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Theiceman105

The Exact Reasons to Nerf Jason's Grab

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Let me get started with saying grab should be for one counselor only and not for groups.

Jason's weapon is meant to take out groups, not grabs.

These are the reasons his grabs need a nerf.

1.) Can take out groups of 3+

-Meant for only 1 counselor, not entire groups

2.) The range and cone area

Ridiculously high, even allows grabbing through some walls(with cone) if you position Jason correctly.

3.) No skill

Because headpunch spamming is so "skillful"

4.) Almost No counters

You may be like: "There's plenty of counters jackass" but, the hit detection prevents you from hitting people free, and pocket knives are too rare, hoarded by useless Tiffany and Vanessa characters.

5.) Would encourage teamwork 

Enough said, let's get people willing to use a knife on a trap.

Did I miss any reasons? I know I made a thread about "How it would benefit the game" but these are the reasons they should be nerfed.

 

Edit: 4/28/18 Grab is fine now and this shit is old

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1:- If you are a really bad group,yes.It is extremely hard to grab kill a group if they are sticking with each other.

2:The range I agree with but I don't see an issue with the cone detection.

3:Well,ofcourse there shouldn't be any skill when playing as Jason,it's freaking Jason! And it's not like Counsellors require a lot of skill to play its the same "jog but Sprint when he uses shift" That's the whole point of the game,anyone can jump in and enjoy, you don't need crazy reflexes or MLG skills to do good.

4:There's not many counters to it but it makes sense as it is already hard enough to grab a fast and skilled running Counsellor,if you get grabbed YOU SHOULD DIE yes the hit detection is broken but I can see them fixing it soon so hopefully that won't be an issue.

5 No it wouldn't,people would still choose to play lone wolf and not as a team and a grab nerf won't change that at all whatsoever.

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Instead of nerfing the grab why wouldn't you suggest they fix the hit detection on grab saves first? If I grab a counselor in a group I also immediately start walking away which means a grab save often misses, should Jason also not be allowed to move once he has grabbed someone? 

Head Punch and Choke definitely have their place too. They're not cheap, they're just the best option, and only option at times. If I have to prevent a car from moving it's also a risk to use anything else. That's not to say I can't catch the car, but I'd rather not have to in the first place.

The best counter for grabs is to avoid getting grabbed in the first place. It can consistently be done, however there is one thing you can't defend against - the stumble mechanic. I find it's one of the big reasons why even good players get grabbed, and I'd personally like to see it taken out of the game. Nobody likes loss of character control, and getting grabbed because you randomly stumbled means you died regardless of your skill, and Jason killed you regardless of his skill. The game just randomly handed it to him for free. 

Regarding range, of course it's a factor but it's also something players should be used to by now. If Jason can in fact grab you through a wall that's obviously something that needs adjusting though. 

I also don't think nerfing grabs would realistically encourage teamwork in any way. Grabs do not consistently work against groups so I don't see how you came to this conclusion either. Only 2 players with high weapon durability are required for grab saves, and if hit detection is an issue then that's what should be fixed instead.

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1 hour ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

Grab logically would be more like an inverted cone where it's easier to grab people close to you than further away. Right now counselors can dodge the grab at close range but not further away, and that's just wack!

Agreed. It's not so much the range but the shape of the AOE that becomes problematic. If if was inverted people would probably perceive the range to be nerfed because they couldn't be as sloppy with the execution. You'd have to be on target to catch someone at an extended range and the ridiculous short range (out of cone) misses wouldn't be so frustrating.

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7 hours ago, Tommy86 said:

Instead of nerfing the grab why wouldn't you suggest they fix the hit detection on grab saves first? If I grab a counselor in a group I also immediately start walking away which means a grab save often misses, should Jason also not be allowed to move once he has grabbed someone? 

Head Punch and Choke definitely have their place too. They're not cheap, they're just the best option, and only option at times. If I have to prevent a car from moving it's also a risk to use anything else. That's not to say I can't catch the car, but I'd rather not have to in the first place.

