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tyrant666

"Jason hasn't been nerfed, the Counselors have just gotten better" Do you believe this?

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While watching Randy play in the stream in the other night.

He would mention things would always be open to changes.

But whenever he directly addressed the nature of Jason play lately. His opinion is that Jason really hasn't been nerfed, but the counselors have just gotten better, which has made it harder for Jason to have easier games.

I just wonder if anybody agrees with that logic? While it may be true for the seasoned counselor players. How does that explain why Jason players haven't counter improved against even new counselors? Seasoned Jason players or even noobs for that matter?

While he did mention it comes down to the skill level of the players. It just begs to question.

There was literally one point in the stream where a Tommy and Chad were outright trolling Jason. Tommy was literally running right around and right on top of Jason and he couldn't grab the Tommy directly in front of him. Randy kept saying the mistake the Jason player was making was relying on grab constantly and instead he should've used his melee weapon. Melee isn't all that reliable either, especially up against objects, walls, etc.

He would talk about how his prior grab range was actually a bug that was fixed. Same for trap stacking not being intentional. While I've never cared or argued one way or the other for trap stacking. I'm surprised given the evidence was right in front of him of Jason whiffing Tommy directly in front of him now that he thought melee would be the obvious and easy counter.

I don't want to be a jerk and question his skill set of the game. I just hope the overall dev team sees more.

Also, if there is a topic about that stream the other night, feel free to close this.

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I dont fully agree or dissagree. In my oppinion its a combination of both.

And ofcourse seasoned players know exactly how to take advantage of the nerfs and counselor buffs making them even better.

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I don't think it's because the councelors are becoming more skilled.  With the physical copy being released as well as the sales for the digital copy, there are far more new players than there used to be.

So many new players translate to Jason too.  I've played many games where you can tell, the Jason is very inexperienced.  Trolls definitely catch on to this and have their fun with it.

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Nope.

It's bullshit. All of it.

I was in there for this part of the stream and Randy just kept digging the grave deeper and deeper.

I did legitimately laugh when he got to the part about the grab range being a bug ALL THIS TIME. 

This game really is still in beta.

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When a grab goes right through a counselors head, or a weapon swing (from both Jason and counselor) goes right through the body without doing damage - yeah, I'd say that's perfect and he knows exactly what he's talking about. ?

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I'm sorry, you (not you, him) don't get to call something that was in the game for 5 months+ a bug and exclude it's change from being considered a nerf. I'm not one to complain about the current grab range because i prefer counselor but it sure as shit was a nerf. Doesn't matter that there's still ways to be optimal as Jason. If you let your playerbase get used to a present mechanic for the length of time they did, then pull the rug out from under them it is a nerf, bug or not. Either fix your bugs quicker or stop talking to people like they are idiots please. 

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From the time this game came out in May all the way up to the late October patch I have had roughly 200 friends on PS4 consistently playing this game. I had a choice of well over 10 lobbies to join with countless invites among my friends. These lobbies led to meeting even more players and there was never a time or day that I couldn't hop on and fill a lobby within seconds.

Post patch? These people have dropped like flies. Nobody plays the game anymore, myself included. Of the 200+ friends I had CONSISTENTLY playing Friday ... there's about 6 maybe 7 that still do.

Quick play? If I so chose to hop into quick play (which I had when it was assumed Pamela Tapes could only be found in quick play matches) you could leave a lobby with bad pings to host or lobbies with obnoxious players and easily find several other lobbies to choose from and find one you were comfortable with joining.

Post patch? Leave a lobby with bad ping and search again it will put you back into the very same game. Leave again? MAYBE you'll find 1-2 alternate lobbies.

There is a problem. Everyone knows there's a problem. If they are denying it, they'll soon face reality when it hits the wallet because numbers don't lie.

If you're trying to tell me that brand new players have "gotten better" as counselors and suddenly everyone who has played the game since launch just started sucking as Jason? That clearly shows that the devs are out of touch, or are just flat out denying the facts.

Jason was nerfed and it was made far too easy to be a counselor. 

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1 minute ago, coconuts622 said:

When a grab goes right through a counselors head, or a weapon swing (from both Jason and counselor) goes right through the body without doing damage - yeah, I'd say that's perfect and he knows exactly what he's talking about. ?

Thats true, melee and grab nerfs have damaged Jason considerably (and now some jack-ass wants to buff-up counselors scense avoidance....).

