Jump to content

Recommended Posts

So, throughout this forum, and about the game, I know these things.

1.) Mitch and Jenny's composure stat is pointless, as that's their best stat, which makes them objectively bad.

2.) Vanessa and Chad are the best characters, from what I've heard of at least.

3.) Escape Artist and Adrenaline Rush, as well as Heavy Mover are all shit perk, and the Combat Stance is generally useless to most.

I just hope that I can try to make a change by making them better in a sense. But first, if you want to know who I am (which I'm sure you don't) I'm a new user called Vialigo who...doesn't play the game. Shocking I know. But I know the game, good enough to know what I'd have to do if I was given the controller (and die first). Anyways, with that out the way, here are my opinions (which, on the internet, are quite really something to have).

So, composure is actually a bad and pointless stat. Sure it's good for not screaming or panicking, but that's about it. It doesn't affect your running (other then making you stumble), it doesn't affect your repairing, it doesn't affect your fighting, it's just pointless. Even if it does make your minimap and your inventory invisible, you should know the correct order buttons to be pressed in order to get a measely pocket knife out and stab Jason in the neck. As a result, I was disappointed about how awful this stat was gameplay wise. Which is why Mitch and Jenny are objectively low-tier characters. So, I've decided why not make the composure stat better.

Composure while running: If you were running, and Jason so happens to appear in front of you, then normally you'd do something like run backwards away from him or use fireworks or swing at him wiht your weapon. Well, if you have a composure stat of, say, 5, then your character then staggers backwards or sideways similar to if they were to see Pamela or a dead counselor. If it's even lower then that, then you'd have to stagger backwards, trip and fall, and either crawl backwards for a second before picking yourself up and running. And if it's really a composure stat of 1 or 2, then your character would then stagger, fall, but take about 3-5 seconds of crawling backwords before getting up to run. 

Composure while repairing: When Jason approches you while you repair something (preferrably from shifting), the screen goes to static and when it comes back, it changes your mini-game and adds more skill checks when he's near you, the amount of skill-checks you get are reduced by how high your composure is. Which means if you were Deborah or Kenny with 5 composure, you'd normally have like 2-3 skill checks, but when Jason's near you, 2 more pop up and it makes your mini-game longer (since it makes it slower. This can be fixed with Tinkerer, however, but there are still the skill checks). It's a way to have it so that you have to be careful about when you can repair something like the car or the boat. This is especially annoying if you were to have someone like Eric trying to fix the phone the moment Jason shows up, and also makes characters like Adam and AJ more useful as repair-ers. This also makes it so that it would be more harder to repair as characters like Brandon or Tiffany.

Composure while fighting: Obviously the most realistic one to be possible, but it isn't as of now. Tbh, your composure stat really doesn't mean much while fighting other then getting rid of your mini-,map and your item menu. But, say if you were one to actually use combat stance, well, if your character has low composure, then their fighting stance would turn into a "sissy stance", as the counselor you're using then goes into a stance where they're putting their weapon in front of them to guard them, noticeably shaking, as they yell things like, "Stay away!" or, "Don't touch me!". When you're in this "sissy stance", your swings are like the ones from the combat stance, only with less range and less damage, but your hits are quicker. This could be easily patched up by perks that practically negate these debuffs, but as soon as your fear level is as high as it can go, your combat stance and your sissy stance is unuseable.

Composure for other things: As we all know it, when the power goes down, your character starts mumbling to themselves loud enough so that Jason can hear, which is very bad if you were someone like AJ or Mitch. Well, when you have a high composure stat, the only thing that your counselor would be doing is have a delayed time when doing things like getting items or picking up weapons/a trap. Though, if you were to have a low composure stat, then you'd scream, mumble, stumble a lot, and have delayed time when picking things up. And also, when you get grabbed by Jason, you'd just have a mini-game where you spam your buttons to free yourself, but it's barely helpful as Jasons tend to kill high-composure counselors quick. Well, when Jason goes into a grab kill animation, if you were someone like Tiffany, then you'd just get killed, rip, gg, no re. But if you were someone like Chad (high luck, no composure) or AJ (high composure no luck), then you'd have a bit of a chance of unlocking this mini-game where you can dodge Jason's killing-blow with a QTE (quick time event), but it's still a bit hard as you don't have both stats to compensate.. And finally, if you were Jenny, then you'd have an almost guaranteed of unlocking the mini-game, and an easy time of completing it. 

