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1 hour ago, IFUMS said:

If you can’t get a kill with Jason then you need more practice. A skillful player can still wipe a full team. Get gud guys. Stop trying to make the game so easy. It SHOULD be hard to play as Jason. You’re taking a role where you’re trying to kill 7 potentially skillful counselors. Go practice and get ready

Just want to offer my perspective here. I do wipe most of the lobbies I play, but that doesn't mean all the bugs that Jason's gameplay is riddled with aren't a problem. Some of them you have described yourself, and I fight against those as much as I fight against the counselors. And although these bugs have nothing to do with balance, they do indirectly affect it as a result, since clunky character control and unreliable execution get in the way of your ability to deal with counselors.

His grab for instance is not fine. The distance may be fine, but the design is not. I don't play Jason spamming grab and hoping for the best, I focus on slowing down / crippling the counselors first. After that they cannot escape the grab, unless of course the mechanic itself fails. Grab's close range issues mean Jason's hand can literally be clipping through the counselor's head, but not actually pick them up. That is what needs fixing. The cone shape of grab is what causes it, and it has always been the case but simply to a lesser extent than what it is now post-patch.

Like I said, doesn't mean I can't deal with it. You say you would like this game to be looked at competitively, and I would too. I value skill and strategy, and I have a lot of knowledge about the game which I share here on a daily basis. But there are issues with it that make it difficult to embrace the competitive side. Jason does need fixing, not to make it easy for him, but to provide consistency so that the outcome of a match is purely dependant on the player, not the issues they face as Jason.

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8 minutes ago, Tommy86 said:

Just want to offer my perspective here. I do wipe most of the lobbies I play, but that mean doesn't all the bugs that Jason's gameplay is riddled with aren't a problem. Some of them you have described yourself, and I fight against those as much as I fight against the counselors. And although these bugs have nothing to do with balance, they do indirectly affect it as a result, since clunky character control and unreliable execution get in the way of your ability to deal with counselors.

His grab for instance is not fine. The distance may be fine, but the design is not. I don't play Jason spamming grab and hoping for the best, I focus on slowing down / crippling the counselors first. After that they cannot escape the grab, unless of course the mechanic itself fails. Grab's close range issues mean Jason's hand can literally be clipping through the counselor's head, but not actually pick them up. That is what needs fixing. The cone shape of grab is what causes it, and it has always been the case but simply to a lesser extent than what it is now post-patch.

Like I said, doesn't mean I can't deal with it. You say you would like this game to be looked at competitively, and I would too. I value skill and strategy, and I have a lot of knowledge about the game which I share here on a daily basis. But there are issues with it that make it difficult to embrace the competitive side. Jason does need fixing, not to make it easy for him, but to provide consistency so that the outcome of a match is purely dependant on the player, not the issues they face as Jason.

I've gotten to the point that I won't waste words trying to explain this stuff to the "git gud" guys. They clearly don't understand and I somehow doubt they can even manage to read a post beyond 50 or so words.

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12 minutes ago, AldermachXI said:

I've gotten to the point that I won't waste words trying to explain this stuff to the "git gud" guys. They clearly don't understand and I somehow doubt they can even manage to read a post beyond 50 or so words.

The whole "git gud" shit has really run its course.  It's annoying AF.  I don't blame you for not wasting your words trying to explain anything to them. 

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So, I took a break from F13 for almost a month when "The Evil Within 2" came out. Came back within the last few days and started playing again, and have noticed a lot of differences. I can't speak to all of Jasons being nerfed as I almost always play as Part 3, but after shaking the rust off, I have noticed the differences. I would more often than not get clean sweeps in every game I play as Jason. Now, not so much. Still get them the majority of the time, but with the grab nerfed, melee nerfed, and almost literally any hit I take, from any weapon and from any counselor, resulting in a stun, it's made it a lot more challenging. And in the words of Billy Mays, but that's not all!

