Trident77

Series of Reworking the Counselor Objectives

22 posts in this topic

In light of the new change making it so Jason cannot stack traps close to each other, I've been wondering for some time now about how this shakes up the meta regarding Jason's traps. As it currently stands, the objectives can be taken down quicker when groups of counselors can coordinate with each other; this has fired up a storm of confusion as well as protests. What I believe is the developers wanted Jason players to become more creative with ensnaring their prey rather than stacking them to prevent certain objectives from never seeing completion.

I also believe this game can very well be made so Jason can use his traps sparingly to watch over objectives, yet at the same time have enough to play mind games with the counselors like the traps were likely intended for. The trick is I have several different proposals, so I decided to create for myself a thread that combines the different ideas I've come up with rather than spread them across multiple threads.

My proposals will follow this guideline I've set for myself:

  1. Try to minimalize the content that would need to be added.
  2. Clear counterplay for both sides of the coin (Jason and the counselors).
  3. Encourage teamwork from all aspects.

So...I'll have my first proposal up in a bit. For those who care to read this far, I thank you for your time, and I hope my ideas can somehow make an impact on the game for the better.

Edited by Trident77
Spelling issues. Fixed.
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Proposal #1: Cracking Open the Fuse Box.

In regards to calling the police, this is objective numero uno that Jason absolutely doesn't want the counselors to fix. Henceforth why stacking 2-3 traps has been a norm for many people, and it wouldn't be a strech to say this is the reason why several people hate this patch in particular.

As it stands, you need the following to call the police: a fuse. It's not carried by hand, rather it's stored in the inventory, and it's the only part necessary to call up an objective that makes it possible for everyone to escape after a few minutes have gone by (which can be lessened by a certain perk). Not being able to stack traps has made this an easier task to accomplish, and it's clear this may need some help. It's also the objective that is perhaps the easiest to "fix," and could even include some cool teamwork options to go with it.

First, the fuse box would be locked up by a durable plastic security lock like what are used in today's times to lock up bicycles. Immersion wise it could be Jason who did this to make sure the fuse box couldn't be opened; he's smart enough to know how to make home made bear traps, after all, so the idea that he would take extra measures to ensure the police can't be called wouldn't be far fetched. So on top of the currently existing system of calling the police, you'd now have to find a way to get rid of the chain.

My proposal is simple: using a pocket knife. Since the security lock is made of durable plastic, it can be cut. But it's tough; it would take some time...and a QTE to go with it. But unlike normal QTEs that involve the repair stat, this one would require the strength stat instead. So finding a pocket knife wouldn't be enough, and if you mess up the QTE then Jason receives the phone sound notification that someone is trying to mess with the fuse box.

As a result, the fuse box has added security, and since many counselors skilled in repairs have low strength, it would make this objective more difficult to accomplish. Furthermore, using the pocket knife for this purpose also uses it up; the security lock is made out of very tough plastic designed to be cut/weather proof, so it stands to reason that using a pocket knife would probably damage the blade itself. And on top of all this you still need the phone fuse, then repair the fuse box without screwing up, then finally calling the police after a short moment of wait time.

This would make it so Jason wouldn't feel the need to have to stack traps: counselors would need to burn a pocket knife first, not to mention a counselor proficient in strength would be necessary unless a player feels comfortable enough to try this anyways (albeit screwing up will warn Jason the fuse box is being tampered with; expect his company, and try to avoid using that pocket knife).

Pros:

  • New system could work in this new meta where Jason cannot put traps close to each other.
  • Introduction of QTEs involving the strength stat, making strength a more valuable asset than just for the Killing Jason objective.
  • Eats up a pocket knife, and when you consider Jason placing a trap on the spot you'll have to use two total pocket knives in order to silently work on this objective. Thus it's a Jason buff to help him deal with only using one trap to guard the fuse box.
  • Tommy Jarvis spawns in-game with a pocket knife (to disarm the security lock at the cost of using it up) and a med spray (can be used to disarm a trap Jason places, albeit Jason will know someone stepped on it). Therefore counselors do have an ace up their sleeves to getting this objective going.

