Jump to content
Alcanx

Remove pocket knives and make traps disarmable via QTE

Recommended Posts

Pocketknives, we love them as councilors and hate them as Jason. I've been mulling them over recently and have come to the conclusion that they are VASTLY overrated. 

They are good for two things; escaping Jasons grasp and disarming traps. Lets break those down.

Firstly, you have the obvious use, the get out of jail free card. People will rarely use their knives for anything other than this, but really, what's the point?

People get a false sense of security from knives, it makes them cocky, comfortable, able to dance in Jason's face without a hint of regret. It plays into the 'scooby-doo' dilema. This is a horror game, it's meant to make you feel on edge, afraid, paranoid. It's meant to get the blood pumping. If all of that can be countered by a flimsy flip-knife, then there's a problem. 

If you're one of those people that treat a pocketknife like it's the holy grail, then let me ask you something. What happens after he grabs you? If he can grab you once, he can do it again. Without your knife, you're back to being a juicy teenage delicacy and he's still coming to carve out a slice with his machete. You're just prolonging the inevitable. 

There are already ways to escape his grasp, or even avoid getting grabbed in the first place. As with any horror game, the more ways you have to escape the monster, the less intimidating it becomes. 

Pocketknifes are a lone wolves best friend, and lone wolves should have it rough. If you want to survive, you need to work together, grab save eachother, distract him so your friend can regen stamina or heal. Allow me to shamlessly quote GOT here, "the lone wolf dies but the pack survives". 

Then there's the second use; disarming traps. Doubtless the devs made this only possible with a knife for balance reasons. The problem is the above, people are selfish with knives and if you're not, you'd better hope you're lucky enough to find one. 

I'd say that disarming is their REAL use, if you pocketknife Jason, he's back to being Jason again in 5 seconds. If you pocketknife a trap however, it stays disarmed. Yes you can disarm traps with a spray, and honestly that needs fixing somehow, but ideally you'd want to do it silently.

In my opinion, Jason should be able to reset traps that were triggered by foot, this implies that you didn't see the trap and it's working as intended. Disarming a trap would be like sabotaging it, rendering it useless. Replace pocketknives with a QTE based on composure to disarm, or just a general, medium-difficulty QTE. 

It would also add a second layer or difficulty to the police escape, because lord knows that's technically the easiest, even without the cop perk. People would have to group up and work together to survive, lone councillors would likely die as would anyone who meets Jason in a 1v1 scenario. People would no longer stop and taunt at the exit or risk getting shift-grabbed. 

The knife badge could also be replaced with a 'saboteur/traps disarmed' badge.

TL;DR: Removing Knives would add to the feeling of horror and helplessness, remove the false sense of security and overconfidence, reduce the amount of dance parties at the cops and encourage people to work together to survive, and to actually escape when given the chance. 

(Sorry if there's any grammar/spelling errors btw, I'm on mobile.)

 

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like this idea, brings back the danger of being around Jason. Frankley, jason at the moment has lost his fear factor, people no longer are weary of Jason, they just gang up on him,like an angry mob baying for blood, I've never seen so many Jason's recently running scare of councillor's, kind of takes the atmosphere out of the game, Jason should not be fearing the councillors, the councillors should be fearing Jason. I love this game, but I want the 'oh shit' feeling when Jason starts chasing you, like it was when we first started playing this game.

 

#makejasonscaryagain

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think pocketknives have their place in here. You said it yourself; they are sought after because it's a means to avoid certain death. The chances of breaking free from the clutches of Jason manually or thanks to the counselor next to you is wishful thinking really. If the timing is right, Jason can swing the victim into the direction of the swing and kill them in front of those who tried to smack him. Human error and the game taking control away from the player with the dead body mechanic, as well as the stumbling mechanic, adversely affect the counselor's survival already. I'm still in favor of the pocketknife saving the user because of these circumstances.

I will say this: Ganging up on Jason with 2+ others is essentially a pocketknife anyway due to the chance to be freed, but there is also the chance that they miss and the counselor's supplies are dwindled anyway. If counselors decide to team up on and beat Jason up, I firmly support giving Jason the rage ability in the instance his mask is removed.

