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Why part 7 Jason needs a BUFF

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7 hours ago, Tommy86 said:

Anyone who is supposedly having success with him is deluded if they think it's anything to do with Part 7's "strengths". They're just playing against bad counselors.

Timing and planning won't save you against a good team of counselors when you can neither pressure them nor adequately control objectives. You will either get left in the dust or you will get killed.

The reality is that everything you can do with J7, you can do with every other Jason much better. No reason to play him. 

PS: +Water Speed is not a factor. The only concern is boat escape which any decent Jason will be checking for via the map or by morphing periodically. Counselors have no defense in water so if Jason is onto them they are done. I've stopped the boat with every Jason, it's not an issue.

First off its extremely ignorant to say someone is deluded based on a response.

Second off I actually have been winning matches as Jason Part 7 people can validate this as well there aren't any bad counselors that I played with.

Third off  I have played against a swarm of players who tried to kill me as Jason even then I still won killing Tommy first and then the girl with the sweater I planned it because I knew the fear will rise faster if they stood near me EVEN with my MASK off I still got a 8/8.

I have played as every jason and I prefer Jason Part 7 and Part 9 as my killers.

P.S Cool? i dont need morphing or shifting to get the counselors at all in any boat.

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9 hours ago, NoOneK9503 said:

@Tommy86 Looks like I was right after all.

iguc4Q5.jpg

Credit goes to @Tattooey.

I'm not aware of testing that supports this,  but in any case, it makes little difference to me and it shouldn't make much to you either. Any Jason can Sense players around objectives which you should be regularly checking. Neither Sense nor Traps are reliable enough not to. That's the primary use for it. If I pick someone up in a random spot I'm not going to waste my time going after them, when chances are there are players way closer to where I need to defend. Wherever I'm currently at, there are only 2 other spots I need to be, and Sense is only relevant in proximity to them.

Jason's Sense also grows and by the time you have Rage all of them can pick up stragglers. What J7 does have which is unique to him is a bugged noise detection range (though it has nothing to do with Sense).  

6 hours ago, Jason Todd Voorhees said:

First off its extremely ignorant to say someone is deluded based on a response.

Second off I actually have been winning matches as Jason Part 7 people can validate this as well there aren't any bad counselors that I played with.

Third off  I have played against a swarm of players who tried to kill me as Jason even then I still won killing Tommy first and then the girl with the sweater I planned it because I knew the fear will rise faster if they stood near me EVEN with my MASK off I still got a 8/8.

I have played as every jason and I prefer Jason Part 7 and Part 9 as my killers.

P.S Cool? i dont need morphing or shifting to get the counselors at all in any boat.

I'm sorry if you feel offended by it but it is true. Your success has nothing to do with specifically J7. Read what you have written. Nowhere do you give examples such as "because of J7's (insert stat) I was able to overcome counselors" or "J7's (insert stat) helped me in x situation". So as I have said, just about everything you can do with J7 you can do with every other Jason much better. The only reason you would pick him for is aesthetic.

Even your example of beating a swarm of players about to kill you is worrying, since they shouldn't have even got that far. Your mask is off, you have a girl with a sweater, Tommy around and other counselors? What were you doing in the match? Any skilled team would've been able to kill you right there and then, and the fact that they didn't is not testament to J7's abilities.

PS: You don't need Morph to get to the boat? So what are you doing then, waiting in the water the whole match?

Look guys I'm not here to argue, but anyone who thinks J7 is of any worth is under an illusion. Those of you who are beating everyone with him are either not being truthful or you are playing against a lot of subpar counselors. If you haven't already started to see Jasons get regularly dominated in matches, you will soon. There is already a solid meta for this game and if you're doing yourself the disservice of ignoring it then it's going to be rough for you.

 

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On 9/18/2017 at 6:06 AM, tyrant666 said:

If boat escapes were actually made permanent. Water speed would be more beneficial as a strength.

Which is why I hope Crystal Point/Part 4 map is designed with Crystal Lake being the center of the map, which would help make water plus Jasons more desirable, in particular Part 7 with the rest of the map land being around the outer edge of the circle.

