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TiffanyIsBae

Stealth is bad, ideas and simple mechanics to fix it.

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Given the way the meta has shifted from playing the game to fucking around with Jason.

1. Stealth needs a major buff

2. Composure/Speed/Stamina needs a rework...

3. Sense needs a rework

4. The counselors should be given the Strength/Weakness platform that Jason has with some of the abilities reworked

@Laphin made a great point in his recent video on the game about Sense, why Jason feels handcuffed, nuance, etc.

Sense needs to have an in between effect. It shouldn't be an all or nothing power. Jason should have a general idea of someone being out there with sense, but he shouldn't know exactly where they are unless they move around a lot and I agree completely.

etc etc etc it all needs a rework

 

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I generally don't care about how stealth is currently, I think its good for what it is, even if its not among the stronger stats.  If it was buffed however, anything that would make my Jenny even better is welcomed :D, but in no way should it allow the last surviving counselor undetectable to Jason late game.

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Many of the issues with the stats in general are related to how they are tiered. They often have a hard cut-off point for an effect. Silent jogging is a good example of this in action. Every point of each stat should be having a meaningful impact to gameplay. The practical effect of stats should not be in little ranges (that works if you have big stat numbers; but this is 1-10. Come on.) Another issue is the binary design of Sense itself. Sense shouldn't be spammable. Clarity (how precisely you can see) of detection based on current Fear would be pretty cool; even if they kept the fixed Sense BDR progression design.

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@JennyMyers1984 It is a bit terminator like... I agree. But some game mechanics will be unrealistic just for playability. I like more realism where it can be added... but as far as stealth goes, it should stick to noise pings. Movement will always be noticeable and draw your attention, so standing still when you are at a distance can help you go unnoticed... that is realistic.
   As far as sense lighting someone up as it does.... I can agree that it does not need to give away your exact position, but it should keep it close.... the big red cloud sounds reasonable to me.... but not too big.... and Jason is the closest thing to the terminator that you will find outside of robotics.... and the counselors are not ninjas, nor should they be buffed into being ninjas. They are in fact the furthest you can get from being a ninja. Everyone in the game should make the occasional noise ping at the very least... even a ninja cannot open a closet with creaky hinges without making noise... or walk through a forest in the dark in complete silence... a leaf or a twig that even the sharpest observer didn't see will still make noise when they step on it... and forests are full of leaves and twigs that no one will see in the dark... or even with a flashlight when under the stresses of a psycho chasing you down... Most people do not even pay that much attention to where they are stepping even when trying to be quiet.

   However, your example of Jason and Chris Higgins in the barn is just like it is in the game. She was hiding above him and not making any noise... all was quiet in the Higgins barn at the time and if she made a noise... that would have been it for her... but let us think of sense playing out this scenario in the game (Without hiding in the rafters, obviously). Sense will show Jason that she is in the barn... but will not show her position once he is inside... only the noise she makes can do that being she is out of his sight. He did not notice her until she made noise. I think this is a scenario that they used to model sense on... along with the noise pings and related mechanics. There are probably a few more they thought of as well. It is not perfect, but what is?
   In the movies... it sure did appear that Jason knew where almost everyone was before he killed them, without them knowing he was there. This is hard to reproduce for a video game and not everyone will be happy with any one mechanic. Remember to keep both sides of play in mind. Try to play Jason without using sense at all against a group of half descent players... then you will appreciate it a bit more.
   I think the big red glowing house is used simply so that Jason knows someone is in the cabin, not how many are in the cabin... sound pings are to be used in determining that... hence, stealth is useful as it is... let the lead feet take the heat and then sneak away... but, sneaking away will not always work, if the person you are sneaking away from takes a look in your direction.... or the lead footed counselor will not leave your side.

   I can't get behind sense drawing upon fear levels for detection... that makes sense utterly useless until counselors fear starts to rise. Jason would have to be in their presence or waste several morphs to smash power boxes to put out the lights to raise fear levels enough just to sense anyone.... As I stated previously... a good team can get both cars moving before he gets his first shift... then the lobby is almost empty all of a sudden.... long before anyone's fear rose to a level where he could sense them. Sensing counselors is necessary for Jason to have a chance at getting even a few kills in a game.

   What would the point be in using sense avoidance perks at all if Jason cannot sense you for any amount of time at the beginning of the game.... and they do work well, just not 100% of the time... and nothing should be 100%... that would be perfection, and perfection is unobtainable and unrealistic.... we are all human, and humans are pretty far from perfect. We all make mistakes under optimal conditions, let alone if you have an actual threat to your life mixed in to the circumstances.... stress kills, and the only people that work well under stress are people that have trained hard for years to do it.... or they are just too stupid to know there is a threat to them nearby.

