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Is Item Marking really that big of a deal?

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4 minutes ago, Alien_Number_Six said:

The item marking wouldn't even be an issue if it had not been introduced along with a pair of Jason nerfs that rendered him largely ineffective against good players coordinating with microphones. In fact if this had been implemented without the nerfs it would have been well received in my opinion. 

 It's easy to make the same claim even without item marking. A group of good, coordinated, Mic 'd counselors will have an advantage over jason regardless of item marking.  

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i main as a counselor and i don't like it. it's way too easy to escape now. I'm not outraged or anything, but I'd be fine with them removing it. 

if they're going to insist on keeping it, it needs to be nerfed. 

my suggestion is:

1. items marked with generic gear so players don't know what part was dropped. make players ask if it's worth going across the map for what may or may not be what they're looking for. 

2. the icon doesn't give the exact location but gives you the general vacinity. this will increase the risk involved with retrieving it. 

it prevents trolls from hiding parts (was that ever really a problem?) and it makes it much less of a gimme for the counselors.

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Just now, Manny1985 said:

 It's easy to make the same claim even without item marking. A group of good, coordinated, Mic 'd group of counselors will have an advantage over jason regardless of item marking.  

Not pre nerf. As long as you kept the kids on the map you could wipe them out. Now you can't keep them on the map because you can't kill them all quick enough to keep them from their objectives because your traps and grabs are useless.

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2 minutes ago, matisangry said:

prevents trolls from hiding parts (was that ever really a problem?)

In quick play, yes.

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1 minute ago, Truth said:

In quick play, yes.

i must be really lucky, then, because out of the hundreds of rounds I've slummed in QP, i can count seeing that happen on one hand. 

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12 minutes ago, Alien_Number_Six said:

Not pre nerf. As long as you kept the kids on the map you could wipe them out. Now you can't keep them on the map because you can't kill them all quick enough to keep them from their objectives because your traps and grabs are useless.

 Yes pre nerf, they still had the advantage because 

A) they would go for seperate objectives at the same time

B) they knew where general location of items based on objectives

C) they knew how to protect objectives.  This new feature isn't that big of an advantage. 

 

As far as jason goes,  I personally believe he is more balanced.  Grab distance was terrible before. It's still easy to plant multi traps in one objective.

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1 minute ago, Manny1985 said:

 Yes pre nerf, they still had the advantage because 

A) they would go for seperate objectives at the same time

B) they knew where general location of items based on objectives

C) they knew how to protect objectives.  This new feature isn't that big of an advantage. 

 

As far as jason goes,  I personally believe he is more balanced.  Shift distance was terrible before. It's still easy to plant multi traps in one objective.

Jason gets his ass beat off every match now and traps are useless. Traps deter no one and people don't even run from Jason anymore. Jason isn't supposed to be balanced. He's supposed to be overpowered because he is facing seven to one odds. This game isn't even fun anymore. As a counselor you escape most of the time and as Jason you get beat through the floor. 

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26 minutes ago, Manny1985 said:

 It's easy to make the same claim even without item marking. A group of good, coordinated, Mic 'd counselors will have an advantage over jason regardless of item marking.  

And that should be the skill the game is testing. If you're good as a counselor, and you all coordinate and work as a team, you should have a good game. That's the same for every game.

Item marking confers all those advantages to bad and non-communicating players. It makes it so anyone and everyone has an advantage over Jason.

Winning the game through being good is not a bad thing. Making it so any strategy and skill is no longer required, just because other people have strategy and skill, is a bad thing. It renders the game aspect of the game pointless.

17 minutes ago, matisangry said:

i must be really lucky, then, because out of the hundreds of rounds I've slummed in QP, i can count seeing that happen on one hand. 

I've played about 1500 game in QP according to my achievements, and have encountered it about 10 times.

Every time someone says item hiding is a huge problem, I just take them as insincere, which means they know their point isn't legitimate, and they're just covering for the fact they like that the game is now OP for their chosen side.

It also disregards the fact that item marking DOES NOT PREVENT ITEM HIDING and everyone knows this. You can still lock items in rooms then leave by the window, rendering them unrecoverable, or simply refuse to drop them.

As a defence of item marking, the whole "preventing people hiding items" is completely hollow. It was never an issue, and it's an issue this does nothing to solve.

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10 minutes ago, Alien_Number_Six said:

Jason gets his ass beat off every match now and traps are useless. Traps deter no one and people don't even run from Jason anymore. Jason isn't supposed to be balanced. He's supposed to be overpowered because he is facing seven to one odds. This game isn't even fun anymore. As a counselor you escape most of the time and as Jason you get beat through the floor. 

