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Team Killing/Friendly Fire, Lets bring it back (Poll)

Bring Back Team Killing - With some fixes  

147 members have voted

  1. 1. Should they bring back Team Killing (if they added something like a kick for killing more than 1 player, or marking you for death by other players after doing so)

    • Yes, Please bring back Team Killing for Public Matchs (But make some fixes)
    • No, We are fine with the new changes.


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I can't see this working with how the state of the game is now.

 

This game has an increased number of trolls in recent memory and it is quite concerning to have to play with these people when given the power to cripple your chances for troll reasons.

 

The only way I think friendly fire should be done is in private matches as an on/off option.

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I think friendly fire should come back.

Yes, it sucked at times when you had that one asshat that felt the need to betray, and yes it sucked at times when you had a Jason teamer.

But I have a scenario for you that happened to me on the PS4, and this is why it was fun.

8 Counselors including Tommy. Everyone was dead except for three of us. The car was trapped. The boat was not. I was the one who was screwed because the car parts were who knows where, and two counselors were getting on the boat. Now, would I rather die or would I rather live? I had a shotgun, so I blew Tommy's brains out so that I could take over the boat and escape. On top of that, Tommy's passenger tried to attack me. By that point I was in the boat, he was in the dock, Jason got his kill.

If I hadn't killed Tommy, I would have died to Jason. Self preservation.

In Friday the 13th Part 7 that slimy doctor put Tina's mother into Jason's path first in an attempt to save his own ass. People should be able to do that in this game, and I'd say friendly fire allows for that kind of thing.

Nowadays I'd argue the "fear" from the game comes from being isolated from your other counselors while being hunted by Jason, because when all the counselors can group up and spam swing and not hurt each other it takes the bite out of the suspense and intensity.

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I've noticed all naysayers to friendly fire have no firm backing other than choosing to remain in lobbies with griefers and are utterly refusing to even discuss it at length for the most part.

I'm glad I don't play games with you.

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@Rexfellis You could say the same about using the dodge to avoid a shotgun or a machete, but this would entail having to suspect everybody in the game will try to kill you. Totally different than one person driving a car and being suspect. You can see the car coming on your mini map.... you already know if it hits you, you will die... so caution is assumed (like in real life... you have no idea if the driver of an oncoming car is paying attention or has seen you. No evil intent, but it still hits and kills you because you were not paying attention). Also a lot easier to dodge the car than a shotgun, cars are not as maneuverable as a counselor and there are a lot of things, like trees and rocks that you can easily keep between yourself and the car. You can see other counselors on the map, but you cannot tell if they are out to kill you until they try. Should we now have to run from everybody in the game? If they are playing a faster runner with higher luck... like Chad or Vanessa and you are playing a repair counselor... who has high luck or speed in this category? No one. Advantage.... troll. Weapon durability, advantage... troll. Speed, advantage... troll. stamina, advantage... troll. With all of these advantages, how does the low luck, low speed, low stamina counselor have a chance? Combat experience only. This could lead into a long, dragged out fight of blocks, dodges and counterattacks that is to no one's advantage, except Jason's. Or it could be a very short combat experience due to a repair counselor's low luck. Several of them would have their weapons break before they could even manage to kill the 'troll'.
   You will take note.... new players generally take a while to master the combat system of this, or any other game (a first person shooter is an exception, if you played one... you played them all). With all the trolls that have been around for a while who have gotten pretty damned good at the combat system.... how many new players to the game, (including some people that have been playing for a while but have not mastered the combat in game for whatever reason) will be lost? Permanently.... never to return out of frustration?
   You and I may be fairly safe from this playing with friends with only the odd random coming into a game. A great many people cannot say the same. 
   I am not against friendly fire if there is a choice to have it on and off and is agreed upon by the majority of the lobby. There are still private matches for this anyway. There are many times I play that none of my friends are even online. I do not wish to be forced into this type of game when there is already an option for those that want it. Most of my friends refuse to play in private matches anyway due to the friendly fire, but we have tried a couple times. It was fun, because everyone wanted to do it. It is an element of realism, but I would rather see realism like: one hit from an axe putting a person down, permanently with no magical spray to seal wounds and mend broken bones, but.... game balance and all.
    The games you listed as having friendly fire damage, I have only played left for dead 2. To have friendly fire is a choice, realism mode I think (its been a while). I tried many times to get people to play this mode with me.... when I finally did get someone to do it, we almost never survived and this is not because there were trolls involved, just people with crappy aim. Almost never bothered with it after trying it a few times because it was generally frustrating, but on occasion I did like the challenge of it. However, I could never find others that had enough skill to bother with it and quickly gave up on that mode in that game. With random people, it is impossible to tell if they have any skill, or are 'trolls' until you play with them.
    As to your theory of 'friends' trying to injure you to leave you for the killer. I am not sure what kind of friends you have, but those are not the types of people that I would call 'friend'. Me and many of my friends were in some freaky situations when we were younger and I can guarantee it would not work out well for any one of them that tried anything that vaguely resembled that kind of behavior. I fully understand that humans suck.... or trolls would not be needed as a term to describe crappy behavior. But friends are people that have built mutual respect and trust between each other. I am the first to step up and put myself in between a friend and a threat to their health..... and my friends have done the same for me many times over the years, even when I didn't want, or need them to.
             Sorry for the length of the post..... I tend to ramble on sometimes.....

