it? .

IMO, they should make objectives worth more XP for repairing and defending, and make XP more valuable. Leveling kind of becomes unimportant if your only real reward is a different color t-shirt.

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Found a shotgun, med spray, and two pocket knives at my first campsite I looted.

Let's just take a moment and pray for our favorite serial killer..

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1 hour ago, Confused Counsellor said:

I agree with you. Teamwork should be a strength of the 7, rather than these buffs that compensate for the severe lack of it in QP. But how do you go about it?  They added item markers. But I regularly see repair characters ignoring them. Swinging the pendulum back towards Jason is 1 way of 'forcing' co-operation but it's not enough.

I agree it certainly isn't enough to simply buff Jason to a point where solo counselors simply have no chance. That won't fix anything, it will just make new players drop the game just as they did 6 months ago at release. The new guys were getting Shift-grabbed out of matches early on or killed immediately from a bad spawn, and spending majority of time in spectate mode or switching lobbies. Hence why there were so many complaints regarding this issue. And they didn't stop because all those players learned how to deal with it - they stopped because all those players quit. 

I have many ideas on how to go about it, enough to make a thread on it which I most likely will at some point. The basic idea though is to enable players to learn the game in the most effective, and most enjoyable way that it's played (through teamwork) while they are playing. It could also work for new Jason players to have this kind of guidance. In a non-intrusive way that wouldn't be annoying to experienced players, but would be hugely beneficial to anyone just starting out. What I believe is that in order to balance a game, you must first ensure that everyone knows how to play it. And that's what has always been lacking with F13, and the root of its many problems. It is fundamentally flawed in that regard.

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Their sheer unwillingness to simply fix the window barriers and hit detection while slightly widening Jason's reach completely baffles me. It's not fun as a counselor unless you're a troll and unplayable as Jason. 

What a waste.

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On 19.12.2017 at 7:44 AM, MichaelMemers said:

This will intensify. I have yet to lose a single counselor since the update where they nerfed Jason's grab and changed many other aspects of the balance. This is because the average player is terrible and does not cooperate with others. Counselors bullying Jason is something that only happens when the lobby is full of coordinated level 101s playing meta characters. I think the devs would rather balance the game around the average match than high-end play.

so not true. that only full 101 lobbies can bully the crap out of him. simply because there is bad jasons out there. the worst noobs that a decent Jason would kill easily bully jason if they get the chance. and they get it pretty often and usually take it.

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Maybe the game "Last Year" will bring a new feel to the horror game world? I still love Friday the 13th, I can still kill everyone before rage on public matches. I guess I must be a good Jason when no one else has been doing well with him...?!?! :D 

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8 minutes ago, TiffanyCox said:

I can still kill everyone before rage on public matches

Sure and i can fly and cast fireball from my nose

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6 minutes ago, TiffanyCox said:

Maybe the game "Last Year" will bring a new feel to the horror game world? I still love Friday the 13th, I can still kill everyone before rage on public matches. I guess I must be a good Jason when no one else has been doing well with him...?!?! :D 

Yes when Counsellors are given buffs & become cocky, it can lead to similar outcomes as when Jason was stronger. I have noticed many of my kills are simply from players running up to hit me.   

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I had an entire group focus up and come at me with everything they got.  Shortest match I've played in months.

They all died.  

As of the posting of this response, I still haven't been killed as Jason.  The game balance will change back and forth and for players that just want an experience where they wipe the map off all counselors with ease, there are offline bots that will happily give you that experience.  For the rest of us, there will be good matches, there will be bad matches, but regardless of outcome, there will be ways of adapting and overcoming the change ups.  

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I played four quick play games yesterday.

Game 1: I was Chad, never saw Jason once till I walked to the cops (with Tommy and Mitch). We just shot him with a flare an left but then a A.J. sat at the exit hitting/tea-bagging Jason over and over again till he gave up went after another A.J. who also beat him up and tea-bagged him. Jason got 3 kills over all 

Game 2: I was Jenny,  Actually did get chased by Jason this time, till he gave up because I had two pocket knives and med sprays...I got stuck on a PS menu for awhile so I don't know exactly what happened but everyone escaped to the cops (even me, despite being a short walk away from cops) Jason got 1 kill over all .

