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This is the definition of a get good thread. If you couldn't kill someone running around you in circles (predict their next move, slash, change direction, use shift, teleport, grab where they are about to step not where they are, etc) than you just aren't using all of the abilities and strategies available to you. Yes, Jason needs a buff, but you have to look at yourself as a player too. 

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4 hours ago, WashingtonJones said:

Most people would consider that boring and a deflation of what makes this game its own. Anyone who replies to this with "go play DBD then" has a point.

So, killing counselor with just a grab is better? Why not give them a chance to fight back before they get killed? That's unfair! I can agree Jason needs to be dangerous against groups of counselors, but against them alone, he's already a monster!

By slashing and grabbing, they can give a good chase and you can rise their fear quickly.

It was way too simple and easy to kill them before. Now it only requires some more skill and patience (especially against Vanessas). And if want quick kills, use Stalk.

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6 minutes ago, CPLhicks31 said:

This is the definition of a get good thread. If you couldn't kill someone running around you in circles (predict their next move, slash, change direction, use shift, teleport, grab where they are about to step not where they are, etc) than you just aren't using all of the abilities and strategies available to you. Yes, Jason needs a buff, but you have to look at yourself as a player too. 

You just said it “ Jason needs a buff .”

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1 minute ago, OCT 31 1978 said:

You just said it “ Jason needs a buff .”

And he needs it. But you cannot just blame the game (or the patch) for everything bad that happens when you play as Jason. Sometimes, it's YOUR fault for not using all of Jason's abilities, not the game's one.

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19 minutes ago, OCT 31 1978 said:

You just said it “ Jason needs a buff .”

Yes, but only a minor one. A player failing to kill a limping counsellor right next to them after several tries has nothing to do with Jason needing a buff and everything to do with that player getting better.

Just because Jason needs a slight buff (i agree he does) does not mean that every post or thread started by someone who is a terrible Jason is justified. Make Jason better, yes, but if someone is really struggling that much they also need to get better.

It's one thing to say Jason needs some work (true), it's another to say that he is a jokejokejoke just because a player is a struggling. People who say, it's easy to be jason get good get 8/8 bro are wrong, too. But so are people who say, Jason sucks can't kill anyone 0/8 agaisnt limping counsellors. Actual unbiased subjective reasoning says the truth is in the middle. 

NoOneK9503 could not have said it better.

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On 11/5/2017 at 4:06 PM, NoOneK9503 said:

So, killing counselor with just a grab is better? Why not give them a chance to fight back before they get killed? That's unfair! I can agree Jason needs to be dangerous against groups of counselors, but against them alone, he's already a monster!

By slashing and grabbing, they can give a good chase and you can rise their fear quickly.

It was way too simple and easy to kill them before. Now it only requires some more skill and patience (especially against Vanessas). And if want quick kills, use Stalk.

Yes killing with a grab is better ! What was the point of all the hours of motion capture kills for the game to not perform them!

And since this is a “ get good” thread the same could be said about counselors avoiding Jason’s grab pre patch... get good! Instead of going for a attack on Jason avoid him by going from cabin to cabin. Get some back up have them hit Jason from behind to buy time to get way!

becuse it’s definitely not “ fair “ that Jason is getting his ass handed to him most matches now becuse he can’t grab for shit or hit a counselors he locks onto in combat stance either....

And if you want to talk about it being to easy to kill them before... escaping is much easier now and literally take no skill, Since all items are now presented to you in some sort of easy mode that didn’t exist per patch.

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14 minutes ago, OCT 31 1978 said:

 

and since this is a “ get good” thread the same could be said about counselors avoiding Jason’s grab pre patch... get good! Instead of going for a attack on Jason avoid him by going from cabin to cabin. Get some back up have them hit Jason from behind to by time to get way!

 

No, it can't, because his grab range was even more unpredictable then than it is now, and it was unrealistic making whether or not you were grabbed more about luck than strategy. His grab is better now, but Jason overall is worse (I agree he needs another buff to counteract reducing his grab range). 

 

I am actually in full agreement that Jason needs a buff because he is too weak right now! However, that does not mean he needs his grab back, and that most certainly does not mean people can just blame the game or patch for their own shortcomings.

