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"Jason hasn't been nerfed, the Counselors have just gotten better" Do you believe this?

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I'm only going to say this: The grab range is far from perfect, but the force grabs before were just ridiculous. So the nerf to that was needed, it was just beat a little too hard with the nerf bat.

As for being able to see items on the map now? Well you can blame that on the asshats that would run items to the middle of nowhere and just dump them and it happened more than you might would think. I wasn't necessarily for it, but it's a great solution to what was a problem and realistically it barely changes anything other than keeping the game flowing in the right direction.

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1 minute ago, DEATH said:

I'm only going to say this: The grab range is far from perfect, but the force grabs before were just ridiculous. So the nerf to that was needed, it was just beat a little too hard with the nerf bat.

As for being able to see items on the map now? Well you can blame that on the asshats that would run items to the middle of nowhere and just dump them and it happened more than you might would think. I wasn't necessarily for it, but it's a great solution to what was a problem and realistically it barely changes anything other than keeping the game flowing in the right direction.

I don't think any changes to the grabs were needed. Jason still needed to be very close to you to grab. No changes were ever needed to window smashing either, and now we still have a system worse than how it worked at release. I imagine grabs will be tweaked the same way. We'll go back to a value that is around halfway between what we have now and what we had before. Jason will still be a wimp when up against high level players, but we won't be as wimpy as he is now.

All they had to do was fix stealth and Sense so that the AJs whining about dying could have a chance to get away. They're definitely not nerfing Jason behalf of Vanessa and Chad players.

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3 minutes ago, DEATH said:

I'm only going to say this: The grab range is far from perfect, but the force grabs before were just ridiculous. So the nerf to that was needed, it was just beat a little too hard with the nerf bat.

His Force Grab was a bit too much and I'd be ok with 50% nerf... but now his CQC grab has also been choked. One nerf grab miss alone is enough for a counselor to escape, heal him/herself, or for another counselor to come stun you with the bat. I've made Jason miss me up to 9 times with a crippled, high fear, outta stamina AJ. This needs fixing unless the devs wanna make this fair game for everyone meaning it's not longer a F13th simulation but just another player vs player arena.

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2 minutes ago, MichaelMemers said:

I don't think any changes to the grabs were needed. Jason still needed to be very close to you to grab. No changes were ever needed to window smashing either, and now we still have a system worse than how it worked at release. I imagine grabs will be tweaked the same way. We'll go back to a value that is around halfway between what we have now and what we had before. Jason will still be a wimp when up against high level players, but we won't be as wimpy as he is now.

All they had to do was fix stealth and Sense so that the AJs whining about dying could have a chance to get away. They're definitely not nerfing Jason behalf of Vanessa and Chad players.

No he didn't. There were plenty of times that I'd be vacuumed to him from around corners and 5 feet outside of his realistic grab range. A nerf was definitely warranted.

Smashing windows works fine for me. It's still the same Windows that I can't seem to break without combat stancing them and having the animation for those is still quicker than combat stance, swing, combat stance.

I'm an AJ main and have no issues escaping most of the time. If I don't escape I'm still generally the last, or close to it, to die. Maybe those who are complaining should just get good. But the same can be said for those complaining about Jason too. He's still good if you're good.

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5 minutes ago, StallonSilver said:

His Force Grab was a bit too much and I'd be ok with 50% nerf... but now his CQC grab has also been choked. One nerf grab miss alone is enough for a counselor to escape, heal him/herself, or for another counselor to come stun you with the bat. I've made Jason miss me up to 9 times with a crippled, high fear, outta stamina AJ. This needs fixing unless the devs wanna make this fair game for everyone meaning it's not longer a F13th simulation but just another player vs player arena.

I hate to double post, but I can't seem to edit a quote into my previous response on my mobile device. 

I agree. Like I said I think it was hit a little too hard with the nerf bat, but for people to act as if it was fine before are just being disingenuous.

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10 minutes ago, StallonSilver said:

His Force Grab was a bit too much and I'd be ok with 50% nerf... but now his CQC grab has also been choked.