   If this game revolved around hiding, it would be pretty boring. I have seen many games in which most of the players tried that... everyone else did nothing but complain about the people hiding and not helping with the objectives. Hiding is an option for sure, but it is best used as part of a strategy, not as an entire strategy. In the movies, it may have taken him a minute or two, but Jason found the people that were hiding... every time.... in the game, it is guess work to find a specific hiding spot inside a cabin at least, even in rage... and yes, I know the counselor's fear makes them say stupid things, just like people do in real life... and that cuts down on Jason's guess work, just like it would in real life.

   Jason going into rage quicker is a big problem for stealth counselors and is a bad idea.

   Sorry for the long post... but there were quite a few points to address.

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2 hours ago, Ahab said:

@JennyMyers1984 It is a bit terminator like... I agree. But some game mechanics will be unrealistic just for playability. I like more realism where it can be added... but as far as stealth goes, it should stick to noise pings. Movement will always be noticeable and draw your attention, so standing still when you are at a distance can help you go unnoticed... that is realistic.
   As far as sense lighting someone up as it does.... I can agree that it does not need to give away your exact position, but it should keep it close.... the big red cloud sounds reasonable to me.... but not too big.... and Jason is the closest thing to the terminator that you will find outside of robotics.... and the counselors are not ninjas, nor should they be buffed into being ninjas. They are in fact the furthest you can get from being a ninja. Everyone in the game should make the occasional noise ping at the very least... even a ninja cannot open a closet with creaky hinges without making noise... or walk through a forest in the dark in complete silence... a leaf or a twig that even the sharpest observer didn't see will still make noise when they step on it... and forests are full of leaves and twigs that no one will see in the dark... or even with a flashlight when under the stresses of a psycho chasing you down... Most people do not even pay that much attention to where they are stepping even when trying to be quiet.

   However, your example of Jason and Chris Higgins in the barn is just like it is in the game. She was hiding above him and not making any noise... all was quiet in the Higgins barn at the time and if she made a noise... that would have been it for her... but let us think of sense playing out this scenario in the game (Without hiding in the rafters, obviously). Sense will show Jason that she is in the barn... but will not show her position once he is inside... only the noise she makes can do that being she is out of his sight. He did not notice her until she made noise. I think this is a scenario that they used to model sense on... along with the noise pings and related mechanics. There are probably a few more they thought of as well. It is not perfect, but what is?
   In the movies... it sure did appear that Jason knew where almost everyone was before he killed them, without them knowing he was there. This is hard to reproduce for a video game and not everyone will be happy with any one mechanic. Remember to keep both sides of play in mind. Try to play Jason without using sense at all against a group of half descent players... then you will appreciate it a bit more.
   I think the big red glowing house is used simply so that Jason knows someone is in the cabin, not how many are in the cabin... sound pings are to be used in determining that... hence, stealth is useful as it is... let the lead feet take the heat and then sneak away... but, sneaking away will not always work, if the person you are sneaking away from takes a look in your direction.... or the lead footed counselor will not leave your side.

   I can't get behind sense drawing upon fear levels for detection... that makes sense utterly useless until counselors fear starts to rise. Jason would have to be in their presence or waste several morphs to smash power boxes to put out the lights to raise fear levels enough just to sense anyone.... As I stated previously... a good team can get both cars moving before he gets his first shift... then the lobby is almost empty all of a sudden.... long before anyone's fear rose to a level where he could sense them. Sensing counselors is necessary for Jason to have a chance at getting even a few kills in a game.

   What would the point be in using sense avoidance perks at all if Jason cannot sense you for any amount of time at the beginning of the game.... and they do work well, just not 100% of the time... and nothing should be 100%... that would be perfection, and perfection is unobtainable and unrealistic.... we are all human, and humans are pretty far from perfect. We all make mistakes under optimal conditions, let alone if you have an actual threat to your life mixed in to the circumstances.... stress kills, and the only people that work well under stress are people that have trained hard for years to do it.... or they are just too stupid to know there is a threat to them nearby.

   If this game revolved around hiding, it would be pretty boring. I have seen many games in which most of the players tried that... everyone else did nothing but complain about the people hiding and not helping with the objectives. Hiding is an option for sure, but it is best used as part of a strategy, not as an entire strategy. In the movies, it may have taken him a minute or two, but Jason found the people that were hiding... every time.... in the game, it is guess work to find a specific hiding spot inside a cabin at least, even in rage... and yes, I know the counselor's fear makes them say stupid things, just like people do in real life... and that cuts down on Jason's guess work, just like it would in real life.

