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We need the new update. We need it quick.

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2 minutes ago, CPLhicks31 said:

Sorry for the double post, but I just have to say...

 

if players escape "without problem" against you then you should simply do a better job. I hate saying get good, but yeah.

Jason has shift, it's faster than any counsellor can run, even Vanessa. Yes, it cools down but you can predict the counsellors movements and sitll use shift to get close enough for a grab, slash, or even a stalk ahead of them. Plus, y'know.... throwing knives.

Chain stun you with a bat? The bat was just weakened. Use shift or morph to get away then come at them from another angle and scare the crap out of them. Not too difficult, especially if you have rage.

yes all 7 counsellors might collectively be more powerful than Jason, but counsellors still die far more easily. If you have a group of counsellors on you then strategize to split them up or focus on one at a time and they will fall.

Jason does need to be stronger but if it's this bad to you then you need more practice as Jason. Sometimes I think it's his controls that are the issue, not how powerful he is.

I never said i'm good as Jason and yes many mistakes are my fault  but i'm not the only one who complains about this issue.
Yes chain stun is an issue for me and i find honestly stupid being stunned no matter what when you're hit. I have to "git gud" ? Yes of course i do, i'd also would love to play Jason more often to learn how to play it better but this is not possible. Still i report what issue, from my point of view and with not su much experience, i've found so far. And trust me, if i play a counsellor i'm albe to escape 90% times without issue so, if a let's say mediocre player, is able to flee so often, i do wonder what a good player may do

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On 11/1/2017 at 0:04 PM, Punisher_2099 said:

The grab stinks now. I was right next to a counselor and kept grabbing as they ran circles around me. It was annoying. :(

Yeah, its like trying to grab ghosts most of the time.

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15 hours ago, Mr. Blonde said:


The balance before this patch was pretty close to each other but still slightly tipped in the counselor's favor. Now the scale is most definitely pushed into the counselor's side and heavily in their favor because of you whiners for the past 6+ months. Jason most certainly didn't 8/8 all the time before unless you had a terrible team of newb counselors and were playing with randoms in QP. I had no problems surviving against pre patch Jason with my buddies before the patch.

You counselor players talk about how it's so unfair that Jason could triple trap stack, but don't mention how unfair it currently is that:
- Jason can't place traps inside cabins or boat docks.
- Jason traps can just be tanked by a person and then heal up instantly to make them useless.
- Jason traps have terrible color distinguishing from a trap that is set and a trap that went off on the map.

You counselor players also love to talk about how broken Jason's pre patch grab was but ignore his melee weapon when it comes to:
- Terrible hit detections
- Awful range and not more than the grab
- No chance to stun or make counselors stumble on hit

 

You also all cried your eyes out when Thick Skinned got the nerf it deserved for months, and still are hoarding one very broken perk which is double healing Medspray which needs to not be a thing anymore.

If you REALLY believe that this patch was better for the game, then you are a moron that has absolutely no clue on how game balance works. Instead of you greedy counselor players helping with us to push for Jason buffs in his terribly weak areas (and completely useless versions like Part 7), you rather fight against us and say "THE PATCH IS FINE, JUST ADAPT! BEST PATCH YET!".

No. You may have won the battle with your powerful crying aging from day one until this very patch. But you're not going to win the war. Jason will be fixed and he will dominate all you counselors that love to search in QP and complain about how "OP" Jason is when you have some players on the team with no mic, low leveled newbs, lone wolves, and overall terrible coordination. You randoms failing to efficiently work together as the counselors was always the biggest issue of the game, not the game balance itself.

 

Balance is a pendulum.  You make tweaks that have expected, and unexpected effects.  Ergo:  Law of unintended consequences. 

I respectfully disagree with your statement of pre-current-patch that you escaped "with no problems" pre-patch.  My experience was I was routinely killing everyone or part of everyone getting slaughtered with occasional exceptions.   But let's take your and my anecdotal arguments away from the equation and see what the other issues that were big in August and September (pre-patch).

