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tyrant666

"Jason hasn't been nerfed, the Counselors have just gotten better" Do you believe this?

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1 hour ago, ThePunkPirate said:

Im glad someone posted this. I didnt bother listing any of it when I did my tests cause I was focused on stats and damage output but I ran into the same conclusions as you guys. The one thing I cant seem to get definitive data on myself though is where the hitbox is specifically for each weapon. I know theres been debate whether its based on say the ax head or the tip of the spear on the respectful Jasons, but to me its very inconclusive and inconsistent.

I don't think it's just the head of the weapon. I think it may also include the haft of the weapon extending above Jason's grip point. It is hard to tell in some cases. I'll try to pay attention to it if we can get the guys back on for testing later.

 

5a1c4919bd44d_GrabElaboration.jpg.a80156d4c83e2de7761d0341f95c4e2b.jpg

Here is another graphic showing how hitbox positioning affects Jason's perceived grab range. I think it was this positioning relative to the old Cone grab that made a huge difference in terms of how long it appeared to be in some of the more outrageous examples. The cone was bigger than this cylinder, but I think some of the craziness of seeing out-of-logic grabs might have been tied to positioning of the counselor hitboxes in relation to the edges of the old AoE. That invisible "might getcha" potential grab zone would have been quite expansive.

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22 minutes ago, thatdudescott said:

So....

Uh..Where's that new community manager again?

Soon.

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On ‎11‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 7:17 AM, tyrant666 said:

While watching Randy play in the stream in the other night.

He would mention things would always be open to changes.

But whenever he directly addressed the nature of Jason play lately. His opinion is that Jason really hasn't been nerfed, but the counselors have just gotten better, which has made it harder for Jason to have easier games.

I just wonder if anybody agrees with that logic? While it may be true for the seasoned counselor players. How does that explain why Jason players haven't counter improved against even new counselors? Seasoned Jason players or even noobs for that matter?

While he did mention it comes down to the skill level of the players. It just begs to question.

There was literally one point in the stream where a Tommy and Chad were outright trolling Jason. Tommy was literally running right around and right on top of Jason and he couldn't grab the Tommy directly in front of him. Randy kept saying the mistake the Jason player was making was relying on grab constantly and instead he should've used his melee weapon. Melee isn't all that reliable either, especially up against objects, walls, etc.

He would talk about how his prior grab range was actually a bug that was fixed. Same for trap stacking not being intentional. While I've never cared or argued one way or the other for trap stacking. I'm surprised given the evidence was right in front of him of Jason whiffing Tommy directly in front of him now that he thought melee would be the obvious and easy counter.

I don't want to be a jerk and question his skill set of the game. I just hope the overall dev team sees more.

Also, if there is a topic about that stream the other night, feel free to close this.

tumblr_nuwpwjKcLj1tf76g1o1_400.gif

skill level has a lot to do with it, but so does ping. I  have been playing since May, and have well over 2600 kills as Jason, and can honestly say, if I am playing as Jason and trying to hunt down a Vanessa with a 300 ping, its a lot of work trying to kill her. If that same player happens to be a 101 level, it just adds to it. I personally understand why they nerfed Jasons grab range, however it is a little too nerfed. If you are an inexperienced Jason player, you will probably be so frustrated that you wont want to play Jason ever again.

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Yep. Gun has definitely let greed corrupt their minds just like DBD's Behavior Interactive. They don't care about being true to the movies. All they care about is pleasing the entitled whiny counselor kids. Sad to hear about this. Guess one day we'll be seeing Jason hit a counselor 3-5 times with a melee attack to put them a crippled state so he can grab them. :( 

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48 minutes ago, WashingtonJones said:

What were your pings?

Ghost was at about 80, Bears was at around 150, not sure on mine since I was host. I don't recall what Hanson was sitting at.

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49 minutes ago, humerabi said:

skill level has a lot to do with it, but so does ping.

How do pings affect things in F13?

I'm aware in first person shooters that a high ping helps the shooter. The server gives the high ping player a bigger window of time for a hit to register. So if the person getting shot makes it behind cover in time, he still gets hit cause the server said it's ok.