I have several friends I play with regularly, all but two have lost most of their interest in the game. One in particular, who has been playing about as much and as long as I have, has yet to hit 500 matches as Jason, and I found it baffling. He would tell me the hosts always rage-quit before he's done, and I thought he was exaggerating. Now I've also complained about this in the past, I'd easily have 100+ more matches as Jason under my belt if not for rage-quitting hosts, but last night three of us got on at the same time (a rarity these days), and I suggested we look for a lobby where we were hosting so as least to prevent this. They voted against, and said let's just join a lobby and play. I watched three hosts quit on him as Jason in rapid succession.

Now I'll say this, I consider myself to be above average as Jason, but my friend is not only I'd say a better Jason than me, but he plays very different. He doesn't even use traps on objectives most of the time, the counselors he's playing against have more chance to escape than almost any I've seen, he has more fun the more challenging it is. And he still gets clean sweeps, but almost never a completed match unless one of us is hosting. He hit his 1313 kills some time ago but still hasn't hit 500 matches as Jason.

So last night I could hear how bummed he was that every host was rage-quitting so I pretty much insisted we find an empty lobby at that point where we were hosting. Found one, second match he was Jason, and the match went on a bit. Of the three of us friends playing he was Jason, one of us escaped and the other he killed, which left five since no one called in Jarvis. The last two counselors eluded him down to around the 4-minute mark, and as soon as he caught up to both, both quit before he could even grab them. Had either of them had been hosting, they would have undoubtedly closed the entire lobby and ended the game.

TL;DR: Of the myriad of problems still present in this game are the oft-promised and never delivered dedicated servers. These aren't "git gud" players that are ruining this game, these are players who aren't playing to escape, they're not playing to kill Jason, I'm not sure why they're playing at all. In this last game I described all the car parts and fuse were picked up and dropped, anyone could have made a play for them, no one did. And then they quit. And these aren't level 5 players, I always look at people's levels in the lobby, these are people that have been playing for WAY too long to be pulling this kind of shit. Talk about sucking the fun and life out of a game.

 

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1 hour ago, Tommy86 said:

Just want to offer my perspective here. I do wipe most of the lobbies I play, but that doesn't mean all the bugs that Jason's gameplay is riddled with aren't a problem. Some of them you have described yourself, and I fight against those as much as I fight against the counselors. And although these bugs have nothing to do with balance, they do indirectly affect it as a result, since clunky character control and unreliable execution get in the way of your ability to deal with counselors.

His grab for instance is not fine. The distance may be fine, but the design is not. I don't play Jason spamming grab and hoping for the best, I focus on slowing down / crippling the counselors first. After that they cannot escape the grab, unless of course the mechanic itself fails. Grab's close range issues mean Jason's hand can literally be clipping through the counselor's head, but not actually pick them up. That is what needs fixing. The cone shape of grab is what causes it, and it has always been the case but simply to a lesser extent than what it is now post-patch.

Like I said, doesn't mean I can't deal with it. You say you would like this game to be looked at competitively, and I would too. I value skill and strategy, and I have a lot of knowledge about the game which I share here on a daily basis. But there are issues with it that make it difficult to embrace the competitive side. Jason does need fixing, not to make it easy for him, but to provide consistency so that the outcome of a match is purely dependant on the player, not the issues they face as Jason.

 I understand that Jason’s grab registration is now as unrealistic as his long distant grabs from before,  you can see his arm literally pass through players. This was a problem since day one actually but nobody really cared because the long distance grab help those types of Jason’s. I’ve noticed that not all Jasons has the same type of grab mechanic and I think this is what’s causing some of the issues. 

Do a test and you will see what I mean. Take a Savini Jason and have him next to but faced away from a counselor a bit and start his grab and quickly swing around. You will notice this Jason is able to grab a couselor anytime during his animation. Try the same with Spear Jason.

Maybe the fix is as easy as making all Jason grabs the same. IDK

I just don’t want the old grab to comeback guys. I rather people just try to get better than to bring that back.

