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Why part 7 Jason needs a BUFF

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3 hours ago, [IllFonic]Courier said:

We're looking at Jason Part 7 and considering possible changes and/or tweaks that can be made on him.
There is nothing set in stone and we're still in discussions about it, but I'll be sure to take in all of your suggestions.

This is great to hear.

If we're going with what's currently in the game, here's mine:

Quote

Jason Part 7

+Stalk
+Weapon Damage
+Morph


-Can't Run
-Traps
-Shift


The Stalk bonus is there to allow Part 7 more time to set up kills, as he did with Melissa. With negatives in both traps and Shift, the Weapon Damage bonus is there to allow Part 7 to more easily cripple his targets before going in for the kill. Additionally, on the subject of traps, the Morph bonus is there to assist Part 7 in defending map objectives, while sharing synergy with Stalk in order to keep the counselors on their toes as to whether or not Jason is still in the vicinity. These bonuses can be used together to provide a Jason with high deceptive potential, although his weakness in traps requires him to be an active participant in securing any escape routes.

 

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4 hours ago, [IllFonic]Courier said:

We're looking at Jason Part 7 and considering possible changes and/or tweaks that can be made on him.
There is nothing set in stone and we're still in discussions about it, but I'll be sure to take in all of your suggestions.

Just be sure to fix Jason's melee and for the LOVE OF GOD, fix Jason's grab! The Oct. 11 patch had the grab right! Let's go back to that!

lol

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6 hours ago, [IllFonic]Courier said:

We're looking at Jason Part 7 and considering possible changes and/or tweaks that can be made on him.
There is nothing set in stone and we're still in discussions about it, but I'll be sure to take in all of your suggestions.

The main issue is the Shift- is possibly the most crippling penalty a Jason can have, and needs strong buffs to balance it out.

It's generally accepted that the most important perks are Shift+, Morph+, Traps+, Weapon Strength+, and Destruction.

Parts 2 and 4, the other Shift- Jasons, have two from that list, plus Can Run - a middle tier ability. It's enough to make Part 2 good, and Part 4 playable (as Traps- still hurts him).

Part 7 has none of those abilities to balance him out, Can't Run, and then has another big downside in Traps- on top as a kick in the teeth. His strengths are also all largely useless. Grip means nothing, water isn't entered the majority of games, and Sense is only ever flickered.

I would instead give him Morph+ and a neutral Shift. That way he completes a cycle of good and unique Jasons.

2 is a good Morpher, but a bad Shifter, with extra traps to compensate.

6 is a good Shifter, but a bad Morpher, with extra knives to compensate.

7 would be a good Morpher, and neutral Shifter, but loses Traps to compensate.

9 is a good Shifter, and neutral Morpher, but loses Traps to compensate.

Hey presto! You now have a good and balaced Jason, that is a unique archetype.

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8 hours ago, [IllFonic]Courier said:

We're looking at Jason Part 7 and considering possible changes and/or tweaks that can be made on him.
There is nothing set in stone and we're still in discussions about it, but I'll be sure to take in all of your suggestions.

qlZ8CoT.gif

It's finally happening.

Ok, I have a couple ideas.

A few matches I've been in as part 7, despite all the efforts put into patrolling the map, one of the cars would get started pretty quick. Part 7 has a big problem in being able to control objectives, and compounded with his low mobility with normal morph and -Shift, it's a serious headache trying to keep control of the objectives. I noticed in these matches that when the cars would get started early, Part 7's Rage meter was hardly halfway full. Now if you keep mostly everything the same, if he got Rage sooner in the match, that could make up for having the same weaknesses as he does now.

Another idea that I've thrown around is him having a +Fear modifier, for say 2x fear bonus or something like that. That might be worth testing.

I would prefer removing the -Traps weakness because combining that with -Shift is really tough to play with. You really do have to act like a goalie with Part 7 because 1 person with medic and 2 sprays can remove your traps, forcing you to stay near an objective while they are working on the others.

You might consider re-tooling the Shift ability across the board. I think it could work better if the speed and distance difference between all of them was closer together. I've had Shift races against cars as part 7 with a head start and -Shift's max speed is slower than the car. At the same time, +Shift is kind of like a substitute for Morph because it covers almost 1/4 of the large maps in one go.