The range was nerfed about 50% in effective reach. The swath of area covered in front of him was reduced probably more than 75%. His close quarters grab is actually MORE effective than it was because of how the shape of the grab AoE changed. You can actually grab a counselor standing side-by-side (shoulder to shoulder) with Jason. I think it is the swath/width of the grab area most people have having issues with. The distance of reach could be increased maybe 1ft, but it's actually not too terrible. The width of the grab AoE and how hitboxes interact along it's edges I think are throwing people off.

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4 minutes ago, Alkavian said:

The width of the grab AoE and how hitboxes interact along it's edges I think are throwing people off.

Yeah,that's my biggest issue. I can still clean house with Part II most of the time,but it's just frustrating to whiff on so many weapon swings or close grabs. 

The vacuum grab needed to go,but he should still be able to grab you if you are close enough.

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16 minutes ago, DEATH said:

Smashing windows works fine for me. It's still the same Windows that I can't seem to break without combat stancing them and having the animation for those is still quicker than combat stance, swing, combat stance.

Smashing windows is objectively inferior to how it used to be. There's now an invisible shield that protects the window and counselor from harm, so Jason has to wait for you to finish getting up on the other side of the window before he can smash it. Also, Jason is vulnerable to being hit when he breaks the window through the prompt method. Demasking was never so easy.

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28 minutes ago, MichaelMemers said:

All they had to do was fix stealth and Sense so that the AJs whining about dying could have a chance to get away. They're definitely not nerfing Jason behalf of Vanessa and Chad players.

I've never understood exactly how stealth and sense work but as an AJ main, I'm also usually either last to get killed or remain stealthy enough to escape unscathed so I must be doing something right. There's an exception to every rule of course, especially if I spawn next to a car or lodge where Jason morphs immediately to at the start of the match.

I've noticed that even with great stealth and fear resistance perks equipped, I've had Jasons stalk shift right up to me despite being alone, away from noisy low composure counselors, and with no fear or stamina penalties. Then other times Jason has chased me into a cabin and not noticed I crawled under a bed. 

With a little more understanding or perhaps a 'fix' of how the stealth/sense thing works, it might lead to more comprehensible strategies.

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4 minutes ago, MichaelMemers said:

Smashing windows is objectively inferior to how it used to be. There's now an invisible shield that protects the window and counselor from harm, so Jason has to wait for you to finish getting up on the other side of the window before he can smash it. Also, Jason is vulnerable to being hit when he breaks the window through the prompt method. Demasking was never so easy.

Not only is Jason vulnerable to punishment from smashed windows but also from partially smashed doors. I was wondering why some counselors were swinging at the door with a bat as I was trying to break it until I was stunned mid swing with the door only 30% smashed.

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5 minutes ago, StallonSilver said:

Not only is Jason vulnerable to punishment from smashed windows but also from partially smashed doors. I was wondering why some counselors were swinging at the door with a bat as I was trying to break it until I was stunned mid swing with the door only 30% smashed.

Yep, you have to combat stance doors while standing back and a little to the side so your weapon hits the door and yet you aren't close enough for them to hit you through it. You also need to free swing at windows instead of relying on the prompt. A competent counselor, even a non-strength character with decent luck like Chad or Vanessa, will get your mask off without ever being in danger unless you do this.

Quote

I've never understood exactly how stealth and sense work but as an AJ main, I'm also usually either last to get killed or remain stealthy enough to escape unscathed so I must be doing something right. There's an exception to every rule of course, especially if I spawn next to a car or lodge where Jason morphs immediately to at the start of the match.

I've noticed that even with great stealth and fear resistance perks equipped, I've had Jasons stalk shift right up to me despite being alone, away from noisy low composure counselors, and with no fear or stamina penalties. Then other times Jason has chased me into a cabin and not noticed I crawled under a bed. 

With a little more understanding or perhaps a 'fix' of how the stealth/sense thing works, it might lead to more comprehensible strategies.

If you're in a certain radius of Jason and aren't in a hiding spot while he's still pre-rage, he's going to sense you, period, unless you have sense avoidance perks. Your fear does not matter when he is that close. This radius seems to extend as the match goes on. And since Jason can spam sense on and off, he can within a few senses pick you up even if you are stacking 3 sense perks. There's nothing else for him to do while he waits for his morph to come back. What this means is that you can only hide from Jason by avoiding objectives, unless you count hiding in a closet by the phonehouse and waiting for someone to bring the fuse as hiding. You also can never lose Jason because even if you dodge his sense with perks he'll just sense again 3 seconds later before you can jog out of his sense radius.

