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Gambling in games  

30 members have voted

  1. 1. Are you for, or against, gambling in games?

    • For
      12
    • Against
      17
    • Abstain (I give up my right to vote, and agree with the majority)
      1


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In most states the legal definition of gambling encompasses the following:

Quote

A person engages in gambling if he stakes or risks something of value upon the outcome of a contest of chance or a future contingent event not under his control or influence, upon an agreement or understanding that he or someone else will receive something of value in the event of a certain outcome.

USLegal.com

Using CP (in-game currency) to pay for perks, falls into this category.  With everything that has been going on with EA, and that fact that states are currently in the process of drafting legislation to control gambling in games, do you think that the current perk system is sustainable?

P.S. While EA is referenced, this question is in regards to this game only.  How will current, and future, legislation affect the game?  Nothing else.

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First of all there is no way to buy more in game points or perks with real money so the situations are completely different.

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I think that you are overthinking this. Although rolling for perks does technically fall under the definition of gambling, CP is not really "valuable" outside of the game. It does not have any monetary value. 

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10 minutes ago, Jawbone said:

First of all there is no way to buy more in game points or perks with real money so the situations are completely different.

Wow guys...You let Jawbone make the most logical post in a thread.

I'm disappointed.

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Thus far, there are 2 incorrect assumptions being made:

  1. Gambling laws do not require the spending of real money to be enacted upon.
  2. The courts have ruled that engaging in a game has monetary value.  Thus, the CP that you are paid for engaging in the game, has monetary value.

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1 hour ago, AldermachXI said:

Wow guys...You let Jawbone make the most logical post in a thread.

I'm disappointed.

I have to agree with him on this. Gambling with real money I couldn't support, or something of tangible monetary value, but I see nothing wrong with "gambling" a meaningless video game currency. I don't like the slot machine perk selection process, but I don't see it as gambling. Real gambling, such as commenting on my wife's latest hairstyle choice when she asks me, "what do you think", is best left out of video games unless they are in a casino.:wacko:;)

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LOL@this topic.

39 minutes ago, Kaelum said:

Thus far, there are 2 incorrect assumptions being made:

  1. Gambling laws do not require the spending of real money to be enacted upon.
  2. The courts have ruled that engaging in a game has monetary value.  Thus, the CP that you are paid for engaging in the game, has monetary vary.

The CP you are "PAID"??

 

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11 hours ago, Kaelum said:

Thus far, there are 2 incorrect assumptions being made:

  1. Gambling laws do not require the spending of real money to be enacted upon.
  2. The courts have ruled that engaging in a game has monetary value.  Thus, the CP that you are paid for engaging in the game, has monetary vary.

No, the only monetary value a game like Friday the 13th has is the cost of the game, and the price of any DLC. A lot of games have microtransactions that cost real life money. I don't know where you get your court ruling information from, but it is false. In other words...

I think there should be a 3rd voting option. "CP has no real-life monetary value. Therefore it is not gambling, and this whole thread is pointless."

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I can see how perk rolling has addictive qualities, but it's just not that bad... It's not worth debating this as a seeious problem.

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               Rolling in game councilor points for random perks is not gambling in my opinion. But offering a random chances for money to gain digital items is gambling. And in some ways it's worse than traditional gambling because the items gained through random chance microtransactions are not things that are physical. If that game gets shut down your money is out the window. 

             Games that offer loot boxes for money prey on that "one more time mentality" that most creatures on this earth are born with and was proven with the Skinner Box. What is the Skinner Box you might ask? It's an experiment involving a rat in a box with a treat dispenser. At first the dispenser gives a treat every time the rat hits the button. The rat gets used to hitting the button to get what it wants. Then the dispenser starts dropping things the rat dosen't want but still drops a treat randomly. In this instance the rat just kept hitting the button impulsively until it got what it wanted. Guess what in this scenario your the rat paying to hit the button for that random treat. Some people can walk away from the scenario but for those who are excessive compulsive it's too easy to get trapped hitting the button for random cheese.

                   Children play video games. And video games by their very nature are somewhat addicting. However when you expose a developing mind to a Skinner Box your opening the door for that person to develop excessive compulsive behavior. What starts as dumping birthday money into loot boxes for a chance at getting Luke Skywalker's lightsaber card ends up a full blown gambling addiction down the road for some people. And that isn't something the gaming industry wants to be known for. Video games have come under fire and been unjustly labeled the cause of violent behavior more then once. But in this instance the gaming industry would be one hundred percent guilty of exploiting excessive compulsive behavior to make money off any age group it could swindle. 