Sorry for using the phrase “get gud” I swear I was being sarcastic and am really not one of those types of players I am actually more helpful in game than anything else.

twitch.tv/ifums 

 

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15 minutes ago, Switters said:

So, I took a break from F13 for almost a month when "The Evil Within 2" came out. Came back within the last few days and started playing again, and have noticed a lot of differences. I can't speak to all of Jasons being nerfed as I almost always play as Part 3, but after shaking the rust off, I have noticed the differences. I would more often than not get clean sweeps in every game I play as Jason. Now, not so much. Still get them the majority of the time, but with the grab nerfed, melee nerfed, and almost literally any hit I take, from any weapon and from any counselor, resulting in a stun, it's made it a lot more challenging. And in the words of Billy Mays, but that's not all!

I have several friends I play with regularly, all but two have lost most of their interest in the game. One in particular, who has been playing about as much and as long as I have, has yet to hit 500 matches as Jason, and I found it baffling. He would tell me the hosts always rage-quit before he's done, and I thought he was exaggerating. Now I've also complained about this in the past, I'd easily have 100+ more matches as Jason under my belt if not for rage-quitting hosts, but last night three of us got on at the same time (a rarity these days), and I suggested we look for a lobby where we were hosting so as least to prevent this. They voted against, and said let's just join a lobby and play. I watched three hosts quit on him as Jason in rapid succession.

Now I'll say this, I consider myself to be above average as Jason, but my friend is not only I'd say a better Jason than me, but he plays very different. He doesn't even use traps on objectives most of the time, the counselors he's playing against have more chance to escape than almost any I've seen, he has more fun the more challenging it is. And he still gets clean sweeps, but almost never a completed match unless one of us is hosting. He hit his 1313 kills some time ago but still hasn't hit 500 matches as Jason.

So last night I could hear how bummed he was that every host was rage-quitting so I pretty much insisted we find an empty lobby at that point where we were hosting. Found one, second match he was Jason, and the match went on a bit. Of the three of us friends playing he was Jason, one of us escaped and the other he killed, which left five since no one called in Jarvis. The last two counselors eluded him down to around the 4-minute mark, and as soon as he caught up to both, both quit before he could even grab them. Had either of them had been hosting, they would have undoubtedly closed the entire lobby and ended the game.

TL;DR: Of the myriad of problems still present in this game are the oft-promised and never delivered dedicated servers. These aren't "git gud" players that are ruining this game, these are players who aren't playing to escape, they're not playing to kill Jason, I'm not sure why they're playing at all. In this last game I described all the car parts and fuse were picked up and dropped, anyone could have made a play for them, no one did. And then they quit. And these aren't level 5 players, I always look at people's levels in the lobby, these are people that have been playing for WAY too long to be pulling this kind of shit. Talk about sucking the fun and life out of a game.

 

I dream of dedicated servers for PS4.

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Here's my video again on a few fix ideas - 

but I agree jason players shouldn't have to get stressed out and constantly trolled by councelors!!! Take the cops away after 1:30 minutes after they arrive they leave if you didn't get down there on time tuff shit your screwed! Give part 7 jason the weed whacker he'll make all Jason's fast running or ****walking Jason's walk really really fast **** 

make jason OP!!!! It should be a JOB to finally escape 

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19 minutes ago, PowellCampsNAKED said:

Here's my video again on a few fix ideas - 

but I agree jason players shouldn't have to get stressed out and constantly trolled by councelors!!! Take the cops away after 1:30 minutes after they arrive they leave if you didn't get down there on time tuff shit your screwed! Give part 7 jason the weed whacker he'll make all Jason's fast running or ****walking Jason's walk really really fast **** 

make jason OP!!!! It should be a JOB to finally escape 

I can assure you, it's still work to escape in a lobby with an experienced Jason. I still kill everyone in Public Matches. Our club has some great matches still...Counselors have to WORK because most of our Jasons are pretty damn good (even with the changes) and Jason is definitely on his toes because everyone we play with pushes objectives HARD and they usually manage to split Jasons between objectives. We co-ordinate tripping the fuse box traps and the car traps, leading to Jason needing to make a choice. You can't take the Public Match experience and base changes on that. Quickmatch is either Jason stomping do-nothing counselors, or counselors escaping a clueless Jason.