The disparity between the confidence of having a pocketknife and hopelessness when it is lost excites me as well. Having that difference creates a dramatic effect psychologically compared to not having one at all. There is still a purpose regardless of having one or not in terms of conflict between Jason and the counselors. Without pocketknives, you have to accept the fact that you are already dead. Some people might be to scared to go out alone, some work together, while others race to complete objectives fast because their survival chance depends upon them. When you have a pocketknife, your confidence should be boosted enough to wander alone (to Jason's benefit), and get out there and repair objectives with an even greater emphasis because you are not expendable at that point. The survival of the team relies upon the selfish/selfless actions of others. Now in terms of climactic moments, the "chase" is what provides the tension between Jason and his victims. If pocketknives are removed, the tragedy of the chase loses its dynamic when counselors are dead without a second chance.

 

The police are no doubt the greatest threat to Jason, since it is an escape method that anyone can choose. Jason can still put pressure on repaired cars and boats because they must be occupied to escape. The severity of said pressure depends on the chosen Jason's strengths and weaknesses. I saw @VenomSymbiote bring up the method (in this thread above) the ability for Jason to get the rage ability if the cops are called. If counselors choose to call the police they'd have to survive against Jason with advanced ability cooldowns (13 seconds for strengths, 20 seconds for average, and 26 seconds for weaknesses), so there would be a consequence for calling early game before repairing other objectives or scavenging. 

When you see a trap you have two options: tank the trap or disarm it. More often it's just easier to tank the trap because of the possibility to fail the skill check, or because one or more traps exist. One could argue that tanking traps is unfair when damage is so easily circumvented with Thick Skinned, Medic and health sprays galore. Maybe this is the leverage that Jason has always needed in order to combat the "counterplay" that the counselors use to "counterplay" Jason's traps.

With rage mode kicking in instantly, pocketknives would be cherished even more in terms of combat. The reason why I say this is because I don't believe that the traps were ever intended to be a reliable means to kill. If a trap goes off, it is expected for Jason to morph over to you and snuff you out of existence with the cinematic kills. The thrill of the chase depends upon it! Now I know we don't necessarily see "eye to eye" regarding the use of pocketknives: you are in favor of using them for stealthy disarms, while I favor the "second chance" aspect of them. I respect both usages, but if I have less than or equal to 5 in Repair, I'm tanking the trap with Thick Skinned and Medic. I'd rather have the pocketknife and lose it in a battle, than to never have it at all. The pocketknife is what saved Tommy Jarvis in Part V, after all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Alcanx said:

First of all, I'd like you to kindly put away your torches and pitchforks and simply hear me out. If you still want to Savini me afterwards, that's totally cool. 

Pocketknives, we love them as councilors and hate them as Jason. I've been mulling them over recently and have come to the conclusion that they are VASTLY overrated. 

They are good for two things; escaping Jasons grasp and disarming traps. Lets break those down.

Firstly, you have the obvious use, the get out of jail free card. People will rarely use their knives for anything other than this, but really, what's the point?

People get a false sense of security from knives, it makes them cocky, comfortable, able to dance in Jason's face without a hint of regret. It plays into the 'scooby-doo' dilema. This is a horror game, it's meant to make you feel on edge, afraid, paranoid. It's meant to get the blood pumping. If all of that can be countered by a flimsy flip-knife, then there's a problem. 

If you're one of those people that treat a pocketknife like it's the holy grail, then let me ask you something. What happens after he grabs you? If he can grab you once, he can do it again. Without your knife, you're back to being a juicy teenage delicacy and he's still coming to carve out a slice with his machete. You're just prolonging the inevitable. 

There are already ways to escape his grasp, or even avoid getting grabbed in the first place. As with any horror game, the more ways you have to escape the monster, the less intimidating it becomes. 

Pocketknifes are a lone wolves best friend, and lone wolves should have it rough. If you want to survive, you need to work together, grab save eachother, distract him so your friend can regen stamina or heal. Allow me to shamlessly quote GOT here, "the lone wolf dies but the pack survives". 

Then there's the second use; disarming traps. Doubtless the devs made this only possible with a knife for balance reasons. The problem is the above, people are selfish with knives and if you're not, you'd better hope you're lucky enough to find one. 

I'd say that disarming is their REAL use, if you pocketknife Jason, he's back to being Jason again in 5 seconds. If you pocketknife a trap however, it stays disarmed. Yes you can disarm traps with a spray, and honestly that needs fixing somehow, but ideally you'd want to do it silently.