Some of F13s detection issues might be due to the server's hit window. In rounds as Jason against 200+ ping players, I'll go for a grab and make the connection, the counselor will still be in the back-swing part of their animation and i still get stunned, without it visually connecting. 

And when they do internal testing, are the simulating high ping situations?

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11 minutes ago, WashingtonJones said:

How do pings affect things in F13?

I'm aware in first person shooters that a high ping helps the shooter. The server gives the high ping player a bigger window of time for a hit to register. So if the person getting shot makes it behind cover in time, he still gets hit cause the server said it's ok.

Some of F13s detection issues might be due to the server's hit window. In rounds as Jason against 200+ ping players, I'll go for a grab and make the connection, the counselor will still be in their back swing and i still get stunned, without it connecting. 

And when they do internal testing, are the simulating high ping situations?

Well a person with high ping will see things split seconds after they have passed. As an example, you may swing at a counselor, think you hit, but you actually missed because they were slightly offset from where they appeared on your screen due to lag. For someone going after another player suffering a high ping, they may appear to jump/shift position in a jerky manner. A person not lagging, going after someone who is, I find to be not as difficult to manage as being the one lagging.

In terms of static testing, ping makes no difference. If the counselor and Jason are both static in position to test a grab or weapon swing, lag isn't even a concern. The delay doesn't result in an offset of their positions. In dynamic testing, ping can play a role. In practical terms, ping at 200+ will noticeably affect gameplay. Ping lower than 200 typically has no meaningful impact in my experience. At peak hours I will typically have to play at 250+ ping and you can feel the difference. Below 200 it is not appreciable. Late at night my ping typically ranges from 120-180, though I've had it down in the 80-100 range. Feels about the same.

EDIT: Also, one person lagging is not too bad to deal with, but if multiple people in the lobby are hitting 200+ ping things get a bit wonky. The P2P connection we currently have puts a lot of the burden on the host. If they have low ping, it tends to spread across the lobby. If the host has great ping, they player's individual pings tend to be more reflective of their actual ping rather than getting some bleed over from a bad ping host. I won't host actual game lobbies because my ping is too high for my liking and it will affect others more profoundly if I do.

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I remember being in a game where Jason had a 900+ ping.  It was actually harder to read and avoid him since he appeared to be mini morphing, but he eventually got disconnected.

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41 minutes ago, Alkavian said:

Well a person with high ping will see things split seconds after they have passed. As an example, you may swing at a counselor, think you hit, but you actually missed because they were slightly offset from where they appeared on your screen due to lag.

That's where the concern is. I can't find the video that I watched for one of the big fps games, but it showed that the server's acceptability window was over 200ms.

With a split screen of the shooter and the target player; the target player's screen would show that he ran behind a wall and was fully covered, while the shooter's screen showed that the target was still running towards the wall. When the shooter shot, the target player got hit, even though the target player's screen shows he was well behind the wall and within plenty of time.

Pings aren't really static, in a sense, because the server is stretching the window of opportunity to compensate for everybody. Maybe it's variable, or maybe it's one big set number. I really don't know enough about it.

 

@Alkavian If you guys do more testing, could you do motion stuff with high and low ping counselors?

@GunMedia_Ben @wes @[IllFonic]Courier I'm also wondering if the mechanics are uniform across all platforms. In my 700 hours on PC, I've never seen anyone duck a melee attack with crouch, or even attempt it. 

And do the PC's dedicated servers compensate for ping differently than consoles?

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6 minutes ago, WashingtonJones said:

@Alkavian If you guys do more testing, could you do motion stuff with high and low ping counselors?

I'm also wondering if the mechanics are uniform across all platforms. In my 700 hours on PC, I've never seen anyone duck a melee attack with crouch, or even attempt it. 

And do the PC's dedicated servers compensate for ping differently than consoles?

Sure, we can give it a shot if I can get the group on tonight. You want to see if someone can actually duck in time to avoid a Jason melee attack?