The best counter for grabs is to avoid getting grabbed in the first place. It can consistently be done, however there is one thing you can't defend against - the stumble mechanic. I find it's one of the big reasons why even good players get grabbed, and I'd personally like to see it taken out of the game. Nobody likes loss of character control, and getting grabbed because you randomly stumbled means you died regardless of your skill, and Jason killed you regardless of his skill. The game just randomly handed it to him for free. 

Regarding range, of course it's a factor but it's also something players should be used to by now. If Jason can in fact grab you through a wall that's obviously something that needs adjusting though. 

I also don't think nerfing grabs would realistically encourage teamwork in any way. Grabs do not consistently work against groups so I don't see how you came to this conclusion either. Only 2 players with high weapon durability are required for grab saves, and if hit detection is an issue then that's what should be fixed instead.

It would encourage teamwork because people would be willing to risk a pocket knife for traps.

The only Jason who should have the range is Part 7, because he sucks.

Also if you agree for grabbing grouped counselors that are STS,  you're somebody who abuses the glitch. 

Grabbing is meant for the lone wolves specifically, while slashing is for groups. We may see alot of Part 3s and 4s, but atleast they don't have car-ranged grabs.

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28 minutes ago, Theiceman105 said:

It would encourage teamwork because people would be willing to risk a pocket knife. 

If you mean they would be willing to risk a pocket knife on a trap instead of a grab, I think you're assuming a lot about players. Nothing would change, they would still keep the pocket for the grab despite the nerf, since it's essentially another life in case they do get grabbed. 

28 minutes ago, Theiceman105 said:

The only Jason who should have the range is Part 7, because he sucks.

Part 7 does suck, and he sucks despite the current grab range. Even if he had an advantage on grab compared to other Jasons, it's not as if it would solve his other problems. 

28 minutes ago, Theiceman105 said:

Also if you agree for grabbing grouped counselors that are STS,  you're somebody who abuses the glitch. 

What's STS? What glitch? I don't use glitches. 

28 minutes ago, Theiceman105 said:

Grabbing is meant for the lone wolves specifically, while slashing is for groups. We may see alot of Part 3s and 4s, but atleast they don't have car-ranged grabs.

Grabbing is meant for whatever situation you want to use it in. I slash against groups and I also grab against groups if I see a good opportunity. Either hack them all down to a crippled state then pick them off, or take advantage of just enough time to grab someone and walk away for a kill before I get hit. 

Anyway I don't even know what your solution is exactly. All I got from reading this thread is that you want grab to be for one counselor only. So if there's another counselor around I wouldn't be able to grab? I don't think you've thought about the implications of your idea. Seems to me it's based on bad personal experiences with the game and not something being looked at objectively. 

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I've been grabbed from some ridiculous distances but I've always blamed myself for it. That mostly happens whenever I get too sassy and I decide to take on Jason on my own and fight him for some time... And it should not be that way. Jason is simply meant to win 1v1. 

What annoys me the most is that helping another counselor to break free from the grab is still somewhat broken. I still see people breaking their weapons trying to help their friends to break free and there's no way to make him drop them. 

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Jasons kills activate so fast now that you can't save anyone picked up unless you were standing shoulder to shoulder. Which I get it Jason is an ultimate killing machine, but the fact that I don't have 2 seconds to take 5 steps to free my friend is a bit crazy.
The only way you free someone is if Jason is trying to walk to a context kill or can't spin them in the right direction to have enough space but most people just equip the choke, head punch and eye gouge where you don't need space. 
I'm cool with Jason being able to kill everyone, it just wouldn't hurt if it took like a second longer for his kills to light up. it'd still make grabbing players by themselves an easy kill or perhaps even in a group of 2 if they don't work well together. Taking a second longer would just benefit people who work in groups and yes even though Jason is an ultimate killer he shouldn't wreck a group of 3 or 4 with grabs.. he should have to slash and injure and be strategic. Not just grab, head punch and repeat.
That's just my opinion. Idc about the range, I'm more just about the time beforee he can use his kills and not a whole lot longer, just 1 second.