The biggest issue everyone screamed about was the fact that players were quitting mid-kill denying Jason the points.  OK.  Taking away ridiculous argument (they're ALL of X attitude or opinion), it was happening more and more.  As well as the occurrence of Jason only players (who only want to play the favored side) quitting right at the start as soon as they see who Jason is.  Now, do those issues that were occurring favor your argument that playing a counselor was too easy pre-patch or mine that total wipeouts were the norm. 

I trust the developers to review their game's data and make decisions based upon how games are going.  The averages, what is happening and when, and try to ascertain why. I trust their judgment that they don't make blind guesses but utilize data more than I trust your anecdotal evidence, or mine for that fact. 

Like it or not player populations were dropping.  Fact - just look at steam numbers over time.  Fact - player quitting and malaise were occurring more and more.  Fact - It was quite the norm to get a player dropping out because they weren't Jason.  I.E.  The balance was off for a multi-player game where 90% of the time you're supposed to play the one side.   

Your entire argument makes assumption over crying about this perk or everyone uses that perk.  I cried about no perk.  I don't use the medic perk.  With my style I try and do different things. 

I do not think YOU understand game balance at all.  The game has to be balanced for the most often play style.  Which is random folks in quick play.  Like it or not that's the way it works.  You can't tweak your product for 10% of your consumer base.  You tweak the product so the majority of gameplay and modes.  

"Jason will be fixed and he will dominate all you counselors "   I suspect this gives away your entire motivation.  Playing the superior side and lording it over the other side whom you dominate.  Your words.  For game balance and basic physiological reinforcement, on average, 1.66 (or so) people should escape - on average mind you.  Sometimes zero.  Sometimes 3-4 (so your average gets to the over one figure).  Why?  If your average is less than zero that means you go in expecting to lose and having little chance of winning in a game where you are supposed to play the counselors side around 80-90% of the time. 

Are there things that need tweaking?  Yes indeed.  Am I sorry that many people feel every game needs to be an 8/8 slaughter fest and how dare people escape?  NOPE.  Unrealistic expectation by many that the game should, on average, be a total party kill every time. 

Sure, I hope they fix windows and doors where they can hit Jason, but Jason can't hit them.  Sure the grab really up close hit detection needs work.  It's a pendulum.  Constantly going back and forth.  I personally would favor body markers and not item markers. (or mini-map markers) but likely mini-map marker only is far harder to do as mini-map is tied to main map. 

In the games I played last night no one lived.  Period.  When I was Jason and as a counselor.  Anecdotal - sure!  But, I'm sure the developers aren't going by anecdotal evidence when making decisions.   As too many factors go into what happens in a specific game or small subset of games to make a broader declaration.  The only people who can see the big picture are those with access to the big picture data.  The Devs.   

Blonde responded below in a huge spiel about casuals and other games that are multi-player so instead of quoting him again I decided but amend:

"To cater to those group of players and mass casuals"  Step right up folks - if you play quick play yur one of them there mass casuals!

"you make easier separate modes, or different game modes that do not affect the actual meat, potatoes, and bulk of the game"  You do realize we have one game mode now, with 7 different maps.  Only difference is public versus private.  Same game. 

"Because the developers cater to how good the game is at a higher level once the player gets GOOD and reaches that level through more experience in the game."   I never said you don't balance on level or have that as a factor.  You did to create a straw man. 

"it would still completely drop and die quickly with your patch practice of "appeasing" the temporary casuals and ignoring the hardcore fan base that lives and breathes hours into your game"  Yep, wanting the only mode we have to have some logical balance is catering to those horrible casual type people we keep to ignore. 

Do you know why games like DotA, Leage of Legends, Counter Strike, etc. etc. are the most POPULAR and SUCCESSFUL multiplayer games for the past decade straight?"  You do realize saying because they are multi-player games that have completely different base structures so we must behave like them is like me saying Mario-kart should be a good benchmark because it is a multi-player game. 

Edited by va_ghost
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31 minutes ago, va_ghost said:

I do not think YOU understand game balance at all.  The game has to be balanced for the most often play style.  Which is random folks in quick play.  Like it or not that's the way it works.  You can't tweak your product for 10% of your consumer base.  You tweak the product so the majority of gameplay and modes.  