It's fair to make an argument for Jason to be buffed, but not every argument on that subject is a good one.

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19 minutes ago, NoOneK9503 said:

So, killing counselor with just a grab is better? Why not give them a chance to fight back before they get killed? That's unfair! I can agree Jason needs to be dangerous against groups of counselors, but against them alone, he's already a monster!

By slashing and grabbing, they can give a good chase and you can rise their fear quickly.

It was way too simple and easy to kill them before. Now it only requires some more skill and patience (especially against Vanessas). And if want quick kills, use Stalk.

I do think Jason being able to insta kill is better than having the weak neutered killers of DbD. He is still more of a threat than the killers in that game.

While good players can still troll Jason somewhat, it's still a bad idea to try against a good Jason. All the people I've played with that were really good Jasons are still wiping lobbies consistently.

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2 minutes ago, OCT 31 1978 said:

Yes killing with a grab is better ! What was the point of all the hours of motion capture kills for the game to not perform them !

and since this is a “ get good” thread the same could be said about counselors avoiding Jason’s grab pre patch... get good! Instead of going for a attack on Jason avoid him by going from cabin to cabin. Get some back up have them hit Jason from behind to by time to get way!

becuse it’s definitely not “ fair “ that Jason is getting his ass handed to him most matches now becuse he can’t grab for shit or hit a counselors he locks onto in combat stance either 

and if you want to talk about it being to easy to kill them before... escaping is much easier now and literally take no skill, Since it all items are now presented to you in some sort of easy mode that didn’t exist per patch.

First, I agree with the items showing up in the map. That's bullshit. The game is about teamwork. And this does not help.

Second, nope. Appearing and grabbing them as your first move is simple, does not give a challenge for Jason and is unfair for the counselor players. There needs to be a final struggle before each ome of them is killed. And this is represented by crippling them with your weapon and grabbing them. You don't need to hack them to death.

Jason needs a weapon buff, so he can finally hack groups that wants to stun him over and over again.

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The grab cone is actually a bit off. you can miss someone standing face to face with nearly touching noses now and still miss sometimes. That is a bit too much imo. Only a bit tough.

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On 11/5/2017 at 4:13 PM, NoOneK9503 said:

And he needs it. But you cannot just blame the game (or the patch) for everything bad that happens when you play as Jason. Sometimes, it's YOUR fault for not using all of Jason's abilities, not the game's one.

Any counselor who can out play... repair / juke/ multiple stun Jason /  deserves to escape. the problem I am wanting addressed are the perks that encourage campers to openly engage Jason with out fear because most of Jason’s ability especially the most powerful ones have been or always have been problematic....
the melee attack is useless indoors and hits everything but the counselors even in combat stance, the grab nerf that didn’t need changed except for one single step forward with his animation just like he does when he misses would put him in a closer proximity to the counselor and would no longer look like a force grab.

in closing if I am legitimately playing bad whether as Jason or counselor I would agree that it would be a case of getting better! But the issues I am running into and seeing are groups that make Jason look like a bumbling idiot unable to grab! or slash! It’s become very stressful and in no way fun as it should be.

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On 11/5/2017 at 4:30 PM, DEATH said:

I do think Jason being able to insta kill is better than having the weak neutered killers of DbD. He is still more of a threat than the killers in that game.

While good players can still troll Jason somewhat, it's still a bad idea to try against a good Jason. All the people I've played with that were really good Jasons are still wiping lobbies consistently.

Maybe against noobs, but all the players I play against are 90 to 101 and are struggling with the grab nerf....

add in the new perks and it becomes very one sided.

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26 minutes ago, OCT 31 1978 said:

Any counselor who can out play... repair / juke/ multiple stun Jason /  deserves to escape. the problem I am wanting addressed are the perks that encourage campers to openly engage Jason with out fear because most  of Jason’s ability especially the most powerful ones have been or always been problematic the melee attack is useless indoors and hits everything but the counselors even in combat stance, the grab nerf that didn’t need changed except for on single step forward with his animation just like he does when he misses would put him in a closer proximity to the counselor and would no longer look like a force grab.

in closing if I am legitimately playing bad whether a Jason or counselor I would agree that it would be a case of getting better! But the issues I am running into and seeing are groups that make Jason look like a bumbling idiot in able to grab! or slash! It’s become very stressful and in no way fun as it should be.