Part 7 got knocked over by a slowly levitating house plant, a couch, and a light fixture. I think -Stun Resistance is consistent with the character(as in the Beta).

I really want the grip strength to stay too but if you guys want to keep it at 3 pros and cons then it has to be removed from Part 7 because it's one of those abilities that is practically a non-modifier because kills can be done instantly. But, perhaps if grip strength had a tertiary bonus of some kind, like for example increasing throwing knife damage, or inflicting more damage on blocked attacks, or something that impacted the way Jason plays outside of just grabbing people, then maybe it could be an attractive bonus.

 

Now, other people have been suggesting +Morph for part 7, but really it's a crime that Part 8 did not get +Morph lol. I'd rather part 8 get that swapped with his +Stalk and you can give part 2 +Stalk instead.

 

Here are two ways I would remake part 7:

Version 1

+Water Speed

+Sense

+Rage(unlocks at about the 11 minute mark if taking no damage. Attacks and pocket knives have a greater effect on his rage increase, maybe up to 30-50% greater)

-Can't Run

-Shift

-Stun Resistance

Version 2

+Water Speed

+Sense

+Fear(2x fear production rate, more or less depending on testing, knocking out power near a counselor also gives them a greater fear spike)

-Can't Run

-Traps

-Stun Resistance

 

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8 hours ago, [IllFonic]Courier said:

We're looking at Jason Part 7 and considering possible changes and/or tweaks that can be made on him.
There is nothing set in stone and we're still in discussions about it, but I'll be sure to take in all of your suggestions.

I'm happy to hear about this, and seeing as this is the thread you replied to, I'm going to explain here exactly why Part 7 needs a buff. This is partially copied from a different thread I posted in, but I think I made a good summary. I know I don't need to explain your own mechanics to you but perhaps reading them from a player perspective will provide good insight. 

Why Part 7 is not only less capable than other Jasons, but why he is flat out handicapped -

+Sense only affects duration and cooldown, both irrelevant since Sense is best toggled on/off, thus also greatly reducing cooldown.

+Grip Strength is also irrelevant because if a counselor has no pocket knife, and no other player to grab save, they are dead. So unless you are trying to activate specific kills (optional) it is worthless.

+Water Speed is situational at best but mainly unnecessary since a Jason only has to periodically check the map and see if the boat is moving. If yes = morph ahead and catch them. Most players can do it with any Jason.

-Shift and Can't Run make for the worst mobility out of all Jasons and prevent him from adequately pressuring Counselors.

-Traps means Jason cannot adequately control objectives. When paired with his mobility weakness, it means he is disadvantaged in every meaningful way against Counselors.

So basically, worst strengths + worst weaknesses. Every single Jason is better and there's no reason to play Part 7 other than aesthetic. At the very least, the first thing you should do is remove -Shift. No undead / walking Jason should have negative Shift, period. It is too much of a disadvantage for pressure. Secondly, Grip Strength stat should either be removed or completely overhauled, as it is currently the most worthless stat in the game. 

Hope this helps.

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3 hours ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

@Tommy86 I think -Shift on a walking/undead Jason can work if it had a substantial strength like greater damage, destruction, fear, or rage. They could also overhaul Shift to play differently.

Yes it could potentially work if other stats were involved, but I'd rather err on the side of caution. He doesn't need +Shift, simply base Shift. Otherwise like you've suggested, if the -Shift stat was modified, that could work too. For instance simply a longer cooldown, without the slower speed (currently 60% slower). But the summary I made is in relation to how stats currently function.

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For movie reference Jason P7 caught runners because they got tired. Look at Dr Crews death for example. Another one, he threw a spike at someone to slow them down. I would also guess that he morph at the end of the movie before the house exploded and caught Tina and Nick by surprise when they embrace each other at the dock.

His strength should include something that can deplete stamina quicker. Throwing knives and maybe a +morph. Any of these strength would make him more accurate to the movies.