You literally have no clue how game longevity and player base building works. You can NEVER balance a game towards a random group of players in QP. To cater to those group of players and mass casuals, you make easier separate modes, or different game modes that do not affect the actual meat, potatoes, and bulk of the game. Also you can NEVER keep the casual player base no matter how much you try. Casual players come and go, they inevitably move on to the next shiny toy and new game and leave old games in the dust. This is why trying to balance a game mainly for casuals is a complete fail and causes games to completely die in a year due to the masses of casuals moving on. And then what? Oh, you're stuck with all those loyal and hardcore players that play your game everyday for years but then end up leaving one by one as well because the game is shallow, no actual legit improvements have been made for experienced players that invest their time into it, and there's better games in the competition being made that cater to pure gameplay and satisfying people who want to invest their time into a very rewarding and deep experience.

Do you know why games like DotA, Leage of Legends, Counter Strike, etc. etc. are the most POPULAR and SUCCESSFUL multiplayer games for the past decade straight? Because the developers cater to how good the game is at a higher level once the player gets GOOD and reaches that level through more experience in the game. Those games are ALL balanced through what is powerful or weak at HIGHER LEVELS, they do NOT balance on random pubs matches that have too many variables that can NEVER be properly balanced. They also all have easier & more casual friendly modes to appease to those newer players that try the game and give it a go. So unless you plan to convince Gunmedia to take the constant production route, where they pump a new game every year or two like how some huge game production titles are successful through (Super Mario, Call of Duty, etc.) to keep the casuals coming back, you are literally going to regret this in a couple of years when there's not much casuals left playing because they all moved on to new games and all the hardcore players have moved on to bigger and better video games worth their time.

And good thing you're not a developer, because even if your game did end up selling well, it would still completely drop and die quickly with your patch practice of "appeasing" the temporary casuals and ignoring the hardcore fan base that lives and breathes hours into your game.

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3 minutes ago, Mr. Blonde said:

 

Do you know why games like DotA, Leage of Legends, Counter Strike, etc. etc. are the most POPULAR and SUCCESSFUL multiplayer games for the past decade straight?

Money. The most popular game on steam right now is a RNG battle royale. Why? Money.

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I don't think player numbers were dropping because the game was too difficult. I think the reason that the numbers were dropping was because of a lack of content. We had Three maps and 6 or 7 Jasons for a long time. Casuals have short attention spans.

Also, look at Warframe. They lost a significant amount of players once the 1st Destiny came out, but they remained true to their core base. Look at them now. Their numbers have TRIPLED (or more) since then.

The game was fine as it was. No game devs should change their game in favor of any current trend, especially if it is successful and you have a dedicated base like this game has. Casuals come and go; it is what it is.

A player base doesn't sustain itself. It is earned. 

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Correct. I don't think the player base died cause the game is too difficult, I think it died because of the repetitiveness and the horrible connection issues. Very few people on my friends list even play anymore. My brother and other friends in real life quit cause they couldn't complete a game.

Yes this new generation of millennials is all about instant gratification. They don't want to work at the game to learn it and get better. Some of them may have bailed but I don't think it's the reason for the drastic drop off. You can only open so many drawers, deal with so many trolls and see so many connection timed out screens before enough is enough.

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3 hours ago, Blinckx said:

I never said i'm good as Jason and yes many mistakes are my fault  but i'm not the only one who complains about this issue.
Yes chain stun is an issue for me and i find honestly stupid being stunned no matter what when you're hit. I have to "git gud" ? Yes of course i do, i'd also would love to play Jason more often to learn how to play it better but this is not possible. Still i report what issue, from my point of view and with not su much experience, i've found so far. And trust me, if i play a counsellor i'm albe to escape 90% times without issue so, if a let's say mediocre player, is able to flee so often, i do wonder what a good player may do

Something that does bother me with Jason is that he has a very steep learning curve, especially for the casual player. For those who don't play on a regular basis it is easier to pick up the controller and play as a counsellor not Jason, which is a bit of a problem.

I appreciate this post and perspective, and i hope you get the practice you need for Jason play to be less of a concern.

