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ThePunkPirate

ThePunkPirates Guide to Weapons and Combat

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This is a work in progress and is going to be worked on further in the next coming days.
Special thanks go to @Alkavian and @Tommy86 who suggested I run tests and have other info based on Mechanics in other threads:
Rydog's Guide working on updating if changes are needed. This might be in a different thread or further down the line

The Playbook  by @Alkavian

All Tests are being done without perks to isolate the Strength stat and using a Machete

The stats so far:

Kenny vs Pt3 (base HP for Jasons)

5 normal swings

combat swings

5 bear traps and normal swings

10 bear traps and 1 normal swing

So from this we can determine so far that 5 bear traps on Jason is equal to 2 normal swings. 2.5 bear traps are equal to 1 non-combat swing.

I went ahead and tested several more times with each test and everything seems consistent. I went ahead and tested to see if 13 bear traps would remove his mask, however they did not. I even did an extra 2 and it seems like there is a cap to damage on the bear traps at the least, always needing at least 1 swing from a weapon, in this case the machete, to remove his mask. 
 

Buggzy (Max Strength) vs Pt3

normal swings

combat swings

During this test a new discovery was made. While testing we ran into more stuns than with Kenny. With this we discovered that swings which end in Jason being stunned NO DAMAGE!!!  This is reflected in the following trials thanks to @BomberBuddy
 

normal swings, 1st one being a stun hit

combat swings, 1 being a stun

stuns and 1 combat swing (mask still on)

This could possibly be the reason why there are many inconsistencies with Jason mask removal. 

Update: stuns do no damage to Jason. In the tests we removed the stuns in the count towards the damage and came to the original number without stuns each time.

Deb/Jenny(Minimum Strength) vs Pt3

normal swings

combat swings

With these tests conclude, at least on the machete, its safe yo assume that combat stance actually DOUBLES your damage rounded up. So for 1 strength you take 4 swings, half of 8 and for Kenny you take 3 swings, half of 5 which is 2.5, rounded, is 3.

Jason Damage

+Weapon Damage: to cripple, to kill
=Weapon Damage: 3 to cripple, 5 to kill.

Throwing Knives: 2 to cripple, to kill

So if we conclude that Jason has 100 health like @Alkavian stated below, this means counselors do as well and they do the same amount of damage to one another. HOWEVER Jasons combat stance does NOT double his damage like counselors. Also this means that with a normal strength Jason, its better to combine knives with swings since theyre the same as +Weapon Damage.

If there is anyone else that would like to help test the number and mechanics in the game on PS4 please feel free to add me on PSN.

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40 minutes ago, ThePunkPirate said:

Kenny (no Perks) vs Pt3 (base HP for Jasons)
 

Machete

5 normal swings

combat swings

5 bear traps and normal swings

10 bear traps and 1 normal swing

Thanks for the shout-out.

So, if these numbers are consistent for Kenny using a machete; here is what I can extrapolate. I'm going to make an assumption that Jason has 100 hit points:

1. Each normal swing equates to 20 damage dealt. 100/5 = 20

2. Each combat swing equates to 33.34 damage dealt (rounded for the repeating number). 100/3 = 33.333333

3. Each bear trap equates to 8 damage dealt. 3*20 = 60, 100-60 = 40, 40/5 = 8

4. Just to confirm; 10*8 = 80, 100-80 = 20, 1 normal swing at 20 proofs the calculation.

Nice job.;)

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Just now, Alkavian said:

Thanks for the shout-out.

So, if these numbers are consistent for Kenny. Here is what I can extrapolate. I'm going to make an assumption that Jason has 100 hit points:

1. Each normal swing equates to 20 damage dealt. 100/5 = 20

2. Each combat swing equates to 33.34 damage dealt (rounded for the repeating number). 100/3 = 33.333333

3. Each bear trap equates to 8 damage dealt. 3*20 = 60, 100-60 = 40, 40/5 = 8

4. Just to confirm; 10*8 = 80, 100-80 = 20, 1 normal swing at 20 proofs the calculation.

Nice job.;)

Keep in mind though, that even with those numbers, Traps cannot remove the mask. This is why I tested tanking 15 traps to be sure. Thats not to say that perhaps a flare or firecrackers have be the "Final Hit" to remove the mask.

Happy you like the tests so far. Theres still much, much more to go through but this is a start to better assigning numerical value to some of our actions in game.

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Aww yeah, it's gettin' deep in here! I'd love to assist with uncovering the quantitative mysteries of Friday the 13th. Sending you a friend request now!

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2 minutes ago, ThePunkPirate said:

Keep in mind though, that even with those numbers, Traps cannot remove the mask. This is why I tested tanking 15 traps to be sure. Thats not to say that perhaps a flare or firecrackers have be the "Final Hit" to remove the mask.