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14 minutes ago, Archgamer said:

For movie reference Jason P7 caught runners because they got tired. Look at Dr Crews death for example. Another one, he threw a spike at someone to slow them down. I would also guess that he morph at the end of the movie before the house exploded and caught Tina and Nick by surprise when they embrace each other at the dock.

His strength should include something that can deplete stamina quicker. Throwing knives and maybe a +morph. Any of these strength would make him more accurate to the movies.

+Fear can do that bro.

+Fear™ is a trademark of VoorheesAJollyGoodFellowProductions.inc. Secondary licensing by RoyBurnsIsABadass.inc. All rights reserved. Unauthorized duplication, distribution, or exhibition may result in civil liability and criminal prosecution. 

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4 minutes ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

+Fear can do that bro.

+Fear™ is a trademark of VoorheesAJollyGoodFellowProductions.inc. Secondary licensing by RoyBurnsIsABadass.inc. All rights reserved. Unauthorized duplication, distribution, or exhibition may result in civil liability and criminal prosecution. 

I like the disclaimer :D

But I always thought the +Fear suggestion was a good one. Or +Rage. If they ever add a 4th stat, I think those would be good options.

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For the time being, this would be my setup:

Strengths

  • HP+: You know that scene where Jason was set on fire, and he was panicking? That was Kane Hodder setting the world record at that time for being on fire the longest time in an uncontrolled setting. Movie-wise Jason got right back up, and resumed what he was doing a few minutes ago. He's a tough mofo to take down for sure.
  • Fear+: Would be cool to see a strength like this.
  • Water Speed: Duh.

Weaknesses

  • Can't Run: Jason never ran in this movie.
  • Stun Resistance: He was knocked down a considerable amount of times. From what I understand, stun resistance in-game actually affects how long you remain stunned, and doesn't affect your chances of being stunned in the first place. In this case, I chose Stun Resistance.
  • Traps: Jason didn't use traps in this movie if I remember correctly.

Overall: Since this Jason is the second one to be unlocked (since you start off with Part 3), he'd be available early to the playerbase. Part 3 is overall balanced, and Part 6 was designed to introduce players to the Shift mechanism. Part 7 would introduce players to fighting off mobs, and the stun resistance weakness can actually be useful when the counselors are trying to Kill Jason. Under normal circumstances you cannot damage Jason while he is stunned, so being stunned longer means drenching the counselors in fear for a longer time. Add in a Fear+ mechanic, and suddenly no one wants to deal with this Jason. At the same exact time new Jason players will learn the importance of blocking, albeit it does need to be fixed due to currently existing bugs.

He'd be easier to escape from in terms of fixing objectives, but since he no longer has a Shift- weakness he's capable of catching cars, so you would still need to be careful. Overall this Jason would help teach players better combat mechanisms.

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@Trident77 I think I can provide a bit of clarity here. Let's look at each Jason. Part 3 is the one most equipped to deal with mobs, as Can Run helps agility in combat and Weapon Strength is invaluable at dealing damage. Any Jason with these stats is the best pick for combat. Part 6 is more about precision, firstly to utilise his +Throwing Knives strength, learning to reliably slow down counselors with them, and secondly in weapon control. His long range means he can keep counselors at bay, and maintain good spacing, but slower speed requires more precise attacks.

Onto Part 7, regarding the stats you suggested. Firstly you are correct that Stun Resistance doesn't affect your chance to be stunned (this was proven by Rydog through extensive testing) and I'm not aware that that it affects Stun Duration either. The game says a lot of things that either operate differently to how they are described, or don't operate at all (stat page descriptions are from beta). So currently this is a meaningless stat.

However if it did work, a negative on Stun Resistance for longer Stun duration certainly wouldn't help in combat. Longer Stun would simply provide counselors with more time to regain stamina, and even with a hypothetical +Fear stat which would slow down stamina regen, if players are competent enough to reliably land hits on you then they will keep regaining stamina regardless. Not to mention a Nerves of Steel perk will help to decrease the effects of Fear and keep the minimap on screen to avoid Shift Grabs. I do like the +Fear stat, but these are not the conditions I imagine it being most effective in. You would want to avoid being stunned and maintain pressure to prevent stamina regen.