Oh yeah, and the perks, those three perks are really pointless. Seeing as how you won't get out of Jason's grab without a pocket knife, if the devs were not to change the composure stat, then the least they could do is fix these perks. For example, Escape Artist could work like a free pocket knife without the item that procs more often depending on it's rarity and the counselor's Skill + Luck stat. Adrenaline Rush can add onto this, so that if the Escape Artist doesn't proc, you'd still have a high chance of getting out of his grabs without a pocket knife with the perk on, as it makes the bar go even faster the more you mash and with the perk on, along with the Stamina boost...or just do the simple fix and make them work along with Pocket Knives. Lastly, Heavy Mover is such a laughing-stock, the only thing I could think of to make it useable is to make it so that you move the barricade faster along with making the door sturdier.

That's all I have for today. Be sure to comment and give your opinion on my ideas. I'm fully open to discussion. (God that sounds like a YouTuber outro.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For not even having the game, these are some solid observations. I want to thank you for taking the time to provide feedback for something you must believe in. I'd like to walk step by step through your observations and provide a response.

Composure does play a small, yet helpful role. It helps by regulating a counselor's fear level by providing a larger "fear pool" to accumulate. There are four stages of fear and each have a visual cue. Stage one fear is acknowledged when the player stands completely still. Stage two fear is seen when the players head looks side to side in a hasty manner. Stage three fear can be seen when the player begins to cower by looking scared and moving the upper torso in a shaking manner. Finally, stage four fear is met when the screen goes grey and the mini-map is lost. With each change in fear level, the slower your stamina will recharge and the further your character will glow red when Jason uses his Sense ability.

They are not the only factor, but light sources play a useful role in decreasing the fear level back down to zero, so there is almost never a reason to run around without your flashlight on. Hiding spots also do the trick and will recharge your stamina faster when hiding in one. Jason will never be able to sense you inside of a hiding spot before he gets the rage ability. I only use hiding spots for fear management / stamina fuel stations because I do not like to be trapped.

Unfortunately, the longer you are around Jason, the more scared you will become. I will agree that Composure is by no means a game changer, but it can aid in areas where there are either strengths or weaknesses to be assisted. It plays a support role. In my eyes, the stat categories that offer the greatest advantages in game are Luck (major advantage by having weapon durability last longer, which in turn means more possible stun hits in combat), Repair (easier and faster skill checks), Speed (faster movement) and Stamina (to have a larger pool for maneuverability). As the game stands now, Composure, Stealth and Strength are support statistics and offer small, niche advantages.

 

For example, you said that Jenny and Mitch are objectively bad because Composure is the best stat. Let's look at their stat placements:

 

Jenny Myers

Composure: 10

Luck: 8

Repair: 2

Speed: 3

Stamina: 5

Stealth: 6

Strength: 1

 

Jenny is a fighter. Between her, Chad and Vanessa, these are the three that you would want help defending objectives and/or fighting Jason. Chad has 10 Luck, as well as a secondary advantage with Speed at 9. Vanessa has both great Speed and Stamina (10 and 9, respectively), as well as respectable Luck (6) which makes her a very powerful character when used properly and conservatively. While not ideal, repairs can still be reliably done. There is a noticeable difference between 2 repair and 1 repair because of the speed of the skill check and the size of the boxes. Jenny and Chad make up for their mediocre stamina (5 and 4 points, respectively) by being able to utilize more weapon swings with high Luck. Every time a swing connects with Jason's body, a bump in stamina is given to the player. This is what makes fighters so dangerous. With ideal weaponry, fighters provide the necessary muscle to hinder Jason by theoretically having more stun-hits to inflict, which depends upon the weapon and RNG, while having the stamina increases to continue to fight. Ideally, you want someone to watch your back, but stuns are still reliable enough with baseball bats, wrenches, pots and pans.

 

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

Mitch Floyd

Composure: 9

Luck: 2

Repair: 8

Speed: 3

Stamina: 4

Stealth: 6

Strength: 3

 

Mitch is a lover, not a fighter. By that I mean a repair man. This is his specialized role upon viewing his stat placements. Low Luck, low Speed, and about average Stamina. There just isn't a character in game that has both high Repair and Luck. Illfonic and Gun Media had the foresight to avoid that disaster, so that's good. Repairs are good because they facilitate survival. This is, ideally, his role to the team. You can of course play him however you want, though. Just because he has low Luck doesn't make him any worse of a fighter. It just means that he will need more weapons to play that role since they break with less hits.