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13 minutes ago, WashingtonJones said:

I'm also wondering if the mechanics are uniform across all platforms. In my 700 hours on PC, I've never seen anyone duck a melee attack with crouch, or even attempt it. 

 

Ive seen people say this as well and seen it work spectating, but I can't confirm if it was just a bad aim, or a character in the middle of an animation at the time (on PS4)

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Its good to see this thread exploded as it should've.

I felt Randy's take on the current state of the game during his stream was valid enough to warrant a topic. I'm not gonna say they all share his opinion, but its very alarming. Especially with the evidence right in front of him in one of those matches.

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Just now, Alkavian said:

You want to see if someone can actually duck in time to avoid a Jason melee attack?

I'm talking about the same grab and melee tests you guys did when the counselors were moving. If you have the time, do one each for a high ping counselor and for a low ping counselor. The one I'm most interested in is the crouch walking that caused my beloved Jason 8 to miss every hit. But I'd also like to see if it has much of an effect on grabbing too.

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16 minutes ago, Alkavian said:

Sure, we can give it a shot if I can get the group on tonight. You want to see if someone can actually duck in time to avoid a Jason melee attack?

I'll try to be on and we can stream the whole thing live...Then we can do on-the-fly tests people might want to see.

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2 minutes ago, tyrant666 said:

Its good to see this thread exploded as it should've.

I felt Randy's take on the current state of the game during his stream was valid enough to warrant a topic. I'm not gonna say they all share his opinion, but its very alarming. Especially with the evidence right in front of him in one of those matches.

 It feels like a slap in the face that he (or anyone at Gun for that matter)has yet to acknowledge the issues still persisting. They have either deluded themselves from reality or  simply have no care about the quality of the content they push out.

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13 minutes ago, WashingtonJones said:

I'm talking about the same grab and melee tests you guys did when the counselors were moving. If you have the time, do one each for a high ping counselor and for a low ping counselor. The one I'm most interested in is the crouch walking that caused my beloved Jason 8 to miss every hit. But I'd also like to see if it has much of an effect on grabbing too.

Okey dokey. We'll look into it.

10 minutes ago, AldermachXI said:

I'll try to be on and we can stream the whole thing live...Then we can do on-the-fly tests people might want to see.

Sounds good Alder. @bewareofbears and @TheHansonGoons you guys going to be available this evening?

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1 hour ago, Alkavian said:

Okey dokey. We'll look into it.

Sounds good Alder. @bewareofbears and @TheHansonGoons you guys going to be available this evening?

Possibly. Won't be until late if I am still awake. A live stream is a good idea alder. Sometime we should rerun the pocket knife test. 4 on Higgins was the count last night. That was against part 8 Jason that has 5 traps.

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2 minutes ago, TheHansonGoons said:

Possibly. Won't be until late if I am still awake. A live stream is a good idea alder. Sometime we should rerun the pocket knife test. 4 on Higgins was the count last night. That was against part 8 Jason that has 5 traps.

Pocket knife tests would be interesting to see the results for...That's one of those things that should be set in stone, whether it be for each map, each Jason, etc. The devs should be able to give us definite answers when it comes to that.

I really wish item spawning could be way more random, too. Feels like there's 4-5 set pieces that get rotated at random.

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23 minutes ago, AldermachXI said:

Pocket knife tests would be interesting to see the results for...That's one of those things that should be set in stone, whether it be for each map, each Jason, etc. The devs should be able to give us definite answers when it comes to that.

I really wish item spawning could be way more random, too. Feels like there's 4-5 set pieces that get rotated at random.

I agree. We found 4 on Higgins main. 5 if you include Tommy's. Would like to run this again a couple times and see if it is random, or a set amount.

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Randy said "Jason hasn't been nerfed, the counselors have just gotten better"

Video shows this...:lol:

 

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2 minutes ago, GhostWolfViking said:

Randy said "Jason hasn't been nerfed, the counselors have just gotten better"

Video shows this...:lol:

 

None of that actually happened, you must be confused. 

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