Against mobs, entering combat stance at all whether to block or attack isn't as effective as simply moving around to dodge attacks, as combat stance limits your viewing angles and limits your mobility to avoid firecrackers and projectiles. CS is good for a quick block, either in defense or to break weapons, but the longer you stay in it the more vulnerable you are to attacks from other angles.

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5 minutes ago, Tommy86 said:

@Trident77 I think I can provide a bit of clarity here. Let's look at each Jason. Part 3 is the one most equipped to deal with mobs, as Can Run helps agility in combat and Weapon Strength is invaluable at dealing damage. Any Jason with these stats is the best pick for combat. Part 6 is more about precision, firstly to utilise his +Throwing Knives strength, learning to reliably slow down counselors with them, and secondly in weapon control. His long range means he can keep counselors at bay, and maintain good spacing, but slower speed requires more precise attacks.

Onto Part 7, regarding the stats you suggested. Firstly you are correct that Stun Resistance doesn't affect your chance to be stunned (this was proven by Rydog through extensive testing) and I'm not aware that that it affects Stun Duration either. The game says a lot of things that either operate differently to how they are described, or don't operate at all (stat page descriptions are from beta). So currently this is a meaningless stat.

However if it did work, a negative on Stun Resistance for longer Stun duration certainly wouldn't help in combat. Longer Stun would simply provide counselors with more time to regain stamina, and even with a hypothetical +Fear stat which would slow down stamina regen, if players are competent enough to reliably land hits on you then they will keep regaining stamina regardless. Not to mention a Nerves of Steel perk will help to decrease the effects of Fear and keep the minimap on screen to avoid Shift Grabs. I do like the +Fear stat, but these are not the conditions I imagine it being most effective in. You would want to avoid being stunned and maintain pressure to prevent stamina regen.

Against mobs, entering combat stance at all whether to block or attack isn't as effective as simply moving around to dodge attacks, as combat stance limits your viewing angles and limits your mobility to avoid firecrackers and projectiles. CS is good for a quick block, either in defense or to break weapons, but the longer you stay in it the more vulnerable you are to attacks from other angles.

....Fine, so long as it's not something with Shift-.

I'm done trying to figure out Jason stats, so I'll just let someone else do this then.

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6 minutes ago, Trident77 said:

....Fine, so long as it's not something with Shift-.

I'm done trying to figure out Jason stats, so I'll just let someone else do this then.

It's not easy, and I didn't post that to make you feel bad about it either, sorry if it came across that way. Just trying to provide some clarity as there's quite some confusion about the stats / mechanics and how they relate to gameplay. In all honesty, Part 8's stats would've been perfect for Part 7 considering how he is portrayed in the movie. But since they are already taken, it is difficult to decide what kind of playstyle to give J7. So all I'm thinking about is to just take away his biggest weakness which is -Shift, and replace at least one of his strengths with something that's actually meaningful. Grip Strength is the prime candidate to be replaced IMO.

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This is exciting news. Thanks @[IllFonic]Courier

I was kinda satisfied the way he was when he could break doors in 3 or 4 hits but if Part 7 ends up like this....

+Weapon Strength

+Morph

+Grip(or Sense, either one)

 

-Traps 

-Can't Run

-Shift

...then I'll switch back from random Jasons. 

 

I end up playing tighter when I'm part 7 so I have much more satisfying rounds when I kill a full lobby. He definitely gets the most escapes though. I wouldn't want him too much different. I like the slow Shift. +Morph will make it more useful.  And he's fun to slash with so +Weapon would be awesome, and I hate doors. 

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I hope they keep part 7 water speed. I know it’s situational, but not many Jason’s have it, and it makes him more unique.

my suggestions would be

+ water speed

+ stalk

+ sense

- can’t run

- defense

- traps

Id like to see a Jason with both enhanced Stalk/ sense. The two pair well together and would make him the best Hunter/tracker Jason

another version could be

+ waterspeed

+ morph

+ weapon strength 

- shift

- can’t run

- traps

This version would be great at objective control, but keeping the minus traps would mean he’s not tied with part 2. Keep the minus shift so he would still be slow at chasing people, but his morph would balance it out, and weapon strength would make him a threat up close.

