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1 hour ago, Corkenstein said:

Just have to say this is 100% wrong....Dead By Daylight...It's not a problem for other developers/publishers and as you can see from both big and small studios.  If it's taking 2 or 3 weeks for them to pass cert, either it's getting kicked back or they really pissed someone off at Sony/MS.  

Dead By Daylight's studio is far from small, and has close to 100 titles under their belt. Illfonic and Gun Media, combined, have 10 (including F13 for both). Behaviour (DbD dev team) has hundreds more employees. Of course F13 is failing certifications. They don't have the man power to do a thorough QA. 

DbD also has a year's head start on F13. I would love to know the headaches people had to go through within the first few months of DbD. 

You can't deny those facts. And you can't deny the significance of how small they are. 

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1 minute ago, JPops said:

@Fooobar none of that. You know better. 

Did you read the text he wrote?

Phony misspellings are ok but not saying it is stupid to write them? 

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20 hours ago, GunMedia_Ben said:

I'm sorry you see my post as a 'troll,' however there's not much more than I can say with the patch. There's a variety of reasons internally for that, however I am not at liberty to discuss those. Dan is our new guy here and he will be taking over the bulk of conversation with community now that we have someone dedicated to it, though I want to be clear that our team wants to have 100% information on patch updates, fixes/changes and additions to the game that will be coming in the next patch. All of that is dependent on where things are in development. 

We do have plans. We have a lot of plans, however we've made a statement that this patch has a lot of work involved, especially with bug fixes that have been present in the game. We do take the feedback into account with how some users perceive Jason as 'not powerful enough,' and are taking a look at balancing as we look at meta statistics and gameplay. 

 

No matter what, though; our team is going to want to post accurate information and not speculative information. We've taken that stance for some time now, given reaction towards previous approaches of our team regarding earlier changes, possible additions to the game and so forth. Users take the word of any member of Gun and IllFonic as gospel and even when we comment on hypothetical prospects, it unfortunately goes from 'possibly' to 'definitely' in the minds of people that aren't participating in the day-to-day activities of the forums, sub-Reddit or Discord channels. 

So; when we do post information, we're going to post it and answer as many questions as possible. That won't happen until we're 100% sure on what we're doing. Until such time...it's going to remain that we won't be commenting or offering thoughts/opinions on things as we want to avoid confusion on expectations for said patch. I want to again point to our Roadmap as the best source of upcoming content. That's the biggest indicator of what we're doing and where we're going. We're addressing feedback, we're looking at stats and we're watching the comments on our various fan community hubs and taking everything into account. However; we thank you for your patience (as frustrating as it is to wait) while the team works. There's a lot on our plates right now with the update and we can't wait to elaborate on that for all of you...but we won't be saying anything until we're ready as to ensure the best and most reliable information.  

THIS IS A RESPONSE to something. What you originally said was pure rubbish when a community is looking for answers. Thank you for this detailed posting.

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5 hours ago, PARTVI said:

The fact you are basing most of theese atrocious new changes based off quickplay makes sense why the game is in the sad state it is in now.

 

You misunderstood what Ben was saying. He was explaining that they gather information on gameplay from as many sources as possible including quick play and experienced streamers. I think it's cool that they don't just sample one type of gameplay and that they also get hands-on experience playing their own game.

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4 hours ago, WashingtonJones said:

Dead By Daylight's studio is far from small, and has close to 100 titles under their belt. Illfonic and Gun Media, combined, have 10 (including F13 for both). Behaviour (DbD dev team) has hundreds more employees. Of course F13 is failing certifications. They don't have the man power to do a thorough QA. 

DbD also has a year's head start on F13. I would love to know the headaches people had to go through within the first few months of DbD. 

You can't deny those facts. And you can't deny the significance of how small they are. 

Wasn't talking about Behavior Interactive.  I was talking about Hi-Rez.  They started off small and was able to churn out solid updates at a reasonable pace.  Now they are massive but it wasn't always like that.  

Either way, what I said was still correct.  As someone who has experience with shipping over 10 AAA titles and working one exclusively for certification, I know what I am talking about.  Granted it's been a little while but from what I have heard, it hasn't changed much.  It doesn't take 3 weeks to certify and that's including Microsoft's certification.  Again, if it's taking 3 weeks to certify a patch, either it's getting kicked back or they really pissed someone off at Sony or MS.  