In my opinion, Jason should be able to reset traps that were triggered by foot, this implies that you didn't see the trap and it's working as intended. Disarming a trap would be like sabotaging it, rendering it useless. Replace pocketknives with a QTE based on composure to disarm, or just a general, medium-difficulty QTE. 

It would also add a second layer or difficulty to the police escape, because lord knows that's technically the easiest, even without the cop perk. People would have to group up and work together to survive, lone councillors would likely die as would anyone who meets Jason in a 1v1 scenario. People would no longer stop and taunt at the exit or risk getting shift-grabbed. 

The knife badge could also be replaced with a 'saboteur/traps disarmed' badge.

TL;DR: Removing Knives would add to the feeling of horror and helplessness, remove the false sense of security and overconfidence, reduce the amount of dance parties at the cops and encourage people to work together to survive, and to actually escape when given the chance. 

(Sorry if there's any grammar/spelling errors btw, I'm on mobile.)

 

Ohhhhhh hell to the no I like knifes so do a lot of people 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Moe9999633 said:

Ohhhhhh hell to the no I like knifes so do a lot of people 

Over 1000....

You can highlight and delete all but the appropriate part of the quoted message. You can also write "@" and the person's name if ur afraid people don't know who ur referring to. These threads turn into War & Peace with all these full quotes. It becomes a pretty big inconvenience when trying to read these on the phone.

 

Leave the pocket knives as is and give Jason the ability to block and reverse attacks for an instant kill. That'll show u how much balls a counselor has.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

idk to remove altogether but should be rare to find some matches you can find one and some where none spawn but tommys knife 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I got it.....you should only be able to hold one pocket knife at a time in your inventory. That'll solve everything.

Using a QTE to repair something makes sense but simply sticking a knife in a trap doesn't require much of any phalangeal dexterity. It would feel like overkill.  

Improving how Jason can see broken traps on his map would be a help too.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

Your idea is to nerf counselors. I think the solution is to buff Jason.

Exactly, this is my answer too. Add, don't subtract.

I agree with OP that pocket knives add a false sense of security, but whichever way you cut it, they're the closest thing to another life this game offers (other than Tommy). Hence why you don't see them being used for traps very often, as they're far more valuable as a failsafe if you get grabbed. Removing knives for this purpose is simply going to piss people off, we all know it.

A few counselors working together can tank the traps with the common med spray, fight Jason off and repair during his Stun. I do this often. Reason being is that even if you silently disable the trap, he can show up of his own accord anyway. On the other hand he might be in Morph cooldown and can't show up despite hearing the trap.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ya i think pocket knives are kind of lame.

 

Not sure if removing them is a good idea.  But it does give campers to much confidence which is why i agree with most of the OP 1st post.  You can always tell who has pocket knives because they act so cocky infront of Jason.  Baiting him to grab them..  

Maybe they should only spawn enough pocket knives in balance with how many traps Jasons has.   So if you used a Jason with only 3 traps..  Only 3 pocket knives spawn.


Or maybe even have a the repair circle pop up (Like when you repair the fuse box or pour gas)     And you only have one shot to hit the target spot.  With fear level being the over all factor in deciding how fast the the aimer spins.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ok don't remove but make them less common there should be no guarantee you will find one sometimes tommys knife should be the only one on the map

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, HuDawg said:

Ya i think pocket knives are kind of lame.

 

Not sure if removing them is a good idea.  But it does give campers to much confidence which is why i agree with most of the OP 1st post.  You can always tell who has pocket knives because they act so cocky infront of Jason.  Baiting him to grab them..  

Maybe they should only spawn enough pocket knives in balance with how many traps Jasons has.   So if you used a Jason with only 3 traps..  Only 3 pocket knives spawn.


Or maybe even have a the repair circle pop up (Like when you repair the fuse box or pour gas)     And you only have one shot to hit the target spot.  With fear level being the over all factor in deciding how fast the the aimer spins.  

I like the idea of pocketknives being equal to his traps, I feel like part 2 would become a hack-and-slasher though aha. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Alcanx said:

First of all, I'd like you to kindly put away your torches and pitchforks and simply hear me out. If you still want to Savini me afterwards, that's totally cool. 

Pocketknives, we love them as councilors and hate them as Jason. I've been mulling them over recently and have come to the conclusion that they are VASTLY overrated. 

They are good for two things; escaping Jasons grasp and disarming traps. Lets break those down.