Happy you like the tests so far. Theres still much, much more to go through but this is a start to better assigning numerical value to some of our actions in game.

You'll need to get numbers for a character with 1 Strength and 10 Strength. We may be able to figure out what bonus to damage each pip in the stat grants.

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3 minutes ago, Alkavian said:

You'll need to get numbers for a character with 1 Strength and 10 Strength. We may be able to figure out what bonus to damage each pip in the stat grants.

I think Ill do that before the Hit Points and Defense testing. Ill have to forego testing perks on top of the extreams due to no perfect rolled Epics. Do we know which image for weapon pips is the current one? Last I saw the ax and machete were both full pips in damage.

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Just now, ThePunkPirate said:

I think Ill do that before the Hit Points and Defense testing. Ill have to forego testing perks on top of the extreams due to no perfect rolled Epics.

I wouldn't worry about Perks for a bit. I'd run the counselors naked so the raw stats can be assessed. Good luck.:)

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Oh and on he Jason damage front, Jason with +Weapon Damage takes 2 hits to cripple and 4 to kill. This means even though counselors cant kill Jason with hits, theyre technically stronger :(

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16 minutes ago, ThePunkPirate said:

Oh and on he Jason damage front, Jason with +Weapon Damage takes 2 hits to cripple and 4 to kill. This means even though counselors cant kill Jason with hits, theyre technically stronger :(

To be fair, Jason's attacks/grabs are faster than the counselors, and counselor attack animations are canceled if they are attacked by Jason. Also, Jason can simply grab his prey in order to screw over any attempt by his victim to inflict damage, which makes it extremely dangerous for a counselor or even Tommy to fight him 1v1.

Even if you have a pocket knife it won't deal damage to him, and the longer you stay near Jason, the more fear will build up until your stamina regeneration starts to crap out.

In short, I wouldn't really worry about that little detail. In the bigger picture Jason is still an extremely vicious adversary as long as the player controlling him knows what they're doing. They just need to fix his combat stance bugs in the next patch so it won't feel like it's mandatory to use a running Jason in order to deal with mobs.

On another note, glad to see we've got another data cruncher in our midst. If I wasn't so busy nowadays I'd join in too, but I'll see if I can dig up information that could help.

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Great research. The only thing I would be careful of is str affecting stun chance. Its entirely possible that it does now but with the old rydog data. Adam supposedly had the lowest stun chance while only having 2 less str than Bugzy who was second after Chad for highest stun rate. I don't think such a wide spread would be possible unless 10 str is a plateau for increased stun chance. Its entirely possible that you were just lucky on RNG rolls for stun chance. It's really hard to pinpoint if this is the case or not without dev data since we aren't sure if luck actually affects chance.

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2 minutes ago, Jawbone said:

Great research. The only thing I would be careful of is str affecting stun chance. Its entirely possible that it does now but with the old rydog data. Adam supposedly had the lowest stun chance while only having 2 less str than Bugzy who was second after Chad for highest stun rate. I don't think such a wide spread would be possible unless 10 str is a plateau for increased stun chance. Its entirely possible that you were just lucky on RNG rolls for stun chance. It's really hard to pinpoint if this is the case or not without dev data since we aren't sure if luck actually affects chance.

I noticed more stuns from Deb too so Im pretty sure Strength doesnt effect it like I once read people. Without knowing for sure what base stats affect Stun chance, its hard to determine when you might get an unwanted stun when trying to remove the mask. It may be luck tied or something along those lines. But thats a test for another day.

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I'd always heard that stun chance was affected by both Strength and Luck. Which is why Buggzy could stun Jason well, but so could someone like Chad. And also why there isn't a high Strength & high Luck character in the game.

Your research should shed better light on that, of course.

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@ThePunkPirate

Thanks for posting all that! That should  come in handy. I'm going to feel really bad for you once they tweak something else and all of this becomes invalid... Until then, great work and  keep it up!

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Just now, Truth said:

@ThePunkPirate

Thanks for posting all that! That should  come in handy. I'm going to feel really bad for you once they tweak something else and all of this becomes invalid... Until then, great work and  keep it up!

Thanks a lot. As Ive said, theres so much that needs to be found out and revisited,but since this patch hasnt gone over too well and I feel we will be getting a patch soon with the hotfix for max level being release, I may only test some things here and there until then. If anything gets changed Ill be sure to note it, but the missing bits will come eventually.

The real praise should go to everyone that has helped me thus far in Private Matches. I know its not always the most fun thing to just swing a few times at Jason and then get killed to reset and do it several more times.

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1 minute ago, ThePunkPirate said:

Thanks a lot. As Ive said, theres so much that needs to be found out and revisited,but since this patch hasnt gone over too well and I feel we will be getting a patch soon with the hotfix for max level being release, I may only test some things here and there until then. If anything gets changed Ill be sure to note it, but the missing bits will come eventually.