These games where it's ridiculously easy to escape only occur when Jason is straight up bad, to be honest. Or it's sometimes a matter of the bugs that are effecting Jason. If Jason gets one of the bugs where he can't interact or something, obviously people are gonna escape easily.

People are really starting to overthink this stuff. Most of the intended mechanics in the game are fine. It's just the bugs and glitches that cause a lot of problems.

I guarantee that no one playing with our club would say that escaping is too easy though, even with a gimped Jason.

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On ‎11‎/‎14‎/‎2017 at 10:21 PM, Frighteningicon said:

We don't need the old grab back, but this grab also need to be fixed

giphy.gif

 

 

I haven't played the game in a few weeks, but you got to be kidding me with that video clip. Is it seriously that bad all the time now with the grab? Who in the hell play tests this shit?

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32 minutes ago, AldermachXI said:

I can assure you, it's still work to escape in a lobby with an experienced Jason. I still kill everyone in Public Matches. Our club has some great matches still...Counselors have to WORK because most of our Jasons are pretty damn good (even with the changes) and Jason is definitely on his toes because everyone we play with pushes objectives HARD and they usually manage to split Jasons between objectives. We co-ordinate tripping the fuse box traps and the car traps, leading to Jason needing to make a choice. You can't take the Public Match experience and base changes on that. Quickmatch is either Jason stomping do-nothing counselors, or counselors escaping a clueless Jason.

These games where it's ridiculously easy to escape only occur when Jason is straight up bad, to be honest. Or it's sometimes a matter of the bugs that are effecting Jason. If Jason gets one of the bugs where he can't interact or something, obviously people are gonna escape easily.

People are really starting to overthink this stuff. Most of the intended mechanics in the game are fine. It's just the bugs and glitches that cause a lot of problems.

I guarantee that no one playing with our club would say that escaping is too easy though, even with a gimped Jason.

Yeah but this is an overall judgement on average of what I see in comments and in matches. I'm also a decent Jason player but when I get trolled it's sometimes crazy. You could be the best player in the world and councelors are gonna knock your ass down laughing as they all flee to the police ? 

I really hope they can make it more op as jason and harder on the councelors!  That would make your matches more interesting ?

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3 minutes ago, PowellCampsNAKED said:

Yeah but this is an overall judgement on average of what I see in comments and in matches. I'm also a decent Jason player but when I get trolled it's sometimes crazy. You could be the best player in the world and councelors are gonna knock your ass down laughing as they all flee to the police ? 

I really hope they can make it more op as jason and harder on the councelors!  That would make your matches more interesting ?

When the grab range wasn't nerfed, it was basically as hard as it needed to be. There's a bunch of us that would only let 1, maybe 2 escape on average. A lot of Jason players just don't know how to priorities the objectives. For example...if they're on the phone and a car...you go for the car. Most of us do everything we can to avoid the 4-seater getting started, as that is usually the easier way to let 4 counselors slip away. The call to the cops being made isn't the end of the world. There's a countdown and then they still have to get there.

I really don't think there's anything that needs changing other than the current broken grab / hit detection.

If you stop the 4-seater and the counselors mob you, start swinging - don't grab. They'll all be limping to safety in no time...

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5 minutes ago, AldermachXI said:

When the grab range wasn't nerfed, it was basically as hard as it needed to be. There's a bunch of us that would only let 1, maybe 2 escape on average. A lot of Jason players just don't know how to priorities the objectives. For example...if they're on the phone and a car...you go for the car. Most of us do everything we can to avoid the 4-seater getting started, as that is usually the easier way to let 4 counselors slip away. The call to the cops being made isn't the end of the world. There's a countdown and then they still have to get there.

I really don't think there's anything that needs changing other than the current broken grab / hit detection.

If you stop the 4-seater and the counselors mob you, start swinging - don't grab. They'll all be limping to safety in no time...

I disagree I feel the cops should leave the camp after 1:30 seconds I feel that walking Jason's should walk really really fast! It would also be nice for stalk to come in beginning!  Make it hard on councelors make them feel scared like the films... there shouldn't be8 year olds escaping every game!! 