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10 hours ago, Caulus said:

I never experienced 10ft grabs. Not ever. 7ft maybe, but never 10. Anytime the grab was longer than 6-7 ft, input lag was usually the culprit.

People on here saying the grab was too long obviously haven't played many Call of Duty games. Those games used to routinely have delayed hit registers due to a little cheat device called a LAG SWITCH. For those that don't know, @GunMedia_Ben included, this device simulated input delay, or high ping, by throttling the users internet connection. Whenever a player wanted to cheat, said player would press a pedal with his/her foot and create lag within the game. How does this cheat work? Essentially it freezes the game on the users end until the desired effect has been achieved. On the victim side, it appears that the game is going without a hitch, until you manage to avoid enemy gunfire and make it around to cover, only to collapse dead anyway; or in the case of F13, victims being grabbed from absurdly long distances.

I didn't have a problem with the old grab. I really didn't. If anything maybe a foot or 1 1/2 could've been shaved off, but anything more than that damages the effectiveness of Jason's gameplay.

...also, you're a dev. Surely you expect people to cheat? Have you industry devs forgotten about the lag switch, never heard of it, or maybe didn't expect people to use it in your game?

For the players, NO online game is immune to lag switches EXCEPT those with dedicated servers, hence why people ask for them. The problem with dedicated servers, however, is that once the game is no longer being supported, the servers are shut off and the online portion of the game dies forever.

Me personally, I'll take my chances with peer-to-peer. At least I never have to worry about sunset, ie. Marvel Heroes. You can still play CoD: Black Ops 1 on PS3 RIGHT NOW. 

This is the cause, absolutely. And the fact that I had always played private matches and rarely any quick play is why I have NEVER been grabbed by "the force".  Never had any match where I was grabbed by Jason and thought "he shouldn't have got me." But after the October patch, I sure as hell had PLENTY of times where I know Jason SHOULD have got me and did not.

Changing mechanics to "balance" cheating was never going to work. 

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2 hours ago, Corkenstein said:

Wasn't talking about Behavior Interactive.  I was talking about Hi-Rez.  They started off small and was able to churn out solid updates at a reasonable pace.  Now they are massive but it wasn't always like that.  

Either way, what I said was still correct.  As someone who has experience with shipping over 10 AAA titles and working one exclusively for certification, I know what I am talking about.  Granted it's been a little while but from what I have heard, it hasn't changed much.  It doesn't take 3 weeks to certify and that's including Microsoft's certification.  Again, if it's taking 3 weeks to certify a patch, either it's getting kicked back or they really pissed someone off at Sony or MS.  

Hi-rez was incredibly close to closing down till Tencent started backing them.  I don't know if they still do but Sony and MS used to charge money for every single update.

 

16 minutes ago, dmack621 said:

This is the cause, absolutely. And the fact that I had always played private matches and rarely any quick play is why I have NEVER been grabbed by "the force".  Never had any match where I was grabbed by Jason and thought "he shouldn't have got me." But after the October patch, I sure as hell had PLENTY of times where I know Jason SHOULD have got me and did not.

Changing mechanics to "balance" cheating was never going to work. 

 

This guy has three videos showing off the grab range before the change, all done in private games. Is he cheating too or will you come up with another intellectually dishonest answer.

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Other dev teams do have problems/long intervals in certification.

I remember when L4D2 was still getting a lot of content and updates. Valve devs would talk about the same thing. Not really defending anything here, just pointing out I've seen it talked about before.

I think more consistency would go a long way, but I don't see the complaints changing much. In October, things were moving quick, now a standstill.

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5 hours ago, Jawbone said:

This guy has three videos showing off the grab range before the change, all done in private games. Is he cheating too or will you come up with another intellectually dishonest answer.

An excellent example. Just looking through my own past videos, there's plenty of instances I've found where I think "how the fuck?" in regards to the grab. The range was definitely far fetched. I think the grab design itself has problems, but I don't believe range needs to go back to what it was.

But of course there will always be people saying they have never seen grab operate  it like it used to. Unfortunately for them, they are arguing directly in the face of hard evidence. Anyone who liked grab the way it was, be honest and say that. Give reasons. But don't try to deny what clearly existed.

