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Why part 7 Jason needs a BUFF

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First off, he's got the best maskless face.

I agree with DeadManJoe, he's hard-mode Jason.  But when you get 7/7s and 8/8s it feels much better...and I'm talking about being against good counselors. Killing an entire lobby of shitty counselors is about the same, it only takes longer. The only downside is that if the counselors are good, everything is found quickly and its close to the 4 seater and phone box, Jason 7's chances are next to shit, but not complete shit. 

I don't mind the speed of his shift because it makes it easier to do close shifts and I can follow jukers with more control. Maybe they can increase the duration a little more.

Morph can maybe be increased a little

He breaks doors down in 4 hits. That helps to keep things moving. 

 

Overall I'm fine with the way he is but those tweaks to morph and shift would balance him out for me.

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I've seen less door breaking hits mentioned a lot, do we know if this was something intentional? Or something we can expect to be reverted? 

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1 hour ago, Tommy86 said:

I've seen less door breaking hits mentioned a lot, do we know if this was something intentional? Or something we can expect to be reverted? 

Good question!

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3 hours ago, Tommy86 said:

I've seen less door breaking hits mentioned a lot, do we know if this was something intentional? Or something we can expect to be reverted? 

I'll have to play as Part 7 Jason just to see if it's true. If he gets +Destruction secretly, I would settle for that but dammit, I want my +Fear!

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Perhaps they're referring to his quicker door animation, not just the hits? I've also seen people suggest that the doors are now weaker, or sporadically so, overall. It may not be Jason 7 exclusive. 

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On 9/29/2017 at 6:06 PM, VenomSymbiote said:

I don't think it fair to people who want their favorite Jason to be good to be ignored simply so others can feel good for getting a lot or all of the counselors with the worst Jason. Other than Savini every Jason should have a good balance of positive and negatives and as 7 is right now he has no style of play, no real benefit to other Jasons, outside of his glitched hearing range. Which honestly is negligible since every other Jasons actual decent bonuses compensate for this and then some. The only Jason that should be drastically different from the others is Savini, for obvious reasons. All the others should be on par and have their own play style. Everything you apply to Jason 7 can be applied to the other Jasons and you'll have far better tools at your disposal to deal with everything to boot. 

Gun and Illfonic haven't commented on Jason 7 as far as I know and I'm honestly getting pretty ticked off by that. If they have no intention of ever changing him just come out and say it so people don't bother asking for it. 

 

They'd still ask for it because fuck his terrible stats. 

You're getting into "fair" and "worst," and that all becomes a matter of opinion. Fair is not equal and equal is not fair.

In my own opinion, P7 isn't the worst, P3 is. Weapon strength and grip strength are kind of silly strengths, I think.

That being said, if you could play each Jason the same way, the game would be incredibly boring to play as Jason.

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18 hours ago, WashingtonJones said:

First off, he's got the best maskless face.

I agree with DeadManJoe, he's hard-mode Jason.  But when you get 7/7s and 8/8s it feels much better...and I'm talking about being against good counselors. Killing an entire lobby of shitty counselors is about the same, it only takes longer. The only downside is that if the counselors are good, everything is found quickly and its close to the 4 seater and phone box, Jason 7's chances are next to shit, but not complete shit. 

I don't mind the speed of his shift because it makes it easier to do close shifts and I can follow jukers with more control. Maybe they can increase the duration a little more.

Morph can maybe be increased a little

He breaks doors down in 4 hits. That helps to keep things moving. 

 

Overall I'm fine with the way he is but those tweaks to morph and shift would balance him out for me.

Agreed. I think that if they gave a little strength to his shift (just duration) he would be fine.

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3 hours ago, AdrianBlackbear said:

You're getting into "fair" and "worst," and that all becomes a matter of opinion. Fair is not equal and equal is not fair.

In my own opinion, P7 isn't the worst, P3 is. Weapon strength and grip strength are kind of silly strengths, I think.

That being said, if you could play each Jason the same way, the game would be incredibly boring to play as Jason.

Part 3 can run, has 5 traps, can kill counselors quicker by slashing with his weapon. His weaknesses are stun, sense, and stalk. This means he has normal morph and shift on top his normal buffs. He doesn't need to utilize stalk much since he can run and slash counselors. Stun resistance isn't a big deal because every Jason can block. 

Part 7 Cannot run, has weakened shift duration, speed, cool down, and distance, doesn't have enough traps to keep objectives covered, has situational water speed which is nice yet again very situational, sense boils down to not much since all Jasons can toggle it off early and as you said yourself, grip is a silly strength. This isn't an opinion, 7 is the worst Jason hands down. Every tactic you use as Jason 7 can be applied to all other Jasons and you'd be able to do better. 

Edit: As for being boring to play, I agree. Each Jason should have a play style all their own, which Jason 7 lacks. As I said, anything you do with him can be applied to other Jasons who have actual skills at their disposal. 

