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Brevator

Is Item Marking really that big of a deal?

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A lot of people seem happy with the new Item Marking feature that highlights dropped items on the map, but there are a lot of people who seem to be outraged about it, and I really can't understand why. And this is coming from someone who prefers to be Jason. 

It doesn't give counselors any significant advantage, other than knowing where items are, but knowing where the items are in no way guarantees them an escape. They still have to cross the map to retrieve the item and then make it back to the objective in order to use it. Easier said than done.

Item Marking is a great deterrent to trolls who would find items and hide them out in the woods at the edge of the map, as well as inexperienced/non-team players who gather up all the items they can carry and get killed off in the distance where no one can find them. 

I certainly haven't noticed any surges in escape numbers since this implementation. I can still clear a lobby as Jason without altering my strategy, even with the perceived "buff" of Item Marking. 

Not sure why it's getting so much hate. 

 

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I agree. I'd say it is a SLIGHT counselor buff, but not one that makes much of a difference. They still have to find the shit, pick it up then drop it for anyone else to know where it is. I could see why people that only play private matches didn't like it though. Quick play needed it, not so much private.

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1 hour ago, Brevator said:

A lot of people seem happy with the new Item Marking feature that highlights dropped items on the map, but there are a lot of people who seem to be outraged about it, and I really can't understand why. And this is coming from someone who prefers to be Jason. 

It doesn't give counselors any significant advantage, other than knowing where items are, but knowing where the items are in no way guarantees them an escape. They still have to cross the map to retrieve the item and then make it back to the objective in order to use it. Easier said than done.

Item Marking is a great deterrent to trolls who would find items and hide them out in the woods at the edge of the map, as well as inexperienced/non-team players who gather up all the items they can carry and get killed off in the distance where no one can find them. 

I certainly haven't noticed any surges in escape numbers since this implementation. I can still clear a lobby as Jason without altering my strategy, even with the perceived "buff" of Item Marking. 

Not sure why it's getting so much hate. 

 

I don't like it myself, but it doesn't cause me outrage.  I'd prefer if they had toggle options for private matches though.  Public matches aren't really that big of a deal, because let's face it.....is anything gonna actually get done anyway?  But, the part marking just seems like a silly concept to me.  As in, people being chased by a killer have time to mark the map.   For me, it turns the game into arcade mode.  

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11 minutes ago, Maddogg_8121 said:

Public matches aren't really that big of a deal, because let's face it.....is anything gonna actually get done anyway?

Only if I'm there!

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I mostly play Tiffany so it's been really great. I just run all the parts to where they belong, so if people are talking and cooperating I tell them to just pick up and drop the item and I'll run it to where it needs to be. I don't want slow or loud characters at risk of getting spotted by Jason without a weapon.  

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Just now, Truth said:

Only if I'm there!

Hey, I hear ya.  I swear, 90% of the time I'm the only one actually trying to complete an objective.  I can't count the number of times I've found the Tommy house completely looted, doors open, and yet....Tommy hasn't been called?   Wtf?   It takes like 3 seconds.  

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1 minute ago, Maddogg_8121 said:

Hey, I hear ya.  I swear, 90% of the time I'm the only one actually trying to complete an objective.  I can't count the number of times I've found the Tommy house completely looted, doors open, and yet....Tommy hasn't been called?   Wtf?   It takes like 3 seconds.  

I'm usually kind of happy when I see that. More useless xp for me!

Still trying to get that badge though so it does help.

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In practice it doesn't do much unless you are playing against a well coordinated team. I think a toggle option for private matches would be nice.

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1 minute ago, Truth said:

I'm usually kind of happy when I see that. More useless xp for me!

Still trying to get that badge though so it does help.

Sadly, I have the Tommy badge.  Which means I've died early a lot.   The only counselor badge I have left at this point is the kill Jason one. Need four more.  Just can't find people in public to cooperate enough or someone screws it up.  

 

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I don't think it is. I think it's great for quick match. I just want a private match option to turn it off when playing with my beast friends. Only thing I am asking for there.

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1) Item dropping trolls were never an issue. I've played over 1500 matches, and maybe saw it 10 times. It's not immediate enough to give them satisfaction as they don't get to see results firsthand. They'd rather help Jason or run people down. Both are way more common.

It also doesn't even fix those issues. Nothing is preventing you locking them in rooms and leaving via the window, or simply refusing to drop them. It's a nuclear response to a problem that didn't exist, and didn't even fix.