Even then though, grip strength is an irrelevant stat either way and sense can be toggled.

With the way the maps have been built, the lake would always only be one side of the map. They could make it a semi-circle but they can't put land all around it because then it wouldn't be part of crystal lake, it would be like, crystal pond.

My Jason 7 overhaul:

+Sense

+Water Speed

+Fear(2x fear rate)

-Stun Resistance

-Shift

-Can't Run

 

He gets 5 traps to control the map better and the 2x fear bonus makes it easier to exhaust counselors by keeping their stamina down and makes it easier to track them with Sense.

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I whole heartedly agree with whoever said anything Jason 7 can do, other Jasons can do better. Every one of his strengths are ones you'd give to a Jason as icing on the cake to his already badass skill. Any tactic you use as Jason 7 can be applied to any other, you'll get better results, and you'll actually be a menacing threat. He does not have a learning curve because said learning curve is just you learning how to use ALL Jasons. More accurately, you've learned how to do basic Jason things well. Apply them to other Jasons and you'll have a much much more fun time because you'll also have abilities that help you be a menacing fearful killer. 

My ideal Jason 7 would either add an ability that greatly increases his Rage charge rate, or if that isn't an option: 

Water speed, Morph, stalk

-run, stun resistance, Sense/shift. Don't like the idea of a -run and -shift Zombie Jason but it could work. Most certainly cannot work with what his stats currently are. Grip strength is pointless because you can either instantly kill them, or you can't. It doesn't make it hard enough for counselors to break free just to fish for a context kill. Sense, since every Jason can flick it off, is also helpful but not something you can base your entire skillset around. Especially when most Jasons have at least normal sense. Water speed is at least something Jason 7 should have because of the movie and because it's an actual worth while skill unlike grip and sense. Well ok sense isn't bad but again, can't make your whole skill set around it. 

I just feel that since in the movie Jason was seemingly everywhere all of the time, that a morphing Jason who can hide there waiting for a while would be fantastic for him. A spooky ghost man who could be around any corner. He'd at least make the counselors much more cautious instead of "oh lol it's Jason 7, don't worry guys just jog slowly away and juke if you see the vhs effect! ecks dee" 

Has GunMedia/Illfonic ever commented on if they care how bad Jason 7 is? Rather sad if they have no intentions of making him better. I can understand wanting Savini to be the best, but there's no reason for a Jason like 7 to have such a horrible mess of stats other than to have a Jason who is obviously the worst.

 

Edit: Also I think it was VoorheesAJolly who posted this link: 

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=960265710

It explains in detail why traits are good or bad, and looking over all of Jason 7s abilities will explain to you why everything he has is against him, both weaknesses and strengths. Because his strengths do barely anything to help him as a killer while his weaknesses severely hinder him. 

Edited by VenomSymbiote
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5 hours ago, Tommy86 said:

I'm sorry if you feel offended by it but it is true. Your success has nothing to do with specifically J7. Read what you have written. Nowhere do you give examples such as "because of J7's (insert stat) I was able to overcome counselors" or "J7's (insert stat) helped me in x situation". So as I have said, just about everything you can do with J7 you can do with every other Jason much better. The only reason you would pick him for is aesthetic.

Even your example of beating a swarm of players about to kill you is worrying, since they shouldn't have even got that far. Your mask is off, you have a girl with a sweater, Tommy around and other counselors? What were you doing in the match? Any skilled team would've been able to kill you right there and then, and the fact that they didn't is not testament to J7's abilities.

PS: You don't need Morph to get to the boat? So what are you doing then, waiting in the water the whole match?

Look guys I'm not here to argue, but anyone who thinks J7 is of any worth is under an illusion. Those of you who are beating everyone with him are either not being truthful or you are playing against a lot of subpar counselors. If you haven't already started to see Jasons get regularly dominated in matches, you will soon. There is already a solid meta for this game and if you're doing yourself the disservice of ignoring it then it's going to be rough for you.

