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3 hours ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

1. The previous/original trap system was just wrong because in some map configurations, Jason could drop 4 traps at the phone, or one of the vehicles, then just take turns morphing/swimming between the other two objectives and clean house easy peasy. I'm all for difficulty in a game but that's just a cheap method of objective denial. If players in Halo or Call of Duty could start the match with 3-7 landmines to protect their flag, and they could place them in such a way that there's no way to get the flag without setting them off, it would be one of the most obnoxious gametypes to play.

2. Limiting Jason's grab was necessary because the old grab was overly long. It was deceptive. From Jason's perspective(i.e. "forced perspective," see my thread about it) it looked fine but from everyone else's perspective they could see just how absurdly long and ridiculous it was. They should tweak the width of the grab cone closest to Jason but the length is currently just fine.

I'm just going to start by saying comparing a FPS game of capture the flag where there is only one objective to protect to F13 where there are three is not the same thing.  As far as Jason using his traps as "cheap objective denial" that's not accurate, using them as objective denial absolutely, because that's what the traps are for.  Playing as a counselor I prefer Jason to use all of his traps on one objective I see that and I say to myself "this is a weak Jason and I'm going to survive".  It's a poor strategy that leaves two win cons wide open.  As far as morphing/swimming back and forth to "clean house easy peasy" I've never seen any Jason do that, not once.  The only Jason who could potentially do that is part 2 because of his +morph.  I have seen part 2 Jason pulled between the boat and the car or the 2 seater/4 seater and try to morph back and forth to protect them and fail miserably at it.  The reason they failed, because they placed all their traps on the phone and my friends and I communicate and are able to alert one another "hey he's chasing me at the 2 seater start fixing the 4 seater" and of course once he morphs to the 4 seater my friends run away and let me know where Jason is and I start fixing the 2 seater.  And he try's to protect them both but can't because even with his +morph the cool down is still long enough to give us time to fix the cars/boat and people always escape...always.  You use team work and communication to survive and win.  Sometimes some people have to die so that others can escape but that's how it should be not wait for the developers to nurf Jason so much it makes surviving a cake walk.  And as far as swimming between the objectives to protect them that just wouldn't work.  Even with 7/8 Jason that's too much ground to cover on any map and if you've seen it or done it then the counselors you played with or against weren't very good.  So to sum it up all traps at one location is bad for Jason good for counselors and I stand by what I said it was a change that was made just to make the game easier for counselors and did not need to be made.

As far as Jason's grab is concerned I'll give you that yes there were times when Jason's grab seemed too long and he could grab a counselor that was clearly out of his reach.  I'll give you that.  But let me be clear on what I mean when I say it was an unnecessary change.  Jason did not always grab counselors who were well out of his reach, did it happen, yes, sometimes.  However, more often than not the counselors were well with in Jason's grab range and it was fair that they got grabbed.  Compared to now for example, earlier today I was playing and had a counselor running away from me when I was Jason their stamina ran out with no where to hide and it took four grab attempts, FOUR, and they were right in front of me, unexceptable.  Another game I had a counselor backed into a corner with no where to run again right in front of me go to grab Jason's arm went right through them no grab, they run away.  I've seen this so many times since the patch counselors right in front of Jason go to grab and come up empty, unexceptable.  Performing a shift/grab has also become so challenging it's almost not worth attempting and this was arguably Jason's best weapon.  I understand what you mean by forced perspective and how it appears different when viewing the game as Jason or as a counselor.  I've seen Jason grab people from ridiculous distances but it wasn't so frequent that it broke the game or made it impossible to survive Jason.  OK so from time to time Jason would get a cheap grab on you I agree, but fair grabs occurred far more than cheap ones and that's way better than where we are now.  The change was unnecessary it's wasn't so bad it HAD to be made.  

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4 hours ago, NickZ3 said:

I'm just going to start by saying comparing a FPS game of capture the flag where there is only one objective to protect to F13 where there are three is not the same thing.  As far as Jason using his traps as "cheap objective denial" that's not accurate, using them as objective denial absolutely, because that's what the traps are for.

