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If people are this desperate to have the grab nerf undone

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People were desperate for Jason nerfs before. They got their wish. Now people are desperate for Jason buffs. They will get their wish in the next update.

The cycle continues to repeat itself as the devs continue not to test anything or help find a middle ground.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Archgamer said:

People were desperate for Jason nerfs before. They got their wish. Now people are desperate for Jason buffs. They will get their wish in the next update.

The cycle continues to repeat itself as the devs continue not to test anything or help find a middle ground.

 

 

Exactly... I hate these kneejerk changes with a passion...

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5 hours ago, Truth said:

You're STILL having that issue?!? WTF?

Unfortunately. 

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4 hours ago, El Jefe said:

If they relied on a silly grab range and multi-trapping, maybe a lot of people just weren't as good at playing Jason as they thought they were.

I'd like to know what goes through your head when you say something as absurd as this. Multi-trapping objectives came from Jasons getting tired of 5 minute matches, and no Jason to my knowledge can adjust the size of their grab reach on demand, so how is that the player's fault, again? If you don't understand how the meta came about in the first place, please don't speak to other player's skill levels.

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3 hours ago, pRaX said:

Let's see if you are a truly skilled god or just full of it...

Tell us where triple-trapping originated from.. why people started doing it. Little hint: It's not because they are bad.

Go Jefe!

Can't I be an unskilled god who is half full of it? I said that mainly because I find the tirade of "omg game iz broken nao" to be silly. If it ends up that the grab change really has broken Jason then I'm sure they'll patch in a fix later. You know, maybe after looking at the play data and seeing if the outcome matches what they intended. As for the trap change, I never put more than a single trap on an objective and did just fine. Sure, every once in a while someone would disable my phone trap and some people would escape. But not getting 8/8 every game doesn't hurt my ego a bit.

If you want me to answer your riddle, you'll probably have to be more specific. Unless you simply mean how triple-trapping is primary used to shut down the phone/police escape because it's the only way to escape with more than four people (and with the right perk that can be pretty fast). If you mean something else, I'm not sure.

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2 hours ago, Archgamer said:

People were desperate for Jason nerfs before. They got their wish. Now people are desperate for Jason buffs. They will get their wish in the next update.

The cycle continues to repeat itself as the devs continue not to test anything or help find a middle ground.

 

 

It was fine the way it was they beefed up Tommy added fox added the can see items on map yet every single thing on jason's patch was a nerf go look at it again and tell me they purposely nerfed the hell out of him and made it easier for councelers. They didn't have to touch anything on Jason and the game would of been fine no bitching at all. No need to mess up grab no reason for the trap issue also no reason for the added hits to the door last patch was perfect they didn't even say it was a supposed glitch until this patch which is messed up. They need to return all that back

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10 minutes ago, Hal Bailman said:

I'd like to know what goes through your head when you say something as absurd as this. Multi-trapping objectives came from Jasons getting tired of 5 minute matches, and no Jason to my knowledge can adjust the size of their grab reach on demand, so how is that the player's fault, again? If you don't understand how the meta came about in the first place, please don't speak to other player's skill levels.

Well, I do understand how the meta came about, so does that give me permission? I don't need your permission or have to meet your qualifications to voice my opinion. Frankly, if someone had so many 5 minute matches that they got tired of it, maybe they weren't that good at the game. I've been playing since release and I've never used more than one trap per objective. I also didn't say anything about being able to adjust your grab range. What I was trying to say is that it seems the developers didn't intend Jason to grab things like Scorpion from Mortal Kombat, so they fixed it. If people are now finding that they had to have that ability to "win", maybe they just need to get better at playing Jason instead of relying on a broken mechanic. 

I have nothing invested in being able to escape as a counselor. I don't want Jason "nerfed" to make it easier to escape. I hit 101 back in late June/early July and have enough red and orange perks that spending CP is basically pointless for me now. While I do my best to help complete objectives and help others escape, I actually enjoy getting killed by Jason. Why? I'm a fan of Friday the 13th. I still get a kick out of each kill. When I play Jason, I play to have fun not to stroke some virtual ego.