 

1. I will accept your apology to a degree but i have to disagree......also i have to explain what I have to do?.....I do what anyone else does and plan out my kills.

2. It's a testament because i used my head using his machete to weaken the counselors and force the girl wearing the sweater before tommy even notices is a plan because then its useless and it's back to killing the others one by one...

PS no i morph ahead of them and when they are close I use his water speed perk against them taking them out easily.

WHY would I lie??? want me to video myself in a lobby? because if you need that much proof thats you because I chased people on a time limits and always got them by using my head.....I play as J7 because he is the least predictable jason.

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@VenomSymbiote agree with everything you're saying there. But I don't think any undead / non-running Jasons should have a minus on Shift though. That's just asking for trouble. Also yes that's the same guide I posted earlier, people would do well to read Rydog's stuff. So many players are just clueless about the game.

@Jason Todd Voorhees how is using your head testament to his abilities? Can you not use your head with any other Jason? Or if you've seen the boat moving and morph ahead, can you not catch it with any other Jason?

I don't see how he is the least predictable either. Quite the opposite. Everyone knows he has the worst mobility so they correctly predict he will have a hard time pressuring them. They also know he is minus traps so he will have a hard time controlling objectives. 

I don't think you're lying, I do believe you've probably had some good matches with him but it has nothing to do with J7, just the counselors you're facing. You are implying you are so good that his disadvantages do not affect you, when even the best player would be affected by them against a good team. He is basically a handicap for the match. But believe what you like.

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Getting everybody as Jason 7 doesn't mean he isn't the worst Jason. I've gotten everybody as him before, though mostly before his 5 to 3 trap "nerf" from beta to release. (Nerfing the already worst strengths Jason was a rather shitty move to begin with if you ask me.) I don't even want him to be Savini tier good, just on par with the other Jasons at least. Which he most certainly is not. 

If Gun and Illfonic are worried people who already like his stats would get upset they were tweaked, don't. Not only are his current stats barely stats at all, once they realize everything they do as Jason 7 can be applied to every single other Jason, and his possibly altered stats, they'll be happy. Except MAYBE water speed but again, every Jason can warp in front of the boat so even that ability is negligible. 

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For me, it's important that the developers make sure the Jasons remain true to their movies. I'm not saying they shouldn't balance them, but we need to keep in mind this isn't a super cerial ranked mode game. It's basically a game for the fans made by fans of the Friday the 13th series.

If I were to personally re-do the specs for Part 7 without making any major changes in gameplay (would love to one day see branch trimmers that can be picked up in the environment by Jason), then this would be my take:

Strengths

  • Water Speed
  • Advanced Sense (placeholder name)
  • Stalk

Weaknesses

  • Can't Run
  • Traps
  • Stun Resistance

Advanced Sense would incorporate the idea regarding his bugged abiliity to detect noise better. Besides the benefits of a regular Sense Strength, he also gains the abilty to detect noise better while his Sense ability is active (rather than all the time considering the bug). This way, when he toggles on Sense, he has more reasons to keep it on like a radar instead of always toggling it on/off to try finding counselors, and the longer duration makes it easier to do without burning that ability out too quickly. This Jason did have a habit of knowing exactly where everyone was at all times, so having a beefed up Sense ability makes sense. Water Speed is obvious, him being in the water and all, and he did spend a considerable amount of time silently murdering his prey before the end of the movie.

For weaknesses, this Jason didn't run, and traps weren't really a thing inside this movie (at least when compared to others). For a weakness in stun resistance, Jason noticeably was thrashed around by Tina near the end. Being choked by a cable, having his mask literately used as a weapon against him, and the infamous burning alive scene (in regards to Kane Hodder), all these are great references to the idea of him being stunned easier.

The big thing is that now Jason Part 7 doesn't have a shift weakness; he can stop the car if it tries to take off. Furthermore, with a beefed up Sense that can now detect noise better as a bonus (even max level stealth can't hide from him while they jog near him), he can find the counselors much easier, especially in Rage mode (Jason suffers a noise detection penalty in Rage mode for anyone who didn't already know this).

