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AldermachXI

Revamping The Progression System

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So we were having a discussion in the outer realm last night, and I brought up an idea that the other guys suggested I post here: A complete revamp of the progression system.

So the idea starts with completely scrapping the current progression system and starting everyone from scratch. No need to reset Levels. But all perks would be removed, as would the useless perk rolling system.

Instead, perks would be arranged in a progression tree. So you start by selecting a "base" perk, then you would upgrade said perks by completing assignments (which are currently tied to badges).

For example:

- Heavy Hitter would require "X" amount of Jason stuns in order to level up to uncommon, rare, epic, new max level

- Grease Monkey would level up with "X" amount of repairs/car starts

- Run "X" amount of miles to level up Marathon

And so on...The requirements for leveling up a perk would be relative to said perk. This helps create more of a play style for players/counselors and add the replay value and some form of real progression people have been begging for.

I also suggested adding new skills for counselors, which would be unlocked when you max out a certain perk's progress (i.e. A skill to disable traps with any weapon for maxed out Tinker, maxed out Grease Monkey could allow the counselor to hotwire the car - no keys needed but takes longer to start, etc)

I also think some sort of stat screen would be nice at this point. I realize the game isn't competitive. But I just want to see things like Escape Ratios for each of my counselors, Jason Kill %, Number of Escapes with each method, etc...Just something that highlights all that sort of info. No need for leaderboards or whatever. Just a stat screen for personal reference.

I think this is the key for longevity for the game. Maxing out new perks would also require players to go outside of their comfort zone and use different perks than usual, and the process of leveling up would require them to complete assignments they may not be used to doing...All good for replay value.

I realize this is a tall order considering many of the perks don't even work correctly a lot of the time (still don't know the status of a few). But I think a system that requires the player to complete something in order to level up perks is a lot better than the random perk rolling system we have now.

Hopefully Gun can put some consideration into this and even provide their thoughts on it. I think it's the next step for this game. If there was ever a sequel, they would have to do it this way.

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Unique idea, I like it and I think the game definitely needs something like this. Progression system in any game is vital to its longevity, and it's sorely missing from F13 for the most part. Past a certain point there's nothing but clothes unlockables. That is nowhere near enough incentive. 

The entire perk system being based on randomness just frustrates players and is lazy in design. Nothing worse than being high level and getting a useless +1% perk. The game should reward players for their time and skill in meaningful ways, and provide something for them to progress towards. So your idea here ticks all the boxes, most creative one I've seen actually. Good work.

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This is a fantastic idea and would up the replay value of the game tremendously. I have also wanted a stat screen for personal reference for some time myself. The progress tracker for the badges simply doesn't give you the full picture of how well you have played the game overall. I like seeing my hours of progress going towards stuff I want and for the longevity of this game, I think @GunMediashould seriously consider implementing something like this.

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This is a very good idea. It would create incentive to play in different ways outside of a comfort zone and would add the feeling of meaningful progress to customization of a favorite counselor. The randomness of Perks as they are now means that a tremendous amount of CP is thrown away just hoping to get something useful to your playstyle.

I would like, but I'm out.

LIKED.:wub:

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A complete top to bottom revamp of the progression system needs to happen to keep people playing. Once you unlock the last Jason there's not much incentive to continue on unless you just want reskins that bad. Which I'm sure many don't.

DbD is an example of progression done right. It's addictive and there's always something to unlock that can give you an advantage for the next round.

With f13 it's a slot machine gamble for perks, and 99% of the time you'll get something crappy. Not to mention some of the best perks have turned into the worst perks.

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I definitely like the idea. I just think at this point they've gone too far to change it completely. Not that they shouldn't, it would just piss off everyone that's gotten the perks they want with hundreds of hours of gameplay. This is how they should've started it. But resetting my perks? I can't agree with that one unfortunately. Great idea though!

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I would love this idea.