 

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

Let's go back to your ideas. You recommended that Composure could play a role with determining the severity of a stumble chance. You also mentioned incorporating a falling mechanic where you would have to get up from the ground. I have seen this idea brought once before:

http://forum.f13game.com/topic/13059-im-new-and-its-probably-been-asked-for-but/

In this thread, @Alkavian brings up the possibility of a fall mechanic. It would certainly fall in line with the standard horror trope and would thus make having high fear more dangerous, but @Tommy86 responded by using caution where the game interferes with player control. Getting killed when making an honest mistake is part of the process. You can learn from that and move on in order to try not to make the same mistake again. When the game intentionally interferes with the controls, like it does with stumble or seeing a dead body, there is no way to truly learn from that mistake. The circumstance is left up to randomness and chance, beyond the control of the user. I may be biased because I enjoy the combat to this game, but I'd have to agree with what Tommy said.

 

Composure while repairing: I like your idea of increasing the amount of skill checks depending on Jason's proximity and fear level. It is easy just to reroll for an easier skill prompt, so this could be a way to counteract that. It would make sense that the more fearful you are, the harder it would be to focus, especially with a mass murderer in the area. Illfonic would have to rework the repair system by making it dynamic, instead of it being a fixed skill prompt with each retry every time.

 

Composure while fighting: Don't you DARE try to take my precious combat away! You should never attack outside of combat stance unless time is of the essence and/or you're trying to free someone from a grab in a pinch. I don't want to see combat effected in that regard. I want Jason to be able to grab further again and have his weapon hitbox connect properly with counselors crouching. Jason needs his tools for destruction readjusted to what they once were in order to provide adequate combat opportunities for both sides.

 

Composure for other things: I like what you said about keeping your cool compared to being fearful, but I don't like the delayed pickup action that you mentioned. Being fearful would make you want to find a weapon as quickly as possible, no? The chase music projects this idea of tension where you can be the "star" at any given time. This is all happening in live action, compared to the linearity of cinema. The cooperation between you and your teammates can either result in a happy ending where everyone survives, a tragic ending where everyone dies, or somewhere in between. Jason should be dangerous because it is so easy to die to his clutches. You have to take the proper precautions to prevent that death. Once he grabs you, the chances of survival should be slim to none. I like the way it is now.

 

Escape Artist and Adrenaline Rush are pretty useless on their own. I just don't see a use for them at all. It's funny because the divide between those who can break out of the grip easier compared to those who cannot is so severe. To me, it's just one of those things where if they hadn't incorporated them into the game, we would not have to try and find a way to make them justifiable. If I get grabbed without a pocket knife, I expect to die. If fact, I want to. For the sake of Jason and for the consequences of my actions. I do like your idea about increasing door durability depending upon the value of the Heavy Mover Perk. Maybe if you have an uncommon variant, it adds one more durability point. With a rare, it adds 2. With Epic, 3. Three more points would be a noticeable change against +Destruction Jasons like Parts 4 and 8, since it normally only takes them 3 swings to chop down a door. It would certainly put a damper on their day.

 

 

Personally, I would be curious to see a change where Composure and/or Stealth worked together in order to avoid being noticed by Jason's sense ability. As of right now, only two things dictate sense avoidance:

1. Distance. Jason's Sense ability has a guaranteed pickup, while a second layer beyond the guaranteed sense area is dependent on the counselor's fear level.

2. Sense avoidance perks. These are Level Headed and Low Profile. There are others such as Home Body that depends upon being indoors (the best situational avoidance), Quiet Swimmer that depends upon being in the water to avoid, and Heavy Sleeper that relies on being inside of a tent. Heavy Sleeper is useless because Jason will never sense you inside of a hiding spot pre-rage. Once he has rage, his abilities recharge faster and he can keep using Sense to eventually find you. There are other fear-related perks, which in turn cut down the chance of being Sensed in the "potentially found" radius, but the Sense area grows as the match goes on, which makes those ones much more situational to early game than sense avoidance perks for late game.