Cons:

  • A very dedicated team could still possibly swam the objective to get it fixed within a handful of minutes.
  • A good fix for public matches, but coordinated groups can still call the police rather quickly if Jason isn't careful.

In short, a simple fix involving another step counselors must take in order to call the police. Would also make strength counselors more useful, and this isn't the only proposal I have that will feature strength QTEs.

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would make a nice change for skill checks(QTEs) to be made based on skills other than repair

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Love this idea! It'll give the stronger characters more objective responsibility instead of just being relied on for muscle.

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Proposal #2: Pumping the Gas.

Here's a fun fact about metal jerry cans that can hold five+ gallons of gasoline: They're heavy. But at the same exact time making them weigh down counselors would kind of be a dick move when you consider that it would put many other items' weight into suspect, and I believe there's an easier way to solve this.

The next proposal is making it so that filling gas, whether it be a car or boat, is now a strength QTE rather than a repair version. This makes it so one of the most important objective parts in the game is now tied to brawn rather than brain.

Pros:

  • Repair counselor will have a difficult time fixing a car/boat on their own; this encourages teamwork.
  • Strength counselors gain more importance as fixers. Keep in mind there are two total objectives in a regular map that needs gas, and several strength counselors tend to have decent if not outstanding athleticism.
  • Repair counselors with weak strength will not always be hunted down quickly if filling gas isn't tied to repair anymore.

Cons:

  • Jason can no longer ignore strength counselors with terrible-mediocre repair stats, meaning an entire team has the potential to get a car/boat fixed as well as going.
  • Repair counselors will have to hook up more often with loud, unstealthy strength counselors. This is because currently there are no strength counselors with outstanding stealth, meaning you'll have to gang up on Jason to survive rather than hide on your own at some point in the game. Unless a strength counselor fills the gas on their own before Jason shows up, you'll probably see Deborah hooking up with Buggzy more often than she might prefer.

On its own, it would seem like the pros as well as cons clash with each other, so this would be more of an immersion buff rather than actually improving the game mechanics. But...there is one more idea I do have to propose that could help tip the scales for implementing this idea...(see next post in a bit).

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Proposal #3: Where Does that Gas Come From?

Building off the second proposal, there's another proposal to make that could give Jason a much needed breather when it comes to placing limited amounts of traps. However, I will warn this is going to be another long post, so for those of you who put up with my long ideas, much appreciated for giving me your time!

First off, the gas cans are all empty. Immersion wise these cans haven't been filled for a while, and since leaving gasoline for a long period of time inside a jerry can is a huge no-no safety wise, the jerry cans all need to be filled once again.

But...good news! There's a new olden day self-serve gas pump on the camp! The camp people needed the extra money, and its helps the business to have a gas pump readily available near the campsite. The bad news, however, is that it needs to be fixed...and it looks like someone wearing a hockey mask (or a sack on their head) might've done something to it as well to keep pesky camp counselors from using it.

The gas pump would be located outside, and it happens to be near either the two-seater car or the boat depending on what spawns in the map. Nearby is a small shack built that holds various items, one of which is always a jerry can. This jerry can is the one that spawns in the vicinity of the two-seater/boat, so there would be one more that spawns randomly in one of the cabins. The catch is this shack has no windows as well as only one way in as well as out; Jason can use a trap to block this shack off, effectively preventing the jerry can from being used without help.

Once a counselor has a jerry can, they can run over to the pump. First, the pump itself is damaged, but can be fixed by means of a repair QTE (no objective part needed for this one). However, there is one more issue facing the counselors: the gas hose itself has been severely cut, shortening it so it cannot reach the ground. Furthermore, with no nozzle attachment at the end, the gasoline will spill out violently unless the counselor holds the jerry can up so the shortened hose can easily pour gasoline into the can. This would use a strength QTE since filling the metal jerry can makes it heavier. The final issue is the pump makes loud noise while its spewing out gasoline; its noise equivalent would be a counselor with one point in stealth sprinting, making it so Jason can easily detect from noise pings if sneaky counselors are trying to fill gas.