Edited by VenomSymbiote
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8 hours ago, VenomSymbiote said:

Edit: As for being boring to play, I agree. Each Jason should have a play style all their own, which Jason 7 lacks. As I said, anything you do with him can be applied to other Jasons who have actual skills at their disposal. 

Agree! This is why I feel some Jasons, specially Part 7 AND 8 are lacking some specific playstyle. They need all their tools explored to the maximum and most efficient way possible. I think I'll even create a topic about Part 8 Jason later.

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1 hour ago, NoOneK9503 said:

Agree! This is why I feel some Jasons, specially Part 7 AND 8 are lacking some specific playstyle. They need all their tools explored to the maximum and most efficient way possible. I think I'll even create a topic about Part 8 Jason later.

I've never given much thought to part 8 honestly. At the very least he has an amazing skill in Destruction. What about part 8 feels bad to you? Asking genuinely since most agree his destruction is just that good, and his negatives aren't that harsh. I do think him having stalk and destruction is a bit weird together. One is meant for being sneaky while the other is getting into cabins as soon as possible while loudly busting down the door. Like giving part 7 stalk instead of grip strength, and swapping his -traps for -stun that he had from the beta, would go a long way in helping him. That would also give people access to a stalker Jason much sooner than level 20. 

Edited by VenomSymbiote

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9 hours ago, VenomSymbiote said:

Part 3 can run, has 5 traps, can kill counselors quicker by slashing with his weapon. His weaknesses are stun, sense, and stalk. This means he has normal morph and shift on top his normal buffs. He doesn't need to utilize stalk much since he can run and slash counselors. Stun resistance isn't a big deal because every Jason can block. 

So glad somebody else is posting knowledge here. In the other J7 thread, I had to educate people who thought Savini sucks, and now I come here and read that Part 3 is supposedly the worst. Lack of knowledge is possibly the biggest thing this game suffers from.

You covered Part 3 well already but I will just add that he is one of the top Jasons, even more viable than Savini for health pressure (until his weapon strength is fixed). Since not everyone has Savini either then Part 3 will remain the best option that everyone has access to. Like you said, he is a running Jason with +Weapon Strength (potent combo) and no negatives to Shift, Morph or Traps - which means he can handle everything and none of his weaknesses impede his playstyle (in the hands of good players).

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23 minutes ago, VenomSymbiote said:

I've never given much thought to part 8 honestly. At the very least he has an amazing skill in Destruction. What about part 8 feels bad to you? Asking genuinely since most agree his destruction is just that good, and his negatives aren't that harsh. I do think him having stalk and destruction is a bit weird together. One is meant for being sneaky while the other is getting into cabins as soon as possible while loudly busting down the door. Like giving part 7 stalk instead of grip strength, and swapping his -traps for -stun that he had from the beta, would go a long way in helping him. That would also give people access to a stalker Jason much sooner than level 20. 

Done! You can see my thoughts here:

 

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I honestly don't see that much of a difference between jasons if you're good enough. Yes, part 7 is probably the worst, but Jason is still so OP, I don't think it makes that much of a difference. My friends and I play all of the jasons, and we usually kill most of or all the counselors everytime. No, it's not just shitty counselors. This is over months of play time. If you can't kill people with part 7, you need to up your game bro. As for grip strength, it's important if you're going for environmental kills. Also, it was more useful before they added a bunch of environmental, and you would have to carry a counselor out of an enclosed area for a kill to pop. 

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42 minutes ago, Sphen1313 said:

I honestly don't see that much of a difference between jasons if you're good enough. Yes, part 7 is probably the worst, but Jason is still so OP, I don't think it makes that much of a difference. My friends and I play all of the jasons, and we usually kill most of or all the counselors everytime. No, it's not just shitty counselors. This is over months of play time. If you can't kill people with part 7, you need to up your game bro. As for grip strength, it's important if you're going for environmental kills. Also, it was more useful before they added a bunch of environmental, and you would have to carry a counselor out of an enclosed area for a kill to pop. 

When we talk about how balanced a Jason is, it is not based on matches with players of variable skill levels, but on matches at a high level. What a Jason is capable of in the hands of a good player, and how he stacks up against good teams.

When I say good teams, I'm not just saying how skilled each player is, but how well they work together. So while many counselors you've killed may have been good players themselves, if they weren't effectively working together then they were a bad team. And that is a more likely factor for you wiping out a lobby with J7 than your actual skill.

Majority of the F13 player base is lacking in knowledge, mainly because the community has not welcomed gameplay analysis or appreciated advanced players. So yes, there are a lot of shitty counselors as you put it. I am just an average player but I have seen firsthand what is possible and learned from those who know the game intricately. I am simply trying to pass on that knowledge and stop bad advice proliferating more than it already has.

