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"Jason hasn't been nerfed, the Counselors have just gotten better" Do you believe this?

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27 minutes ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

Here's an example of the poor melee hit detection in a "real" match.

Jason can't even hit a crouching counselor with the power attack. Like, what the actual fuck...

Wow. GIT GUD,I guess? That's what everyone says.....

And it's bullshit.

I was in a match earlier and in the lobby two people were bragging about whoever gets Jason is going to be mad. 

I got Jason.

90% I was followed by two Chad's who made it their mission to be as annoying as possible. The way the grab and hit detection is now,it was impossible to get them. There was no amount of "getting gud" that would have helped. They were glitching,they were trolls,and they were taking advantage of the current state of the game. It wasn't even the whiffed grabs but the constant swinging and hitting nothing but air. 

 

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40 minutes ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

Here's an example of the poor melee hit detection in a "real" match.

Jason can't even hit a crouching counselor with the power attack. Like, what the actual fuck...

This is pathetic, anyone else wanna claim that Jason is "fine"?

So the melee is horribly broken and Jason has to practically be kissing a counselor to grab them. Just.......Good job Devs......Good Job.

 

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1 hour ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

Here's an example of the poor melee hit detection in a "real" match.

Jason can't even hit a crouching counselor with the power attack. Like, what the actual fuck...

Well, I'm glad our test results line up with actual match play. This is so sad....:(

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16 hours ago, Alkavian said:

I honestly don't think it is auto-aim or thumbstick bumps. I think it is the step forward animation causing Jason's hitbox (weapon or body) to clip into the counselor hit box, which causes him to turn because his own hitbox is snagged. I could be wrong.

Watch this in super slo mo.

During the "melee close" attack, look at the position of his feet on the rug, before and after the attack. They barely change position. That shows that the swing animation does not cause him to turn. 

At the start of the "close left" attack, he's facing the wall. After the attack he's facing Jenny. 

The "close right" attack is the most noticeable one. It looks like a jump cut. 

If you go frame by frame (pause it, and press "," to go 1 frame back and "." to go 1 frame forward), you'll notice that his position changes at the very first frame of the swing animation, before any collisions happen. 

What else could this be? Is aim-assist the wrong term? 

Weapons Guidance maybe? That sounds too military.

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1 hour ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

Here's an example of the poor melee hit detection in a "real" match.

Jason can't even hit a crouching counselor with the power attack. Like, what the actual fuck...

@Alkavian and @TheHansonGoons ran into this in our tests, I think @GhostWolfViking was there for it also. It's embarrassing how impotent Jason is...

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17 minutes ago, WashingtonJones said:

Watch this in super slo mo.

During the "melee close" attack, look at the position of his feet on the rug, before and after the attack. They barely change position. That shows that the swing animation does not cause him to turn. 

At the start of the "close left" attack, he's facing the wall. After the attack he's facing Jenny. 

The "close right" attack is the most noticeable one. It looks like a jump cut. 

If you go frame by frame (pause it, and press "," to go 1 frame back and "." to go 1 frame forward), you'll notice that his position changes at the very first frame of the swing animation, before any collisions happen. 

What else could this be? Is aim-assist the wrong term? 

Weapons Guidance maybe? That sounds too military.

This is quite interesting.

Makes me wonder if it could be some form of collision avoidance built into the animation that has gone wonky. I'll need to give this some thought. Thanks for the heads up.

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12 hours ago, thatdudescott said:

I'm just glad they fixed the forum color scheme.

Yes, highest priority.

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can´t read trough all this atm. did the devs at least admit that grabbing trough heads and missing while standing still a is a thing? or do we need to spam jasonkillsbugs with videos of it?

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1 hour ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

can´t read trough all this atm. did the devs at least admit that grabbing trough heads and missing while standing still a is a thing? or do we need to spam jasonkillsbugs with videos of it?

On 11/27/2017 at 8:27 PM, [IllFonic]Courier said:

We acknowledge that Jason currently requires some additional tuning and we will be releasing a few posts in these following weeks with information regarding some of the recent balance changes.

There is currently no ETA for the new patch at this time, but the plan is to release the patch immediately after everything has been completed and approved on all the platforms.

 

Just this,from another thread.

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7 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

can´t read trough all this atm. did the devs at least admit that grabbing trough heads and missing while standing still a is a thing? or do we need to spam jasonkillsbugs with videos of it?

Jason doesn't kill bugs. They kill him, apparently.

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1 hour ago, AldermachXI said:

Jason doesn't kill bugs. They kill him, apparently.