My point was that counselors are and were getting better, even pre -nerf. The nerfs only strengthen this fact. Thats why, in a larger scope, I'd say its a combination of both. Regardless of what Randy said.

Btw, who is Randy and should we give a shit about what he said? Just curious... 

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14 minutes ago, lasse_hei said:

Thats true, melee and grab nerfs have damaged Jason considerably (and now some jack-ass wants to buff-up counselors scense avoidance....).

My point was that counselors are and were getting better, even pre -nerf. The nerfs only strengthen this fact. Thats why, in a larger scope, I'd say its a combination of both. Regardless of what Randy said.

Btw, who is Randy and should we give a shit about what he said? Just curious... 

One of the devs.

He streams himself playing with fans from time to time.

He streams all platforms. Was Xbox this past Friday.

Steam next week.

Which probably means some kind of update will probably happen soon (hopefully) im guessing since he'd been quiet for a couple weeks.

https://www.twitch.tv/fridaythe13thgame

He did confirm Retro Jason is still a thing to be separated as his own Jason. So some small news to be had I guess.

Oh and Larry Zerner apparently plays on all 3 platforms. Dedicated servers also haven't been abandoned, just 'soon'.

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Imo, @Randygbk doesn't play the game enough to know what the balance is currently like. Either that, or refused to acknowledge what was happening in front of him. 

"Powerhouse" Jason is gone. Guess we'll have to get used to being a walking pinata.

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2 minutes ago, lHeartBreakerl said:

refused to acknowledge what was happening in front of him. 

Literally applies to everyone at Gun. I won't lump illfonic in on that because they are just "guns for hire" and probably don't make any of the decisions,just take the directions.

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The crocodile tears are real. The grab adjustment and item marking didn't sink the game as many people let on. The content drought since the game came out did. Slight stat variations on counselors and Jason's aren't worth the months long wait for them. The maps certainly shouldn't take as long as they do and be as poorly balanced as they are especially since 70% of them are the same nondescript woods as any other map. The content drought is the reason the game is in trouble not a silly grab range change and a item marking mechanic.

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41 minutes ago, lasse_hei said:

Thats true, melee and grab nerfs have damaged Jason considerably (and now some jack-ass wants to buff-up counselors scense avoidance....).

My point was that counselors are and were getting better, even pre -nerf. The nerfs only strengthen this fact. Thats why, in a larger scope, I'd say its a combination of both. Regardless of what Randy said.

Btw, who is Randy and should we give a shit about what he said? Just curious... 

He's one of the executive producers\Director's at Gun media?

At least I think he is? I'm not sure, Google it.

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Like many of you members, I've been playing since launch also. When I get to be Jason...his melee seems slightly nerfed and his grab was nerfed too much. Also...Jason's 6,7,8,9 and Savini seem to have a slower chase. Maybe that's just me. 

For the counselors...they did get a few good buffs, yet players were getting better, before this patch. 

Maybe I need to change my tactics, when it comes to playing as Jason. We shall see...what the new patch brings. Hoping for the best. 

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1 hour ago, tyrant666 said:

While watching Randy play in the stream in the other night.

He would mention things would always be open to changes.

But whenever he directly addressed the nature of Jason play lately. His opinion is that Jason really hasn't been nerfed, but the counselors have just gotten better, which has made it harder for Jason to have easier games.

I just wonder if anybody agrees with that logic? While it may be true for the seasoned counselor players. How does that explain why Jason players haven't counter improved against even new counselors? Seasoned Jason players or even noobs for that matter?

While he did mention it comes down to the skill level of the players. It just begs to question.

There was literally one point in the stream where a Tommy and Chad were outright trolling Jason. Tommy was literally running right around and right on top of Jason and he couldn't grab the Tommy directly in front of him. Randy kept saying the mistake the Jason player was making was relying on grab constantly and instead he should've used his melee weapon. Melee isn't all that reliable either, especially up against objects, walls, etc.

He would talk about how his prior grab range was actually a bug that was fixed. Same for trap stacking not being intentional. While I've never cared or argued one way or the other for trap stacking. I'm surprised given the evidence was right in front of him of Jason whiffing Tommy directly in front of him now that he thought melee would be the obvious and easy counter.

I don't want to be a jerk and question his skill set of the game. I just hope the overall dev team sees more.

Also, if there is a topic about that stream the other night, feel free to close this.

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Totally disagree with randy on this one, They have been buffing the counselor's and needing jason, since around about the august patch(I think?) So I expected them to nerf jason and buff the counselor's in some way.