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20 minutes ago, Tommy86 said:

An excellent example. Just looking through my own past videos, there's plenty of instances I've found where I think "how the fuck?" in regards to the grab. The range was definitely far fetched. I think the grab design itself has problems, but I don't believe range needs to go back to what it was.

But of course there will always be people saying they have never seen grab operate  it like it used to. Unfortunately for them, they are arguing directly in the face of hard evidence. Anyone who liked grab the way it was, be honest and say that. Give reasons. But don't try to deny what clearly existed.

Precisely. His grab sometimes worked perfectly but sometimes, if you played enough, you encountered the force on a semi-regular basis (at least i did). Now, his grab at times is the opposite. There are times when you encounter the t-rex arms (at least I do). 

In my opinion, they should try to find that grab sweet spot by adding about 20% off his range back and then call it a day. Tell people his grab has been buffed some but to not the force levels. Then if people complain, we can at least write it off to the complainers being picky. 

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4 minutes ago, Tommy86 said:

An excellent example. Just looking through my own past videos, there's plenty of instances I've found where I think "how the fuck?" in regards to the grab. The range was definitely far fetched. I think the grab design itself has problems, but I don't believe range needs to go back to what it was.

But of course there will always be people saying they have never seen grab operate  it like it used to. Unfortunately for them, they are arguing directly in the face of hard evidence. Anyone who liked grab the way it was, be honest and say that. Give reasons. But don't try to deny what clearly existed.

People have videos of bigfoot, that doesn't mean it exists. 

My point is, I have never been grabbed by "the force" ... not once. That's not denial, it's fact.

Showing me videos doesn't really mean anything to me because if I want a certain result for my video, I can get that result. I don't know what was used to make that video or any other.

You call tell me ET exists and you've seen him, had a 4 hour conversation and in your heart believe that he is real and exists. Hell maybe you took a few selfies with the ETs and that's fine and dandy. I haven't, and therefore there is nothing you can do or say to prove otherwise.

Same thing here. Between the hundreds of friends from PS4 never ONCE encountered anything even CLOSE to that shit. But because someone made a video I'm just supposed to be like "oh right, they have a video. My own experience in game doesn't matter because they made a video." Gimmie a break.

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8 minutes ago, dmack621 said:

 I haven't, and therefore there is nothing you can do or say to prove otherwise.

So anywhere you haven't been in the world doesn't exist? Do I exist since you have never personally met me? Do you have a brain since you have never personally seen it?

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17 minutes ago, dmack621 said:

People have videos of bigfoot, that doesn't mean it exists. 

My point is, I have never been grabbed by "the force" ... not once. That's not denial, it's fact.

Showing me videos doesn't really mean anything to me because if I want a certain result for my video, I can get that result. I don't know what was used to make that video or any other.

You call tell me ET exists and you've seen him, had a 4 hour conversation and in your heart believe that he is real and exists. Hell maybe you took a few selfies with the ETs and that's fine and dandy. I haven't, and therefore there is nothing you can do or say to prove otherwise.

Same thing here. Between the hundreds of friends from PS4 never ONCE encountered anything even CLOSE to that shit. But because someone made a video I'm just supposed to be like "oh right, they have a video. My own experience in game doesn't matter because they made a video." Gimmie a break.

That's a very dangerous way of thinking. Stubborn ignorance at a high level. 

There are endless videos of proof from all sorts of people under all sorts of conditions. You have been "force" grabbed, you just couldn't tell it happened. You have to pay more attention.

And your ET and Bigfoot arguments are pretty retarded.

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55 minutes ago, dmack621 said:

People have videos of bigfoot, that doesn't mean it exists. 

My point is, I have never been grabbed by "the force" ... not once. That's not denial, it's fact.

Showing me videos doesn't really mean anything to me because if I want a certain result for my video, I can get that result. I don't know what was used to make that video or any other.

You call tell me ET exists and you've seen him, had a 4 hour conversation and in your heart believe that he is real and exists. Hell maybe you took a few selfies with the ETs and that's fine and dandy. I haven't, and therefore there is nothing you can do or say to prove otherwise.

Same thing here. Between the hundreds of friends from PS4 never ONCE encountered anything even CLOSE to that shit. But because someone made a video I'm just supposed to be like "oh right, they have a video. My own experience in game doesn't matter because they made a video." Gimmie a break.