I see what you did there Q2GQBuf.png

Some of these issues might be addressed in next patch. I believe collision detection errors would fall under bugs. There is a possibility that if collision detection is fixed then maybe the last Jason grab nerf might not be as bad as it seems now. The videos seem to show that he can grab a a decent distance if directly in front of him, so if collision is improved a lot of these issues might be ironed out. Guess we will just have to wait and see.

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For me playing as Jason has been just as easy as before, but for some reason I feel its easier to avoid and escape as counselors. Just my opinion!

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2 minutes ago, TiffanyCox said:

For me playing as Jason has been just as easy as before, but for some reason I feel its easier to avoid and escape as counselors. Just my opinion!

Because Jason was nerfed, yet most of the playerbase isn't good enough for the nerfs to matter at all.

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1 minute ago, MichaelMemers said:

Because Jason was nerfed, yet most of the playerbase isn't good enough for the nerfs to matter at all.

Exactly, people need to start reading "how to play" or even Gun needs to make the "how to play" more accurate to most peoples gameplay!

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Its getting real hard to play this game, with Jason now being a total joke, bugs, hosts leaving before they get killed, this game is officially dying, all the die hard Friday the 13 fans(and people who supported the game) are pretty much gone.

I only played private matches with cool people, but now a list of 20 plus people that would be playing has dwindled down to 1 or 2.

Great Job Gunn

 

 

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4 hours ago, TiffanyCox said:

For me playing as Jason has been just as easy as before, but for some reason I feel its easier to avoid and escape as counselors. Just my opinion!

I would say to come play with the people I play with in private , but 98% of them dont play the game anymore, Gunn ruined this game

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4 hours ago, TiffanyCox said:

Exactly, people need to start reading "how to play" or even Gun needs to make the "how to play" more accurate to most peoples gameplay!

Very true. And yes, I would love official "how to's."  

The mechanics of this game were very difficult, and it took a while for me to get comfortable with them; so I would use everything at my disposal (all his abilities) and every possible tactic, outside of cheating.

It's like diversifying your funds. Even if one of your big money makers drops out, you're still good because you got 3 or 4 other things earning.

I used to think I wasn't that good at Jason, until I started to come here more often. Most people, I would assume, would rely on 1 or 2 things to win. If you fuck with one of those things, ur gonna have to learn 2 more new things to balance out that one loss. That's frustrating. 

It happened to me after the patch, because I never slashed. I was all about map checking, Shift-grabbing, Stalking, and Stalk/Shift-grabbing. But then I started getting beaten up too much. Everyone said that you have to slash, and once I added it everything went back to normal fun again.

And I'm sure it's not that interesting to most people to test out the mechanics. Knowing where the lines are drawn is also important....to me at least. I worry less.  

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33 minutes ago, WashingtonJones said:

Very true. And yes, I would love official "how to's."  

The mechanics of this game were very difficult, and it took a while for me to get comfortable with them; so I would use everything at my disposal (all his abilities) and every possible tactic, outside of cheating.

It's like diversifying your funds. Even if one of your big money makers drops out, you're still good because you got 3 or 4 other things earning.

I used to think I wasn't that good at Jason, until I started to come here more often. Most people, I would assume, would rely on 1 or 2 things to win. If you fuck with one of those things, ur gonna have to learn 2 more new things to balance out that one loss. That's frustrating. 

It happened to me after the patch, because I never slashed. I was all about map checking, Shift-grabbing, Stalking, and Stalk/Shift-grabbing. But then I started getting beaten up too much. Everyone said that you have to slash, and once I added it everything went back to normal fun again.

And I'm sure it's not that interesting to most people to test out the mechanics. Knowing where the lines are drawn is also important....to me at least. I worry less.  

Official "how to's" are generally terrible because devs tend to be not up to date with the meta at best and outright bad at their games at worst. I saw some of Randy Greenback's last stream and multiple times in the same match he would strike Jason after he had already been stunned, breaking his bats in one hit as he was playing as AJ. If you watch the Dead by Daylight devs, there's no way the vast majority of them would make it past rank 18, which explains why the game is so stacked in favour of survivors at high ranks. I remember the DbD "How to play" videos would tell you to hide in closets, when closets were completely useless for roughly the first half a year of the game's lifespan because you would make tons of noise while inside and draw the killer to you.

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                Ok this is my real opinion on this. Check out my original post on this topic on page one if you want a laugh. 

               Before the 10/27/17 patch anyone could use Jason and be fairly successful due to the overpowered grab range. Even a new Jason could run people down and kill them. Jason was powerful and escaping took strategy and experience. It was not impossible but you had to spend a few rounds getting murdered before you found your groove. Some people like myself felt this was acceptable because Jason is supposed to feel powerful and overpowered in my opinion. Some people thought that Jason was completely unfair and the game was unfair as a result. 