If Stealth actually did what the description says it does in-game ("reduces the amount of noise generated and Jason's ability to sense" ) while possibly being dependent on Composure as well, tactical espionage action could be a role of itself in the game. I'd like to see sense avoidance become dependent on Stealth and Composure points. Specialized traits found within characters like A.J., Tiffany, and Deborah who have high stealth. These characters with the highest Stealth points in turn have the low Luck, too so they are not necessarily ideal fighters, but they could get the jump on Jason if they had to. Not having to rely solely on environmental ambushes inside houses could be huge!

Of course, Jason needs to be reworked before any new counselor ideas are implemented, but it is something to think about.

 

Stealth rework source:

http://forum.f13game.com/topic/8925-sense-ruins-the-game/

 

 

 

Further Reading:

http://forum.f13game.com/topic/10596-the-playbook-techniques-and-strategies/

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmmm, I guess I should've been a bit more specific.

I like the feedback you put out, but I have to explain a bit further from what I mean by some things you critiqued on.

Jenny is a fighter, but Chad still does a better job even though 1 point less luck isn't that much in my opinion, because of the fact that he has speed, as well as serviceable strength. Vanessa is also a fighter as well, thanks to her decent luck and 4 strength, which was highest for any female counselor until Fox came along. She could also run well, if she needed to, which made her great for juking. Jenny, has either of these, she has middling luck (between the two of these counselors anyway), and the lowest strength stat in the game, being 1. This makes her the least preferred out of the three, hence, underplayed.

Mitch is repair Jenny, which makes me just want to use AJ, since she isn't one of the characters that are the second slowest counselor, beating Lachappa. And yes, you can play him however you want, but it's a big handicap, since all he can do is repair. AJ, has only two less points in composure and 1 less point in repair, but she also has maxed stealth, making her ideal for a lone wolf counselor (too bad she won't get to see her boyfriend Adam much because of the stealth). Mitch on the other hand, should be one to try and stick with another counselor to protect him, most likely Jenny, as they both have the same stealth stat, as well as alike speed and stamina stats (Jenny has 1 point higher then him but it's not much to leave him in the dust). 

I have seen several occasions where the player dies in a cabin merely due to seeing a corpse, and then they get scared and move towards Jason, resulting in a free-kill if you don't have a pocket knife. Learning from your mistakes is one thing, but intentional things like those are awful in their own right.

Yes, I know combat stance is really not used in this game other then those two reasons, but what I meant by this was to try and make it a bit more realistic, though it might make fighting Jason much more difficult with someone like Chad. You can still use the normal, well and good swings, but just that both of the stances you can use are disabled. Also, yes, Jason really does need to be revamped a bit to make him more dangerous, maybe have it harder to stun him based on how weak your strength stat is? Though, this is why the baseball bat exists as a weapon. And I do agree that both Jason's grab range and hit detection are bad, it's a bit funny to look at a counselor ducking under Jason's weapon and taking no damage because of the game's inability to detect it, same with just seeing him whiff a grab, makes shift grabs more deadly if you can't juke or run away.

That being said, I do hope combat stance gets buffed in someway, both for counselors and for Jason. 

When I ask for the delayed weapon pick up times, I mean like they have to rummage a bit before they can find it compared to just the normal animation of picking it up. Wouldn't it be a bit harder to pick something up you don't know is there? Though, the rummage animation I think would just be only a bit longer then the normal animation but it'd still be a little annoying when your trying to loot a cabin with no power. Flashlights can be used here to negate this, since there would be no need to try and rummage if you can find it. Though, the way it is now is still satisfying, maybe this little change might make somethings frustrating at times.

Escape Artist and Adrenaline Rush are in of itself time-wasters, that really wouldn't work and should be blanked out. Though I like the idea of making them useful like how I said it, when you get grabbed without a pocket knife, normally you'd just die. But if you just put these on, then you can just waltz right out of Jason's clutches if they have slow reaction times or slow button presses.

All in all, I like your feedback, and it made me change my opinions a bit, though I did have to clarify some particular things during my rambling to hopefully have a better understanding. I also enjoy your idea of how stealth and composure should go hand in hand when playing as a stealthy character, and do what it has to do instead of telling lies. Sense is good for seeing where the counselor is in the hourse or likewise, but the idea of it ruining your stealth if you were about a yard away was a bit disappointing, as he'd shift to where you are and chase you down until he kills you or gives up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Vialigo said:

 

I certainly agree with counselors being outclassed by others in different facets. I want to note that while Chad may have a greater amount of Speed to cover more ground, Jason can easily close the gap with his Morph and Shift abilities. I want to clarify: while it can be helpful, Speed means nothing without proper stamina management, and Jenny and Chad both have roughly the same amount Stamina with a difference of 1 point. From the way I see it, Jenny is the female version of Chad and both can be played in a similar manner. The main difference between the two is the fact that Jenny can wear the sweater to kill Jason while Chad cannot. A few differences in points is minimal due to the nature of "breakpoints" in the game.