I just find the vitriol a bit silly. It was the same in Dead by Daylight. It didn't matter if the change was to the killer or the victims, people would come out of the woodwork crying that the End is motherfuckin' Nigh because of each and every patch. They've been doing it in this game since it release as well.

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55 minutes ago, El Jefe said:

Can't I be an unskilled god who is half full of it? I said that mainly because I find the tirade of "omg game iz broken nao" to be silly. If it ends up that the grab change really has broken Jason then I'm sure they'll patch in a fix later. You know, maybe after looking at the play data and seeing if the outcome matches what they intended. As for the trap change, I never put more than a single trap on an objective and did just fine. Sure, every once in a while someone would disable my phone trap and some people would escape. But not getting 8/8 every game doesn't hurt my ego a bit.

If you want me to answer your riddle, you'll probably have to be more specific. Unless you simply mean how triple-trapping is primary used to shut down the phone/police escape because it's the only way to escape with more than four people (and with the right perk that can be pretty fast). If you mean something else, I'm not sure.

These tirades are always silly... I agree. But they are part of gaming when it comes to MP/PvP/Competitive titles.. since forever... they are needed though, because they produce results. Positive and negative ofc... better than no results/changes at all though.

Anyways... to get to my "riddle" :D

The multi-trapping originated as a counter to a certain exploit that allowed/allows Counsellors to repair the phonebox (also cars/generators) by glitching out the interaction, which prevented triggering a trap. You could do this solo (best chance to counter with multiple traps), which was harder to pull off, or with a 2nd Counselor which made it easy to do (less chance to counter with multiple traps, if at all).

So I'm not surprised alot of people sticked with it. I'd do the same unless someone gives me 100% proof they absolutely fixed that shit. And I'm not talking about a line in the patchlogs... those turned out to be inaccurate often enough.

I'm just trying to tell you that not everybody who does this, is doing it because he's bad or wants to piss everyone off... more like because, sadly, alot of people have to rely on exploits to get results.

What Hal Bailman said is also a reason. But I don't completely agree with it. But it surely should net you at least 2 kills, depending on the amount of other escape possibilities... so, I'd say a valid strategy for a meta/tryhard nonetheless. I personally wouldn't want to have to do this though and spread them more out. But I also don't think the whole trap mechanic etc. is ideal in general...

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Lets be honest.  The Jason mechanics have never been strong.  His biggest strengths are the fact he could overtrap objectives, had a reach that is visually incorrect so caused people to misjudge their dodges, can magically speed around like the FLash every few seconds and appear from thin air, and the break free mechanic is totally worthless since certain grab kills allow for instant kills even on the strongest highest composure counselors.


It's just not... Great.  It's exceedingly rare to be impressed when Jason gets you.  It often feels like cheesy bad mechanics and design that got you.

 

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4 minutes ago, Strangefate said:

Lets be honest.  The Jason mechanics have never been strong.  His biggest strengths are the fact he could overtrap objectives, had a reach that is visually incorrect so caused people to misjudge their dodges, can magically speed around like the FLash every few seconds and appear from thin air, and the break free mechanic is totally worthless since certain grab kills allow for instant kills even on the strongest highest composure counselors.


It's just not... Great.  It's exceedingly rare to be impressed when Jason gets you.  It often feels like cheesy bad mechanics and design that got you.

 

This! A million times. But I just can't blame the players for it. I'd even go as far and say it's not just Jason though... sadly...

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1 minute ago, pRaX said:

These tirades are always silly... I agree. But they are part of gaming when it comes to MP/PvP/Competitive titles.. since forever... they are needed though, because they produce results. Positive and negative ofc... better than no results/changes at all though.

