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Trident77

Overall look at Counselor Changes

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With all the craziness going on, there's been a lot of possible new changes to how counselors work stat wise. I've created this thread with the intentions of trying to make the community aware of what seems to be the biggest of them all, but I'm hoping to eventually track down solid information.

For now, here's a listing of both confirmed as well as unconfirmed changes. I will also list how these changes might've affected the counselors specifically, but keep in mind this is NOT a tier list. It's just a way for me to give people a way to possibly come up with new strategies, and become more aware of what they need to possibly expect in the near future:

1. Composure might've been buffed.

As of late people have been noticed there's been some differences in how composure works, but nothing was mentioned in the patch notes so it's unknown if it's a hidden buff or an unintended change (or a possible future buff that slipped in on accident). I haven't been able to number crunch, but I've heard that high composure counselors reduce fear faster than before. How this could be a major buff is whether or not it takes a high composure counselor less than a minute to regain their bravery compared to sometimes well over two minutes. That can sometimes be more than enough time for someone like Jenny to hide from Jason once more if he gets bored of chasing her (or something happens that prompts him to ignore the high composure counselor for the time being).

Also, while also not yet proven, it's believed that counselors can break out of Jason's grab more easily than before if they have high composure (composure as well as strength are the two stats calculated when breaking out of Jason's grasp, considering the counselor isn't critically injured). This will need some testing as well since this could make the +grip strength bonus for Jason more viable than before if he doesn't intend to use Choke as well as Head Punch on a repeated basis. It's also unknown how strength might affect breaking free in its current state. If both Strength as well as Composure were equally buffed to break out quicker, fighters like Buggzy as well as Adam have both received considerable buffs.

2. Traps are more deadly.

One of the things we know for sure from the patch notes is that traps deal the same amount of damage to all counselors now. This is a nerf for Jenny, Chad, and Vanessa because all three of them had six+ luck, and were therefore able to tank two traps before reaching critical damage.

Tommy is one I haven't had the chance to encounter yet, but I'm assuming he's in the same boat unless some has found out otherwise.

3. Rain might ramp up counselor fear.

Not proven yet, and getting the numbers crunched might be tricky, but keep a close eye on your counselor while out in the rain; it might be a secret Jason buff as well as an immersion improvement for the game. I've heard that supposedly the rain makes it trickier to hear Jason's theme music as well, but it could just depend on your TV/monitor as well. Still...this could be an interesting change for the game if it ends up being true. After all, if rain does make people panic more quickly, they'll want to hide inside houses more often, meaning Jason will have to do more careful Sense checks. Counselors occupying hiding spots could become a bigger thing, like for instance counselors hiding in outhouses outside when they get caught in the rain to avoid building up fear.

This could easily make games last longer since people occupying hiding spots inside a house will not make a house glow red when Jason uses Sense normally. He will have to be in Rage mode to detect this. Personally...I wonder if this could end up being more of a counselor buff than a Jason buff IF rain does in fact affect fear at this point, but we'll have to see.

4. The Baseball Bat might have permanently weakened durability.

This one I'm not so sure on since this was a pre-existing issue with the previous patch (weapon durability was bugged at the time). So far, it seems as if high luck counselors can roughly swing the baseball bat twice before it breaks, whereas everyone else it breaks possibly on the first hit. Since the baseball bat is a weapon with a guaranteed stun if it successfully hit Jason, it has always been a powerful weapon for characters like Jenny as well as Chad. But now, it seems like it's becoming more of a quality over quantity weapon: you're using it because you want to really make sure you stun Jason, even if doesn't last very long.

Technically a nerf if this is true, but perhaps one that was long overdue. Chad being able to swing a baseball five times before it broke was considerably powerful.

Edit: From what I've seen, there's been incredibly mixed reports on the baseball bat's durability. At this point, it's very possible that Luck simply has a pure RNG factor to it. Some people have stated they've seen Chad as well as Jenny being able to use it four times before breaking, while others mention less. Anyone else will have the bat break on them quickly. It's probably just best to assume that the bat will not last very long even if you use a high luck counselor.

 

Anything else guys? I won't be able to play much for now until the weekend but I'll be keeping an eye to see what meta changes we could see in the near future.

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When I played in the rain my mini-map much more than before in dark areas, and regardless of Jason's location.  

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Fast comment: Great analysis. However, I don't think rain affects fear. Due to the 20% darker map effect, it probably just makes us use the flashlight more often and consequently, raise our perceptions of how the fear affects the counselors with the flashlight turned off.

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1 hour ago, NoOneK9503 said:

Fast comment: Great analysis. However, I don't think rain affects fear. Due to the 20% darker map effect, it probably just makes us use the flashlight more often and consequently, raise our perceptions of how the fear affects the counselors with the flashlight turned off.

Interesting theory, and come to think of it I believe you are onto something.  I did get my map back fairly quick when I stood outside under a light / near a fire.  Suggests you hit bingo to me.  

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46 minutes ago, TimmyJarvis said:

Interesting theory, and come to think of it I believe you are onto something.  I did get my map back fairly quick when I stood outside under a light / near a fire.  Suggests you hit bingo to me.  