(Edit: The gas only spews out while the strength QTE is going on. Otherwise no gasoline continues to spew since it's not turned on yet. But once a counselor uses the repaired gas pump to fill a jerry can...you're going to make a lot of noise.)

This leads to one final big decision: what should the jerry can from the shack be used to fill up? It's near the two-seater/boat, meaning the other jerry can is far away...and who knows if a repair counselor found a battery, car keys, or a boat propeller in the mean time. Should you take the gas over to the four-seater, making it useable to save more people but screw over the people who are trying fix the lesser objective? Or should you do the easier route, but make it so fewer people can potentially escape?

Finally, for immersion purposes, once a counselor uses a full jerry can to fill up an objective (by means of a strength QTE, like my previous proposal would do), they discover a leak has popped up on the jerry can. As a result, the counselor cannot re-use the same gas can to fill up a new objective. You'd have to find a new jerry can in order to fill up another objective, once again dragging it to the pump.

Pros

  • Jason can use a trap to block off the shack containing one of the two jerry cans on the map.
  • Counselors with a full map will know the guaranteed location of one of the jerry cans located on the map even before it's dropped.
  • The pump needs to be fixed with a repair QTE, then filling up a jerry can using a strength QTE, and someone has to make a run for the missing jerry can found in one of the cabins. In other words, teamwork is heavily encouraged to fill up the jerry cans while protecting the person filling the gas cans (did I mention the whole filling up the gas part makes a crap load of noise pings Jason can see?).
  • By using one trap to protect the phone (along with its added security from the first proposal), using one trap to protect his mother's sweater, and finally using a trap to block off the shack that contains a jerry can, Jason will be able to lock down all key objectives with only three traps while also having more counter-play against counselors. Even Part 7 will have a much easier time preventing the counselors from using the objectives to escape.

Cons

  • This would be a serious Jason buff; could possibly need to be toned down a bit if it became too difficult for counselors to escape.
  • Strength will be needed more than ever since you will draw an attentive Jason's attention trying to fill up a heavy jerry can.

This would conclude the major proposals I've been thinking of for some time now. I'll post more in the future if I come up with anything else.

Edited by Trident77
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Given the reactions to the recent changes to Jason's grab/trap placement, I think what you are proposing should be seriously considered by the devs, not only do the ideas give rise to increasing counsellor diversity (IE the lobbies are less likely to be composed of only high repair counselors), but changes like the ones you propose or changes based off of the ideas you are putting on the table would counterbalance the recent changes to Jason... adding complications to counsellor objectives would certainly give Jason more opportunities to encounter counsellors

The two cents worth I would throw into this idea pot, is that the phone box would need to be programmed so it is not adjacent to the location of the gas pump... at least a minimum of a couple of cabins away would be fair...

When it comes to the jerry cans, this may be going a bit far, but from the stealth aspect a jerry can containing gas (IE a liquid), the liquid would swish around inside the container if someone is jogging/sprinting while carrying it, so instead of 2 empty jerry cans, spawn 1 that is already filled and one that is empty, (though randomise which one appears where on a match by match basis), and if possible programme the game so that anyone who is carrying a filled can makes more noise than carrying an empty one, unless they are crouched and moving slowly, as slower movement would reduce the movement of the liquid and cause less noise

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On 10/29/2017 at 1:32 PM, BossDanny said:

When it comes to the jerry cans, this may be going a bit far, but from the stealth aspect a jerry can containing gas (IE a liquid), the liquid would swish around inside the container if someone is jogging/sprinting while carrying it, so instead of 2 empty jerry cans, spawn 1 that is already filled and one that is empty, (though randomise which one appears where on a match by match basis), and if possible programme the game so that anyone who is carrying a filled can makes more noise than carrying an empty one, unless they are crouched and moving slowly, as slower movement would reduce the movement of the liquid and cause less noise

The thing is that strength counselors, the ones who would be filling the jerry cans most of the time, are people who already don't care about being stealthy. It would basically be a huge nerf to counselors who try to pick the jerry can up if it were abandoned or the person carrying it was executed by Jason.