2) There's now no need for chat, which makes walkies and the proximity chat features pointless. Everyone has perfect information at all times. That's two unique and core mechanics undermined. And as a result, I've seen a huge drop in people talking, because nobody needs to anymore.

If you consider the looting and exploring phases end quickly now too - that's three complex mechanics turned into basic shadows of themselves.

3) There's now no need for teamwork. Again, everyone has perfect information, so can act as individuals while the game simulates that element, which massively speeds up the game and reduces it's complexity.

A fundamental horror trope is how the main thing that gets people killed is their inability to work together or get on the same page. This went from simulating that perfectly to completely removing it. And in keeping with the trope, non-communicating, selfish/cowardly counselors are now waaaay more successful, instead of the awesome and flavourful burden they used to be, with no incentive not to be.

4) It's ruined Jason. Jason gets stronger as the game goes on, and is vulnerable to mobbing. As games now get objectives fixed much quicker, and people rush to attack them once they see parts, Jason is on the defensive in every match, and getting the shit kicked out of him.

Games now regularly end with 0-4 kills for Jason instead of the 4-8 they used to. People used to beg to be Jason in lobbies, and quit if they weren't. Now they beg not to be, and quit if they are. For a Friday the 13th game, people hating playing as Jason is a disaster.

5) It ruins the atmosphere. By making Jason a chump, and making it so you have no need to work with others, and are powerful and self-sufficient, there's no fear in the game anymore. He's on the defensive from the start, and spends the entire game playing catchup.

By having every game play out the same, and remove the need to organise, it becomes a game of twitch reflexes rather than adaptability and strategy. It removes the unreliable human element, and all the wonderful chaos and drama that came with that.

It essentially becomes a hugely watered down version of itself. The fear has gone. The complexity has gone. The atmosphere has gone.

It's become an unchallenging repair/dancing/cosplay simulator with an ineffective, lumbring hazard that nobody wants to play as. The only people who like it are bad players who like the power fantasy of free wins and hitting a parody of a vicious killer over and over with a frying pan.

It's completely ruined the game in a huge number of ways. But some people like that, because they don't like difficult or complicated or scary things, so love the spoon-fed pile of baby food the game has become.

It's an absolute disaster of design, and just shows how difficult 'magic formulas' in games are to get right if just one change can unravel so many interconnected systems in one swoop.

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16 minutes ago, Maddogg_8121 said:

Hey, I hear ya.  I swear, 90% of the time I'm the only one actually trying to complete an objective.  I can't count the number of times I've found the Tommy house completely looted, doors open, and yet....Tommy hasn't been called?   Wtf?   It takes like 3 seconds.  

I've encountered lobbies like that, but it's rare. And I'm on PS4, which has a reputation for toxicity. I've found some pretty awesome people.

 

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Just now, Brevator said:

I'm in Quick Play virtually 100% of 

I've encountered lobbies like that, but it's rare. And I'm on PS4, which has a reputation for toxicity. I've found some pretty awesome people.

 

I'm on PS4 as well. Every once in a while I will find a decent lobby, but it is rare.  Here lately most people have no mic which tends to be what @ZooMalfunction is saying.  Since the part marking, you don't really need to communicate.  

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Just now, Maddogg_8121 said:

Sadly, I have the Tommy badge.  Which means I've died early a lot.   The only counselor badge I have left at this point is the kill Jason one. Need four more.  Just can't find people in public to cooperate enough or someone screws it up. 

I don't know if you saw my post about that one. Me and a Vanessa spent literally 10 minutes clicking our flashlights, hitting Tommy with the machete, dropping it in front of him, even trying to block him so he couldn't move to get him to pick it up. Jason was afk in his shack so we were trying to kill him. There was about 30 seconds left when we actually got back to the shack. Tommy was new so I understood but if he had cost me that kill I would've raged.

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Just now, Truth said:

I don't know if you saw my post about that one. Me and a Vanessa spent literally 10 minutes clicking our flashlights, hitting Tommy with the machete, dropping it in front of him, even trying to block him so he couldn't move to get him to pick it up. Jason was afk in his shack so we were trying to kill him. There was about 30 seconds left when we actually got back to the shack. Tommy was new so I understood but if he had cost me that kill I would've raged.

That sucks.  I had a public lobby that was trying to kill Jason.  We got the mask, the sweater, and Tommy.  I activated the sweater.  Then while a Bugsy with a bat was standing right behind Jason, an AJ runs up out of nowhere with a wrench, hits Jason, and.....nothing happens....  Our chance was ruined.  He came out of the stun without dropping to his knees. 