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@wes, @[IllFonic]Courier, @Gertz, @GunMedia_Ben

So how difficult would it be to introduce some options in the game lobbies? Why does everybody need to play with these ridiculous item markers appearing on the map? My friends and I stopped playing this game because every match is the exact same now. Low-repair counselors pick up and drop items on map to enable map markers, everyone flocks to the phone fuse/box, Jason shows up and looks ridiculous trying to grab the dancing counselors and getting chain stunned while A.J. disables the trap, installs the fuse and calls the police.  The police were called every match, the car was repaired every match, I escaped every match. You guys have made a once-great game boring as hell.

Before this patch, I can’t think of one time where people would intentionally drop things in the woods. When people would get killed in the woods with items, that made things feel hopeless for you as the last counselor alive. I thought this was a survival HORROR game? You guys are ripping the horror aspect right out of this game and are making Jason Voorhees look RIDICULOUS. 

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25 minutes ago, TestedTwice said:

@wes, @[IllFonic]Courier, @Gertz, @GunMedia_Ben

So how difficult would it be to introduce some options in the game lobbies? Why does everybody need to play with these ridiculous item markers appearing on the map? My friends and I stopped playing this game because every match is the exact same now. Low-repair counselors pick up and drop items on map to enable map markers, everyone flocks to the phone fuse/box, Jason shows up and looks ridiculous trying to grab the dancing counselors and getting chain stunned while A.J. disables the trap, installs the fuse and calls the police.  The police were called every match, the car was repaired every match, I escaped every match. You guys have made a once-great game boring as hell.

Before this patch, I can’t think of one time where people would intentionally drop things in the woods. When people would get killed in the woods with items, that made things feel hopeless for you as the last counselor alive. I thought this was a survival HORROR game? You guys are ripping the horror aspect right out of this game and are making Jason Voorhees look RIDICULOUS. 

Clearly we need to go back to the old playstyle where nothing got done because one random died in the middle of nowhere with a key item or two. Even if we went back to pre-patch item markers how would that stop the people who know what to do from shitting all over Jason? You are just asking it to be harder for the casual player while not really fixing anything.

Edited by Jawbone
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I played 15 matches of quick play today. Can anybody guess who quit every match?

Jason. Players hate the new grab nerf. Jason players won't stop rage quitting now.

I stopped trying to grab players as Jason. I have become a slasher only Jason.

The grab range needs to be fixed. I miss counselors right in front of me too often.

The lag every match does not help at all for quickplay matches at 250ms to 999ms.

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11 minutes ago, GhostWolfViking said:

I played 15 matches of quick play today. Can anybody guess who quit every match?

Jason. Players hate the new grab nerf. Jason players won't stop rage quitting now.

I stopped trying to grab players as Jason. I have become a slasher only Jason.

The grab range needs to be fixed. I miss counselors right in front of me too often.

The lag every match does not help at all for quickplay matches at 250ms to 999ms.

grab range needs to be increased slightly, but not to the extend it was before.

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On 11/2/2017 at 1:41 PM, Toddarino said:

I realize they probably aren't going to bring back the trap stacking.  I just wish they would fix the issue that made us stack in the first place.  Those traps should be almost deadly.  None of this trap tanking shit.  You shouldn't be able to just run through traps, spray up and hit another perks or not.

The game balance issue is not in tanking traps. It resides with the easily available healing. There should be no starts with a health spray perk. You should have to find sprays just like a pocket knife. Perks to increase spray uses are fine, but when an item that critical to undermining Jason's assets (like a knife) is common place, it makes his limited traps far less intimidating and formidable.

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Just now, CPLhicks31 said:

grab range needs to be increased slightly, but not to the extend it was before.

I agree. It needs to be reasonable but not turn you into Scorpion from Mortal Kombat.

To adapt to the changes I found part 3 Jason and slashing everyone works great.

When a player has a pocket knife they give it away. Most will turn to fight me or just stop moving.

They expect you to try and grab them. Players get angry when you cut them down. :lol:

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13 minutes ago, Alkavian said:

The game balance issue is not in tanking traps. It resides with the easily available healing. There should be no starts with a health spray perk. You should have to find sprays just like a pocket knife. Perks to increase spray uses are fine, but when an item that critical to undermining Jason's assets (like a knife) is common place, it makes his limited traps far less intimidating and formidable.