Anyways... to get to my "riddle" :D

The multi-trapping originated as a counter to a certain exploit that allowed/allows Counsellors to repair the phonebox (also cars/generators) by glitching out the interaction, which prevented triggering a trap. You could do this solo (best chance to counter with multiple traps), which was harder to pull off, or with a 2nd Counselor which made it easy to do (less chance to counter with multiple traps, if at all).

So I'm not surprised alot of people sticked with it. I'd do the same unless someone gives me 100% proof they absolutely fixed that shit. And I'm not talking about a line in the patchlogs... those turned out to be inaccurate often enough.

I'm just trying to tell you that not everybody who does this, is doing it because he's bad or wants to piss everyone off... more like because, sadly, alot of people have to rely on exploits to get results.

Yeah, that exploit. Despite playing this game like a religion for most of June and July, I didn't actually see it that often myself.

I don't think everyone who triple-traps does it because they suck or they're assholes. There's probably some, but that's true in any setting. I think it's more of a mindset of winning versus playing. I'm more rewarded by someone telling me "Damn, man, you scared the hell out of me" than by getting 8/8.

I wish the game were even more like the movies, with Jason starting out with Stalk but having it go away when there's only two people left. I wish that the last person alive got a significant buff and the ability to "stop" or "kill" Jason and escape because that happened in every single movie. I wish Jason couldn't teleport within people's fields of view. I wish he could pick up and use different weapons. But I don't know if what I want would actually be playable, especially as a multiplayer game. In this case, I've sacrificed verisimilitude to game play because I know this is likely the closest I'll ever get to what I really want.

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1 minute ago, El Jefe said:

I wish the game were even more like the movies, with Jason starting out with Stalk but having it go away when there's only two people left. I wish that the last person alive got a significant buff and the ability to "stop" or "kill" Jason and escape because that happened in every single movie. I wish Jason couldn't teleport within people's fields of view. I wish he could pick up and use different weapons. But I don't know if what I want would actually be playable, especially as a multiplayer game. In this case, I've sacrificed verisimilitude to game play because I know this is likely the closest I'll ever get to what I really want.

Preach it! I'm actually with you on these matters :D

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Just now, El Jefe said:

Well, I do understand how the meta came about [...] Frankly, if someone had so many 5 minute matches that they got tired of it, maybe they weren't that good at the game.

These statements contradict each other. If you knew how the meta came about, then you'd also understand that a Jason that has to guard 3-4 objectives without traps or knives is very likely a Jason that's going to have the cops called on them, especially early on the the game's life. These experiences informed the Jason about where their priorities should lie, and when the game provided a means to help secure it, they did. Hence the phone trap meta.

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 I've been playing since release and I've never used more than one trap per objective.

I believe you when it comes to this statement, but the fact is that if you were able to defend your objectives with only a single trap on each, the group of counselors that you were facing just were not that good. You can nullify every single Jason's entire set of traps (sans Part 2) with one Vanessa and a Medic perk, made even easier if you have Hypochondriac. I love spawning at the phone house on my medics. Wait for the Morph, immediately run into the traps and heal, then dip out and hide since you know exactly where the next Morph's gonna be. And that's if you wanted to take out 4-5. For a single trap, I'll gladly trade a Pocket Knife for a quick cop call and a 2/8 round for the Jason.
 

Quote

I just find the vitriol a bit silly. It was the same in Dead by Daylight. It didn't matter if the change was to the killer or the victims, people would come out of the woodwork crying that the End is motherfuckin' Nigh because of each and every patch. They've been doing it in this game since it release as well.

That's a fair point. While I find having to relearn basic combat information tedious, ("Will my baseball bat work today? It's Tuesday, let's find out!") I'd like to see more nuanced discussion when it comes to balance changes and patch notes instead of "this is broken", "this is shit", and etc.

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People who complain about Jason's grab just suck.

I mean, most Jasons can't run, which means all you need to do is stay near a cabin to avoid being insta-grabbed. The only way Jason can even get close enough to grab is with shift, lucky morph and player error. Stamina was probably added because the devs realized that non-running Jasons would have a terrible experience.