Game 3: I was Mitch and Jason had tunnel vision on me and did actually kill me (I quit that lobby so I don't know his kill count)

Game 4: I got Jason, got looped around an outside table by Vanessa (just barley grabbed her) had a Shelly just hide behind doors trying to hit me threw them (didn't work but he keep slipping away). Then the car was already fixed, I stopped it but ALL SIX PLAYERS where right there...I was able to kill them all...but it was the same sucky experience of swing, miss, swing, miss, grab, knocked down, over and over.

Thank god for those offline bots, only place you can go where Jason isn't getting bullied or attacked by a mob.

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2 hours ago, lHeartBreakerl said:

Found a shotgun, med spray, and two pocket knives at my first campsite I looted.

Let's just take a moment and pray for our favorite serial killer..

I have to agree. And you guys probably know me as the girl who always say things like "Counselors deserves at least a chance to survive blah blah blah", but yesterday, playing as Shelly: 1 or 2 minutes of match and I already had a shotgun, 1 spray and 2 knives LOL That's a little too much.

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I don't understand you guys. You play with the FAILED aspect of the game, why aren't you playing with BOTS?

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I have yet to get "bullied" in QP. This mythological "pinata Jason" has continued to elude me, even through all of the nerfs and window smash mechanic changes. It takes 1 second to smash a window, and the button prompt guarantees you'll actually hit it,  as opposed to just swinging at it with the dodgy melee system.

If you're playing Jason the right way, it's really not that hard to get 6/8 or greater. Granted, if you're in a lobby of seasoned vets, it's gonna be a bit more challenging to pull off. 

And it should be. They're not 101 because they suck...

The counselor buffs don't bother me in the slightest, and this is someone who has his spawn preference set to Jason. As others have illustrated, the average casual player is gonna be a counselor for 90% of their multiplayer experience, they have to feel like there's a chance of survival or else the game gets old for them fast. 

As Jason, I'm not gonna waste time whining about how easy counselors have it. That's not something Jason would do. He would just sharpen his tools and focus his rage. 

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1 hour ago, Lootron said:

I don't understand you guys. You play with the FAILED aspect of the game, why aren't you playing with BOTS?

The bots aren't the game. They are an add-on. We want to play survival horror with people...not kick the puppy AI. 😴

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Just now, Alkavian said:

The bots aren't the game. They are an add-on. We want to play survival horror with people...not kick the puppy AI. 😴

 

I'm sad that in 15 years singleplayer video games wont even exist. :( 

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24 minutes ago, Brevator said:

I have yet to get "bullied" in QP. This mythological "pinata Jason" has continued to elude me, even through all of the nerfs and window smash mechanic changes. It takes 1 second to smash a window, and the button prompt guarantees you'll actually hit it,  as opposed to just swinging at it with the dodgy melee system.

If you're playing Jason the right way, it's really not that hard to get 6/8 or greater. Granted, if you're in a lobby of seasoned vets, it's gonna be a bit more challenging to pull off. 

And it should be. They're not 101 because they suck...

The counselor buffs don't bother me in the slightest, and this is someone who has his spawn preference set to Jason. As others have illustrated, the average casual player is gonna be a counselor for 90% of their multiplayer experience, they have to feel like there's a chance of survival or else the game gets old for them fast. 

As Jason, I'm not gonna waste time whining about how easy counselors have it. That's not something Jason would do. He would just sharpen his tools and focus his rage. 

Talking as a counselor I don’t like easy victories. Last night I played for 2 hours, and I survived every single game. Most games ended with 8/8 escaped or only 1 or 2 kills. That’s not friday the 13th. The lobbies where average lev 50s a couple 101s. I’m seeing Jason’s rage quit more often, as these casual gamers who the developers are catering towards are being devastated in lobbies when it’s there turn to be Jason.

The small maps are ridiculous easy as a counselor. They should just patch them out. Last night we had all 2 cars and cops called before Jason earned shift. Average Jason too who trapped the objectives, it’s just the counselors have too many pockets knives and health sprays. What’s the point of Tommy Jarvis?

 

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1 minute ago, Lootron said:

 

I'm sad that in 15 years singleplayer video games wont even exist. :( 

Most of my favorite games are SP, but this game screams for multi-player. 

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1 minute ago, Alkavian said:

Most of my favorite games are SP, but this game screams for multi-player. 

It'd be good if everyone wasn't a dick tho

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