I wouldn't mind my perks being reset, as it would allow me to start fresh and play the game as I want to play it.

I really hope Gun will consider something like this.

This game is so close to being perfect, but the perks/progression system is very weak.

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16 minutes ago, Truth said:

I definitely like the idea. I just think at this point they've gone too far to change it completely. Not that they shouldn't, it would just piss off everyone that's gotten the perks they want with hundreds of hours of gameplay. This is how they should've started it. But resetting my perks? I can't agree with that one unfortunately. Great idea though!

If people really wanted to keep what they have, I see no reason why they couldn't make it an optional reset for those who would like to earn/level up perks under the new progression system. The perks people already have could be grandfathered in to the new system - you could then attempt to max out your Epic ones and earn their Special Ability.

They could either call it a "Season 2" or "Year 2" like many games do, while adding new content. Ideally they would call it "Part 2" for this franchise. But I digress...Point is, a revamp of core systems isn't unheard of in today's game. Rainbow Six Siege has undergone this several times. It's what they do instead of releasing a new game.

Do I have my doubts that Gun could pull this off? Absolutely.

That doesn't mean I and I'm sure many people wouldn't like to see them do it. I've gotten to the point that perks are basically inconsequential to me because they have no effect on the way I play. It would be nice to have things to complete in order to earn/level up perks instead of pissing away CP at random for things you'll sell 95% of the time.

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1 minute ago, AldermachXI said:

If people really wanted to keep what they have, I see no reason why they couldn't make it an optional reset for those who would like to earn/level up perks under the new progression system. The perks people already have could be grandfathered in to the new system - you could then attempt to max out your Epic ones and earn their Special Ability.

That works for me.

Like I said, it's a great idea. I just wouldn't want to lose the good perks that I've been lucky enough to roll. Think about how much cp you wasted on all those. I'd be pissed as hell if all of a sudden they took away all my perks and I had to start from scratch. Especially since I'm almost out of levels for the boosted cp. It would take forever to get enough cp to get back to where I currently am with my perks.

If they gave us a way to keep the good ones or at least replace the cp I used to get them, I'd be happy.

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I love this idea! 

It could be part of a prestige. After level 101 you have the option to reset and restart with this new system. 

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15 minutes ago, A.J. Mason said:

I love this idea! 

It could be part of a prestige. After level 101 you have the option to reset and restart with this new system. 

That would be one way of doing it so as not to upset those who have been doing a ton of perk rolls. Somehow, I think that it may be just better to start from scratch, but that would also probably upset people.

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7 hours ago, AldermachXI said:

So we were having a discussion in the outer realm last night, and I brought up an idea that the other guys suggested I post here: A complete revamp of the progression system.

So the idea starts with completely scrapping the current progression system and starting everyone from scratch. No need to reset Levels. But all perks would be removed, as would the useless perk rolling system.

Instead, perks would be arranged in a progression tree. So you start by selecting a "base" perk, then you would upgrade said perks by completing assignments (which are currently tied to badges).

For example:

- Heavy Hitter would require "X" amount of Jason stuns in order to level up to uncommon, rare, epic, new max level

- Grease Monkey would level up with "X" amount of repairs/car starts

- Run "X" amount of miles to level up Marathon

And so on...The requirements for leveling up a perk would be relative to said perk. This helps create more of a play style for players/counselors and add the replay value and some form of real progression people have been begging for.

I also suggested adding new skills for counselors, which would be unlocked when you max out a certain perk's progress (i.e. A skill to disable traps with any weapon for maxed out Tinker, maxed out Grease Monkey could allow the counselor to hotwire the car - no keys needed but takes longer to start, etc)

I also think some sort of stat screen would be nice at this point. I realize the game isn't competitive. But I just want to see things like Escape Ratios for each of my counselors, Jason Kill %, Number of Escapes with each method, etc...Just something that highlights all that sort of info. No need for leaderboards or whatever. Just a stat screen for personal reference.