People who ask for Jason to be nerfed aren't really fans of Friday the 13th, imo.

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On 10/27/2017 at 4:27 PM, Hal Bailman said:

These statements contradict each other. If you knew how the meta came about, then you'd also understand that a Jason that has to guard 3-4 objectives without traps or knives is very likely a Jason that's going to have the cops called on them, especially early on the the game's life. These experiences informed the Jason about where their priorities should lie, and when the game provided a means to help secure it, they did. Hence the phone trap meta.

I believe you when it comes to this statement, but the fact is that if you were able to defend your objectives with only a single trap on each, the group of counselors that you were facing just were not that good. You can nullify every single Jason's entire set of traps (sans Part 2) with one Vanessa and a Medic perk, made even easier if you have Hypochondriac. I love spawning at the phone house on my medics. Wait for the Morph, immediately run into the traps and heal, then dip out and hide since you know exactly where the next Morph's gonna be. And that's if you wanted to take out 4-5. For a single trap, I'll gladly trade a Pocket Knife for a quick cop call and a 2/8 round for the Jason.
 

That's a fair point. While I find having to relearn basic combat information tedious, ("Will my baseball bat work today? It's Tuesday, let's find out!") I'd like to see more nuanced discussion when it comes to balance changes and patch notes instead of "this is broken", "this is shit", and etc.

I have 427 hours in the game. That doesn't mean I'm awesome, but it does mean I have enough time invested to know the game. I know why players use certain tactics. One of my best online friends regularly plays Ol' Sackhead and triple-traps the phone every time. I know he's a good player and a good guy. I just personally find the tactic cheesy and won't use it. My opinion doesn't come from a few random games with bad players, it comes from 240 games played as Jason in which I rarely got less than 6/8 kills. Usually people got away from me in the boat or the two-seater because I prioritize them less. I've never played in private lobbies, but I've played purely random matches with both noobs and other 101s. I've played in groups with other skilled players who know what they're doing. I've seen Twitch streamer EdEMonster play in private games full of level 101 streamers who played the game as a job and he never triple-trapped (and didn't repeat kills) and rarely got less than 8/8. Triple-trapping is effective, but it isn't needed.

I actually do the same tactic you discuss, but with Tiffany and a different set of perks. But I started doing it solely to combat Jasons who multi-trap. I agree with you and the use of pocket knives, but in my experience people just rarely seemed to use them that way. There are too many selfish players who will not give up a get-out-grab-free card even if it means completing a major objective. I will admit I probably should have been more nuanced in my original post.

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8 minutes ago, El Jefe said:

I have 427 hours in the game. That doesn't mean I'm awesome, but it doesn't mean I have enough time invested to know the game. I know why players use certain tactics. One of my best online friends regularly plays Ol' Sackhead and triple-traps the phone every time. I know he's a good player and a good guy. I just personally find the tactic cheesy and won't use it. My opinion doesn't come from a few random games with bad players, it comes from 240 games played as Jason in which I rarely got less than 6/8 kills. Usually people got away from me in the boat or the two-seater because I prioritize them less. I've never played in private lobbies, but I've played purely random matches with both noobs and other 101s. I've played in groups with other skilled players who know what they're doing. I've seen Twitch streamer EdEMonster play in private games full of level 101 streamers who played the game as a job and he never triple-trapped (and didn't repeat kills) and rarely got less than 8/8. Triple-trapping is effective, but it isn't needed.

I actually do the same tactic you discuss, but with Tiffany and a different set of perks. But I started doing it solely to combat Jasons who multi-trap. I agree with you and the use of pocket knives, but in my experience people just rarely seemed to use them that way. There are too many selfish players who will not give up a get-out-grab-free card even if it means completing a major objective. I will admit I probably should have been more nuanced in my original post.