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1 hour ago, Tommy86 said:

Majority of the F13 player base is lacking in knowledge, mainly because the community has not welcomed gameplay analysis or appreciated advanced players.

Incorrect. It's that the two biggest names for "advanced players," Rydog and Pappus, promoted/still promote abusing bugs and glitches to players advantage. They had/have so much time on their hands they couldn't fathom that they could be wrong about what they considered to be a valid, ahem...

mooor.jpg

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12 hours ago, VenomSymbiote said:

Part 3 can run, has 5 traps, can kill counselors quicker by slashing with his weapon. His weaknesses are stun, sense, and stalk. This means he has normal morph and shift on top his normal buffs. He doesn't need to utilize stalk much since he can run and slash counselors. Stun resistance isn't a big deal because every Jason can block. 

Part 7 Cannot run, has weakened shift duration, speed, cool down, and distance, doesn't have enough traps to keep objectives covered, has situational water speed which is nice yet again very situational, sense boils down to not much since all Jasons can toggle it off early and as you said yourself, grip is a silly strength. This isn't an opinion, 7 is the worst Jason hands down. Every tactic you use as Jason 7 can be applied to all other Jasons and you'd be able to do better. 

Edit: As for being boring to play, I agree. Each Jason should have a play style all their own, which Jason 7 lacks. As I said, anything you do with him can be applied to other Jasons who have actual skills at their disposal. 

Again, you're assuming that P7 is the "worst," when that is an opinion. I'm done talking about the topic though. It's become a literal circle-jerk.

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I feel an advanced Jason player has nothing to do with killing but how well you kill. A good Jason is one that makes you wanna stick around and watch even if you're the 1st to die in the 1st minute.

This one guy was brilliant. He was in complete control. I was in a party of Navy Seal level counselors and he fucked us all up. He was creepy and threw everybody's game off, and we're all sore losers and we still appreciated it. He did this thing where he would knock on the doors, when we were in a house, and people were losing their minds. I don't think he had to chase anybody. He Stalked like he was the one that invented the ability. 

What he did, could be done to the same effect with any Jason. Fear is not just an in game feature, it also could be used as a real life feature. There's nothing scary about just being good. This game fully offers a real fucking horror movie experience. And when it's done right, it's a work of art.  

 

Now....as far as Jason 8 is concerned, I think he's the best Jason. His Sense and Shift work perfect together for long distance shift grabs, because he can't sense too far away. I've been playing random Jason and been getting Part 6 all the time and I fucked up all my long distant shift grabs cause I didn't realize how far away they were with Sense. Part 8 also breaks barricaded doors in 2 or 3 hits and has 5 traps and looks great! What else do you need? If you increase anything on Part 8, he'll be obnoxious...worse than Savini.  

And I don't know if Part 7 got changed with the update, but I don't think all Jason's need less hits to break a door. 6 and 9 still take forever. Jason 7 does 4 for barricaded and 2 for unlocked.

 

6, 7 & 8 are my favorites with 6 & 7 tied for 2nd place.

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i agree i was streaming and people were asking me what Jason was the worse and i did bring up this that he is working with 1 less perk since alot of people don't really escape on boat i think they gotta add a boat to each map i did see another thread with someone saying that they should replace a car with a boat and thats a cool idea the more the better in my opinion and yeah i don't think he needs a buff or anything of the sorts but i do think they should add a boat to each map so that in the case that someone tries to escape on boat Part 7 jason would make it very hard I honestly have yet to see a boat flip i've actually only seen like 1 time that Jason has caught someone in the water and that was me just seeing what it looks like when Jason gets you actually looks like he's a crocodile xD 

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4 hours ago, AdrianBlackbear said:

Again, you're assuming that P7 is the "worst," when that is an opinion. I'm done talking about the topic though. It's become a literal circle-jerk.

It's not an assumption when I clearly explained in great detail why Jason 7s "strengths" were nonstrengths and why his weaknesses were incredibly damning to his lackluster skills. The only thing you've stated are the words opinion and assumption instead of explaining to me why I'm wrong. Do you defend peoples "opinion" who swear the Earth is flat? 

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10 hours ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

Incorrect. It's that the two biggest names for "advanced players," Rydog and Pappus, promoted/still promote abusing bugs and glitches to players advantage. They had/have so much time on their hands they couldn't fathom that they could be wrong about what they considered to be a valid, ahem...

mooor.jpg

Spare me the gifs. I am incorrect how? That majority of the F13 player base is lacking in knowledge? Or that they have not welcomed gameplay analysis? Both are correct and you only need to look at the current threads and think back on previous ones, to know how vocal casuals have been against any kind of competitively-focused discussion. Which is selfish, as they want their narrow-minded experience to be the only experience. To date, Alkavian's Playbook thread is the only one I've seen in recent memory where there is some semblance of competitive discussion. 