That's where we disagree.  Stunning build rage faster, so this helps jason.  I disagree traps are useless.  They still aid me greatly in finding counselors. Also shortening grab distance doesn't make jason weaker.  I still have a blast as jason. Even if I only kill 2 outta 10, this doesn't take away from my enjoyment factor. It makes those 8 outta games more enjoyable. 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, ZooMalfunction said:

And that should be the skill the game is testing. If you're good as a counselor, and you all coordinate and work as a team, you should have a good game. That's the same for every game.

Item marking confers all those advantages to bad and non-communicating players. It makes it so anyone and everyone has an advantage over Jason.

Winning the game through being good is not a bad thing. Making it so any strategy and skill is no longer required, just because other people have strategy and skill, is a bad thing. It renders the game aspect of the game pointless.

I've played about 1500 game in QP according to my achievements, and have encountered it about 10 times.

Every time someone says item hiding is a huge problem, I just take them as insincere, which means they know their point isn't legitimate, and they're just covering for the fact they like that the game is now OP for their chosen side.

It also disregards the fact that item marking DOES NOT PREVENT ITEM HIDING and everyone knows this. You can still lock items in rooms then leave by the window, rendering them unrecoverable, or simply refuse to drop them.

As a defence of item marking, the whole "preventing people hiding items" is completely hollow. It was never an issue, and it's an issue this does nothing to solve.

I don't think this is helping bad counselors.  Bad counselors don't even bother with objectives and hide the whole game. 

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1 hour ago, Alien_Number_Six said:

Jason gets his ass beat off every match now 

i bet tiffany is the one that does it for him. 

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This helps bad counselors in the way that someone else is doing the work for them. I've experienced a lot of hiders come out of the woodwork once I get the car going. I tend to pay real close attention to the map. I can usually tell who has been hiding and who I've seen running around looking for stuff.

and yes traps are simply an alarm system. Since I stopped giving a shit, I've switched to Chad. Some matches I just tank traps and still manage to escape/survive.

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45 minutes ago, matisangry said:

i must be really lucky, then, because out of the hundreds of rounds I've slummed in QP, i can count seeing that happen on one hand. 

So what about the other times you haven't seen it? The point is that you never knew if it was happening to you thus the change.

 

37 minutes ago, ZooMalfunction said:

And that should be the skill the game is testing. If you're good as a counselor, and you all coordinate and work as a team, you should have a good game. That's the same for every game.

Item marking confers all those advantages to bad and non-communicating players. It makes it so anyone and everyone has an advantage over Jason.

Winning the game through being good is not a bad thing. Making it so any strategy and skill is no longer required, just because other people have strategy and skill, is a bad thing. It renders the game aspect of the game pointless.

I've played about 1500 game in QP according to my achievements, and have encountered it about 10 times.

Every time someone says item hiding is a huge problem, I just take them as insincere, which means they know their point isn't legitimate, and they're just covering for the fact they like that the game is now OP for their chosen side.

It also disregards the fact that item marking DOES NOT PREVENT ITEM HIDING and everyone knows this. You can still lock items in rooms then leave by the window, rendering them unrecoverable, or simply refuse to drop them.

As a defence of item marking, the whole "preventing people hiding items" is completely hollow. It was never an issue, and it's an issue this does nothing to solve.

If you require people to be disorganized as Jason you were probably never that good in the first place.

Cool so out of your 1500 games you somehow remember exactly 10 games where you saw it happening. Now tell me about the others where you didn't see it happening. You can't? Hmm I wonder why that is. The only person being insincere here is you. The point being you would never know if someone purposely trolled you or not with hiding items because there was no way to know if they were hidden or not.

It 100% prevents item hiding and you know it. Cool someone locked the item in a second story locked room and I would know that this patch so I can stop wasting time looking for it. Pre-patch you would have absolutely no clue and be wasting time looking for it. Someone refusing to drop an item? With this patch if they aren't teaming with Jason when they die I will know where they brought the item to troll.Pre-patch it might as well not have even spawned on the map

This idea that since people can still troll that nothing is fixed is inane. We should revert bodyblocking and teamkilling in that case since trolling is still possible. We can go back to other counselors being the threat instead of Jason and at least then you can stop crying about people escaping.

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1 hour ago, ZooMalfunction said:

And that should be the skill the game is testing. If you're good as a counselor, and you all coordinate and work as a team, you should have a good game. That's the same for every game.

Item marking confers all those advantages to bad and non-communicating players. It makes it so anyone and everyone has an advantage over Jason.