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1 minute ago, Maddogg_8121 said:

That sucks.  I had a public lobby that was trying to kill Jason.  We got the mask, the sweater, and Tommy.  I activated the sweater.  Then while a Bugsy with a bat was standing right behind Jason, an AJ runs up out of nowhere with a wrench, hits Jason, and.....nothing happens....  Our chance was ruined.  He came out of the stun without dropping to his knees. 

I had that too but it was Tiffany (i think) with a frying pan...

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28 minutes ago, ZooMalfunction said:

1) Item dropping trolls were never an issue. I've played over 1500 matches, and maybe saw it 10 times. It's not immediate enough to give them satisfaction as they don't get to see results firsthand. They'd rather help Jason or run people down. Both are way more common.

2) There's now no need for chat, which makes walkies and the proximity chat features pointless. Everyone has perfect information at all times. That's two unique and core mechanics undermined. And as a result, I've seen a huge drop in people talking, because nobody needs to anymore.

If you consider the looting and exploring phases end quickly now too - that's three complex mechanics turned into basic shadows of themselves.

3) There's now no need for teamwork. Again, everyone has perfect information, so can act as individuals while the game simulates that element, which massively speeds up the game and reduces it's complexity.

A fundamental horror trope is how the main thing that gets people killed is their inability to work together or get on the same page. This went from simulating that perfectly to completely removing it. And in keeping with the trope, non-communicating, selfish/cowardly counselors are now waaaay more successful, instead of the awesome and flavourful burden they used to be, with no incentive not to be.

4) It's ruined Jason. Jason gets stronger as the game goes on, and is vulnerable to mobbing. As games now get objectives fixed much quicker, and people rush to attack them once they see parts, Jason is on the defensive in every match, and getting the shit kicked out of him.

Games now regularly end with 0-4 kills for Jason instead of the 4-8 they used to. People used to beg to be Jason in lobbies, and quit if they weren't. Now they beg not to be, and quit if they are. For a Friday the 13th game, people hating playing as Jason is a disaster.

5) It ruins the atmosphere. By making Jason a chump, and making it so you have no need to work with others, and are powerful and self-sufficient, there's no fear in the game anymore. He's on the defensive from the start, and spends the entire game playing catchup.

By having every game play out the same, and remove the need to organise, it becomes a game of twitch reflexes rather than adaptability and strategy. It removes the unreliable human element, and all the wonderful chaos and drama that came with that.

It essentially becomes a hugely watered down version of itself. The fear has gone. The complexity has gone. The atmosphere has gone.

It's become an unchallenging repair/dancing/cosplay simulator with an ineffective, lumbring hazard that nobody wants to play as. The only people who like it are bad players who like the power fantasy of free wins and hitting a parody of a vicious killer over and over with a frying pan.

It's completely ruined the game in a huge number of ways. But some people like that, because they don't like difficult or complicated or scary things, so love the spoon-fed pile of baby food the game has become.

It's an absolute disaster of design, and just shows how difficult 'magic formulas' in games are to get right if just one change can unravel so many interconnected systems in one swoop.

I cannot reconcile what I experience versus what you are feeling.  

1)  I have seen it, as well as the people crossing or wandering the wilds in matches and get killed and everyone spends rest of the match waiting to die still searching cabins to find a needed item.  Prior to this patch total counselor party kill seemed to be the normal.  Can they do it differently?  Sure.  But wandering around for 10 minutes with no hope is not an ideal player experience because someone dropped (voluntarily or involuntarily) an item in the middle of the woods never to be seen again. 

2)  I am not seeing a difference in either the "looting" or "exploring" phases.  I hear people ask for where things are (anyone seen X, which house is phone house, etc).  

3)  Teamwork still happens and yes self centered people still act self centered.  Not a big change.  Maybe minor one. 

4)  Keyword "Ruined"  Not degraded.  Not modified.  Ruined.  That says it all about your viewpoint.  How dare counselors survive and how dare it not be an exercise in killing them.  Instead of seeing that its 8 people playing a game and the seven aren't there just to be fodder for someone's needing superiority.  I am still seeing routinely 6-8.  With a bad Jason yes the escapes go way up but I am still seeing and doing most/all counselors dead per match. 