Rydog and Pappus are the reason we have any hard data about the game, and it is ignorant to think otherwise. The meta is based on their knowledge, whether you directly learned from their guides or the information trickled down to you. While I didn't agree with all of their techniques, the foundations were solid. Now one doesn't even play the game and the other hates the F13 community (I don't blame either). Whether you see it or not, all of the advanced info you know and read is just appropriated from them. You don't have to like all of it, but to believe otherwise is just fooling yourself.

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@Tommy86 You are incorrect that the community does not encourage gameplay analysis. Gameplay analysis is fine, but promoting bugs and exploits is not. Pappus famously promoted using numerous bugs, and Rydog promoted at least one(the "abduction" glitch) but he seems to have a much better head about his shoulders then Pappus does. If they didn't analyze the game, someone else would have, make no mistake about that. We shouldn't say they are any better than the rest of the community simply because they had the time to make all those "guides." "Oh I made a guide therefore anything I say is valid and correct." No, no it's not. Don't give them or anybody special treatment just because they compiled a bunch of information.

Making guides is fine, analyzing gameplay is fine, but taking advantage of broken mechanics is not fine.

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50 minutes ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

You are incorrect that the community does not encourage gameplay analysis. Gameplay analysis is fine, but promoting bugs and exploits is not.

The line between advanced gameplay and bugs/exploits can be difficult to define. Thus, the way it is approached in every game is that providing there is a counter, it is legimitate until it is no longer possible (which is the devs' responsibility). Neither of them ever encouraged game-breaking exploits such as map-glitching for which there is no counter.

50 minutes ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

If they didn't analyze the game, someone else would have, make no mistake about that.

But they are the ones who did. And as no one else was inclined to do their job, you can't know that for sure. The best we had before that was only basic info appropriated from the game manual and description of mechanics that weren't even accurate. No one else had the inclination to run an actual data mine on the game.

50 minutes ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

We shouldn't say they are any better than the rest of the community simply because they had the time to make all those "guides." "Oh I made a guide therefore anything I say is valid and correct." No, no it's not.

Of course just because someone makes a guide doesn't automatically mean the guide is of any worth. What distinguishes Rydog and Pappus however is that their guides were backed up by hard, scientific evidence and they are both experienced at analysing games to this degree. Have you ever actually read or viewed their guides yourself? I think your opinion would change if you had.

50 minutes ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

Making guides is fine, analyzing gameplay is fine, but taking advantage of broken mechanics is not fine.

If you have problems with their methods it means you have problems with the way every other game is broken down at the technical and advanced level. All it comes down to is what is possible and whether there is a counter for it. Like I said, I didn't like all of their techniques but that is less on them and more on the developers for allowing mechanics to function in broken ways. If anything they simply exposed problems to the devs to be aware of (and which they still choose to largely ignore).

I'm also not inclined to criticise those who freely provide technical, scientific knowledge and ask for nothing in return. Both Rydog and Pappus were gracious to the community but were shown the door mainly because casuals didn't want the game to have a competitive side or were simply too narrow minded to understand it.  So instead we got bad advice and misinformation running around unchecked, and why a majority of players are still clueless.

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6 hours ago, VenomSymbiote said:

It's not an assumption when I clearly explained in great detail why Jason 7s "strengths" were nonstrengths and why his weaknesses were incredibly damning to his lackluster skills. The only thing you've stated are the words opinion and assumption instead of explaining to me why I'm wrong. Do you defend peoples "opinion" who swear the Earth is flat? 

I clearly stated my point and even agreed with you at one point. You don't have to turn into a sarcastic dick just because I don't agree with you 100%. My opinion is that P3 is the weakest. Yours is that P7 is the weakest. Everyone has their own opinion.

Show me data that says that P7 gets the fewest kills and lets the most survivors escape, and then we can talk about facts. 

And stop quoting me. I'm tired of notifications from this thread. It's a waste of time and energy. 

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14 minutes ago, Tommy86 said:

The line between advanced gameplay and bugs/exploits can be difficult to define. Thus, the way it is approached in every game is that providing there is a counter, it is legitimate until it is no longer possible (which is the devs' responsibility). Neither of them ever encouraged game-breaking exploits such as map-glitching for which there is no counter.

Oh so you're one of those types that believes anything in the game is valid, even if it's a glitch, until it's patched(excluding out of bounds). Well, you're just plain fucking wrong.

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6 minutes ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

Oh so you're one of those types that believes anything in the game is valid, even if it's a glitch, until it's patched(excluding out of bounds). Well, you're just plain fucking wrong.

And I can see you're one of those types who can't hold a discussion without letting emotions get in the way. I've done nothing but politely explain to you the other side of the argument. If you're not ready for that then think what you like, but know that outside of this community you would be in the minority. 

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