Don't get me wrong; I don't think it's a terrible idea, and I do like realism for immersion purposes. But the whole gas pump idea would already be a severe counselor nerf, so this might break the bank if it were implemented.

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These are all good ideas, I think the best short term fix would be to expand the random placement for the key items. Most maps only have 2-3 spawn points which can be figured out based on cabin spawns.

i think the items should spawn anywhere with the following rules:

1. Key items can never spawn in the cabin that contains the goal. (No fuse in the fuse box cabin)

2. Car boat items have a minimal spawn distance,  example:(gas isn’t in the cabin next to the car).

3. The key items have a maximum distance limit, so key items can’t on the opposite end of the map form the goal.

4. Duplicate key items, can’t spawn in the same place. 

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Proposal #4: Fixing the Car.

This one is going to be a conglomeration of a few ideas in regards to fixing cars in-game.

First, the gas lid should be opened when a car hasn't been filled by a jerry can. This would make it easier for Jason to know if the counselors have already done this step, and therefore won't waste a trap.

(Credit due to @Archgamer for introducing me to this idea in a previous thread of his).

Secondly, the four-seater car would have a defective battery in place before you install a new one. This means a counselor must first complete a Repair QTE by removing the old battery out of the four-seater car. Afterward, you would get the chance to install a new battery if one is found. While the defective battery is in place there would be some sort of visual indicator telling everyone this step has yet to accomplished; my idea would be for smoke to be rising out of the car engine area while the hood is still up. For immersion purposes Jason had sabotaged this car earlier, destroying the battery with his weapon.

The two-seater car, on the flip side, doesn't have a defective/destroyed battery that a counselor has to remove, making it easier to fix, and therefore a slightly more attractive option for counselors to fix since Jason could possibly ignore putting a trap on this objective to use elsewhere. Immersion-wise this car was left behind a while ago, therefore Jason didn't sabotage this car because it's already missing parts (the batter, keys, and you need to fill gas).

Finally, whenever doing a battery Repair QTE, it now receives its own special noise notification that warns Jason someone is trying to repair the car via battery. People fixing electrical boxes (minus the phone box) make noises that sounds exactly like the battery; this can trick Jason into thinking someone is repairing the four-seater, and therefore counselors have been known to purposely fail a QTE check on electrical boxes in order to draw Jason's attention there while buying the rest of their teammates more breathing time. It can even potentially be done by malicious trolls in order to get Jason to Morph near a car when the troll knows someone is repairing it on the full map.

Pros

  • The first as well as third options are something I'm surprised haven't been implemented yet, considering they would help both sides of the coin.
  • Prevents trolls from using electrical boxes to silently warn Jason someone is trying to repair a car (likely the four-seater since Jason will Morph to prevent the better car from being fixed if the two-seater is in the match).
  • Jason won't have to guess anymore if the gas has already been filled in a car.

Cons

  • The second option isn't necessary, although it does give Jason another chance to hunt down counselors.
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In my suggestion list i wrote something called "tree on the road" 

This will slow down the "phone/car" fix and also force people to coordinate, ( plus will give to the strength counselors something to do, since they are the only one able to remove the object)

 

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On 2017-10-28 at 10:15 AM, Trident77 said:

Proposal #1: Cracking Open the Fuse Box.

...

This is excellent.

@[IllFonic]Courier You should read this. Maybe not take it as is but it is really interesting input for redesign. Skill checks on different stat than repair is really interesting.

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On 10/31/2017 at 11:30 AM, shodan said:

These are all good ideas, I think the best short term fix would be to expand the random placement for the key items. Most maps only have 2-3 spawn points which can be figured out based on cabin spawns.

i think the items should spawn anywhere with the following rules:

1. Key items can never spawn in the cabin that contains the goal. (No fuse in the fuse box cabin)

This one sounds very reasonable since it's the phone fuse we're talking about.