I hear you, and for what it's worth I have a lot of respect for your post i just quoted. My posts in this thread are specifically about the complaint of a single counsellor limping around Jason while Jason is unable (or not good enough) to get a kill. That was a gross overstatement.

I am 101 and struggled with the grab nerf for a short-time because it always takes some time adjusting to a change, but I have been able to actually improve as Jason post-patch by relying less on my grab and more on Jason's other abilities, including my own psyche to out-strategize counsellors. Doesn't mean I don't have a bad game now and then though. If I just kept trying to rely on vacuum grab and failing, i'd be really frustrated, but there is so much more to being Jason. 

What I am getting at is that we are collectively acting like the community needs to be divided about Jason, imagining this huge chasm between players who seem to want Jason to suck and players who seem to want counsellors to have no chance to escape. Niether of these extremes are healthy for the community. We need to be able to discuss the issue without theatrics and massive over exaggerations. The truth is, Jason isn't a broken joke, but he absolutely does need work.  Players who are really struggling need to work at it (and work with the gameplay)  to get better, but they also deserve a buff to Jason. I hope both of these things can happen!

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8 minutes ago, NoOneK9503 said:

First, I agree with the items showing up in the map. That's bullshit. The game is about teamwork. And this does not help.

Second, nope. Appearing and grabbing them as your first move is simple, does not give a challenge for Jason and is unfair for the counselor players. There needs to be a final struggle before each ome of them is killed. And this is represented by crippling them with your weapon and grabbing them. You don't need to hack them to death.

Jason needs a weapon buff, so he can finally hack groups that wants to stun him over and over again.

If crippling them with the weapon was actually feasible at this point sure, but melee attacks have never been accurate since launch, that’s why grab was more reliable, and right now the grab is more unpredictable then before the cone is skewed to the wrong side making it difficult to grab juking counselors even standing on top of them... how is that better than before!  yes his reach was deadly before but because it never looked like a completed animation he would grab and slide back to the location he was standing, instead of taking a step forward like he does when he whiffs a grab now !!

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1 minute ago, OCT 31 1978 said:

If crippling them with the weapon was actually feasible at this point sure, but melee attacks have never been accurate since launch, that’s why grab was more reliable, and right now the grab is more unpredictable then before the cone is skewed to the wrong side making it difficult to grab juking counselors even standing on top of them... how is that better than before!  yes his reach was deadly before but because it never looked like a completed animation he would grab and slide back to the location he was standing, instead of taking a step forward like he does when he whiffs a grab now !!

Oh! I forgot it! His grab range needs to be wider (not longer) too!

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3 minutes ago, CPLhicks31 said:

I hear you, and for what it's worth I have a lot of respect for your post i just quoted. My posts in this thread are specifically about the complaint of a single counsellor limping around Jason while Jason is unable (or not good enough) to get a kill. That was a gross overstatement.

What I am getting at is that we are collectively acting like the community needs to be divided about Jason, imagining this huge chasm between players who seem to want Jason to suck and players who seem to want counsellors to have no chance to escape. Niether of these extremes are healthy for the community. We need to be able to discuss the issue without theatrics and massive over exaggerations. The truth is, Jason isn't completely broken" joke, but he absolutely does need work.  Players who are really struggling need to work at it (and work with the gameplay)  to get better, but they also deserve a buff to Jason. I hope both of these things can happen!

I agree 100% 

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...and it came to pass that a legendary patch was released and the kingdom was once again united. Living in peace and harmony...until the next patch. :lol:

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1 minute ago, GhostWolfViking said:

...and it came to pass that a legendary patch was released and the kingdom was once again united. Living in peace and harmony...until the next patch. :lol:

sad but true: i somehow don´t wont another patch. each patch used to bring up new troubles of some sort. like the EU server disaster for PC this time. I am scared of what could go wrong in the next patch.