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2 minutes ago, MichaelMemers said:

Yep, you have to combat stance doors while standing back and a little to the side so your weapon hits the door and yet you aren't close enough for them to hit you through it. You also need to free swing at windows instead of relying on the prompt. A competent counselor, even a non-strength character with decent luck like Chad or Vanessa, will get your mask off without ever being in danger unless you do this.

You know, people complained when us Jasons figured out to combat stance the door in order to shave off a FEW seconds from the 6 smashes it takes to break it down... and now you can't do that anymore but it's totally ok to have them Stun us thru a half wrecked door?

I miss when we could combat stance Block a flare gun which is realistic especially if you're an undead monster but now if that baby flame brushes your skin, you're stunned for half hour. First of all timing a combat stance block is not for everyone especially if you're chasing 2 counselors and 1 distracts you where the other one can get a clear shot. Never liked that nerf but it seems to be the trend. 

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I think not being able to block a flaregun is fair if only because it's a pretty trash weapon that only gets one use. I will never pick one up unless I'm playing as AJ with her horrible weapon durability or the only other weapons around are machetes and I'm playing as a low strength character.

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1 minute ago, MichaelMemers said:

I think not being able to block a flaregun is fair if only because it's a pretty trash weapon that only gets one use. I will never pick one up unless I'm playing as AJ with her horrible weapon durability or the only other weapons around are machetes and I'm playing as a low strength character.

I feel ya but I'm just remembering my experiences as Jason a few months ago and even though I knew I could block it, I didn't always react in time with all the other options I had and other counselors around me. However that one time that someone sized me up from across the road like an old Western and I covered my eyes and kept walking towards them like a badass cowboy was priceless. 

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17 minutes ago, thatdudescott said:

Yeah,that's my biggest issue. I can still clean house with Part II most of the time,but it's just frustrating to whiff on so many weapon swings or close grabs. 

The vacuum grab needed to go,but he should still be able to grab you if you are close enough.

I've actually been giving the grab design some thought and it might be solved by:

1. Widen the grab AoE to include the area I depicted as the "potential grab" area.

2. Get rid of the partial hitbox collision with the grab AoE and make it all or nothing. Either the ENTIRE counselor hitbox is in the AoE for a successful grab, or it isn't.

On 11/27/2017 at 10:06 AM, Alkavian said:

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,59d3e0555bf07_JasonsGrabRange.jpg.6a39baabc74312ea1fcd5d979b5b3281.jpg

With the old grab cone, the partial hitbox collision manifested itself as well. You could certainly get some weird grab dynamics and outrageous ranges along the old AoE edges. Those areas marked safe really were only "mostly-safe" dependent on the orientation of the counselor in relation to the edge of the grab AoE. I suppose it's always nice to figure out something new to consider. Glad we did those grab tests for the new grab. It actually helps understand issues that plagued the old grab as well.

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If only you guys were able to line up some baseball bats on the ground to show distance with your tests. I’d have to assume the bats are 33”.

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9 hours ago, WashingtonJones said:

Then what's turning him towards them?

Probably that it's the player pointing their control stick in their direction, and the attack animation can be "aimed" at them after activation.

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11 hours ago, WashingtonJones said:

When looking in slow-mo at the close melee attacks, his body turns itself towards the counselor at the start of the animation. So he already gets turned before he swings. And I just watched the crouch-walking one I recorded tonight and I could see him turn from one direction to the next (towards the counselor) once each attack started.

What I did notice is that it's hard to tell that it's happening because the camera pulls in with Jason and it smooths it out. The camera doesn't pull in with an overhead view, so when Jason starts his swing, it looks like there's an edit in the video. His body jumps from one point to the next. Almost like a mini teleport.

I can also see it in Bear's video with Jason trying to hit the running counselors and when trying to hit Mitch with the battery.

He's locked on.

Could I be imagining things?