I didn't say traps period were cheap, I said stacking a bunch at one was cheap. If you put 3 or 4 on one objective then you never have to go back to that one at all because it guarantees someone will have to step in it. Sometimes both the car and the boat or both cars will spawn in places that make it very easy to patrol both of them. For example on Higgins if the car is at stillwater and the boat at the south of blair's, then you could trap the phone all you like because you can see in line of sight, not even using sense, if someone is at one of the vehicles. Swim over to one, kill, then morph back to the other before the others come back. I've seen this happen plenty of times. This kind of map configuration is less common on the other maps but it can still happen.

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8 hours ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

1. The previous/original trap system was just wrong because in some map configurations, Jason could drop 4 traps at the phone, or one of the vehicles, then just take turns morphing/swimming between the other two objectives and clean house easy peasy. I'm all for difficulty in a game but that's just a cheap method of objective denial. If players in Halo or Call of Duty could start the match with 3-7 landmines to protect their flag, and they could place them in such a way that there's no way to get the flag without setting them off, it would be one of the most obnoxious gametypes to play.

2. Limiting Jason's grab was necessary because the old grab was overly long. It was deceptive. From Jason's perspective(i.e. "forced perspective," see my thread about it) it looked fine but from everyone else's perspective they could see just how absurdly long and ridiculous it was. They should tweak the width of the grab cone closest to Jason but the length is currently just fine.

if traps are gonna stay the same then trap disarming system has to change to a mini game and the grab was never much of problem for me the way it was not hard to avoid so the grab has to be reverted

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13 minutes ago, pioneer67fkd said:

if traps are gonna stay the same then trap disarming system has to change to a mini game and the grab was never much of problem for me the way it was not hard to avoid so the grab has to be reverted

The only way for people to know the length of Jason's original grab was to fall victim to it over an over again. It was deceptive. You see a 10-foot distance between you and him and you think "I'm fine from here." And then you get grabbed and you're dead. It was not fun to play against at all.

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33 minutes ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

The only way for people to know the length of Jason's original grab was to fall victim to it over an over again. It was deceptive. You see a 10-foot distance between you and him and you think "I'm fine from here." And then you get grabbed and you're dead. It was not fun to play against at all.

that ten foot distance thing is a myth and yes i have seen higgins grab test that carpet is no where near ten feet long its only about 6 feet long which perfect range for someone who is 6'4 which is how tall jason is

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Just now, pioneer67fkd said:

that ten foot distance thing is a myth and yes i have seen higgins grab test that carpet is no where near ten feet long its only about 6 feet long which perfect range for someone who is 6'4 which is how tall jason is

Obviously I was using hyperbole. Jason's grab range made no sense because he does not step forward when grabbing. The animation did not match the actual grab. If you swipe your hand in front of you without stepping forward, you can't grab something as far away as you are tall.

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6 hours ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

I didn't say traps period were cheap, I said stacking a bunch at one was cheap. If you put 3 or 4 on one objective then you never have to go back to that one at all because it guarantees someone will have to step in it. Sometimes both the car and the boat or both cars will spawn in places that make it very easy to patrol both of them. For example on Higgins if the car is at stillwater and the boat at the south of blair's, then you could trap the phone all you like because you can see in line of sight, not even using sense, if someone is at one of the vehicles. Swim over to one, kill, then morph back to the other before the others come back. I've seen this happen plenty of times. This kind of map configuration is less common on the other maps but it can still happen.

Traps are never and have never been cheap the purpose of them is to keep counselors from accessing which ever win con Jason wants.  If Jason wants to use most or all of his traps on one that should be up to the person playing as Jason.  As far as the morph/swimming strategy goes in the scenario you use the only way it would work is if the counselors showed up one at a time, ignored all the signs that Jason was near like the music change or the screen twitching, had no pocket knives or fires crackers to protect themselves and were very bad at avoiding Jason.  Avoiding Jason before this patch wasn't that difficult and after the patch has become extremely easy.  Basically what I'm saying is if you've seen this work "plenty of times" then the people you play with don't communicate and work together and straight up aren't very good.  This strategy of morphing/swimming is easy to beat with team work and communication I've never seen it work and I'm sure I never will.  

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2 hours ago, NickZ3 said:

Traps are never and have never been cheap the purpose of them is to keep counselors from accessing which ever win con Jason wants.

What did I just say?

9 hours ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

I didn't say traps period were cheap, I said stacking a bunch at one was cheap.