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On 11/5/2017 at 4:52 PM, CPLhicks31 said:

*Nods head and shakes your hand*

 

Lol!

 I think all the members on this community can agree all we want is the best f13 game we can get,  and it’s here now in our hands..it’s one of the best and most fun games I have ever owned and We as a community are some of the most passionate I have ever seen, I also hope the game play balance issues can be tweaked because both side should be having fun! Jason doing his thing as well as counselors dodging axes swing at their heads! 

 

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4 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

@WashingtonJones stacking beartraps on top of each other is just stupid. that had to go. not because of multitrap but because it is impossible. That´s what i was refering to. Has nothing to do with unwritten rules or new people. 

go on and multitrap. i like jasons doing that when i am counselor.

I don't multi-trap beyond 2 traps, and half the time it's 1 per objective point. I think it's stupid too. But if someone wants to do it like that, let them. The trap nerf hasn't effected me at all, but I'd rather it be reverted. 

You also have to remember, unless you play with the same people over and over again, you learn that a variety of different playing styles need to be compensated for. You might understand how to deal with multi-trapping, but the odds are most other people won't, and they'll fall into my.....well, trap(s). And whether I multi-trap or not, I'd still have your head rolling around the map so...

2 hours ago, Dr. Lecter said:

I ran four games as Jason yesterday, and the only time I didn't go 7/7 or 8/8 was the one guy who quit on me as I was chopping him to death at a window. I'm ok with being called boring :)

As I said upstairs, you should be able to play however you want. Your style is just not fun. For me, it wouldn't be fun to play or watch and I would hope to keep the likes of your style in the very minority.  It would have been better for you to say "Hey, this is what I do to make it easy for me", instead of passing it off as a solution. You like games, and this is just another game to you. That mentality flattens the depth of what this game offers.

....I find Jason being at his most helpless -- just waiting to get knifed in the neck or stunned while unable to swing -- boring and a deflation of what it's supposed to mean to be Jason. Besides, I've already seen all the low-gore, no-detail kills the game offers. 

Grabbing puts counselors in the strongest position .... I see no reason to make Jason jump though those hoops when he can just KILL like he's supposed to.

I don't think you're a fan of the movies. It doesn't sound like that to me, at all. This is just another survival horror game for you. The elaborate kills are one of the main sections of the foundation of the whole franchise. 

I don't mind sacrificing an escape or 2 to play something out that feels more like the movie than going through the motions of a game. 8/8 is great in the beginning, but if that was that's all I was concerned with, I probably would have stopped playing this game a while ago out of boredom. 

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Oh you are one of those i kill every lobby guys? well nope. There are counselors out there that will survive you. More than once. and seriously, i think stacking traps to the point where you can´t even tell if it is one, two or three laying on top of each other is a bit lame.

we should rather get a better weapon range instead of getting stacked traps back. and a bit more of the grab cone. really just a little bit.

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7 minutes ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

Oh you are one of those i kill every lobby guys? well nope. There are counselors out there that will survive you. More than once. and seriously, i think stacking traps to the point where you can´t even tell if it is one, two or three laying on top of each other is a bit lame.

we should rather get a better weapon range instead of getting stacked traps back. and a bit more of the grab cone. really just a little bit.

I think most players  don’t care about trap stacking! ( I know I never used it or the guys I play with.)

and I agree better weapon range and more grab cone is a must!

 

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1 hour ago, NoOneK9503 said:

So, killing counselor with just a grab is better? Why not give them a chance to fight back before they get killed? That's unfair! I can agree Jason needs to be dangerous against groups of counselors, but against them alone, he's already a monster!

By slashing and grabbing, they can give a good chase and you can rise their fear quickly.

It was way too simple and easy to kill them before. Now it only requires some more skill and patience (especially against Vanessas). And if want quick kills, use Stalk.

They do have a chance, there are pocket knifes, they have perks to help get out of the grab, also if you have a good team Jason not going to kill you with a grab..

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If the argument is that Jason SHOULD have a huge advantage over counselors because reasons, then would Jason deserve to have his XP rewards reduced, since he's handed a lot of his kills as a given? 

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