Winning the game through being good is not a bad thing. Making it so any strategy and skill is no longer required, just because other people have strategy and skill, is a bad thing. It renders the game aspect of the game pointless.

I've played about 1500 game in QP according to my achievements, and have encountered it about 10 times.

Every time someone says item hiding is a huge problem, I just take them as insincere, which means they know their point isn't legitimate, and they're just covering for the fact they like that the game is now OP for their chosen side.

It also disregards the fact that item marking DOES NOT PREVENT ITEM HIDING and everyone knows this. You can still lock items in rooms then leave by the window, rendering them unrecoverable, or simply refuse to drop them.

As a defence of item marking, the whole "preventing people hiding items" is completely hollow. It was never an issue, and it's an issue this does nothing to solve.

How can you not see that item marking also gives Jason the advantage? 

As Jason if you kill a counsellor with the fuse, or car part, just camp that spot in stalk, and in no time Counsellors will be drawn to that location, and you just pick them off.

Was it easier for Jason when parts could get lost on the farthest outskirts of the map? Sure, but this game goes both ways. Yes believe it or not Jason is still more powerful. Before this update I was getting 8/8 every single game. Seriously it was too easy as Jason, and yes it should be a challenge to survive, but now since this update I occasionally have a bad game as Jason. And that is okay...

Maybe out of 10 jason rounds 2 may end with only 6/8 killed or a really bad game for me would be 4/8. But that is rare. My point is. I enjoy a challenging game as Jason just as much as a challenging game as a counsellor. A bad Jason is a bad Jason. If Jason is now having all 3 objectives getting started, then they seriously need to learn about objective controll. 

 

Regarding trolls hiding parts, it does happen, but more often it's probably new players that don't know how to drop an item, or are unfamiliar with the map layout.At least now if a troll does lock all the parts in the packinak kitchen you should at least see them on the map, so you now know calling the cops or repairing a car is worthless, and stocking up on weapons and surviving the night is the best option.I also frequently encounter players working with Jason. This is still common, and if a player is working with Jason I'd say theres a pretty good chance that player is gonna stash or hold onto parts like the fuse or keys. 

 

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1) Jasons traps are weak, an alarm Mechanism nothing to be feared, its stupid, because all someoe has to do is 1)pocket knife it okay, i can live with that.  But when people can just eat the trap, and spray and walk away fine and dandy, that is stupid.  Especially with the medic perk that gives you 2 uses out of 1 spray. So you can eat two traps and still be none the worse for ware.

2)I just literally watched a Tiffany evade Jason for 8 minutes climbing in and out of broken windows, getting hit with knives, getting hacked a few times, the entire time..she used 2 sprays.  So that tells me that again she had medic or 2 sprays on her.  So thick skin for the win, why worry about traps or broken windows? You can eat that shit and just smile.

3)The "magic map" feature, you are alone in the woods, no walkie, no map, by yourself, and you stumble across a fuse in a drawer in a near by cabin.  you pick it up,you continue your Journey..surprise Jason grabs you and offs you. But worry not young counselor, your lack of communication goes rewarded, your friends will still know where that fuse you found is.

4)Oh look, I am a 1-2 Strength counselor with a wrench. lets knock out an undead killing machine with 1 hit. Then proceed to dance over his body.

5)Oh look the cops are here, lets dance at the exit so we can use our 18 pocket knives to troll Jason instead of going for the escape, and lets force spectators to watch our stupidity the entire time.

6)Oh its Jason, don't worry I have Thick Skin, Medic, and Marathon, and I'm Vanessa.  Let Jason waste 10 minutes chasing me, I have a pocket knife and a med spray.

 

Now playing as Jason

1)Trap objective- Scary..people will eat them for lunch.

2)Go for the grab- Oh look, I can only grab DIRECTLY in front of me, damn people who can move 1 step to the left or right.

3)I will hack them...wait they have Thick skin..and my weapon does about as much damage as a pool noodle.

4)Oh there is the car, lets chase it, damn it, it is still faster than me when it is going in reverse.

5)Oh look a group of counselors standing by the exit, what should I do, eat 18 pocket knives, or just let them have their dance party.

6)Oh look its a deborah with a stick..lets go after her...wow she hit me once and leveled me.

 

yep, the game is "balanced" need I go on?

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It would be fine if it was limited to (a) items dropped by a player carrying a radio, and (b) items washed up on the shore from escaped players. As it is now, it's a way for players without radios to instantly give anyone with a map perfect information about objective components for the whole game.

Should be that a part, even if initially flagged on the map, is carried and dropped by a no-radio player...it vanishes off the map.