Never thought of that...But at this point you're right. Tanking the one well placed trap can be overly easy if you spawn with spray. I literally just finished a game where I spawned at the archery range and the shotgun was there and the fuse box was at the workshop. I ran to the workshop and found a spray, Jason Morphs there and traps the fuse box. I just waited him out until he had no choice but to leave and to go trap the cars. He tried Shift grabbing me twice but I window looped him. So he leaves and I eat the trap, fix the fuse box, and make the call before he can get back. I ended up using the shotgun on him before running off to the police 5 minutes later as I was the last person to escape. He promptly left the lobby.

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1 hour ago, AldermachXI said:

Never thought of that...But at this point you're right. Tanking the one well placed trap can be overly easy if you spawn with spray. I literally just finished a game where I spawned at the archery range and the shotgun was there and the fuse box was at the workshop. I ran to the workshop and found a spray, Jason Morphs there and traps the fuse box. I just waited him out until he had no choice but to leave and to go trap the cars. He tried Shift grabbing me twice but I window looped him. So he leaves and I eat the trap, fix the fuse box, and make the call before he can get back. I ended up using the shotgun on him before running off to the police 5 minutes later as I was the last person to escape. He promptly left the lobby.

Good example. Sometimes the solution to balance is not in an obvious adjustment. Trap stacking was largely done because it was easy to deal with them. It is also partially the reason why so many people won't "waste" a trap on anything but a critical objective. There probably shouldn't be more knives and health sprays on a map than the total number of traps a -traps Jason has. 3/3 , plus what Tommy spawns in with...so 4/4 assuming Tommy is called.

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4 hours ago, Jawbone said:

Clearly we need to go back to the old playstyle where nothing got done because one random died in the middle of nowhere with a key item or two. Even if we went back to pre-patch item markers how would that stop the people who know what to do from shitting all over Jason? You are just asking it to be harder for the casual player while not really fixing anything.

I don’t know what kind of lobbies you’re playing in, but even in quick play I very seldom had a problem losing objective items. In all the games I’ve played as a counselor and as Jason, the most likely place someone will die with an objective item is right next to the objective it’s for; right after they alert Jason by messing up on the skill check, and/or triggering a trap. 

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I've been on for an hour + and have only played one public match; empty lobbies and connection failures. It's 10:30pm on the east coast and the "Employment Agency" community is dead. Has it come to this? Regardless as to who is responsible, they have ruined what was a great game. 

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14 minutes ago, JasonSaves said:

I've been on for an hour + and have only played one public match; empty lobbies and connection failures. It's 10:30pm on the east coast and the "Employment Agency" community is dead. Has it come to this? Regardless as to who is responsible, they have ruined what was a great game. 

I can't say I didn't see this coming.

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1 minute ago, Caulus said:

I can't say I didn't see this coming.

This blows. I come home from work, hang out with the wife, clean the house a bit then sit down to play....nothing. 

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1 hour ago, TestedTwice said:

I don’t know what kind of lobbies you’re playing in, but even in quick play I very seldom had a problem losing objective items. In all the games I’ve played as a counselor and as Jason, the most likely place someone will die with an objective item is right next to the objective it’s for; right after they alert Jason by messing up on the skill check, and/or triggering a trap. 

Have you played since the sale at all? You can't leave the keys near the cars anymore because randoms pick them up and bring them all the way across the map until they die. If we didn't have objective markers it would be guaranteed secured kills for Jason. Reducing the damage new players can do is good and leads to a better overall experience.

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10 minutes ago, Jawbone said:

Have you played since the sale at all? You can't leave the keys near the cars anymore because randoms pick them up and bring them all the way across the map until they die. If we didn't have objective markers it would be guaranteed secured kills for Jason. Reducing the damage new players can do is good and leads to a better overall experience.

A casual mode would've done a better job, though.

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18 minutes ago, Caulus said:

A casual mode would've done a better job, though.

At doing what exactly? Segregating playerbases to appease a small group of people on a fourm?

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