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3 hours ago, PsychBam said:

Jasons kills activate so fast now that you can't save anyone picked up unless you were standing shoulder to shoulder. Which I get it Jason is an ultimate killing machine, but the fact that I don't have 2 seconds to take 5 steps to free my friend is a bit crazy.
The only way you free someone is if Jason is trying to walk to a context kill or can't spin them in the right direction to have enough space but most people just equip the choke, head punch and eye gouge where you don't need space. 
I'm cool with Jason being able to kill everyone, it just wouldn't hurt if it took like a second longer for his kills to light up. it'd still make grabbing players by themselves an easy kill or perhaps even in a group of 2 if they don't work well together. Taking a second longer would just benefit people who work in groups and yes even though Jason is an ultimate killer he shouldn't wreck a group of 3 or 4 with grabs.. he should have to slash and injure and be strategic. Not just grab, head punch and repeat.
That's just my opinion. Idc about the range, I'm more just about the time beforee he can use his kills and not a whole lot longer, just 1 second.

Even when they are, it's still hard

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Will like to add that the fact that is abused by Jason players should be enough reason.  This move gets spammed over and over it is ridiculous.  Also the other fact that composure and scape artist does not do anything for it even when combined makes it  worse.  So his grab needs to be looked up as well as composure stat and scape artist perk.

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2 hours ago, Neonseraphim said:

Will like to add that the fact that is abused by Jason players should be enough reason.  This move gets spammed over and over it is ridiculous.  Also the other fact that composure and scape artist does not do anything for it even when combined makes it  worse.  So his grab needs to be looked up as well as composure stat and scape artist perk.

If your character gets chased enough, composure becomes useless which is absolute bullshit

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Earlier today I was in a match and got grabbed while the VHS static was still on the screen. There's really no way to defend against that. I'm starting to think Jason's grab should have just enough of a cooldown so that he can't grab while the static is still on the counselor's screen. That would be about 1 second or less. My comprehensive list of changes to grab is as follows:

1. Change the "area of effect" to an "inverted cone"-esque shape rather than the cone shape that makes it easier to grab people FURTHER away from you as it is now. That's just bull crap that it's easier to grab people 8 feet away from you but someone can dodge grabs by keeping close to his left side.

2. A very slight delay after shift, somewhere about 0.5-1 second, before grabs can be activated. This way Jason can't abuse the VHS static to mask himself.

3. A 0.5-1 second delay after grabs before kills can be activated.

4. Improve hit detection for weapons to make up for all these changes. There are plenty times where people dodge my weapon but I know they wouldn't have dodged a grab, but I can't grab them because I know they have a pocket knife... or three.

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10 hours ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

3. A 0.5-1 second delay after grabs before kills can be activated.

I believe there might already be this "delay" but that is just the time it takes for him to pick you up. I agree it needs an extra 0.5-1 sec delay after he reaches the top of lifting you. It's just ridiculous that he grabs me and I'm instantaneously dead, my friend a bat length away can't even help me.

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13 hours ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

Change the "area of effect" to an "inverted cone"

I think this alone would fix everyone's issues with the grab.

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I also agree that the hit detection for Jason's melee attacks needs fixing.  I rarely use grabs when playing Jason and noticed usings for melee attacks miss a lot specially if counselor is running but I'm literally on top of the counselor.  Those should not miss.   If anything increase the range for melee and decrease the range for grabs.