BUT MAN! I didn't expect them to give the counselor's such a huge buff, being able to see the part's on the map is completely overpowered, it would've been fine if they made it so the part's only appear on the mini-map. That way communication between each player on where the parts were was still needed.

Now it's just " Oh Jason's at the phone box, guess I'll just leave the fuss in this cabin. So that somebody else can put it in after he's left."

I don't know why they felt like Jason needed his grab range and traps nerfed, they said " It'll give the newer players more of a chance to escape."

But doesn't that mean that the newer players are going to have a hard time playing as Jason now? Think about it. Them nerfing  Jason to make it easier for newer players, has just made it harder for newer players to play as Jason.

If they really wanted to make it easier,they should've just buffed the counselor's, and left Jason how he was post patch.

At least then the newer players could've stood more of a chance against the counselors while playing playing as Jason.

Anyways you don't nerf the killer in these type's of games, has DBD ever nerfed any of there killer's?

Well they did nerf Freddy... But you get my point, they don't because the survivors already have enough tools to deal with the killer's.

Plus the killer's in DBD have a lot of weaknesses, like each time they swing at you. They have to check there weapon, so it gives the survivors time to get away.

(I've never played DBD btw, so if I got some thing's wrong, then my mistake).

200qri.jpg

 

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59 minutes ago, Jawbone said:

The crocodile tears are real. The grab adjustment and item marking didn't sink the game as many people let on. The content drought since the game came out did. Slight stat variations on counselors and Jason's aren't worth the months long wait for them. The maps certainly shouldn't take as long as they do and be as poorly balanced as they are especially since 70% of them are the same nondescript woods as any other map. The content drought is the reason the game is in trouble not a silly grab range change and a item marking mechanic.

As someone thats played almost every day since release I can tell you that those of us that enjoy the gameplay dont care about the content spacing as much as those stats you seem to scoff at. When you enjoy the gameplay of a game where there are such random factors, the biggest one in this case being that no two people play exactly the same, you get your entertainment out of the reactions and the things that happen in the match.

Yes a steady stream of content is nice for longevity, however if you have gameplay that hooks you, you can make due. Fact is that when certain mechanics are broken or the power scale in a 1vsAll game shifts to the all it saps out the fun. 

People seem to have a misunderstanding when it comes to asymmetrical video games. The only time youre suppose to do really well is when the team is coordinated. With changes that make each individual stronger, thus making the group even stronger, it takes away the fun of playing the 1. There too much hand holding now that makes it so theres no communication required and dont give me the QP is a nightmare. Thats all I play because I feel Private lobbies get boring since everyone learns each others tactics very quickly. So you died as a counselor because you couldnt find an item, thats fine. This games IP is based in the horror genre.

In the end I feel youre wrong. People arent just leaving because of a lack of content because we didnt have any content before really and we were all still having fun. Its tied to people thinking there needs to be balance in a 1v1 scenario in a 1vsAll game, people thinking they dont need to communicate in a team objective game, and so on.

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I'm fine without the grab range anyways. I don't shift grab. I consider it unfair although I don't mind when Jasons attempt it on me because I see why they do it - it's a easy way to get a kill.

I slash counselors or throw knives at them until they are limping then I chase them down and grab kill them.

At most in the past 3 months I've only had a max of 2 people escape when I was part 2 Jason. They were all stealth and repair counselors.

I think the reason why people think he is "nerfed" is people are simply becoming good counselors and juking.

I say learn how to utilize combat stance, the blocking is fixed so you can strike right after you block a counselors attack. 

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I still think Jason is good as he his right now, but it has gotten easier to kill him.  In fact, I almost try to every game.  What has me more confident in fighting him 1vs1 is that his grab range has been adjusted so I'm getting better at duels.  I think this change has changed the meta completely for Jason because it was his greatest threat prior to the 10/25 patch.  Now counselors seem more bold in fighting him from what I have observed.  Players are running straight at him to take a swing. 

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It's a combination of both. Longtime players have evolved without a doubt. 

Some buffs for the counselors such as key items showing on the map make it easier to escape. Some nerfs for Jason such as grab range make it harder on him. It's my opinion small maps and the ease in finding parts makes it harder on Jason. 

When put together it's definitely a one-two punch for Jason. 

What we need now is more randomization to even things out. If parts didn't always spawn near the vehicles or fuse, that would be swell. Also the two seater and boat should be a thing on all the maps, not just Jarvis house. 