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Just now, PowellCampsNAKED said:

I disagree I feel the cops should leave the camp after 1:30 seconds I feel that walking Jason's should walk really really fast! It would also be nice for stalk to come in beginning!  Make it hard on councelors make them feel scared like the films... there shouldn't be8 year olds escaping every game!! 

You know how I feel about Stalk...I think swapping it with Sense is the best route. You find counselors organically in the early game...You're supposed to be trapping/prepping at the objectives. You're gonna come across a counselor regardless of if you have Sense or not. Sense is more important later, once the herd has been thinned out. I fully agree with you there, although we differ on implementation (you think Jason should just have it from the start. I say give it 30 seconds or whatever it is, like Sense now). This at LEAST gives that poor sap who spawned at the Fuse Box cabin a chance to run away.

The 1:30 thing makes no sense to me, frankly. I think you're asking for too much with that. It would be lame to put so much damn work into getting the cops called only for them to leave after a minute and a half. Decent already guards the shit out of it once they show up...That's enough.

I'm not trying to be contentious with you, either. I just think the big picture needs to be considered. It's still a video game. There needs to be hope for the counselors, otherwise it's just boring. Nobody wants to play a game where they only succeed 1 in 10 tries.

All of this "it's too easy to escape" stuff stems from bad Jasons compounded with bugs that make it harder to play as Jason. It only became painfully apparent when they nerfed his grab.

I'll stream next time me and the club play...You'll see what I'm talking about. Playing with randoms is night and day. 

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3 minutes ago, AldermachXI said:

You know how I feel about Stalk...I think swapping it with Sense is the best route. You find counselors organically in the early game...You're supposed to be trapping/prepping at the objectives. You're gonna come across a counselor regardless of if you have Sense or not. Sense is more important later, once the herd has been thinned out. I fully agree with you there, although we differ on implementation (you think Jason should just have it from the start. I say give it 30 seconds or whatever it is, like Sense now). This at LEAST gives that poor sap who spawned at the Fuse Box cabin a chance to run away.

The 1:30 thing makes no sense to me, frankly. I think you're asking for too much with that. It would be lame to put so much damn work into getting the cops called only for them to leave after a minute and a half. Decent already guards the shit out of it once they show up...That's enough.

I'm not trying to be contentious with you, either. I just think the big picture needs to be considered. It's still a video game. There needs to be hope for the counselors, otherwise it's just boring. Nobody wants to play a game where they only succeed 1 in 10 tries.

All of this "it's too easy to escape" stuff stems from bad Jasons compounded with bugs that make it harder to play as Jason. It only became painfully apparent when they nerfed his grab.

I'll stream next time me and the club play...You'll see what I'm talking about. Playing with randoms is night and day. 

Well the police arrive it's a open invite till the end to escape and stressful situation on jason if they leave it puts more stress on councelors to find a an alternate route which fits the vibe to the films! Idk "damn prank drunk teens! Bernie let's go get some donuts"

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The current grab is NOT fine. Again, there was nothing wrong with the old grab. Seriously. I and MANY others I played with had no problem escaping before.

Looks like Participation trophy entitlement to me. You don't want to become great, you want to lower the bar so that being mediocre seems impressive.

But, due to the presence of the less skilled who complain, the length of grab should be 75% of the old grab but non-running Jasons' walking speed should be increased by 25% because honestly, they walk too slowly to catch anyone especially since the grab nerf.

I think that the reason that grab would reach as far as it did was because a counselor could sprint at the beginning of grab and be out of range before it could connect.

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Just played a game where both Part 9 Jason's ax and hand kept going through counselors without ever touching, grabbing, or hurting them. I actually apologized to the Jason player as other counselors danced around him.

Seriously, anyone who says Jason is fine now is retarded.

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20 minutes ago, Caulus said:

The current grab is NOT fine. Again, there was nothing wrong with the old grab. Seriously. I and MANY others I played with had no problem escaping before.

Looks like Participation trophy entitlement to me. You don't want to become great, you want to lower the bar so that being mediocre seems impressive.