Oh, I've saw somewhere that standing near a bonfire is the fastest way to reduce fear in the entire game (under a light reduces too, but not as much).

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6 hours ago, NoOneK9503 said:

Oh, I've saw somewhere that standing near a bonfire is the fastest way to reduce fear in the entire game (under a light reduces too, but not as much).

The two fastest ways to reduce fear is standing near a lit bonfire or a fireplace. You can combine some aspects of reducing fear like having the flashlight on while being near a teammate, for instance, but campfires as well as fireplaces are the best source.

It should be noted the developers have mentioned they want camps away from the main cabins/buildings to be more "interesting," which could lead to changes in bonfires if they end up being used too often.

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6 hours ago, Trident77 said:

The two fastest ways to reduce fear is standing near a lit bonfire or a fireplace. You can combine some aspects of reducing fear like having the flashlight on while being near a teammate, for instance, but campfires as well as fireplaces are the best source.

It should be noted the developers have mentioned they want camps away from the main cabins/buildings to be more "interesting," which could lead to changes in bonfires if they end up being used too often.

I though being inside cabins build up fear... So Im not sure about fireplace though

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2 hours ago, mojitodominic said:

I though being inside cabins build up fear... So Im not sure about fireplace though

Cabins build fear if the following are present:

  • All the cabin doors aren't barricaded.
  • The power is dead.

If Jason smashed down any of the cabin doors, then you can't prevent the first point from building fear. The second can be somewhat countered by using your flashlight (or the fear resistance bonuses from the Night Owl as well as Prepardness perks), but if Jason assaulted the cabins earlier then there's a chance he's hiding in the dark using Stalk/Sense to keep tabs on you.

Bonfires as well as fireplaces have been tested in the past; they do indeed reduce fear quickly, henceforth why many amateur Jennys like to hide in tents near bonfires (albeit you have to be standing near the bonfire itself in order to get its fear reduction).

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I didn't notice any substancial changes to composure. It takes as much as always with Jenny to break free from Jason's grab for me. 

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3 minutes ago, Barbara Ann said:

I didn't notice any substancial changes to composure. It takes as much as always with Jenny to break free from Jason's grab for me. 

Did you test this with Jasons who have +grip strength as well as -grip strength? I've noticed the +grip strength Jasons seem to have as much power as they did before, but I've yet to be grabbed by one with -grip strength.

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20 minutes ago, Trident77 said:

Did you test this with Jasons who have +grip strength as well as -grip strength? I've noticed the +grip strength Jasons seem to have as much power as they did before, but I've yet to be grabbed by one with -grip strength.

It was part 4. No difference.

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13 minutes ago, Barbara Ann said:

It was part 4. No difference.

I'm starting to think it's mainly the counselors who have high strength/composure as well as Tommy Jarvis. It's really easy for Tommy to break out of grabs what I've seen, but that does make sense considering he's supposed to be Jason's nemesis.

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7 minutes ago, Trident77 said:

I'm starting to think it's mainly the counselors who have high strength/composure as well as Tommy Jarvis. It's really easy for Tommy to break out of grabs what I've seen, but that does make sense considering he's supposed to be Jason's nemesis.

It's always been easy for Tommy to break free. He's the best at that... And everything else, too, haha. Then follows Adam, then Bugzy, then Jenny. As far as I'm aware, it depends on the combination of composure and strenght. 

Tommy: 20.
Adam: 15.
Bugzy: 14.
Jenny: 11...

And then everyone else who basically have a rough time. Lowest is Chad, with 1 composure and 3 strenght... And he takes forever to break free. 

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I'm not noticing any difference with composure, tbh.

I always have the flash light on with my characters even before the update. I know they play a factor in fear management.

I had several games where I played Mitch and was able to break free a lot on the Jarvis map. But that's probably due to the fact that I was mosrly indoors in tight spaces where the Jason players may have equip those executions that require space.

If they did any adjustments to composure or any other stat, it's probably minor. It needs to be tested out to confirm. Sometimes we like to give ourselves an illusion that something we liked has been changed for the better or worst.

 

 

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48 minutes ago, Barbara Ann said:

It's always been easy for Tommy to break free. He's the best at that... And everything else, too, haha. Then follows Adam, then Bugzy, then Jenny. As far as I'm aware, it depends on the combination of composure and strenght. 

Tommy: 20.
Adam: 15.
Bugzy: 14.
Jenny: 11...

And then everyone else who basically have a rough time. Lowest is Chad, with 1 composure and 3 strenght... And he takes forever to break free. 

I don't want to sound smug, but I already knew about both composure as well as strength being the two stats measured for breaking out of a grip. I mentioned that in my first post, which was I thought this could potentially be a buff for fighters if the changes do indeed exist.

But anyways, I think it's safe to say the composure changes either don't exist or are minor. It just seems odd how many people seem to be able to break free of Jason's grasp more frequently than before, and I don't think it's just because of new players. In fact, if anything new players would probably be spamming the Choke kill since it's one of the first they have, and they're likely rapidly press buttons in order to execute someone.