2. Car boat items have a minimal spawn distance,  example:(gas isn’t in the cabin next to the car).

Could also make it a bit easier since counselors will know for sure where a part wouldn't be in that case, but I like the intentions behind this idea.

3. The key items have a maximum distance limit, so key items can’t on the opposite end of the map form the goal.

I think this is only a problem on the Jarvis Map, and even then there is a considerable crowd of people who do like the objectives on that map being harder to fix. Dunno, I think the devs are going to address this either way.

4. Duplicate key items, can’t spawn in the same place. 

I like this idea, although I don't remember this being a problem on the large maps. If it's a small map problem, then for sure a good idea.

 

11 minutes ago, Blinckx said:

In my suggestion list i wrote something called "tree on the road" 

This will slow down the "phone/car" fix and also force people to coordinate, ( plus will give to the strength counselors something to do, since they are the only one able to remove the object)

 

I like the idea with the tree blocking the main exits for the car/police. But I think it should just be a strength QTE rather than "only counselors with said amount of strength can do this."

I'll gather my thoughts on the other ones later; it's starting to get pretty late where I'm at.

8 minutes ago, Fooobar said:

This is excellent.

@[IllFonic]Courier You should read this. Maybe not take it as is but it is really interesting input for redesign. Skill checks on different stat than repair is really interesting.

Thanks for the feedback!

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It is so nice with well thought suggestions.

Most post here with suggestion is of type "Wouldn't it be cool if Tommy came a equipped with an AK47 with 120 rounds". They never think of balance :)

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I meant to check back on this when I had time to read everything. I finally got that chance today.

On 10/28/2017 at 3:15 AM, Trident77 said:

My proposal is simple: using a pocket knife. Since the security lock is made of durable plastic, it can be cut. But it's tough; it would take some time...and a QTE to go with it. But unlike normal QTEs that involve the repair stat, this one would require the strength stat instead.

I'd say instead of a pocket knife you have to find bolt cutters. Extra item to search for so it would be more on par with the other objectives.

On 10/28/2017 at 10:33 PM, Trident77 said:

First, the pump itself is damaged, but can be fixed by means of a repair QTE

I don't think you should have to fix the pump, but the pump itself is a good idea.

I don't really like the battery idea for the 4 seater. Changing up the gas should work well enough.

All in all, good ideas and great explanations!

9 hours ago, Fooobar said:

It is so nice with well thought suggestions.

Most post here with suggestion is of type "Wouldn't it be cool if Tommy came a equipped with an AK47 with 120 rounds". They never think of balance :)

Right? I don't think any suggestions have been this well thought out.

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21 minutes ago, Truth said:

I meant to check back on this when I had time to read everything. I finally got that chance today.

I'd say instead of a pocket knife you have to find bolt cutters. Extra item to search for so it would be more on par with the other objectives.

I don't think you should have to fix the pump, but the pump itself is a good idea.

I don't really like the battery idea for the 4 seater. Changing up the gas should work well enough.

All in all, good ideas and great explanations!

Right? I don't think any suggestions have been this well thought out.

The pocket knife was specifically chosen to make it so a valuable item would need to be used in order to access the fuse box. Pocket knives aren't infinite, and if you screw up when Jason shows up, you might end up using that very pocket knife to save your own neck. Therefore you're down a pocket knife, and back to square one. There's even a chance the fuse box will never be fixed as a result, forcing the counselors to wait until Tommy Jarvis arrives (unless ofc he uses the pocket knife up beforehand).

I'm not against using bolt cutters, but then it just makes it a "find this part on the map when it's dropped" deal which makes it significantly easier to access the fuse box. This objective is the most powerful one in-game since it gives everyone a chance to flee, therefore IMHO the cost to possibly opening this objective up should be tricky in response.

Otherwise, I'm glad you took the time to read my proposals!