I think this is the key for longevity for the game. Maxing out new perks would also require players to go outside of their comfort zone and use different perks than usual, and the process of leveling up would require them to complete assignments they may not be used to doing...All good for replay value.

I realize this is a tall order considering many of the perks don't even work correctly a lot of the time (still don't know the status of a few). But I think a system that requires the player to complete something in order to level up perks is a lot better than the random perk rolling system we have now.

Hopefully Gun can put some consideration into this and even provide their thoughts on it. I think it's the next step for this game. If there was ever a sequel, they would have to do it this way.

Great idea, assuming it can be retroactive in counting all the work already done.

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It seems to me that this wouldn't change anything in the long run. Eventually you'll still run into the ceiling and "there will be no reason to play any more. Are they supposed to change it every time people are at that ceiling? I do like the sound of this system, but it really solves nothing in the long run. Every leveling/progression system has a ceiling, but you're supposed to like the game enough to continue to play anyway. Even DbD's system only has so much progression and the ranking system is useless since all perks carry over at reset. Your idea would be good for a new game, but pointless to implement now.

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Although your idea is pretty great because Random rolls are just dumb and you get perks that you never use, @DEATH is right. You'll still run into a ceiling when you max everything out.
I'm not the most amazing person at this game, but I am to a point to where the perks are just negligible. I could go with a completely empty perk set and have the same odds of survival. Majority of survival is skill based and nothing to do with perks. The downside is that they can never really give the perks any substantial use because then the forum would flood with complaints that Jason is under-powered. 
I love this game and I just try to personally challenge myself by not jumping in a car that is fixed if the other one is there or I can call the cops or don't escape by cops if there is still a car. Basically I just try to take the hardest possible way out.

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15 minutes ago, DEATH said:

It seems to me that this wouldn't change anything in the long run. Eventually you'll still run into the ceiling

All in all it's a better system for obtaining perks. Right now 95% of the time you get shit that's worse than what you have. At least this way you are guaranteed a better perk in the end. Plus you would have to work at each "skill" in order to increase the effectiveness of the perk, allowing you to have something to work towards instead of just blindly rolling for a random new (junk) perk.

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16 minutes ago, DEATH said:

It seems to me that this wouldn't change anything in the long run. Eventually you'll still run into the ceiling and "there will be no reason to play any more. Are they supposed to change it every time people are at that ceiling? I do like the sound of this system, but it really solves nothing in the long run. Every leveling/progression system has a ceiling, but you're supposed to like the game enough to continue to play anyway. Even DbD's system only has so much progression and the ranking system is useless since all perks carry over at reset. Your idea would be good for a new game, but pointless to implement now.

What I get from this is that regardless of the improvements that could be made, you don't like the game enough to play it anyway, so don't bother. Usually after that kind of downplay there is a follow on statement that I"m moving on to play other things.:unsure: You've noted that all progression games eventually have a ceiling. I agree. All games eventually die out. It is the stream of improvements and content that keep them alive and viable. If there is no point in improving things once you reach level cap, why bother to play at all? You are placing an artificial termination date on the game.:blink:

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To counter the ceiling, they could easily implement a "Prestige" style system. Reset whenever you want and complete all Perk Challenges in order the level them up again. They could even use Friday the 13th style numerals to indicate which level of that a player is on.

Also, with the system I'm suggesting, each character would have their own progression. So you could pick and choose which perks are worth leveling up for each character. Some characters would automatically be better suited to complete some challenges over others - For example, you'd be more likely to level up Stun Perks with a character like Buggzy since he's more capable of stunning Jason. Leveling up Stun Perks would be a lot more difficult with characters like AJ or Debra Kim. You could obviously still do it. But it would be more difficult to complete the challenges with some characters, obviously. It would add an extra challenge to unlock each perk's Special Ability with all characters.