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1 hour ago, Jawbone said:

So what about the other times you haven't seen it? The point is that you never knew if it was happening to you thus the change.

sure, but the same could be said about your side. how do you know its happening if you can't see it? i base my opinion on:

1. never really hearing talk of it over mic, where people are quick to point out trolls. 

2. never really witnessing it in spectator mode. 

3. never really seeing it in-game while playing.

i think "hiding objectives"  is the "razor blade in the halloween candy" of friday the 13th. it's more myth than actual problem. that's not to say it NEVER happened because i have seen it very few times, but was it such a huge epidemic that it required such a big change to gameplay? i doubt it. 

it's just too passive a form of trolling for a lot of those idiots. they want to be noticed. it's why they exploit glitches, set traps in high traffic areas like inside windows, run people over with the car... stuff like that. 

 

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2 hours ago, dandop1984 said:

Overall I like it. 

As Jason it hasn't really effected my game in a negative way. Now when I kill a counsellor with the fuse, or car part. I just camp the part in stalk mode, and sure enough People are now drawn to that part. It's like a big red X on the map and their just going to their demise, so I don't understand how a lot of Jason players don't see the benefit in this new feature?

If you're Jason and you see a part get dropped. Keep an eye on it!, if you notice the gas and battery beside the car. Maybe you should camp near by in Stalk mode, and just wait for Deborah or AJ to come out of their hiding spots.

As a counsellor. I've had many matches with trolls hiding parts, or someone dies in the far outskirts of the map with a key item, and having to spend 15 minutes searching for a part, and to never find it, while entire lobbies are slowly being asphyxiated one by one by Purple Jason who never even put one trap on the phone box! when you should of escaped 15 minutes ago! Now that's frustrating.

I also haven't noticed a decrease in communication, some people think this update encourages less communication over the mic, maybe it does, but if your not communicating you may spend 5 minutes searching for the fuse or propellor while AJ already has those items and is running around in circles. So communicating is still important, as items only show up when dropped, not when their picked up.

Marking items on the map was an unnecessary addition in the first place. Stalking objective parts can be a valuable tactic because now everyone knows where they are on the map. Part of the tension in this game comes from communicating with others. If I died with an objective as a counselor and I call out my position, there was an uncertainty to whether or not it could be salvaged. As Jason, the risk was equally as uncertain. However, that uncertainty was coupled with a relief of eliminating an objective, even if it was only temporary. As Jason I would ask myself: Did anyone hear the callout? Will anyone actually dare to search in the woods for the lost objective? If it was quickplay: IS THE DEAD FUCK IN PARTY CHAT WITH THE OMNISCIENT ABILITY TO GUIDE THEIR FRIENDS? This was a suspenseful element to gameplay for both sides, which emphasized communication to coordinate group survival.

Now? Everyone knows as long as they have a map. No callout required because it is guaranteed to be seen. Repairing is another story, but the element of dread stemming from uncertainty regarding objectives is gone as long as parts are picked up and dropped.

I think you and I view the gameplay differently. As a counselor, you said that you were discouraged by not being able to find a lost part while one by one, players were dying to a Jason that could have been defeated. To me, this is what made the game dynamic. One error and the outcome of the match could change. Maybe the person with the part just got unlucky and died far off somewhere. Maybe they were in party chat talking to their friends, yet had the best intentions of the group at heart. Maybe they just don't care about you or your suffering. Regardless, the objective was lost and you were forced to make do with the absolutes of your predicament. This could mean finding another objective to control, dare to go searching for the lost part, or set up for a battle Purple Asphyxiation won't forget. There was a sense of hopelessness as a counselor, but that is what made the escapes or survivals fulfilling because of the risk of death.

I said the same thing regarding his grab range: adapt to the current circumstance. I quickly realized that just because it can be done, doesn't mean it should be/have been. Jason needs to be a force to be reckoned with. He needs the possibility of eliminating objectives.

The risk vs. reward scenario keeps us coming back for more. Items showing up on the map needlessly negates the risk and prioritizes reward.

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53 minutes ago, matisangry said:

sure, but the same could be said about your side. how do you know its happening if you can't see it? i base my opinion based on:

1. never really hearing talk of it over mic, where people are quick to point out trolls. 

2. never really witnessing it in spectator mode. 

3. never really seeing it in-game while playing.

i think "hiding objectives"  is the "razor blade in the halloween candy" of friday the 13th. it's more myth than actual problem. that's not to say it NEVER happened because i have seen it very few times, but was it such a huge epidemic that it required such a big change to gameplay? i doubt it. 

it's just too passive a form of trolling for a lot of those idiots. they want to be noticed. it's why they exploit glitches, set traps in high traffic areas like inside windows, run people over with the car... stuff like that. 