 

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2 hours ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

What did I just say?

 

You said stacking a bunch of traps on one objective was  "a cheap method of objective denial".  Those are your exact words to which I say no a person playing as Jason should be able to use their traps however they want.  Stacking all of your traps at one objective is not cheap it's just a bad strategy (I've already explained why) when there are three objectives to protect.  Fixing a trap system that was never broken just to make the game easier for people who see three traps on the phone and say "that's not fair" was a mistake.  I stand by what I said in my original post that many of these changes were unnesessary and made just to make the game easier for counselors.  If anything the game is now broken in favor of the counselors.  

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1 minute ago, NickZ3 said:

You said stacking a bunch of traps on one objective was  "a cheap method of objective denial".  Those are your exact words to which I say no a person playing as Jason should be able to use their traps however they want.  Stacking all of your traps at one objective is not cheap it's just a bad strategy (I've already explained why) when there are three objectives to protect.  Fixing a trap system that was never broken just to make the game easier for people who see three traps on the phone and say "that's not fair" was a mistake.  I stand by what I said in my original post that many of these changes were unnesessary and made just to make the game easier for counselors.  If anything the game is now broken in favor of the counselors.  

There were certain RNG configurations that just screwed over the counselors when combined with trap stacking and objective camping. Jason should get buffs in other areas to make up for the trap nerf. The trap nerf is fine, it's the lack of other types of buffs that hurt him most. Small stuff that add up when looking at the big picture.

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1 hour ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

There were certain RNG configurations that just screwed over the counselors when combined with trap stacking and objective camping. Jason should get buffs in other areas to make up for the trap nerf. The trap nerf is fine, it's the lack of other types of buffs that hurt him most. Small stuff that add up when looking at the big picture.

There was never anything in this game that screwed over the counselors trap stacking was never a problem and "objective camping" isn't even a thing (again I've already explained why).  Surviving Jason before this patch was not that difficult I maxed out all my badges both as Jason and counselor long before this patch, which include escaping by cop, boat, car and surviving the night so that's what...over 400 escape if you just count the badges, not that hard.  This patch broke the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" rule.  If Jason stacked traps at one objective work on one of the other two.  The trap nerf broke this game making double trapping next to impossible and has made calling the cops way too easy and with Tommy Jarvis OP plus the grab nerf has made escaping in general too easy for counselors.  Jason doesn't need new or more buffs he just needs to be reverted back to the way he was at launch he's wasn't broke and didn't need fixing.  

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On 10/25/2017 at 3:57 PM, [IllFonic]Courier said:

Counselors are now able to check their map to find the location of Repair Parts that have been dropped

What do you think about making the dropped parts visible ONLY on counselors mini map? The mini map has a pretty good radius and still makes the hunt for dropped parts a bit more challenging?

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5 hours ago, NickZ3 said:

Jason doesn't need new or more buffs he just needs to be reverted back to the way he was at launch he's wasn't broke and didn't need fixing.  

I'm sorry you feel that way but you're incorrect. The old system was just imbalanced in the wrong kind of way.

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The items showing up on counselor maps really doesn't bother me too much, nor does the grab being tweaked. You know what DOES bother me? The fact that the Devs decided to pull that stupid fucking "trap distance" bullshit.

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11 minutes ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

I'm sorry you feel that way but you're incorrect. The old system was just imbalanced in the wrong kind of way.

Problem is also the new system is imbalanced in the wrong kind of way

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13 hours ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

I'm sorry you feel that way but you're incorrect. The old system was just imbalanced in the wrong kind of way.

I'm sorry the game was too hard for you the way it was and you think the game being unbalanced in favor of the counselors is correct.  I have news for you...it's not.  The game is supposed to be unbalanced in favor of Jason (once again I've already explained why) this patch nerfing Jason and giving the counselors the clear advantage was a big mistake.  If I was the only person who thought this it would be one thing, but the larger portion of people seem to have a problem with this patch one way or another.  The game is too easy for counselors and that is just wrong.