The real praise should go to everyone that has helped me thus far in Private Matches. I know its not always the most fun thing to just swing a few times at Jason and then get killed to reset and do it several more times.

Boring, but in the end it's worth it. You've really shed some light on it and cleared some things up for me. It looks like it might be the same, but I wonder if we can find any differences between platforms.

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Just now, Truth said:

Boring, but in the end it's worth it. You've really shed some light on it and cleared some things up for me. It looks like it might be the same, but I wonder if we can find any differences between platforms.

I dont think there would be any difference between platforms unless they're on separate builds, which I dont think has been the case since the little accident at launch.

With all this information I hope to help those that wish to be on the offense when encountering Jason. (I know that sounds silly with how counselors seem to beat him senseless in this current build).

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16 hours ago, DamonD7 said:

I'd always heard that stun chance was affected by both Strength and Luck. Which is why Buggzy could stun Jason well, but so could someone like Chad. And also why there isn't a high Strength & high Luck character in the game.

Your research should shed better light on that, of course.

According to Rydog's tests in the past it was proven that Strength and Luck have no correlation to Stun chance. Whether or not that remains the same is the question.

Luck in general is a stat that requires heavy testing as it is largely undocumented on what it does other than affect weapon durability. In another thread recently, I disproved the information that Luck has any effect on stamina regen from hits, by observing the difference between AJ (1 Luck) and Chad (10 Luck) using baseball bat. Both were at zero stamina before hitting Jason, and both gained a bit over 50% after the hit. There is a whole lot of speculation about Luck with actually no hard evidence to back up all its supposed functions (other than durability). That's something I intend to change.

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I hate trying to test what Luck does in all video games. Its always a "mystery stat" that could have ANYTHING tied to it if the developers so deem it.

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1 hour ago, ThePunkPirate said:

I hate trying to test what Luck does in all video games. Its always a "mystery stat" that could have ANYTHING tied to it if the developers so deem it.

Well we do have a starting point of what to test, if you read the Luck section in This thread by @Kodiak which he has pinned in the forum. I have already proven one of those functions wrong (or at least to the degree that there is no meaningful difference), and I plan to test the remaining ones as well. I am actually curious where he acquired that information from to begin with.

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Bugzy can definitely knock of Jason's mask in a few hits.  I once got two free hits on Jason when his weapon got stuck in the window and his mask went off after the 2nd hit and the game just started.  Of course, no one seemed to acknowledge it and go for the sweater.  I usually go with Fox because she hits just as hard with a machete and can get the sweater.

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13 hours ago, Tommy86 said:

According to Rydog's tests in the past it was proven that Strength and Luck have no correlation to Stun chance. Whether or not that remains the same is the question.

Luck in general is a stat that requires heavy testing as it is largely undocumented on what it does other than affect weapon durability.

Luck is one of those stats that, I personally, would never have included in a game.

8 hours ago, ThePunkPirate said:

I hate trying to test what Luck does in all video games. Its always a "mystery stat" that could have ANYTHING tied to it if the developers so deem it.

Yup. In most cases they use it as an ash n' trash catch-all.

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10 hours ago, IronCatFish said:

Bugzy can definitely knock of Jason's mask in a few hits.  I once got two free hits on Jason when his weapon got stuck in the window and his mask went off after the 2nd hit and the game just started.  Of course, no one seemed to acknowledge it and go for the sweater.  I usually go with Fox because she hits just as hard with a machete and can get the sweater.

This is definitely supported by the data. Keep in mind these were all tests run with a controlled environment, so it doesnt factor in what teammates may or may not have done to Jason. Bugzy indeed cam knock off the mask in 2 combat swings without perks and without prior damage. The main thing to keep in mind from these tests is how much combat swings help lower strength characters as compared to the higher ones.

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@ThePunkPirate

I had an afk Jason so I took advantage. It took 3 hits with a machete as Vanessa to demask him. I'm pretty sure it was part 3 but I could be wrong. He either morphed or glitched somehow right after that though because I couldn't find him after Tommy spawned in...

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1 minute ago, Truth said:

@ThePunkPirate

I had an afk Jason so I took advantage. It took 3 hits with a machete as Vanessa to demask him. I'm pretty sure it was part 3 but I could be wrong. He either morphed or glitched somehow right after that though because I couldn't find him after Tommy spawned in...

To help clarify Truth, what Perks were you running? And at what percentages? Pirate has been doing his test naked to get the raw stats.

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5 hours ago, Alkavian said:

To help clarify Truth, what Perks were you running? And at what percentages? Pirate has been doing his test naked to get the raw stats.

Touche. I'll have to check but it's probably like marathon, light foot, and another non-combat perk.

I don't typically use her as a fighter so I don't think I would have any fighting perks on her.

@Alkavian I have thick skinned, marathon, and restful on her.

Edited by Truth

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