...It's times like this I wish Gun Media/IllFonic would be more open about changes. They only just recently announced that Thick Skinned was bugged despite the fact everyone already knew this from a while back. It'd make it a lot easier to predict metas if we had solid information on all changes that happen each patch.

35 minutes ago, Archgamer said:

I'm not noticing any difference with composure, tbh.

I always have the flash light on with my characters even before the update. I know they play a factor in fear management.

I had several games where I played Mitch and was able to break free a lot on the Jarvis map. But that's probably due to the fact that I was mosrly indoors in tight spaces where the Jason players may have equip those executions that require space.

If they did any adjustments to composure or any other stat, it's probably minor. It needs to be tested out to confirm. Sometimes we like to give ourselves an illusion that something we liked has been changed for the better or worst.

 

 

As I mentioned in the first post I never confirmed that composure was indeed different, I just posted it was a possibility because of the amount of people noticing differences in-game. The problem is that I don't really have the time to number crunch as of yet. On top of this, I've learned that I have family I haven't seen in a while coming over this weekend, so it's not likely I'll really be able to play all that much this weekend.

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Composure has absolutely been nerfed. I'm not against it, but to say otherwise seems strange. In my three matches as Jason since the patch I've had as many people break out of my grasp as they had probably in all my games before hand. 

Again, not necessarily a bad thing. Jenny will be a more playable character, however environmental kills will be harder.

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On 10/12/2017 at 1:44 PM, Trident77 said:

1. Composure might've been buffed.

As far as I am aware, we have not made any changes with Composure. We will take a look at it and see if there was anything changed in this patch that caused an unintended side affect for anything related to the stat.

 

On 10/12/2017 at 1:44 PM, Trident77 said:

3. Rain might ramp up counselor fear.

Rain currently does not have any effect on game play. 

 

On 10/12/2017 at 1:44 PM, Trident77 said:

4. The Baseball Bat might have permanently weakened durability.

We will be taking a look at durability to check if it is working as intended

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10 minutes ago, [IllFonic]Courier said:

As far as I am aware, we have not made any changes with Composure. We will take a look at it and see if there was anything changed in this patch that caused an unintended side affect for anything related to the stat.

 

Rain currently does not have any effect on game play. 

 

We will be taking a look at durability to check if it is working as intended

Ah, well thank you for the notice.

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If you didn't make any changes on purpose to composure, I'd suggest looking at what's happened and consider keeping it in moving forward, or at least make the "break free" mechanic a touch more forgiving if you're going to revert back. If you go back to prior gameplay, Jenny was straight-up useless compared to Chad. In fact, composure as a whole gave no real advantage to... well... anything. From a practical (not mathematical/theoretical) standpoint, a character with 10 composure stood as much chance of breaking free from a grab as a character with 1 composure, because the majority of Jasons use instant kill animations. Now, however, even if it takes Jason a second to find a flat spot to use choke or head punch, characters like Jenny, Mitch, and Tommy are able to break free. That's a good thing.

It's the same with sense avoidance. Because Sense is a spammable ability, there was no real advantage to high composure until this update. Also, Jason could sense every character one he hit rage mode. After the patch, however, I'm noticing that characters with high composure sometimes do not show up as red when I'm in rage mode, even if they are right in front of me.

Composure needs to be a more meaningful stat than it has been in the past. At least anecdotally speaking, that appears to be the case with the new update. I hope it stays that way.

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6 hours ago, Barbara Ann said:

I didn't notice any substancial changes to composure. It takes as much as always with Jenny to break free from Jason's grab for me. 

I've been wondering if there was any change, because I've never regularly played a counselor with a high composure. Then, when the update came out, I've been playing nothing but Mitch and can't believe how quickly he can break out of grasps! :D

So, I was unsure if there was any change or not - been hearing people say there is a change, but... not sure there has been!

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4 hours ago, Trident77 said:

I don't want to sound smug, but I already knew about both composure as well as strength being the two stats measured for breaking out of a grip. I mentioned that in my first post, which was I thought this could potentially be a buff for fighters if the changes do indeed exist.

But anyways, I think it's safe to say the composure changes either don't exist or are minor. It just seems odd how many people seem to be able to break free of Jason's grasp more frequently than before, and I don't think it's just because of new players. In fact, if anything new players would probably be spamming the Choke kill since it's one of the first they have, and they're likely rapidly press buttons in order to execute someone.

...It's times like this I wish Gun Media/IllFonic would be more open about changes. They only just recently announced that Thick Skinned was bugged despite the fact everyone already knew this from a while back. It'd make it a lot easier to predict metas if we had solid information on all changes that happen each patch.

As I mentioned in the first post I never confirmed that composure was indeed different, I just posted it was a possibility because of the amount of people noticing differences in-game. The problem is that I don't really have the time to number crunch as of yet. On top of this, I've learned that I have family I haven't seen in a while coming over this weekend, so it's not likely I'll really be able to play all that much this weekend.

Yeah... I don't know why people are saying they notice things working differently. My Jenny feels just as always... And even though I main Deb, I play Jenny a lot too. 

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It's also possible that composure didn't change at all but grip strength did.

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