 

Exactly this. Apart from a vanishingly small number of times, I've never seen it in game, never seen it in spectator mode, never had anyone report it in-game, or had any of my friends or randomers report it via spectator mode.

Trolls like to upset people. If your troll is so subtle that nobody even realises it's happening, then it isn't a successful troll, and you go back to running people over with the car, or helping Jason out, or putting traps in front of windows, or just blasting shitty music out over your mic.

Everyone knows it to be to something that never really happened, but are using it as a shield so they don't have to admit the real reason they like item marking. That they're bad at the game, and enjoy the infantile power fantasy of beating up Jason Voorhees with little risk, and getting free wins they didn't deserve, but can tell themselves they did.

I still get 8/8s, but I'm an anomoly. I've been playing since day 1, and have played Jason about 300 times. I'm not a salty Jason, but a salty counselor, as now, in 90% of matches I play, Jason only kills 2-3 people. Sometimes 0. I have failed to escape only a handful of times since the patch, and that was largely down to dicking around. If I tried, I'd escape every time virtually. That's the vast majority of people's current experiences playing as Jason. And that isn't anything approaching a balanced or competitive game, or fun for anyone other than people who just suck at the game.

Their success rate has improved, and they like that. But rather than admit it was because the developers lowered the difficult level enourmously, and not that they got better, they have to invent shit about balance, and ignore the fact that Jason can hardly kill anyone anymore.

You can't have a rational conversation with them, because they're completely in denial, and the truth is unflattering to their egos.

We want change, because we want the authentic Friday the 13th experience back. They fear it because it puts their retarded, serial-killer teabagging, dancing, sexy cop simulator at risk.

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Play as Jason was way to easy before. I like how this makes games more challenging. Also, as was mentioned in a previous post, this is a good way to practice Jason's stalk. If you kill someone with a part in a cabin, it will act as a honing beacon for unsuspecting counselors. This brings back the scare factor.

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4 minutes ago, ZooMalfunction said:

Exactly this.

Everyone knows it to be to something that never really happened, but are using it as a shield so they don't have to admit the real reason they like item marking. That they're bad at the game, and enjoy the infantile power fantasy of beating up Jason Voorhees with little effort, and getting free wins they didn't deserve, but can tell themselves they did.

You can't have a rational conversation with them, because they're completely in denial, and the truth is unflattering to their egos.

i don't get how people can insist this happens while telling the people that disagree with them that they can't say it's doesn't happen because they don't see it. 

either people are seeing it or they're speculating and jumping to conclusions. you can't have it both ways.  and again... i don't doubt people have seen this type of a behavior but there's no way it was happening so much that they needed to make such a huge change. 

but just for argument's sake, let's say it was a HUGE issue... the way they implemented it sucks. it just makes it waaaaay too easy to escape and is just as prone or even more prone to abuse. 

if it's intended purpose was to locate hidden parts, why are people grabbing items and then just dropping them right away? I've actually seen this happen a lot in QP. I'll tell you why... because it allows them to give up the item's exact location without even needing a mic or walkie. hell... now they don't even need to take the part to where it needs to go. pick it up, hold it for a few secs, drop it and then grab your weapon again so they can go troll jason while someone else does all the work.  

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28 minutes ago, matisangry said:

i don't get how people can insist this happens while telling the people that disagree with them that they can't say it's doesn't happen because they don't see it.

It's simply because they're arguing in bad faith, and are lying about their reasoning, pretending that their purely selfish motivation (higher personal win rate) is actually an altruistic one (doing it 'for the community').

It gets me angry because their selfishness is killing the game, and I find it insulting to my intelligence that they try to get away with flipping the narrative like this.

If someone just straight up said "I'm not great at the game, and I enjoy it a lot more being a lot easier", I'd say I disagree with the game being geared towards them (and argue they should either try to improve, or accept a lower win rate, or find a different game instead of trying to change an existing one), but completely respect their position and reasoning.

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2 hours ago, Manny1985 said:

That's where we disagree.  Stunning build rage faster, so this helps jason.  I disagree traps are useless.  They still aid me greatly in finding counselors. Also shortening grab distance doesn't make jason weaker.  I still have a blast as jason. Even if I only kill 2 outta 10, this doesn't take away from my enjoyment factor. It makes those 8 outta games more enjoyable. 

 

 

Yeah we definitely disagree. This shit isn't fun anymore. And they need to unfuck it real soon. 

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