Jason still starts off with the edge. It's just harder to keep it. Once he begins to lose control, it's an easy slide to losing out on kills. 

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3 hours ago, tyrant666 said:

But whenever he directly addressed the nature of Jason play lately. His opinion is that Jason really hasn't been nerfed, but the counselors have just gotten better, which has made it harder for Jason to have easier games.

There was literally one point in the stream where a Tommy and Chad were outright trolling Jason. Tommy was literally running right around and right on top of Jason and he couldn't grab the Tommy directly in front of him. Randy kept saying the mistake the Jason player was making was relying on grab constantly and instead he should've used his melee weapon. Melee isn't all that reliable either, especially up against objects, walls, etc.

He would talk about how his prior grab range was actually a bug that was fixed. Same for trap stacking not being intentional. While I've never cared or argued one way or the other for trap stacking. I'm surprised given the evidence was right in front of him of Jason whiffing Tommy directly in front of him now that he thought melee would be the obvious and easy counter.

I don't want to be a jerk and question his skill set of the game. I just hope the overall dev team sees more.

No offense to Randy, but I seriously doubt that he plays this game enough to truly have mastered any particular aspect of gameplay; counselor OR Jason. I don't think I'm being a jerk by saying that either. It is just an observation of their gameplay based on my own experiences and seeing others play. Anybody who has played this game extensively, counselor preference or Jason preference, can spot the relative skill level they are facing. Noobies do certain things most seasoned players wouldn't. Seasoned players tend to have a certain recognizable method to their madness. Jason struggling is not a reflection of players getting better at playing counselors. Jason players can tell what they are facing (skilled, newb, or somewhere in between). Comparing apples to apples, it is harder to catch players (regardless of skill level) when comparing them against their peers post-patch versus pre-patch. Now realistically, catching newbs is still easy, but it has gotten a bit harder due to gameplay mechanics. This has nothing to do with new players getting better. Likewise, seasoned veterans still kick ass and are tough to deal with; just now more so because they are experienced enough to exploit Jason's nerf.

I highly doubt that the prior grab range was a bug, or it would have been fixed early on. It was a gameplay mechanic balanced against counselors movement rate (and probably also related to perspective as @VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow has stated). I somewhat believe the trap stacking statement because counselors cannot stack theirs. It seems likely that they didn't intend for Jason to do it either. In either case, if the evidence of hit detection being an issue was right in front of him and he didn't acknowledge it, I'm guessing he is either 1) Ignoring it, 2) Didn't notice, or 3) Trying to be diplomatic and non-committal. I'd vote for #3.

In response to relying on grab and not melee. The hit detection is pretty rough right now. Counselors have a metric ton of healing. It is actually easier to eat a few pocket knives than watch the counselors endlessly patching themselves up after you put forth an effort to hack them and stab them to a limp. In both cases, grab or slash, the hit detection is trash. You'll be punished either by an abundance of knives or healing.

Simply put, I think Randy is playing customer relations politics. He is trying to have some fun with the community and really doesn't want to acknowledge the Dev side too much and accidentally put his foot in his mouth. I wouldn't read too much into it beyond that.

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17 minutes ago, Alkavian said:

No offense to Randy, but I seriously doubt that he plays this game enough to truly have mastered any particular aspect of gameplay; counselor OR Jason. I don't think I'm being a jerk by saying that either. It is just an observation of their gameplay based on my own experiences and seeing others play. Anybody who has played this game extensively, counselor preference or Jason preference, can spot the relative skill level they are facing. Noobies do certain things most seasoned players wouldn't. Seasoned players tend to have a certain recognizable method to their madness. Jason struggling is not a reflection of players getting better at playing counselors. Jason players can tell what they are facing (skilled, newb, or somewhere in between). Comparing apples to apples, it is harder to catch players (regardless of skill level) when comparing them against their peers post-patch versus pre-patch. Now realistically, catching newbs is still easy, but it has gotten a bit harder due to gameplay mechanics. This has nothing to do with new players getting better. Likewise, seasoned veterans still kick ass and are tough to deal with; just now more so because they are experienced enough to exploit Jason's nerf.

I highly doubt that the prior grab range was a bug, or it would have been fixed early on. It was a gameplay mechanic balanced against counselors movement rate (and probably also related to perspective as @VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow has stated). I somewhat believe the trap stacking statement because counselors cannot stack theirs. It seems likely that they didn't intend for Jason to do it either. In either case, if the evidence of hit detection being an issue was right in front of him and he didn't acknowledge it, I'm guessing he is either 1) Ignoring it, 2) Didn't notice, or 3) Trying to be diplomatic and non-committal. I'd vote for #3.