 

 

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20 hours ago, Truth said:

Is that a weapon suggestion? Or are you just typing random words?

its pretty obvious a weapon suggestion.i keep getting people harassing me about my grammar and education level. this is a video game forum. if you dont like someone stay away from them and their posts.harrasing people and trying to make them look stupid should be against the rules.how do you treat old people or disabled people.if you cant figure out what someone is trying to say even if there puncuation and grammar are bad then maybe you have problems.

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10 minutes ago, EvilElvenElvis said:

its pretty obvious a weapon suggestion.i keep getting people harassing me about my grammar and education level. this is a video game forum. if you dont like someone stay away from them and their posts.harrasing people and trying to make them look stupid should be against the rules.how do you treat old people or disabled people.if you cant figure out what someone is trying to say even if there puncuation and grammar are bad then maybe you have problems.

I don't think I was in any way harassing you. You literally just said "saw blade weed eater". How am I supposed to know what you're talking about? "Weed eater" is not a term I've personally hear before, I'm assuming you mean weed trimmer but I've never seen one with a saw blade... Maybe if you typed something like what I quoted instead of just "saw blade weed eater" I would've understood what you were trying to say. A full sentence (grammatically correct or not) means a lot more than 4 words thrown together.

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1 hour ago, Truth said:

I don't think I was in any way harassing you. You literally just said "saw blade weed eater". How am I supposed to know what you're talking about? "Weed eater" is not a term I've personally hear before, I'm assuming you mean weed trimmer but I've never seen one with a saw blade... Maybe if you typed something like what I quoted instead of just "saw blade weed eater" I would've understood what you were trying to say. A full sentence (grammatically correct or not) means a lot more than 4 words thrown together.

"Weedeater" is a brand of weed trimmers and lawnmowers and in some places "weed eater" became ubiquitous with a weed trimmer. It became a slang term. The saw blade is used for cutting tree limbs out of reach.

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3 minutes ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

"Weedeater" is a brand of weed trimmers and lawnmowers and in some places "weed eater" became ubiquitous with a weed trimmer. It became a slang term. The saw blade is used for cutting tree limbs out of reach.

I've always heard "weed whacker" personally. I've still never seen one with a saw blade on it.

Fact remains, "saw blade weed eater" doesn't tell us much about your thoughts.

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Just now, Truth said:

I've always heard "weed whacker" personally. I've still never seen one with a saw blade on it.

Fact remains, "saw blade weed eater" doesn't tell you much about your thoughts.

I think "weed eater" is a southern term and "weed whacker" is a northern term in the U.S. You just didn't know the local slang.

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If you wanna kill weeds, use Round Up.

Now can we stop talking about gardening and get back to Jason?

I do think a weed wacker environmental kill would be one of the nicest things I've ever seen.

 

With strengths and weaknesses, what we should be suggesting should already exist in the game. I'd be very surprised if they add any new ones. 

 

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+Fear is a good idea, and looks him: is most scary Jason and +waterspeed must be maintained

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Lots of good suggestions.

Having 4 strength/weakness might help, but it could also over complicate things.

+Morph - We don't yet have an undead with Morph as a strength, Part 8 should've had it but Part 7 could have it instead

+Water Speed - Sorry, he should keep this...Jason being so much faster than counselor in one arena is needed

+Grip Strength - I'd leave it...environmental kills feel like their less doable in areas outside the cabins now...which sucks...even with the new kills inside, I still see a bunch of decap/choke spammers...this could also be the Fear idea others mentioned though

+ Sense - You know...people say this is useless because of toggle...ok but what if they changed it to prevent you from toggling?...I feel like that would change people's opinions, since you can't toggle Stalk without it resetting...what if they changed Sense to work like Stalk? I have a feeling people's opinions on SENSE would change a bit... + Sense would allow Part 7 to toggle AND last longer, any neutral Sense Jasons would lose toggle and any negative sense Jasons would have LONGER cooldowns on top of no toggle

- Can't Run

- Stun Resistance

- Traps

- Defense - He wasn't really able to defend himself real well in that film, but Tina had powers so

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