Another thing I would like to mention is the fact that the main use of Strength is strictly with damage. This is useful to demask Jason or can greatly reduce the time to kill a fellow counselor in a private session. Stun hits and damage hits are different. A hit that stuns Jason inflicts a fraction of the damage compared to a hit that does not stun. When trying to demask Jason, the machete is the best weapon to go for due to the number of swings you have and the chance to stun is lower compared to the axe. The axe has less durability than the machete and can be used as a multi-purposed strength weapon or a stun weapon. I believe it does the same amount of damage as the machete, but it should be treated valuable like the baseball bat or firearm since it doesn't last as long. 

For low strength characters, combat stance is absolutely vital when going for a Jason kill. While in this stance, holding down the swing button will initiate a heavy vertical strike. This attack does roughly double the damage compared to a horizontal swipe attack inside or outside of combat stance. For Jenny in particular, the amount of horizontal swipes it would take to demask Jason with the machete would be 8. Heavy vertical attacks in combat stance would only take 4 clean hits to demask with her. Blocks or stuns seem to only do a fraction of the damage, like I said above. For comparison, with 10 Strength and machete it would either take 3 horizontal swings (light attacks) or 2 vertical attacks (heavy attacks) to demask. Jenny can still hold her own on this front. 

Source for Strength Damage: http://forum.f13game.com/topic/13181-thepunkpirates-guide-to-weapons-and-combat/

If I want to repair, I'll go with Eric or Deborah. They both have 10 in Repair, which makes completion the easiest. This unfortunately for me gives me very little incentive to use characters like A.J., Mitch, Adam, Fox, or even Brandon unless I want to challenge myself. I'd rather play as Kenny for (slim) versatility over the characters I listed just to give myself a flat baseline to work from. The benefits for each of them just do not outweigh the hindrances in my eyes. They can repair objectives, but what happens when Jason decides to pop on by to inspect the sector? Maybe you messed up the skill prompt, or Jason decided to drop on by due to mere chance? Stealth doesn't help at this point, and they aren't the best fighters thanks to low Luck. Lower Repair means the possibility to mess up is there. As a player, we must accept the facts and the varying importance of the stats. Some characters have better stats than others, but with the proper knowledge and experience with your character, you can persevere. Whoever you favor in gameplay is subjective, and can be deemed viable. Like I said, it can be more challenging, but that is just part of the fun!

 

 

4 hours ago, Vialigo said:

I have seen several occasions where the player dies in a cabin merely due to seeing a corpse, and then they get scared and move towards Jason, resulting in a free-kill if you don't have a pocket knife. Learning from your mistakes is one thing, but intentional things like those are awful in their own right.

So I believe we have an understanding then? Taking away the player's controls isn't always the best solution. I hate it too, but I'm glad it doesn't have a greater impact than it already does. Stumbling and being startled by dead bodies are enough for me. Also, there is always the possibility that a hit won't stun Jason, unless it is a firearm or a baseball bat. The bat can be a little quirky because after Jason is stunned and regains movement, he can shrug off a bat hit sometimes and only takes damage from the swing. It's weird.

 

In the hands of a counselor, combat stance is invaluable even in the game's current state. You just have to know how to use it. This video will show you everything you need to know about counselor combat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZAKpkYhGDg&t=2332s

Jason needs some reworking. Absolutely. Even you agree! A wider and longer area of effect with both the grab and swing would do wonders. Being able to move between targets while in combat stance would also help Jason out when getting mobbed. Then he could prioritize.

 

I'm glad to hear that you wouldn't dismiss the incorporation of stealth gameplay to counter-play Jason's Sense ability. It could be a game changer, especially in terms of combat pursuits.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Perhaps to buff composure in a way, they could tie fear level into how complicated the skill checks are. The more frightened you are the more checks you get, and even re-rolling for an easier check, the minimum will always be higher than if you were completely calm. Think of it as nervous shaky hands.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...