 

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4 hours ago, lHeartBreakerl said:

A complete top to bottom revamp of the progression system needs to happen to keep people playing. Once you unlock the last Jason there's not much incentive to continue on unless you just want reskins that bad. Which I'm sure many don't.

DbD is an example of progression done right. It's addictive and there's always something to unlock that can give you an advantage for the next round.

With f13 it's a slot machine gamble for perks, and 99% of the time you'll get something crappy. Not to mention some of the best perks have turned into the worst perks.

I wouldn't be surprised if the differences in progression systems is the main reason DbD has 10 times or more the playerbase on PC.

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25 minutes ago, MichaelMemers said:

I wouldn't be surprised if the differences in progression systems is the main reason DbD has 10 times or more the playerbase on PC.

It's the reason I've been playing more and more DbD. There's just not that much incentive to keep playing F13 unless it's with a good group of friends.

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34 minutes ago, MichaelMemers said:

I wouldn't be surprised if the differences in progression systems is the main reason DbD has 10 times or more the playerbase on PC.

I wouldn't be surprised. F13 has more variation in terms of objectives and whatnot, but DbD has the customization aspect down. People love their bells and whistles. Something like what @AldermachXI suggested would probably go a long way towards stabilizing and growing the player base.

I know I'd be fine if you took away my Perks and reset everything regarding them to initiate a new system. I don't actually need Perks to play effectively, which somebody else already noted, and I agree with. Most Perks are not significant enough, in regards to benefit, to be used; or their benefit is so small as to be negligible.

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6 minutes ago, Alkavian said:

I wouldn't be surprised. F13 has more variation in terms of objectives and whatnot, but DbD has the customization aspect down. People love their bells and whistles. Something like what @AldermachXI suggested would probably go a long way towards stabilizing and growing the player base.

I know I'd be fine if you took away my Perks and reset everything regarding them to initiate a new system. I don't actually need Perks to play effectively, which somebody else already noted, and I agree with. Most Perks are not significant enough, in regards to benefit, to be used; or their benefit is so small as to be negligible.

Most perks, yes, but plenty are gamechanging. Medic gives you two heals per spray and thick skin lets you take an additional knife or trap before you become crippled.Swift Attacker makes fighting Jason much easier. My Dad's A Cop makes the police escape downright overpowered.

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1 hour ago, MichaelMemers said:

Most perks, yes, but plenty are gamechanging. Medic gives you two heals per spray and thick skin lets you take an additional knife or trap before you become crippled.Swift Attacker makes fighting Jason much easier. My Dad's A Cop makes the police escape downright overpowered.

Yep. But I can handle scrapping and starting over. All I'd have to do is work those up again, and I see a lot of fun with that. It's a lot better than rolling for perks at 500 CP a pop and getting a lesser valued perk that you already have over and over until you finally get something you want.

 

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9 minutes ago, AldermachXI said:

Yep. But I can handle scrapping and starting over. All I'd have to do is work those up again, and I see a lot of fun with that. It's a lot better than rolling for perks at 500 CP a pop and getting a lesser valued perk that you already have over and over until you finally get something you want.

 

Well, I highly doubt they'd throw the current system out the window and introduce a completely new leveling system. At the most they'd add another way to get perks besides the slot machine. Which I'd be fine with, as the slot machine sucks.

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I really like how this idea actually works, Example, Dead by Daylight. The current perk-progression system is completely luck based, and you could get a terrible roll. With DbD Blood Web, you can choose what you want, for a price of getting another perk on the screen removed. 

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8 hours ago, Truth said:

I definitely like the idea. I just think at this point they've gone too far to change it completely. Not that they shouldn't, it would just piss off everyone that's gotten the perks they want with hundreds of hours of gameplay. This is how they should've started it. But resetting my perks? I can't agree with that one unfortunately. Great idea though!

Agreed! I finally have Epic in all of my favorite perks. I don't want my perks reset. ?

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