ZooMalfunction

POLL: Items on maps. Keep or revert?

Items on maps   155 members have voted

  1. 1. Items on maps?

    • Keep
      87
    • Revert
      39
    • Compromise - keep, but change
      29

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195 posts in this topic

Let's get some raw data on public opinion over this change.

I personally hate it. I feel like it turns the game from survival horror to arcade action.

It undermines one of the core mechanics and atmospheric elements of the game in the proximity communication system. Now, rather than having to put effort into working together, counselors have perfect information at all times, and have no need to coordinate or formulate plans.

Jason now has less map information than the counselors, making him less of a threat, and the one having to constantly be vigilant, rather than vice-versa.

Yes, I'm sure a bunch of people are enjoying this change, but don't forget that a very large number of people also enjoyed sitting on Packanack roof for 20 minutes for the free win. They should not be catered to in my opinion. It will also not stop trolls as you can just hold onto items indefinitely.

If the developers must keep it in, there's better ways to do it. Have icons show up only on the minimap, or only have items marked if the carrier had a walkie, or only highlight corpses, not items (my preferred compromise), or make the ability a perk only.

Currently I feel this totally undermines the core USP of the game, and only benefits people who don't care about the long-term health of the game - just getting gifted wins in easy-mode. For those that do care, it ruins the experience for both Jasons AND counselors by robbing the game of any tension.

Rather than a hunter, Jason is now on defence pretty much the whole match.

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You make numerous assumptions and straw men arguments.  For a game to work there must be some balance.  Too many Jason only/jason loving players think a total wipe of the counselors should be the norm.  That is bad game design, bad psychological reinforcement, and led to many of the problems we have been experiencing.  Counselors survived every movie, Jason died in every movie and not because of some convoluted sweater plus stun plus tommy combo.  Horror game?  Sure, but for horror people think they need a chance, else it isn't horror.  It is futile and frustrating. 

Tweaks were needed.

You assume people who want balance also want glitch on packanak roof - false and misleading assumption

You assume people who want balance do not care about long term health - I throw that back at you saying those who want Jason to win 8/8 or 7/8 every time are the ones who do not care as if you play counselor 90% of the time, and it is futile nearly every time, frustrations leads to Apathy then to not playing.  We saw decreasing populations, and counselors leaving numerous times every match.  Symptoms of the problem - and the problem was not the counselors being OP. 

Can they tweak things - sure.  But there were serious issues needing addressing. 

"I feel like it turns the game from survival horror to arcade action. "  The key word is survival.  If there is no hope or reasonable chance for survival there is NO horror.  When someone is hopeless they get resigned, and then apathetic to what is going to happen.  Someone sees light at the end of the tunnel and they get caught/stopped they have an emotional response and/or feel fear of being stopped before escaping. 

 

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Keep.

You know where the dropped items are, but there's no guarantee that you will find or repair it before Jason find you.

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1 hour ago, ZooMalfunction said:

I personally hate it. I feel like it turns the game from survival horror to arcade action.

It undermines one of the core mechanics and atmospheric elements of the game in the proximity communication system. Now, rather than having to put effort into working together, counselors have perfect information at all times, and have no need to coordinate or formulate plans.

The whole idea of this being a strictly "survival horror" game is a misconception. It's not. It's a team-based strategy game, and that's what the design is built on despite its flaws. Thankfully this patch rectified one of them.

Seeing items on the map mainly fixes the later parts of the match where many on the team have presumably died, and a remaining few are desperately searching for objective items. Searching through all the cabins again, looking on the shore, traversing random areas of the map for bodies etc. It's often a pointless exercise and needlessly extends the match, to the degree that all counselors can do is survive till timeout. Even in earlier parts of the match, a lost item can cascade into a lost match where objectives cannot be completed. 

The idea that the previous way encouraged teamwork is actually opposite in reality. Player habits are funny like that. Trying to find lost items on the map was often too futile of a task so players wouldn't attempt it at all. Majority of lobbies also do not communicate which made the task even more difficult. Even organised lobbies with communication did not have a much easier time trying to find a small item on a giant map, and often gave up. So it was actually anti-teamwork. With items now visible, there is more opportunity for players to co-ordinate, or at very least accomplish something on their own.

Atmosphere can exist alongside action, and there was nothing atmospheric about trying to find lost objective items on a map. Only boredom.

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Keep. Though I haven’t actually seen any on the map yet. I’d actually like it if Jason could see them too. Make it even riskier to go grab them. 

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I have only had the game since last week and one of the things i initially thought was how hard it is to find the items left or dropped by the others. I think what they have done is for the better, sometimes players cant always chat on mics etc for whatever reason and teamwork doesnt always workout. I find it tough against jason anyway without having to travel back over the map combing every nook and cranny multiple times in less than 20 minutes, it makes it seem futile. The jasons i played against earlier didnt have any trouble taking people down so it didnt seem to give any massive edge to the councilors, just less frustration.

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Keep.

Keep in mind that on PS4 public matches in my experiences playing for almost the last 3 months there is practically no communication, teamwork, etc. Public matches almost always immediately turn in to every person for themselves, nobody using a mic, and trying to communicate via clicking their flashlight in the middle of the woods.

As I've mentioned in a few other threads, people say this along with the trap and grab change turned the game into 'easy mode' for the counselors. Whoever is selected to be Jason has been on 'easy mode' since launch.