Honestly man, just stop. This post is so ridiculous it's embarrassing. It would be a waste of my time to write anything more to you than that.

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Our group called it "the gravity grab."

My issue isn't with Jason's magical force grab being fixed (it did exist),but the surrounding range of his grab taking a hit.

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On 12/6/2017 at 1:18 AM, DrKronish said:

Although I am sure it has fallen on many deaf ears (seeing some of the replies, I know it has) I am glad that you have explained this once and for all.  

If games were balanced by forum posts, particularly the same people making them over and over (.00001% of a playerbase), every game would be completely ruined.  

".00001%" As non-factual as ever I see. You call yourself a Dr.? Please.

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I wonder what could be THAT special for take so long to be released, please don't say Singleplayer or Virtual Cabin 2.0. I don't see anything special about it. Besides, seems like they are working with SP since forever. 

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"special" has nothing to do with timelines. Content isn't created in a snap of the fingers whether it is a skin, a map, or even new modes which take substantially longer. I can apprciate that people are eager to have something roll out but there is a massive amount of work and checks to be done before something is ready to ship. I can understand that people who are foreign to the hurdles that go into game design not knowing this and being confused on why something is taking so long but everything you see, hear, experience needs to be created. There are not generic settings. You press up on a controller or a keyboard well what does that do? It moves forward, well when you press that how far forward do you move in relation to the map? Just an example. Every fine detail has to be defined. Sure there are things in engine that hold values but again you need to account for everything. Then there is testing and bugs that come to the surface in testing. Then it is sent back for a fix then sent back to testing ect. 

there is not one day where someone is sitting around going hey I wish I had something to do. There is no idle time, from a player perspective you would not know all the intricacies and that's why it seems long. Especially where most games people play are developed by AAA studios and when you have 100 people working in something opposed to a handful of course things will move quicker. That's just the way things work. 

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12 hours ago, thatdudescott said:

Our group called it "the gravity grab."

My issue isn't with Jason's magical force grab being fixed (it did exist),but the surrounding range of his grab taking a hit.

It's been said before, but basically, Jason's grab was something of a Cone shape originating from Jason's body and extending outwards. When they nerfed it, they simply shrunk the cone down. This results in a shorter range overall, not just in length, but in width. In fact, you're more likely to grab someone about two feet in front of you than you will slightly off to your side.

Basically, it's like this:

Jason Grab Ranges.png

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1 hour ago, kitcat said:

I wonder what could be THAT special for take so long to be released, please don't say Singleplayer or Virtual Cabin 2.0. I don't see anything special about it. Besides, seems like they are working with SP since forever. 

With single player,I'll finally be able to show this game off to my non gamer friends who would love to play this as Jason and not worry about all the headaches in multiplayer.

But I personally wish they halted any progress in updating Virtual Cabin until the bugs were ironed out. 

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1 hour ago, kitcat said:

I wonder what could be THAT special for take so long to be released, please don't say Singleplayer or Virtual Cabin 2.0. I don't see anything special about it. Besides, seems like they are working with SP since forever. 

1: New game mode (Paranoia)

2: Virtual Cabin

3: Offline bots

4: Levelcap raised to 150 and special unlockables awarded for those levels.

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2 hours ago, Daneasaur said:

It's been said before, but basically, Jason's grab was something of a Cone shape originating from Jason's body and extending outwards. When they nerfed it, they simply shrunk the cone down. This results in a shorter range overall, not just in length, but in width. In fact, you're more likely to grab someone about two feet in front of you than you will slightly off to your side.

Basically, it's like this:

Jason Grab Ranges.png

What you have as "ideal" is what it is now as of the October patch. The middle example is incorrect.

Test Videos Here

Diagram Update Here

 

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2 hours ago, Daneasaur said:

It's been said before, but basically, Jason's grab was something of a Cone shape originating from Jason's body and extending outwards. When they nerfed it, they simply shrunk the cone down. This results in a shorter range overall, not just in length, but in width. In fact, you're more likely to grab someone about two feet in front of you than you will slightly off to your side.

Basically, it's like this:

Jason Grab Ranges.png

The current grab is actually what you've labelled "ideal" here. Personally I'd like to see a 180 degree half-circle in front of Jason. Not with the vacuum grab reach- I think the current reach would be fine with a semi-circle.

Edit:

@Alkavian

You beat me to it.

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