   Jason going into rage quicker is a big problem for stealth counselors and is a bad idea.

   Sorry for the long post... but there were quite a few points to address.

I hate bringing it up (trust me I really do) but look at DBD. Survivors can sneak away unnoticed by the killer, however that is not all the time. Unless the killer has a perk, he cannot see your red aura ever. You will never get away from Jason when he has on sense unless an objective is going off. You may think you got away from him when he morphs away but more than likely he stopped chasing you because the phone box or car is going and he has to stop it. Jason makes mistakes, he is not a perfect killer...sense should not give away your exact location until your fear levels are high, period. Well...pick your poison, some people want hiding and some people want fighting, you cannot please everybody simply because if you play the way you want than people will be like “buff Jason”. I honestly never play stealthy unless I have to. I’ll constantly stun Jason because I’m not going to be undetected by sense. I only hide in certain areas that Jason rarely looks (like behind the refrigerator in the basement of the Jarvis House). There is no point in running a situational sense avoidance perk, that’s why everybody has marathon, medic, thick skinned, sucker punch, and swift attacker that they use throughout the entire round and is usedul the entire round. There is no fun (when I’m Jason) in being like “Oh I see AJ glowing red on the other side of the map, let me go morph on her.” Followed by a shift grab and a kill. It becomes boring to wipe an entire lobby of people with no challenge. I don’t know what kind of QP experiences everybody has had, but the majority of mine has been wiping a lobby that poses no challenge. Is that what people want? To have an easy job as Jason with helpless counselors? That is extremely boring if you ask me.

With the Chris Higgins and Jason example, that would work well in the game if there was possibly a second level to the barn or more places to hide. You can’t really hide in any corners of any house that isn’t a main house (Higgins, Packanack, and Jarvis House...the Vacation House is actually a really bad place to hide). I do believe that sense needs a rework and tie it into composure and stealth in SOME way without giving away the counselors direct positions.

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14 hours ago, GeneiJin said:

I generally don't care about how stealth is currently, I think its good for what it is, even if its not among the stronger stats.  If it was buffed however, anything that would make my Jenny even better is welcomed :D, but in no way should it allow the last surviving counselor undetectable to Jason late game.

Hopefully the changes only benefit stealth above 7?

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4 minutes ago, TiffanyIsBae said:

Hopefully the changes only benefit stealth above 7?

Jenny's real stat is 8.5 anyways

She is the final girl afterall.

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2 hours ago, Armani? said:

Jenny's real stat is 8.5 anyways

She is the final girl afterall.

Never said she wasn’t. Jenny’s 8.5 only works at a certain range. 

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I don't want any changes to stealth. I think it is fun. If they buffed it, it could be way too OP. 

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On ‎12‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 3:54 AM, TiffanyIsBae said:

Stealth has no impact in the game. On paper it sounds helpful. But it really isn't. If you didn't know, stealth reduces how much noise a counselor makes, and reduces the white blimps that Jason can see. 

I used to play AJ, since I like her ninja playstyle. I had an epic for Lightfoot, and I still saw my icon make a white blimp. The stat is not consistent, I always make white blimps when I'm jogging, jogging, not running. AJ and Tiffany have the highest stealth, but are considered to be one of the worst counselors. Why? Because they have to much invested into stealth. "You can juke Jason with stealth." Ok but as Tiffany, which will still not help you. There is no juking in this game. 

It’s been several months since this thread was made and since then we haven’t gotten any discussion about the worst stat in the game from the devs. 

Here’s some ideas that would definitely help the stat better;

9-10/10 Stealth | Grants the ability to sprint without producing any noise. 

6-8/10 | Decreases amount of blimps made. 

New bonuses - Increases movement speed while crouching, only available or noticeable by 7 stealth and above. While crouching, decreases the chances of Jason sensing you, available at all stages of the match. 

 

Bonus and must have - counselors make less noise by leaving windows, opening and closing doors, and their screams are quieter than others. They also make less noise by going into hiding spots, and increasing the speed they can go into them. Fear no longer affects stealth.

I actually don´t like it when I am Jason and they have high stealth and I have to Morph around the map to find them. Especially in Offline-Bots it is extremely annoying. Once upon a time in Offline-Bots , In 3 minutes or so I killed 7 counselors but they called Tommy... I didn´t find him and waited another 12 minutes to get rage....