In response to relying on grab and not melee. The hit detection is pretty rough right now. Counselors have a metric ton of healing. It is actually easier to eat a few pocket knives than watch the counselors endlessly patching themselves up after you put forth an effort to hack them and stab them to a limp. In both cases, grab or slash, the hit detection is trash. You'll be punished either by an abundance of knives or healing.

Simply put, I think Randy is playing customer relations politics. He is trying to have some fun with the community and really doesn't want to acknowledge the Dev side too much and accidentally put his foot in his mouth. I wouldn't read too much into it beyond that.

Oh absolutely. I agree with all of that. Especially melee.

He says he plays on all the platforms, including the test servers.

Yet watching his stream. He's running around with AJ like he's playing Vanessa and he's out of stamina like all match long. Either he's fucking around when playing with fans (trying to have a good time) and not the same when playing on the test servers or he's just average/below average and that's all.

Not trying to be a dick about it either.

The bug where Jason couldn't perform a grab kill or environmental kill happened between the last person alive and Jason. Some of the stream thought Jason and the last counselor were trolling and others were pointing out that if the player didn't hit Jason with a melee weapon, that he could no longer melee or perform a grab kill of any kind. So yeah, it was the first time he'd seen it and made note he'd pass it along, but still...not seeing it (rare or not) is a big tell.

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2 hours ago, Redcat345 said:

Jason needs his strength and needs his grab back.

He does. What this Randy person was saying has made me lose all hope for the game.

I was watching this video yesterday, and it shocked me how good Jason't grab used to be. Look at the grab at 6:40...with the current patch, that counselor would have easily sailed on by with Jason grabbing nothing but air.

 

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39 minutes ago, ThePunkPirate said:

As someone thats played almost every day since release I can tell you that those of us that enjoy the gameplay dont care about the content spacing as much as those stats you seem to scoff at. When you enjoy the gameplay of a game where there are such random factors, the biggest one in this case being that no two people play exactly the same, you get your entertainment out of the reactions and the things that happen in the match.

I don't see how the random factors were affected in anyway during these changes. Everyone still plays in their own way during the matches before and after the changes.

 

44 minutes ago, ThePunkPirate said:

Yes a steady stream of content is nice for longevity, however if you have gameplay that hooks you, you can make due. Fact is that when certain mechanics are broken or the power scale in a 1vsAll game shifts to the all it saps out the fun. 

The problem here being that the game was dying quite a while before any of the "bad" changes came into effect. People aren't going to grind the same few maps over and over for a few palette swaps and RNG perks because that isn't fun and thats basically all the game still is half a year after launch.

 

53 minutes ago, ThePunkPirate said:

People seem to have a misunderstanding when it comes to asymmetrical video games. The only time youre suppose to do really well is when the team is coordinated. With changes that make each individual stronger, thus making the group even stronger, it takes away the fun of playing the 1. There too much hand holding now that makes it so theres no communication required and dont give me the QP is a nightmare. Thats all I play because I feel Private lobbies get boring since everyone learns each others tactics very quickly. So you died as a counselor because you couldnt find an item, thats fine. This games IP is based in the horror genre.

Your narrow view of what you think this game should be just hurts your argument. What the definition of doing really well to you?Everyone escaping? Four people escaping? One person escaping? I know some Jason's mains think that if even one person escapes the game is unbalanced. By having the game meet the parameters you set for it you want it to be less random which you said is what makes the game fun. If I sat you in a match where an item that you needed to escape was lost on Jarvis map would you feel horror walking around for 20 mins trying to find it or feel annoyed? I know I would feel annoyed.

1 hour ago, ThePunkPirate said:

In the end I feel youre wrong. People arent just leaving because of a lack of content because we didnt have any content before really and we were all still having fun. Its tied to people thinking there needs to be balance in a 1v1 scenario in a 1vsAll game, people thinking they dont need to communicate in a team objective game, and so on.

So you think more people left in the one month span from Oct to now than in the 5 months it took us to get to Oct with nothing really new? Thats a pretty bold statement. The majority of the encounters in this game are 1v1 encounters and they are still entirely in Jason's favor. Even in group scenarios you can shit all over counselors because block still stops every melee attack even from behind, body block whatever they are trying to fix with block up and they can't do shit except scatter.

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