 

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@GunMedia_Ben, @wes, @Gertz

 

Sorry to bother you guys with these tags, but is there any chance of maybe making Part VII Jason actually worth using? Now that small maps are chosen a majority of the time while playing in public lobbies, Part VII Jason is worthless. No boat escape means water speed is literally useless. Grip strength was already a useless strength, since you can kill everybody long before they can break free anyway, and sense isn't great either. Sense is a pretty useless strength in regards to the duration being increased as most players just turn it off after a second or two. Shift being a weakness is kind of a joke. He can't run, which means shift is almost the only way undead Jasons can catch counselors in a chase. No undead Jason should have shift as a weakness. This is just my, and 95% of the player base's, opinion.

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24 minutes ago, TestedTwice said:

Sense is a pretty useless strength in regards to the duration being increased as most players just turn it off after a second or two.

+Sense also means larger Sense range to detect counselors.

And +Grip Strength is useful if you like using environmental kills (not that these 2 make Jason 7 useful).

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1 minute ago, NoOneK9503 said:

+Sense also means larger Sense range to detect counselors.

And +Grip Strength is useful if you like using environmental kills (not that these 2 make Jason 7 useful).

I don't find increased sense range very useful on a map that's 40% smaller.

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22 minutes ago, TestedTwice said:

I don't find increased sense range very useful on a map that's 40% smaller.

I agree. In this case, it could serve as an early Rage-like effect in Sense in the smaller maps.

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Honestly I always saw Part 7 as Hard Mode for the Jason player. You have to be really talented to get 8/8 kills. I like the challenge every know and then of using him =)

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3 hours ago, DeadManJoe said:

Honestly I always saw Part 7 as Hard Mode for the Jason player. You have to be really talented to get 8/8 kills. I like the challenge every know and then of using him =)

I prefer some Jason's having a learning curve. I play him for a challenge and still get 8/8. Playing any other Jason is easy mode now. 

Part of the problem with players is that they want Jason to have all this mobility. Not every Jason needs a +Shift or +Morph. It is bad enough that we have 3 Jason's with high shifts. 

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2 hours ago, AdrianBlackbear said:

I prefer some Jason's having a learning curve. I play him for a challenge and still get 8/8. Playing any other Jason is easy mode now. 

Part of the problem with players is that they want Jason to have all this mobility. Not every Jason needs a +Shift or +Morph. It is bad enough that we have 3 Jason's with high shifts. 

I’d say all Jasons are easy mode after the last patch. Except Part VII in my eyes. As I said, all of his strengths are useless in the small maps. He’s easier in the larger maps, but still annoying. If they’re going to put a “hard mode” Jason in the game, it should be another Jason; not the Jason that is arguably the best Jason in the franchise. Sometimes I feel like they made Part VII suck on purpose based on the lack of a response. Also, you guys represent the 5% that likes Part VII as he currently is. :P

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1 hour ago, TestedTwice said:

Sometimes I feel like they made Part VII suck on purpose based on the lack of a response. Also, you guys represent the 5% that likes Part VII as he currently is. :P

I absolutely feel this way. The other possible explanation, based on what I've read somewhere (which may have been Discord), is that originally Part 7 was supposed to have the grass trimmer weapon.

If that is the case, limiting his mobility might have made sense, since he would've had long weapon range and presumably the highest damage of all Jasons. So while he'd still have a hard time catching up to you, he would be highly dangerous once he did. 

So for whatever reasons, perhaps they just replaced the trimmer with machete, left his stats as they were and called it a day. Just a theory.

PS: someone should really merge all these J7 threads.

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6 hours ago, TestedTwice said:

I’d say all Jasons are easy mode after the last patch. Except Part VII in my eyes. As I said, all of his strengths are useless in the small maps. He’s easier in the larger maps, but still annoying. If they’re going to put a “hard mode” Jason in the game, it should be another Jason; not the Jason that is arguably the best Jason in the franchise. Sometimes I feel like they made Part VII suck on purpose based on the lack of a response. Also, you guys represent the 5% that likes Part VII as he currently is. :P

I totally know that, haha. It sucks because I like him as is. Sure, he can probably use a little tweaking. I can see it from your perspective, I just don't want anything drastic done to take him from least played to most played. 