Tiffany and A.J. are considered bad? How can Jenny be considered better? And Tiffany and A.J. aren´t really played rarely.

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Why change mechanics? Stealth is what it is and has been from the start. 

If you give any chance for counselors to avoid being detected by sense alltogether, it will only make playing Jason unbearable and rise the survivalrate very high. 

Again, the gameplay should reflect the level of quality players, not the qp newbies that havent learned how the game mechanics work.

ps. @Ahab my  thoughts exactly. 

 

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IMO the best way to make stealth game play more enjoyable for both Jason and Counselors is to swap Stalk and Sense.

Stalk should come into affect early..  And work like Sense when it comes to turning it off/recharging.  Without a forced full cool down.  

Sense should come in much later in the match (Like stalk is currently)  and have a forced full cool down like Sense currently has.  To prevent sense spam.

I think something as simple as that would really make stealth game play alot more enjoyable.

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I do feel like stealth is pointless. Jason finds you eventually regardless, and I'd rather be playing a speed character than a slow character when that does happen. That being said, I'm not even sure what they could do to fix stealth, I think it's just stuck this way.

 

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1 hour ago, HuDawg said:

IMO the best way to make stealth game play more enjoyable for both Jason and Counselors is to swap Stalk and Sense.

Stalk should come into affect early..  And work like Sense when it comes to turning it off/recharging.  Without a forced full cool down.  

Sense should come in much later in the match (Like stalk is currently)  and have a forced full cool down like Sense currently has.  To prevent sense spam.

I think something as simple as that would really make stealth game play alot more enjoyable.

I think the order is good as it is. Morph first so you can get to the objectives quick. Then sense so you get an idea of whose close. Then shift, so you can catch the counselors and last stalk where you can benefit all of the above.

I see no reason to change these. If you nerf Jasons abilities even a bit, you have no chance against a semi- desent group.

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57 minutes ago, FinalBoy said:

I do feel like stealth is pointless. Jason finds you eventuay regardless, and I'd rather be playing a speed character than a slow character when that does happen. That being said, I'm not even sure what they could do to fix stealth, I think it's just stuck this way.

 

 

9 minutes ago, lasse_hei said:

I think the order is good as it is. Morph first so you can get to the objectives quick. Then sense so you get an idea of whose close. Then shift, so you can catch the counselors and last stalk where you can benefit all of the above.

I see no reason to change these. If you nerf Jasons abilities even a bit, you have no chance against a semi- desent group.

I think if we really want to have a stealth heavy game a new mode should be introduced. Jason can get his powers in a different order, Morph last and the counselors have different goals. Maybe a sneak in the camp at night story, need to find something left behind during an escape. 

I would like them to consider trying to re-work stealth in a side mode first, then move it to regular QP if it's a better fit.

Edit - @HuDawg's idea for the order could work.

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6 minutes ago, lasse_hei said:

I think the order is good as it is. Morph first so you can get to the objectives quick. Then sense so you get an idea of whose close. Then shift, so you can catch the counselors and last stalk where you can benefit all of the above.

I see no reason to change these. If you nerf Jasons abilities even a bit, you have no chance against a semi- desent group.

I disagree and think everything is backwards when it comes to sense and stalk.

Stalk is money..  Stalk is where the Stealth game play comes into play with Jason.

Early Sense is just basically useless.    And early Sense pretty much removes alot of Counselors ability to be sneaky too.  

Whats the point of Sense anyways so early?  Id rather have stalk...  and 'stalk' noise pings.    Then Sense and see people run away so easily.

 

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1 hour ago, FinalBoy said:

I do feel like stealth is pointless. Jason finds you eventuay regardless, and I'd rather be playing a speed character than a slow character when that does happen. That being said, I'm not even sure what they could do to fix stealth, I think it's just stuck this way.

 

They can just buff the stat overall a little bit.

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Stealth and sense need slight adjustments or you guys are gonna have the same fighting counselors that you hate. There is nothing for counselors to do other than fight Jason because being stealthy rarely works. Why do you think Vanessa is the most played counselor? Because stealth is USELESS and none of her points go toward stealth. Stealth should offset sense to some extent like it claims it does and sense should not pin point the counselors exact location period. Jason does not have X-Ray vision nor is he the Terminator. We all want Jason to be buffed yet one slight adjustment to a counselor stat, everybody screams it is a nerf to Jason when it isn’t. Stealth isn’t the only thing that needs to be adjusted either. Strength and luck should have a little bit more weight than they already do. I remember back in the first month of the release, Jenny and Chad could take a little bit more damage than AJ could, AJ got injured a lot quicker and now all the counselors get injured at the same rate without any perks.