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1 hour ago, NickZ3 said:

I'm sorry the game was too hard for you the way it was and you think the game being unbalanced in favor of the counselors is correct.  I have news for you...it's not.  The game is supposed to be unbalanced in favor of Jason (once again I've already explained why) this patch nerfing Jason and giving the counselors the clear advantage was a big mistake.  If I was the only person who thought this it would be one thing, but the larger portion of people seem to have a problem with this patch one way or another.  The game is too easy for counselors and that is just wrong.

I'm not saying Jason should not get other kinds of buffs. I'm not saying the current balance of the game should stay. I'm saying what was nerfed had to be nerfed. Now it's time to give him other more appropriate kinds of buffs.

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4 hours ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

I'm not saying Jason should not get other kinds of buffs. I'm not saying the current balance of the game should stay. I'm saying what was nerfed had to be nerfed. Now it's time to give him other more appropriate kinds of buffs.

Wrong again, let's go over things that HAD to be fixed in this game.  Counselors being able to get to places Jason could not access like the roof of a cabin or just walking off the map, that HAD to be fixed.  Let's go over things that have to be fixed that haven't, counselors being able to hit Jason through doors, walls and windows before they've been broken that's a problem.  Especially when people are trying to kill Jason or time him out.  It allows you to attack Jason from basically 100% safety, this has to be fixed.  

Now what didn't have to be fixed.  Jason placing more than one trap on any objective why, because it wasn't a problem.  Two or more traps on any objective is not a problem.  Especially when there are pockets knives, health sprays, perks that allow you to use health sprays more than once.  Perks that let you take more damage so you can step in multiple traps without taking serious damage.  Perks that let you escape from traps faster and you can use many of these perks together, you have three slots.  There are many ways to beat people who multi trap as Jason, it was never a problem, it didn't need to be fixed.  Jason's grab at times was a bit much but as I said before not so bad it broke the game and HAD to be fixed.  Now it's so bad it has to be fixed, I've seen Jason miss grabs where his arm literally goes right through the counselor.  So we go from sometimes Jason gets a cheap grab to Jason misses easy grabs multiple times every match...and the old way was broken?  

The only things that HAD to be fixed were the major bugs, glitches and exploits which most of them have been fixed.  But peoples games are still crashing, there are still some connection issues and part 7 Jason is still garbage, and you say these changes HAD to be made?  You're wrong, you're wrong 100 times over, these changes were made just to make the game easier for counselors, not because Jason needed to be nerfed.  New advantages for Jason will just give poor players something new to complain about until they nerf Jason again.  This patch has set a precedent showing anytime Jason has the upper hand he'll be nerfed.  When he never HAD to be nerfed in the first place.  

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Just now, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

@NickZ3 Agree to disagree. If you like absurdly long grabs that's fine, but perhaps you should find a game that should rightfully have them.

Fine agree to disagree.  If you like games where daddy needs to hold your hand so you can win you should go find one.

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1 hour ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

You need to actually pay attention to what I'm saying.

I did, multi trapping was cheap, Jason's grab was too much that's the short version of what you've been saying.  You need to learn how to properly rebut people, I've explained multiple ways to beat multi trapping and explained why Jason's new grab is more broken than the old and you just keep repeating yourself instead of explaining why I'm wrong (cause I'm not).  Saying the developers had to fix these things is saying "daddy hold my hand".  So I've done a great job of listing it's just unfortunate the devs listined to you too much and we're where we are now.   

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On 11/8/2017 at 2:23 AM, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

@NickZ3 Agree to disagree. If you like absurdly long grabs that's fine, but perhaps you should find a game that should rightfully have them.

Is there a fantastic 4 game? I didn't even know...

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On 11/8/2017 at 2:44 AM, NickZ3 said:

I did, multi trapping was cheap, Jason's grab was too much that's the short version of what you've been saying.  You need to learn how to properly rebut people, I've explained multiple ways to beat multi trapping and explained why Jason's new grab is more broken than the old and you just keep repeating yourself instead of explaining why I'm wrong (cause I'm not).  Saying the developers had to fix these things is saying "daddy hold my hand".  So I've done a great job of listing it's just unfortunate the devs listined to you too much and we're where we are now.   

You're an idiot. I didn't say the new grab was perfect. It needs work, mostly with width. It should never be longer again. Your argument's focus is "if you don't agree with me you're a pussy." Now promptly fuck off.

EDIT: Obviously I'm using hyperbole in regards to your argument.

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