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On 17/10/2017 at 5:20 PM, PsychBam said:

Jasons kills activate so fast now that you can't save anyone picked up unless you were standing shoulder to shoulder. Which I get it Jason is an ultimate killing machine, but the fact that I don't have 2 seconds to take 5 steps to free my friend is a bit crazy.
The only way you free someone is if Jason is trying to walk to a context kill or can't spin them in the right direction to have enough space but most people just equip the choke, head punch and eye gouge where you don't need space. 
I'm cool with Jason being able to kill everyone, it just wouldn't hurt if it took like a second longer for his kills to light up. it'd still make grabbing players by themselves an easy kill or perhaps even in a group of 2 if they don't work well together. Taking a second longer would just benefit people who work in groups and yes even though Jason is an ultimate killer he shouldn't wreck a group of 3 or 4 with grabs.. he should have to slash and injure and be strategic. Not just grab, head punch and repeat.
That's just my opinion. Idc about the range, I'm more just about the time beforee he can use his kills and not a whole lot longer, just 1 second.

it PsychBam said the problem with grab is that we don't have enough time to save counselors as we can kill too easily now but grab range is one of those he's made for close range but can grab 7-9m of the target without talking hit detection that do not work properly sometime.

Edited by xllxENIGMAxllx
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On 10/17/2017 at 2:25 AM, Tommy86 said:

Instead of nerfing the grab why wouldn't you suggest they fix the hit detection on grab saves first? If I grab a counselor in a group I also immediately start walking away which means a grab save often misses, should Jason also not be allowed to move once he has grabbed someone? 

Head Punch and Choke definitely have their place too. They're not cheap, they're just the best option, and only option at times. If I have to prevent a car from moving it's also a risk to use anything else. That's not to say I can't catch the car, but I'd rather not have to in the first place.

The best counter for grabs is to avoid getting grabbed in the first place. It can consistently be done, however there is one thing you can't defend against - the stumble mechanic. I find it's one of the big reasons why even good players get grabbed, and I'd personally like to see it taken out of the game. Nobody likes loss of character control, and getting grabbed because you randomly stumbled means you died regardless of your skill, and Jason killed you regardless of his skill. The game just randomly handed it to him for free. 

Regarding range, of course it's a factor but it's also something players should be used to by now. If Jason can in fact grab you through a wall that's obviously something that needs adjusting though. 

I also don't think nerfing grabs would realistically encourage teamwork in any way. Grabs do not consistently work against groups so I don't see how you came to this conclusion either. Only 2 players with high weapon durability are required for grab saves, and if hit detection is an issue then that's what should be fixed instead.

You're wrong as usual. You can't avoid the grab when even low ping players are grabbing with a radius of 5-10 ft. Try again...

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Just now, The_Minotaur80 said:

You're wrong as usual. You can't avoid the grab when even low ping players are grabbing with a radius of 5-10 ft. Try again...

Lol.   Responding to a Oct 17 post.   And saying.  "you're wrong as usual"?      When you just joined a few days ago.

Besides there is no 10 foot grab radius.  And never was.   ... Id tell you to try again but honestly,  you're annoying so try less.

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@The_Minotaur80 this thread was from a long gone patch that had some fucked up grabs. This is ancient history at this point as it's been changed twice since this thread began.

3 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

Besides there is no 10 foot grab radius.  And never was.

When this thread started, the grab range was slightly ridiculous. Doesn't make him right, or less of an ass, but I have to say it wasn't a good range back then.

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In fact, I just got grabbed from 10 ft away and the Jason has low ping. There was even a big rock between us. This game is pointless until they fox the grab. There is mo balance.

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13 minutes ago, The_Minotaur80 said:

In fact, I just got grabbed from 10 ft away and the Jason has low ping. There was even a big rock between us. This game is pointless until they fox the grab. There is mo balance.

So let's see it...

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37 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

Lol.   Responding to a Oct 17 post.   And saying.  "you're wrong as usual"?      When you just joined a few days ago.

Besides there is no 10 foot grab radius.  And never was.   ... Id tell you to try again but honestly,  you're annoying so try less.

That's because you are wrong as usual.

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8 minutes ago, The_Minotaur80 said:

Can I post footage on here?

You can put it on youtube and post the link here. There's also a way to link the video straight from your xbox account, but that's a little more complicated.

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