Firstly, you have the obvious use, the get out of jail free card. People will rarely use their knives for anything other than this, but really, what's the point?

People get a false sense of security from knives, it makes them cocky, comfortable, able to dance in Jason's face without a hint of regret. It plays into the 'scooby-doo' dilema. This is a horror game, it's meant to make you feel on edge, afraid, paranoid. It's meant to get the blood pumping. If all of that can be countered by a flimsy flip-knife, then there's a problem. 

If you're one of those people that treat a pocketknife like it's the holy grail, then let me ask you something. What happens after he grabs you? If he can grab you once, he can do it again. Without your knife, you're back to being a juicy teenage delicacy and he's still coming to carve out a slice with his machete. You're just prolonging the inevitable. 

There are already ways to escape his grasp, or even avoid getting grabbed in the first place. As with any horror game, the more ways you have to escape the monster, the less intimidating it becomes. 

Pocketknifes are a lone wolves best friend, and lone wolves should have it rough. If you want to survive, you need to work together, grab save eachother, distract him so your friend can regen stamina or heal. Allow me to shamlessly quote GOT here, "the lone wolf dies but the pack survives". 

Then there's the second use; disarming traps. Doubtless the devs made this only possible with a knife for balance reasons. The problem is the above, people are selfish with knives and if you're not, you'd better hope you're lucky enough to find one. 

I'd say that disarming is their REAL use, if you pocketknife Jason, he's back to being Jason again in 5 seconds. If you pocketknife a trap however, it stays disarmed. Yes you can disarm traps with a spray, and honestly that needs fixing somehow, but ideally you'd want to do it silently.

In my opinion, Jason should be able to reset traps that were triggered by foot, this implies that you didn't see the trap and it's working as intended. Disarming a trap would be like sabotaging it, rendering it useless. Replace pocketknives with a QTE based on composure to disarm, or just a general, medium-difficulty QTE. 

It would also add a second layer or difficulty to the police escape, because lord knows that's technically the easiest, even without the cop perk. People would have to group up and work together to survive, lone councillors would likely die as would anyone who meets Jason in a 1v1 scenario. People would no longer stop and taunt at the exit or risk getting shift-grabbed. 

The knife badge could also be replaced with a 'saboteur/traps disarmed' badge.

TL;DR: Removing Knives would add to the feeling of horror and helplessness, remove the false sense of security and overconfidence, reduce the amount of dance parties at the cops and encourage people to work together to survive, and to actually escape when given the chance. 

(Sorry if there's any grammar/spelling errors btw, I'm on mobile.)

 

16

My issue with removing pocket knives is that there are times in the first 2 minutes of the game where I happen to spawn where the phone box is, I get attacked.

Without the possibility of having a pocket knife, I'd just die immediately.
Where's the chase? Where's the drama?

I find good Jasons are persistent, relentless, and don't care if they get tripped up by a pocket knife. In fact, I've played games where counsellor's have pulled all kinds of stunts and I STILL killed everyone flawlessly.

No pocket knives would make the game  shorter, less exciting, and as a counsellor, annoying...to watch an entire match go by if you die immediately because you have a crappy spawn point or no resources at the top of the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, jonny-myers said:

My issue with removing pocket knives is that there are times in the first 2 minutes of the game where I happen to spawn where the phone box is, I get attacked.

Without the possibility of having a pocket knife, I'd just die immediately.
Where's the chase? Where's the drama?

What are the chances that you find a knife in the first draw you look in? You're more likely to get crackers, in which case just throw them at him as he enters and climb out a window. 

I don't believe in crappys spawns, just run away, he doesn't have shift yet. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Redcat345 said:

QTE? I'm bad at acronyms.

Quick time event? im not sure i just think they are talking about the button press thing u do for putting gas and battery in the car

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 18.11.2017 at 8:16 PM, Alcanx said:

...If you want to survive, you need to work together,...

Collaboration in random mode ? - Good idea ;)  

Write to the top players who consciously play Vanessa, Buggzy or Tiffany.  High stamina or speed , they will not repair the car, the boat, or the phone. This is the problem. People can work together, but they do not have anyone. 

 

Pocketknives bleh ? It's ok for me ;) BUT we need more weapons, more perks, more opportunities during the match. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, Davidt said:

Quick time event? im not sure i just think they are talking about the button press thing u do for putting gas and battery in the car

@Redcat345

Yes, quick time event. The thing you do when repairing an objective. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...