You're apologizing for people who aren't good at the game. Play to win. Showing them no mercy forces them to adapt and find tactics that work.

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7 minutes ago, Caulus said:

People who ask for Jason to be nerfed aren't really fans of Friday the 13th, imo.

True.

Fans of the franchise will, however, want changes that make Jason more like the movies. I don't recall Jason getting cybernetic arms that allowed him to grab people from 10 feet away in any of the movies, though, not even Jason X. I'd prefer Jason's grab to look "real", you know, like he's actually close enough to grab them. I do think they need to make sure it works as intended, such as the idea of inverting the "grab cone" that others have mentioned. I agree that Jason needs to be overpowering, almost unstoppable. I just want it to look right at the same time.

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2 minutes ago, El Jefe said:

True.

Fans of the franchise will, however, want changes that make Jason more like the movies. I don't recall Jason getting cybernetic arms that allowed him to grab people from 10 feet away in any of the movies, though, not even Jason X. I'd prefer Jason's grab to look "real", you know, like he's actually close enough to grab them. I do think they need to make sure it works as intended, such as the idea of inverting the "grab cone" that others have mentioned. I agree that Jason needs to be overpowering, almost unstoppable. I just want it to look right at the same time.

Yes, but realize that it's a video game and that somethings have to be the way they are. Limitations of the medium.

I liked it when Jason had to use the prompt (couldn't use melee) to break the door down. It opened up interesting bear traps tactics.

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Just now, Caulus said:

You're apologizing for people who aren't good at the game. Play to win. Showing them no mercy forces them to adapt and find tactics that work.

That first sentence is so laughable a statement, I'm not even sure how to respond to it other than saying, "Bullshit."

Secondly, I don't have to play to win. I play to be Jason and emulate the character as best I can in the setting I'm given. For me, that doesn't include multi-trapping. 

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2 minutes ago, Caulus said:

Yes, but realize that it's a video game and that somethings have to be the way they are. Limitations of the medium.

I liked it when Jason had to use the prompt (couldn't use melee) to break the door down. It opened up interesting bear traps tactics.

Completely agree on both counts.

I'm just against the idea that a player must multi-trap the phone or every match will end up 2/8 that seems to be the running theme of so many of these discussions.

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1 minute ago, El Jefe said:

Secondly, I don't have to play to win. I play to be Jason and emulate the character as best I can in the setting I'm given. For me, that doesn't include multi-trapping. 

One of them FINALLY admits it! In his statement he tells us that he wants to play Jason the way he CHOOSES, but throughout the rest of this thread his comments show that he wants to dictate how everyone else plays Jason.

Take notes boys, shitty counselors can play the way they want, whether as a counselor or as Jason. But if things don't go their way for the former, they get the game changed so they can tell you how to play Jason. 

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Just now, El Jefe said:

That first sentence is so laughable a statement, I'm not even sure how to respond to it other than saying, "Bullshit."

Secondly, I don't have to play to win. I play to be Jason and emulate the character as best I can in the setting I'm given. For me, that doesn't include multi-trapping. 

By 'apologizing,' I mean avoiding using a tactic that works. Again, it's a video game. Certain sacrifices to 'reality' must be understood.

As far as double or triple trapping, I have no problem with it. Anyone who does is fighting against player agency. Furthermore, The only Jason who isn't handicapped by triple trapping is j2.

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Just now, El Jefe said:

Completely agree on both counts.

I'm just against the idea that a player must multi-trap the phone or every match will end up 2/8 that seems to be the running theme of so many of these discussions.

Agree 100%

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1 minute ago, dmack621 said:

One of them FINALLY admits it! In his statement he tells us that he wants to play Jason the way he CHOOSES, but throughout the rest of this thread his comments show that he wants to dictate how everyone else plays Jason.

Take notes boys, shitty counselors can play the way they want, whether as a counselor or as Jason. But if things don't go their way for the former, they get the game changed so they can tell you how to play Jason. 

Cute, but no thanks.

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