5)  This is extrapolating from your previous point.  Once again, anyone who disagrees with you is... "like the power fantasy of free wins.. don't like difficult things, so love spoon fed pile of baby food".  I'm sorry but the feedback poll on the forum stickied/pinned seems to disagree with you unless you claim close to 50% of the forum visitors are crybabies who want free wins.  Though I'd say many of the people screaming loudest are those, I suspect, who feel entitled to 8/8 kills when Jason just because that what they feel should happen every time. 

I sincerely hope they publish some averages.  Average number of Jason kills (say for level 30+ jasons).  Average number of escapees (same parameter). 

BTW - I've always preferred playing counselors as a) more cat and mouse  b - they are the underdogs

 

 

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You're conflating people dying in the wilds with people purposely dropping stuff.

The former happened often, and was a legitimate punishment for counselors caught out. The latter almost never happened, and is more the excuse people are using to justify the change.

If a part is lost, there's still the chance to risk looking for it, and there's still other escape options to fight among yourself over. It wasn't a game over by any means. It just meant you had to adapt.

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The main problem I have with it is that it makes it far too easy to fix objectives. Prior to the patch, you had to first find a radio, an objective item and then co-ordinate with your teammates as to what it is/where you're taking it/where the phone box is if you have the fuse.

Now you don't need any of that, now you just need a map and eyeballs. 

Imo, it takes all the tension and teamwork out of the game and just spoon-feeds you the objectives. 

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Yeah, I'm sorry, but I can't really relate to your experience either, @ZooMalfunction.

I still prefer being Jason after this patch and have never once felt like I was on the defensive, much less from the start. I still see teams coordinating with each other and working together to complete objectives. And I'm still able to control those objectives, even while maining Part 4 with his minimal trap count, and still manage to rack up 7s and 8s virtually every Jason round I get, even against coordinated teams with their new-found knowledge of item location. I had one Kenny escape in the boat on Higgins Haven about an hour ago, and that's only because I was distracted and he got lucky. 

I honestly can't see the huge change that has made people "hate being Jason" now. I can no longer grab counselors as easily, but I'm adapting to it. 

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I like it. I do it to help others out or to mark it for myself later on. I like this patch, those that don't well.. I guess sorry to them. :(

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Overall I like it. 

As Jason it hasn't really effected my game in a negative way. Now when I kill a counsellor with the fuse, or car part. I just camp the part in stalk mode, and sure enough People are now drawn to that part. It's like a big red X on the map and their just going to their demise, so I don't understand how a lot of Jason players don't see the benefit in this new feature?

If you're Jason and you see a part get dropped. Keep an eye on it!, if you notice the gas and battery beside the car. Maybe you should camp near by in Stalk mode, and just wait for Deborah or AJ to come out of their hiding spots.

As a counsellor. I've had many matches with trolls hiding parts, or someone dies in the far outskirts of the map with a key item, and having to spend 15 minutes searching for a part, and to never find it, while entire lobbies are slowly being asphyxiated one by one by Purple Jason who never even put one trap on the phone box! when you should of escaped 15 minutes ago! Now that's frustrating.

I also haven't noticed a decrease in communication, some people think this update encourages less communication over the mic, maybe it does, but if your not communicating you may spend 5 minutes searching for the fuse or propellor while AJ already has those items and is running around in circles. So communicating is still important, as items only show up when dropped, not when their picked up.

 

 

 

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if its gonna be in the game put on small map only

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3 hours ago, Brevator said:

A lot of people seem happy with the new Item Marking feature that highlights dropped items on the map, but there are a lot of people who seem to be outraged about it, and I really can't understand why. And this is coming from someone who prefers to be Jason. 

It doesn't give counselors any significant advantage, other than knowing where items are, but knowing where the items are in no way guarantees them an escape. They still have to cross the map to retrieve the item and then make it back to the objective in order to use it. Easier said than done.

Item Marking is a great deterrent to trolls who would find items and hide them out in the woods at the edge of the map, as well as inexperienced/non-team players who gather up all the items they can carry and get killed off in the distance where no one can find them. 

I certainly haven't noticed any surges in escape numbers since this implementation. I can still clear a lobby as Jason without altering my strategy, even with the perceived "buff" of Item Marking. 

Not sure why it's getting so much hate. 

 

The item marking wouldn't even be an issue if it had not been introduced along with a pair of Jason nerfs that rendered him largely ineffective against good players coordinating with microphones. In fact if this had been implemented without the nerfs it would have been well received in my opinion. 

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Depends on who you ask.  For me,  not at all.  I still have games where I get 8 out of 8 just like I have game where I only get 2 outta 8.

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