I feel like you are right here. It's something I noticed as well. It could just be canned animation camera pulling with his body, but it is noticeable. 

As @VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said, it isn't necessarily locking onto the counselor. I do think it is locking onto where the hit is supposed to end up. Maybe there is an aim assist programmed in though that automatically turns Jason to the nearest target. Maybe try a run of two counselors moving in and away from him and see if there is a noticeable difference in where he and the camera aim while swinging freely. I doubt it, but it's something to test as it does seem like there is some sort of auto aim feature.

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4 hours ago, Cannon007 said:

If only you guys were able to line up some baseball bats on the ground to show distance with your tests. I’d have to assume the bats are 33”.

We can always try that next time for you. Suggestions and questions like this are pivotal in getting a better understanding of game mechanics for everyone.  It is hard to measure by stand rug size and decor. 

Edit: sorry for double post but first citation was on the last page and hadn't read the next quote yet. Tried to edit and get it in the same one but couldn't efficiently do it from my phone. 

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On ‎11‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 5:38 AM, Jawbone said:

The crocodile tears are real. The grab adjustment and item marking didn't sink the game as many people let on. The content drought since the game came out did. Slight stat variations on counselors and Jason's aren't worth the months long wait for them. The maps certainly shouldn't take as long as they do and be as poorly balanced as they are especially since 70% of them are the same nondescript woods as any other map. The content drought is the reason the game is in trouble not a silly grab range change and a item marking mechanic.

I’m sorry, but I have to laugh hysterically at this.  I have a group of about 34 players that I used to play with in PUBLIC matches, where anywhere from 3-7 of us would group together at one time.  There was always at least 10 of us on at any one time, and all but a couple had Jason preferences, as we all sincerely believed that Jason was the most fun to play.  Not one of us cared about any other content, except for the new maps.  While the maps were a challenge at first, we all learned that they truly are no different than the original maps.  You just need to know how to play them, which we did.  Not one of use thought that the grab was over reaching, and we definitely had no problem getting out as counceleors.  Not one of use cared, nor did we buy, the clothing DLCs.

Within 2 weeks of the last patch, almost every single person in the group stopped playing F13 completely.  A couple still play, but everyone else is playing other games.  Those who are still interested in a F13 type game moved on to Dead by Daylight (DBD), where we bought EVERY expansion, and for less than what we paid for F13.  I would consider F13 a kiddy version of DBD, as DBD is a much more robust game, and has an extremely high learning curve.  You get points for everything, every time you do it, not just once per match.  Half of your points come from working with others, and half of those come from HELPING OTHERS.  A concept that doesn’t even exist in F13.

So, I can’t see how you can possibly stand by the statement that content is the reason that the game is failing.  The game failed due to the arrogance of Gun Media, it’s founders, the developers, and the lack of creating a robust game.  Sure, the game will sputter around for years like Neverquest and others, but does anyone want to play a sputtering game?  I was looking forward to coming back to a playable game, but with the latest statements made by Randy and @[IllFonic]Courier, I have little confidence that anything will ever change.

 

On ‎11‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 5:27 PM, [IllFonic]Courier said:

Hey everyone,

We wanted to give you all an update on the status of this upcoming patch. There are currently no planned patches to be released during November. We’re still working on some of the new content that will be included in this next update. We recently announced that we will be raising the current level cap up to 150, but that’s likely the least exciting part of this patch and we’re definitely looking forward to that. The only hint we can provide right now is this: check the planned content road map.

There have also been many questions about balance changes for this upcoming patch and we want to make it clear that this will not be a balance focused patch. This does not mean that we won’t be making any adjustments to balance, but there certainly won’t be as many high impact changes like the previous patch. A majority of this upcoming patch will be focused on introducing new content and fixing bugs. We acknowledge that Jason currently requires some additional tuning and we will be releasing a few posts in these following weeks with information regarding some of the recent balance changes.

There is currently no ETA for the new patch at this time, but the plan is to release the patch immediately after everything has been completed and approved on all the platforms.

 

 

Peace, and good luck!

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Randy denied Jason being nerfed publicly, yet we hear different on the forums. Get on the same page and give everyone the correct information please! 

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