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On 10/26/2017 at 11:00 AM, hu_soldier13 said:

Keep in mind that on PS4 public matches in my experiences playing for almost the last 3 months there is practically no communication, teamwork, etc. Public matches almost always immediately turn in to every person for themselves, nobody using a mic, and trying to communicate via clicking their flashlight in the middle of the woods.

This! This was a great change. The game was so frustrating before because people would go out in the woods holding parts and die. This change was needed. Make it an option in private matches though. ?

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Keep. One of my favorite new additions to the latest patch.  Good counselors shouldn't have to suffer against good Jason's because bad counselors died in the woods with objective parts. Like stated above, there is no guarantee you will get to those parts let alone install them AND escape.  At least now we have a punchers chance.  Oh! And let's not forget about my favorite- those selfish bastards who run gas and battery for the two seater across the map to put in the four seater!  Hopefully this new mechanic will curb some of that.

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On 10/26/2017 at 11:50 AM, Ker Juice said:

Keep. One of my favorite new additions to the latest patch.  Good counselors shouldn't have to suffer to good Jason's because bad counselors died in the woods with objective parts. 

Don't forget about the trolls that would hide parts in the woods. ?

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dropped the fuse next to the phone box and a lachappa player ran across the map to come fix it. I think items on the map will help promote team effort

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2 hours ago, va_ghost said:

You make numerous assumptions and straw men arguments.  For a game to work there must be some balance.  Too many Jason only/jason loving players think a total wipe of the counselors should be the norm.  That is bad game design, bad psychological reinforcement, and led to many of the problems we have been experiencing.  Counselors survived every movie, Jason died in every movie and not because of some convoluted sweater plus stun plus tommy combo.  Horror game?  Sure, but for horror people think they need a chance, else it isn't horror.  It is futile and frustrating. 

Tweaks were needed.

You assume people who want balance also want glitch on packanak roof - false and misleading assumption

You assume people who want balance do not care about long term health - I throw that back at you saying those who want Jason to win 8/8 or 7/8 every time are the ones who do not care as if you play counselor 90% of the time, and it is futile nearly every time, frustrations leads to Apathy then to not playing.  We saw decreasing populations, and counselors leaving numerous times every match.  Symptoms of the problem - and the problem was not the counselors being OP. 

Can they tweak things - sure.  But there were serious issues needing addressing. 

"I feel like it turns the game from survival horror to arcade action. "  The key word is survival.  If there is no hope or reasonable chance for survival there is NO horror.  When someone is hopeless they get resigned, apathetic to what is going to happen.  Someone sees light at the end of the tunnel and they get caught/stopped the have an emotional response. 

 

Perfectly stated.

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First off, the items are not being shown on the map at all times. They have to be found, picked up, then dropped before they register on the map. This was a response to people hording the items for themselves and making it hard for others. I actually walked in on two people doing this with gas on the Jarvis House map. They'd brought both to a single cabin (both of them A.J. btw) and dropped both canisters on the floor as I was entering. So, keep the item location. It's not like we always have time to look at the map anyways.

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I think having dropped items on the map is great. I played half a dozen matches last night and even though it gave counselors an edge, it still felt that Jason had the upper hand. Jason had at least 5 - 8 kills each round. 

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Good for public, have a toggle switch for private matches. 

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I think the change will also be good for catching onto Jason helpers who lock themselves in bathrooms with car parts and the fuse, which I’ve seen a lot of.

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6 minutes ago, Maddogg_8121 said:

Good for public, have a toggle switch for private matches. 

Any option should have the ability to be toggled in Private Matches. Everything down to the number of pocket knives on the map, etc...Should even be able to select 2-seater/Boat option.

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1 hour ago, Ker Juice said:

Keep. One of my favorite new additions to the latest patch.  Good counselors shouldn't have to suffer against good Jason's because bad counselors died in the woods with objective parts. Like stated above, there is no guarantee you will get to those parts let alone install them AND escape.  At least now we have a punchers chance.  Oh! And let's not forget about my favorite- those selfish bastards who run gas and battery for the two seater across the map to put in the four seater!  Hopefully this new mechanic will curb some of that.

Actually good counselors should absolutely suffer because someone died in the middle of nowhere with a part. Communicate better. Simple as that.

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Keep, but maybe make it so that the items don't appear on the map until they've been dropped for around a minute. Either way I don't really care, it's a positive change. The game was impossible to win when people didn't have mics or wouldn't communicate where they had stashed things.

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I think this change is horrible. And I can't help but think a little less of any player that actually thinks this is a good idea. Jason should be hard to escape. Communication is paramount in terms of surviving. This change lowers the need to communicate effectively. Other than simply making the game easier for counselors, I don't see why anyone would think this is a reasonable addition to the game. And this game sure as hell didn't need to get easier for me I can tell you that.

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Just now, MichaelMemers said:

Keep, but maybe make it so that the items don't appear on the map until they've been dropped for around a minute. Either way I don't really care, it's a positive change. The game was impossible to win when people didn't have mics or wouldn't communicate where they had stashed things.

Then get/play with people with mics.

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Definitely keep. If a part drops somewhere in the forest where you never come, the chance of surviving decreases a lot. This helps against trollers as well.

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3 minutes ago, malloymk said:

Then get/play with people with mics.

I'm not going to exclusively play private matches.

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1 minute ago, MichaelMemers said:

I'm not going to exclusively play private matches.

Use the emotes then. That's technically what they were made for in the first place.

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