                   After Jason's grab and traps were nerfed in the 10/27/17 patch players that had learned how to evade the long arm of Jason were now overpowered. Because they had taken the time to learn how to survive they could barely be touched. I personally remembered pulling off some things I shouldn't have been able to do without getting slaughtered and thinking "I should be dead." This lead to me posting a thread on the first of November requesting a new patch to shore up Jason's balance. 

                              The main problem with Jason at the moment stems from his melee attacks being broken and extremely short range. The overpowered grab was covering this up for the most part. How broken is the melee system? Well I would say that currently the Councilors are better fighters then Jason. Mainly because all the Councilors need to do is hit a slashing Jason one time with a high stun weapon even after taking enough damage to leave them limping. Once Jason is stunned they heal themselves and run away. That coupled with the fact there are seven of them and one Jason has been leading to the Jason beat downs we have been seeing lately. The grab also needs to be tuned up so the Councilors can't just run past you especially if they are going to keep it short range. Grabbing is still the best way to kill your enemies dispite the nerf considering that slashing the Councilors to death takes three or four hits to their one.

                      In short when it comes to the theory that the Councilors have just gotten better it's just not true. Jason became less deadly. You do need more skill to play as him now but only because most of his tools are broken or nerfed. Jason needs a buff. 

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8 minutes ago, Alien_Number_Six said:

                Ok this is my real opinion on this. Check out my original post on this topic on page one if you want a laugh. 

               Before the 10/27/17 patch anyone could use Jason and be fairly successful due to the overpowered grab range. Even a new Jason could run people down and kill them. Jason was powerful and escaping took strategy and experience. It was not impossible but you had to spend a few rounds getting murdered before you found your groove. Some people like myself felt this was acceptable because Jason is supposed to feel powerful and overpowered in my opinion. Some people thought that Jason was completely unfair and the game was unfair as a result. 

                   After Jason's grab and traps were nerfed in the 10/27/17 patch players that had learned how to evade the long arm of Jason were now overpowered. Because they had taken the time to learn how to survive they could barely be touched. I personally remembered pulling off some things I shouldn't have been able to do without getting slaughtered and thinking "I should be dead." This lead to me posting a thread on the first of November requesting a new patch to shore up Jason's balance. 

                              The main problem with Jason at the moment stems from his melee attacks being broken and extremely short range. The overpowered grab was covering this up for the most part. How broken is the melee system? Well I would say that currently the Councilors are better fighters then Jason. Mainly because all the Councilors need to do is hit a slashing Jason one time with a high stun weapon even after taking enough damage to leave them limping. Once Jason is stunned they heal themselves and run away. That coupled with the fact there are seven of them and one Jason has been leading to the Jason beat downs we have been seeing lately. The grab also needs to be tuned up so the Councilors can't just run past you especially if they are going to keep it short range. Grabbing is still the best way to kill your enemies dispite the nerf considering that slashing the Councilors to death takes three or four hits to their one.

                      In short when it comes to the theory that the Councilors have just gotten better it's just not true. Jason became less deadly. You do need more skill to play as him now but only because most of his tools are broken or nerfed. Jason needs a buff. 

Agreed. Because every counselor is running medic and or thick skinned with at least one medspray, they can heal themselves at least 2 times, need 3-6 hits or so before they're limping, can always dodge the next attack if they aren't limping, and they can counter an attack by blocking and then attacking again, stunning Jason to heal. But Jason can no longer attack or do anything after blocking. He is locked and they can go free.

The combat system really does favour an individual counselor over Jason, never mind groups. Jason's only winning move is the grab and now it sucks.

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2 hours ago, Alien_Number_Six said:

 Jason became less deadly. You do need more skill to play as him now but only because most of his tools are broken or nerfed.

Pretty much. You need "skill" as Jason to overcome the balance shortcomings and bugs. Catching counselors is the fine art of defying the wonky game issues and succeeding in spite of them. It isn't really the Jason player's skill versus the counselor player's skill.

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11 hours ago, TiffanyCox said:

Exactly, people need to start reading "how to play" or even Gun needs to make the "how to play" more accurate to most peoples gameplay!

The "how to play" is purposely vague because this was back when Gun/Wes was preaching "player discovery" and "the game is supposed to be hard"

:rolleyes:

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2 hours ago, Alkavian said:

Pretty much. You need "skill" as Jason to overcome the balance shortcomings and bugs. Catching counselors is the fine art of defying the wonky game issues and succeeding in spite of them. It isn't really the Jason player's skill versus the counselor player's skill.

This is very true! If you understand how to play as Jason and can do it well your fine, I still do great as Jason. Though I only play Part 8, I can still kill everyone in one match. It may just be my game play but it seems like others are on my page here.

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