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I think one of the problems with Stealth as of now is that it doesn't do enough to warrant much consideration unless the value is at least 9/10, and all it does is eliminate sound pings when jogging unless you're incredibly close to Jason.

If anything, Stealth needs a slight overhaul or additions in mechanics to help add more to the cat-and-mouse, hide-and-seek theme of the game. Make playing a Stealth focused Counselor more intuitive than just reducing the range of sound pings when moving, such as:

  • Reducing the audio of opening/closing drawers, doors, windows, and cabinets for Stealthy Counselors, as well as climbing through windows and footsteps, except when jogging and sprinting.
  • Allowing Counselors with a 6-7/10 to jog silently, and a 8-9 to sprint silently. In exchange, these features will not work if at medium or high Fear Levels. 10/10 Stealth means no sound blips when jogging or running regardless of Fear Levels, although sound blips are still emitting when traversing in water.
  • Replacing the crawling animation for crouch-walking, while also increasing the base speed.
  • Making Stealth actually decide whether or not if you will appear in Sense mode, so as long as certain circumstances are met beforehand. For example, if a Counselor with a 6/10 and above in Stealth is within Sense range, have accumulated little Fear Levels, while Jason is not currently in Rage Mode, the Counselor will not be detected.
  • Preventing high Stealth or high Composure Counselors from whimpering and panicking to themselves when Jason destroys a power box, and have them gasp for a moment instead.

Keep in mind that I'm not suggesting that all of these ideas should be accepted all at once, as they are just some ideas I've seen around the forum to give Stealth a boost in viability.

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3 hours ago, RichWalk9891 said:

I think one of the problems with Stealth as of now is that it doesn't do enough to warrant much consideration unless the value is at least 9/10, and all it does is eliminate sound pings when jogging unless you're incredibly close to Jason.

If anything, Stealth needs a slight overhaul or additions in mechanics to help add more to the cat-and-mouse, hide-and-seek theme of the game. Make playing a Stealth focused Counselor more intuitive than just reducing the range of sound pings when moving, such as:

  • Reducing the audio of opening/closing drawers, doors, windows, and cabinets for Stealthy Counselors, as well as climbing through windows and footsteps, except when jogging and sprinting.
  • Allowing Counselors with a 6-7/10 to jog silently, and a 8-9 to sprint silently. In exchange, these features will not work if at medium or high Fear Levels. 10/10 Stealth means no sound blips when jogging or running regardless of Fear Levels, although sound blips are still emitting when traversing in water.
  • Replacing the crawling animation for crouch-walking, while also increasing the base speed.
  • Making Stealth actually decide whether or not if you will appear in Sense mode, so as long as certain circumstances are met beforehand. For example, if a Counselor with a 6/10 and above in Stealth is within Sense range, have accumulated little Fear Levels, while Jason is not currently in Rage Mode, the Counselor will not be detected.
  • Preventing high Stealth or high Composure Counselors from whimpering and panicking to themselves when Jason destroys a power box, and have them gasp for a moment instead.

Keep in mind that I'm not suggesting that all of these ideas should be accepted all at once, as they are just some ideas I've seen around the forum to give Stealth a boost in viability.

Lol imagine how OP Tiffany would be.

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35 minutes ago, Gummybish said:

Lol imagine how OP Tiffany would be.

She still can’t fix or protect as well as Vanessa. Doubt she’d be OP, just make her highest stat actually useful. 

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I wish stealth worked on other players, nothing I hate more than someone following me around the entire game, not contributing to anything other than getting me killed.

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1 hour ago, Mr. Warm Mouth said:

I wish stealth worked on other players, nothing I hate more than someone following me around the entire game, not contributing to anything other than getting me killed.

That's why I kinda miss team killing, I use to warn people not to follow or they'll die and if they didn't I shot them. I don't care I wasted the gun, it kept me from dealing with that person blowing my cover. Now you have them screaming and such which just makes me want to shoot them even more.

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Yeah I hear ya on that. What I do now is I set traps by the windows. I also lock myself in a room or simply hide in a closet or under a bed and they literally stand there forever, waiting for me to come out. I honestly do not understand why players do this.

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1 hour ago, Mr. Warm Mouth said:

Yeah I hear ya on that. What I do now is I set traps by the windows. I also lock myself in a room or simply hide in a closet or under a bed and they literally stand there forever, waiting for me to come out. I honestly do not understand why players do this.

Trolls or people hoping you'll help them escape.

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