But, due to the presence of the less skilled who complain, the length of grab should be 75% of the old grab but non-running Jasons' walking speed should be increased by 25% because honestly, they walk too slowly to catch anyone especially since the grab nerf.

I think that the reason that grab would reach as far as it did was because a counselor could sprint at the beginning of grab and be out of range before it could connect.

Yeah lets not go back to that.

Also walking Jasons only move 13% slower than running Jasons.

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@Jawbone You don't even play as Jason. You're team counselor 100%. Your preference was all counselor even before the patch.

As someone who hates playing as Jason, you shouldn't make suggestions about that part of the game. In other words, don't make suggestions about a part of the game that you don't play or that you don't care for.

The devs at Warframe experienced a similar thing. People who didn't use a certain warframe would complain about said frame being too good and cry for nerfs, the Rhino nerf being just one example. The people who actually played those frames screamed bloody murder when they listened and nerfed their frames.

Eventually DE, the Warframe team, decided (wisely, imo) that they should not listen to people that complain about parts of the game they don't play. They realized that some people push an agenda that makes their lives easier at the expense of other players, the game, and its balance.

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1 minute ago, Caulus said:

@Jawbone You don't even play as Jason. You're team counselor 100%. Your preference was all counselor even before the patch.

As someone who hates playing as Jason, you shouldn't make suggestions about that part of the game. In other words, don't make suggestions about a part of the game that you don't play or that you don't care for.

The devs at Warframe experienced a similar thing. People who didn't use a certain warframe would complain about said frame being too good and cry for nerfs, the Rhino nerf being just one example. The people who actually played those frames screamed bloody murder when they listened and nerfed their frames.

Eventually DE, the Warframe team, decided (wisely, imo) that they should not listen to people that complain about parts of the game they don't play. They realized that some people push an agenda that makes their lives easier at the expense of other players, the game, and its balance.

Implying that I am going to read anything past the first line when you just assume things.

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9 minutes ago, Jawbone said:

Implying that I am going to read anything past the first line when you just assume things.

Which is exactly the problem with players like you. You're only concerned about what? Yourself.

You know, I used to play the same game that you did, against the same grab. I've even been grabbed from seemingly unusual distances. You know what I didn't do?

Yep, that right: I didn't cry about it.... In contrast to you, I actually liked the game as it was

It made me play harder, learn more about the game's functions and rules. It was gloriously challenging and fun. This game is at its best when escaping is something to brag about.

Edit: By the time the Easy Mode patch came, I was already escaping 60% or more of the time. The game is unbearably boring now.

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1 minute ago, Caulus said:

Which is exactly the problem with players like you. You're only concerned about what? Yourself.

You know, I used to play the same game that you did, against the same grab. I've even been grabbed from seemingly unusual distances. You know what I didn't do?

Yep, that right: I didn't cry about it.... In contrast to you, I actually liked the game as it was

It made me play harder, learn more about the game's functions and rules. It was gloriously challenging and fun. This game is at its best when escaping is something to brag about.

The problem with me is that I don't assume things? Do you even read what you type?

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1 minute ago, Jawbone said:

The problem with me is that I don't assume things? Do you even read what you type?

There are only 2 or three people on my friends list who still play this game after the patch. That's out of the 15 (or more) people I had added while playing.

I know why they don't play anymore. All I had to do was ask them....

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2 minutes ago, Caulus said:

There are only 2 or three people on my friends list who still play this game after the patch. That's out of the 15 (or more) people I had added while playing.

I know why they don't play anymore. All I had to do was ask them....

Cool. On the other hand 6 months with almost no content usually sinks games pretty quick as well.

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I played this game exclusively since I got it, which was about the middle of July. Were it not for the grab nerf, among other things (read: most of patch), I'd still be playing this game. Exclusively.

...and I have a ginormous backlog.

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11 minutes ago, Caulus said:

I played this game exclusively since I got it, which was about the middle of July. Were it not for the grab nerf, among other things (read: most of patch), I'd still be playing this game. Exclusively.

...and I have a ginormous backlog.

Cool games aren't balanced around what one single random person wants. Would be pretty easy to sway their opinion if it was.

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