I think part of the issue, like I mentioned earlier, is that he's not super mobile because everyone is used to having +Shift or +Morph. If one thing needs to be changed, it is grip strength. I would like to see that go, because if any Jason grabs you, you are likely not escaping. 

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5 hours ago, Tommy86 said:

The other possible explanation, based on what I've read somewhere (which may have been Discord), is that originally Part 7 was supposed to have the grass trimmer weapon.

That is totally true. @wes confirmed it somewhere. However, according to him, a tree trimmer would have a totally different door-breaking animation to be used instead of the standard one and that would cost a lot of money to be added (Part 7 was the first Jason to be included in the game). This and the extra kills (and creativity) they would need to have.

By the way my theory is that according to some forum users here, Part 7 Jason works well in the Higgins Heaven map due to the well positioned river. So, based on this, the developers thought his lack of mobility would've been compensated by his +Water Speed. However, they forgot that there are other maps. Maps where the water-predominant locations are not located strategically.

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18 hours ago, AdrianBlackbear said:

I totally know that, haha. It sucks because I like him as is. Sure, he can probably use a little tweaking. I can see it from your perspective, I just don't want anything drastic done to take him from least played to most played. 

I think part of the issue, like I mentioned earlier, is that he's not super mobile because everyone is used to having +Shift or +Morph. If one thing needs to be changed, it is grip strength. I would like to see that go, because if any Jason grabs you, you are likely not escaping. 

I don't think it fair to people who want their favorite Jason to be good to be ignored simply so others can feel good for getting a lot or all of the counselors with the worst Jason. Other than Savini every Jason should have a good balance of positive and negatives and as 7 is right now he has no style of play, no real benefit to other Jasons, outside of his glitched hearing range. Which honestly is negligible since every other Jasons actual decent bonuses compensate for this and then some. The only Jason that should be drastically different from the others is Savini, for obvious reasons. All the others should be on par and have their own play style. Everything you apply to Jason 7 can be applied to the other Jasons and you'll have far better tools at your disposal to deal with everything to boot. 

Gun and Illfonic haven't commented on Jason 7 as far as I know and I'm honestly getting pretty ticked off by that. If they have no intention of ever changing him just come out and say it so people don't bother asking for it. 

 

They'd still ask for it because fuck his terrible stats. 

Edited by VenomSymbiote

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I would be upset if they removed his water speed as a strength if the Part 8 map were literally Lazurus as some suspect and the counselors had to navigate the water without choice.

Maybe each Jason should have 4 strengths and weaknesses as @VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow suggested.

Or make can run a hidden strength for Human Jason and +Water Speed a hidden strength for undead Jasons with Savini being the exception. Then again, Part 4 was nifty in water.

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I don't think anyone wants water speed removed from Jason 7. It's a much better bonus than either sense and grip. Sad thing is you cannot base an entire play style around water speed, sense, grip strength, or even all three together. 

To me it feels like there's obvious really good skills, then obvious really bad ones. This is just me tossing them out there so I'm not giving it a ton of thought but it's something like:

Destruction, shift, traps, weapon damage, all seem like some of the best skills. 

Morph, stalk, run, knives, all good in some way and help flesh out a Jason. Several of these can make up a great move set on their own. 

Stun, defense, sense, grip, water speed, etc are all skills that you'd give to a Jason that already has one or two really good skills. They're a minor boost or very situational so you cannot make a whole Jason out of these because if any Jason has at least one of the top or mid tier skills you're better off using them. Sadly, this is where Jason 7 currently resides. All of his positives come from the bottom tier, and all of his negatives come from the top tier plus -run. I'm baffled how this Jason was greenlit with the stats he has unless it turns out the theory that these skills were to offset his insanely strong tree trimmer weapon were true. If that was the case though then they really should have redid his skills to reflect the change. 

Edited by VenomSymbiote

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