 

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26 minutes ago, Trident77 said:

The pocket knife was specifically chosen to make it so a valuable item would need to be used in order to access the fuse box. Pocket knives aren't infinite, and if you screw up when Jason shows up, you might end up using that very pocket knife to save your own neck. Therefore you're down a pocket knife, and back to square one. There's even a chance the fuse box will never be fixed as a result, forcing the counselors to wait until Tommy Jarvis arrives (unless ofc he uses the pocket knife up beforehand).

I'm not against using bolt cutters, but then it just makes it a "find this part on the map when it's dropped" deal which makes it significantly easier to access the fuse box. This objective is the most powerful one in-game since it gives everyone a chance to flee, therefore IMHO the cost to possibly opening this objective up should be tricky in response.

Otherwise, I'm glad you took the time to read my proposals!

Understandable reasoning. I'm not opposed to it at all. I just think I'd have a hard time cutting through a bike lock with a flimsy little pocket knife. A bolt cutter would make more sense. But if you specifically wanted the knife so there's a chance of not being able to complete it at all, totally makes sense.

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On 10/28/2017 at 3:15 AM, Trident77 said:

Proposal #1: Cracking Open the Fuse Box.

My proposal is simple: using a pocket knife. Since the security lock is made of durable plastic, it can be cut. But it's tough; it would take some time...and a QTE to go with it. But unlike normal QTEs that involve the repair stat, this one would require the strength stat instead. So finding a pocket knife wouldn't be enough, and if you mess up the QTE then Jason receives the phone sound notification that someone is trying to mess with the fuse box.

I shortened the quote as to not take up space.
First, I'd like to say that I like your idea to change up the escape for counselors as it is a mass escape and is the easiest one. One small change that could possibly help make this wayy harder without adding any other objectives would just be to make the phone now in the phone house.
Perhaps Jason can see both the box and phone on his map or perhaps he can't see the phone. 
I'm just saying it's unrealistic there is only 1 phone anyway so why not put it in a different house. This way teams couldn't chain stun at the box and protect the person calling. It'd have to be separate. Also, this would make it to where the counselors had to find the phone and coordinate the fixing and the call so it wouldn't be such a quick thing for Jason to worry about and you wouldn't feel obligated to triple trap to win.
I'd personally like this idea. Then people couldn't simply find the fuse, fix, then slip inside and call all in 2 minutes. 

 

Edit: I read all your other proposals and They're pretty good.
I don't think the self-serve gas pump along with taking out and old battery would be well received as to adding a bunch of steps.
I do like the immersion factor it would give. There wouldn't be just gas containers chilling around or two cars with no batteries. 
Also, people would just immediately run to cars and do the install before Jason morphed...soo it's kind of not an important step.
I love the fact of trying to use Strength as a factor in repairs... I myself in previous posts had suggested that certain characters be better at propeller and gas vs fuse and battery but mine was not a strength stat but more a personality type of thing. Adam is a biker/mechanic/fix-it type of guy and then A.J. and Kenny would fall towards that as well, but I like using strength better. That's a good idea.

Some of these ideas should be greatly considered. Maybe not taken as is, but at least looked at and tested.

I also believe that if counselors are supposed to fear for their lives from Jason and be trying to escape that Timeout should not be a win for counselors. I think it should be a win for Jason because so what if a counselor survived 20 minutes. Jason would still hunt you down and kill you.. but I see people not wanting to give Jason the win, so I think nobody should get points for that. It shouldn't say survived/dead on the screen of the counselor but rather just say Game Over and then they get no bonus xp. This would maybe get people to try to escape more instead of trying to just run n hide all match.

You've done well @Trident77 

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2 minutes ago, Truth said:

More people need to read this post!!!

@Trident77 has some really good ideas here and people should add their input.

Just frequently comment to reload to top. He's got good suggestions

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6 minutes ago, PsychBam said:

Just frequently comment to reload to top. He's got good suggestions

I actually need to read through this again... It's been a while and I can't say that I actually remember the ideas. I just know they were good.

Edit: Never mind, I member.

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Heh, well thanks guys for the attention. I actually do have another proposal I've thought of regarding the police escape option, but I'll have to post later because I have some errands/work to do now.

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