                 In short paying for random chance in the form of loot crates for any item is gambling. And certain people in this world can't curb their excessive compulsive behavior. Nor should kids be exposed to gambling at an early age. Loot crates need to dissappear. The gaming industry dosen't need the negative press and the publisher's greed shouldn't be getting in the way of their common sense or decency. 

Six

 

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I commend @Alien_Number_Six for actually taking the time to think it through, and to consider how others may also be affected.  It took a little time to get there, but his examples are spot on.  The ESRB has a Content Descriptor for Simulated Gambling, but they refuse to use it, or to create a new content descriptor, for games that elicit Gambling Behavior.  This is the reason why many states are now drafting legislation to regulate this, and other behaviors, as the gaming industry has refused to accept any responsibility.

 

PSA: I also commend the numerous video gaming producers who actively fight for this, and who voluntarily mark their products that might elicit this and other detrimental behaviors.  If gambling is harming you, or someone that you know, please visit Gamblers Anonymous.

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     I don't feel that Friday the 13th The Game's perk system is an issue. But any game that offers a system to spend real money to "pull the handle" so to speak is predatory and should be outlawed. Hawaii senator Christopher Lee is leading the charge on anti loot box law check out his channel on YouTube.   @Kaelum 

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Strongly against. There is abolutly no fun or advantage in having totally random perks. It only brings out frustration and a "i must play to get cp" feeling.

i don´t think it´s gambling as no real money is involved. lootboxes you pay for should be considerded gambling tough and treated the same way. like belgium did.

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It’s no more gambling than any other game of chance. Is rock paper scissors gambling? Besides, in gambling you spend money on a chance to make more money. This isn’t spending XP to earn more XP. No matter what you get that XP is gone. 

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2 hours ago, CountYorgaVampir said:

It’s no more gambling than any other game of chance. Is rock paper scissors gambling? Besides, in gambling you spend money on a chance to make more money. This isn’t spending XP to earn more XP. No matter what you get that XP is gone. 

I agree @CountYorgaVampir Friday The 13th's perk system isn't gambling. But Loot Boxes that are found in games like Overwatch and Counter Strike: Global Offensive are encouraging you to gamble your cash away on a random chance at getting something you want. In Counter Strike's case they have websites you can gamble the skins you get for real money. That preys on the excessive compulsive behavior that is gambling addiction. That kind of behavior by developers and publishers has to be cut off before it gets out of control. Video games get vilified enough over violence issues that aren't even warrented. But right now if someone sited loot boxes as their gateway into gambling the video game haters out there can pick that up and run with it because it could very well be true.

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I think the perk slot machine is awful. The only reason randomization like this is introduced other than enticing gambling is to control for the fact that the perks overall are so badly designed. The vast majority of the perks are useless, so of course if you bought them with CP directly everyone would end up very similar perks. There is no excuse for a random perk generator in any game.

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You can't pay real money for cp. So this is all nonsense. Many games throughout history have ways you spend in game money/points to buy upgrades or roll for perks. There is nothing wrong with this and the only way someone can have an advantage is if they earned it in game.

The whole problem with EA and other games like CS:GO is the ability to spend real money to purchase in game currency for loot boxes. It's scummy and in a way IS pay to win and most definitely gambling. I despise all aspects of it.

In Friday the 13th, while the perk system is a bit meh and needs some work, it's acceptable in my eyes. I see it as no different than grinding for gil in a Final Fantasy game and then using it to play a mini game for items or buy stuff in a shop. 

It's not gambling because cp cannot be purchased and therefore has zero value. 

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Even in games where the microtransactions are only through in game xp, the ones that would be considered "gambling" have a plethora of customization options, like hundreds of variations of weapons and skins and whatnot. This game only has a few items and, what 45 perks? Hardly worth calling gambling.

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17 hours ago, Kaelum said:

The courts have ruled that engaging in a game has monetary value.  Thus, the CP that you are paid for engaging in the game, has monetary vary.

If you have authority for the inference you're making in the second sentence, I'd be amused to see it.

 

CP, unlike in-game currencies like ISK that can be exchanged for game subscription time, has not been held to be "of value." Thus, frittering away CP isn't within the legal definition of gambling.

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