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No.Sadly, some things you cant trust the community with handling properly ,We may blame the devs a lot but some actions are on us ,Its just .....

 

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On 1/5/2018 at 10:22 AM, Mr. Blonde said:

Friendly fire was one of the most underrated core reasons that indirectly made Jason a stronger threat when he arrived and it also made playing counselors more challenging. During the friendly fire era, you couldn't just gather up like a pack of sardines and start mindlessly swinging with no care for the direction of your fire like you can currently in this botched up version of 'Friday the 13th: The Pinata'. Friendly Fire being an element of the game forced you to play better as the counselor, it forced you to have better aim, it forced you to have stronger team mate awareness, and it forced you to create and play off better positioning as a team. And in the same playing field, Jason could also utilize friendly fire by swerving in a defensive direction towards other counselors to create bait & panic situations, which sometimes would fluster counselors into accidentally hitting one another. Split moments like these would often give the Jason player the opportunity to strike or make a move that he could capitalize on when up against groups.

The problem was never Friendly Fire on it's own, the problem was the way that Gunmedia executed it that made it not fun to play against. It wasn't fun when you had a bitter troll trying to kill the team secretly one by one, and it also most definitely wasn't fun on the Jason side of things when your kills were stolen from grievers with shotguns and the likes. 

 

So here is the proposal of how Gunmedia can re-introduce Friendly Fire to the game, while also severely limiting the troll and anti-Jason kill steals.

Friendly Fire:

  • Counselors can no longer be killed by another counselor with a melee weapon (the finishing blow can only be performed by Jason)
  • Shotguns no longer instantly kill a counselor, they will just leave them in a crippled state of movement with lowest health.
  • Counselor placed bear traps no longer can kill a counselor, they will just leave them in a crippled state of movement with lowest health.
  • Cars no longer instantly kill a counselor, they will just knock them down and then when they get up, they will be in a crippled state of movement with lowest health.
  • Suicide can no longer be performed by windows or second story jumps. It will just whittle your health down to lowest possible number.
  • Any counselor who makes another counselor enter "cripple" state (except for bear traps) will receive the -500 penalty that "Betrayal" currently has at the end of the match.

I agree with all of the Friendly Fire points, except for one. Suicide from a window is NOT for dealing with friendly fire or the like, rather it's to keep people from endlessly hopping through the window, thus kiting Jason, making the match last way longer than it should, and providing a lot of rage for players. Everything else is a good idea though!

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Friendly Fire is fine on Private matches.
Friendly fire will never be OK in Quick Play due to high quantity of trolls. 

End

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I dunno, I feel like this post is just meant to make friendly fire in Jason’s advantage, which is unnecessary. I liked friendly fire, but for different reasons.

1. You could “remove” trolls

2. It would make Life or Death moments with escape methods, and add a sense of betrayal. If somebody’s getting in the passenger door side at the Two Seater, you could make them “give up” their seat with the gun and escape. Not all charactes in the Friday films were good eggs after all, and wouldn’t think twice in a kill or be killed moment (which is probably why there was team killing).

Just wanted to give my thoughts, not looking to start any conflict. If you think otherwise, that’s fine, but you probably won’t sway my opinion.

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The only way i would like to see it back is under the conditions of what @Mr. Blonde

listed, and for those mowing folks down in the car after second in a match kick the player, count him/her as killed, give the xp to jason for them being kicked and do a soft incremental ban likr 5 min first kick, 10 min second kick etc like COD on the hardcore modes.

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I'll say what I said back when everyone was talking about how there were zero downsides to removing friendly fire: it's enabled gangbanging Jason in ways never possible when counselors could hurt each other with shotgun blasts and weapon swings.


The way to fix it is to enable FF within X distance of Jason, with X being just far enough to cover a group whaling on him with melee weapons. That covers the ridiculous 'I'll free Tommy by blasting him and Jason with deadly buckshot, leaving Tommy miraculously unharmed!' scenario, without the undue limitations of only enabling FF for counselors who have been grabbed.
 

This will still allow limited trolling, but I'd rather have the occasional corner case go bad than constant BS like now. It's easily mitigated by making FF kills count as a betrayal (-1000XP to the offender) while still counting the death as a kill (+100XP) for Jason. 

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they should just make a hardcore mode like in COD AND BATTLEFIELD where you can teamkill. have jason start off with all his abilities on even rage mode. and turn off escape locations on the map. and show on map who has each item that way if you wanna steal it you know where to go

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The only issue I ever had with Friendly Fire was accidentally shooting people who were being held by Jason. So I see this as a good idea.

I never really encountered that much trolls using friendly fire for anything but helping Jason, and they can still do that anyway, just more indirectly.

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On 17.3.2018 at 7:55 PM, NthnButAGoodTime said:

It appears we have a difference of opinion on the value of an old element. 

From my perspective, I rarely had someone attack me unexpectedly, and could defend myself when it did happen. This promoted my to keep my guard up when I was playing with strangers, which heightened the tension. While I can't speak to your experience, my statement was true for me. 

Whether to or not friendly fire returns is immaterial to me. I simply liked the idea presented in the OP.

i barley can believe that. why? because i had 90% of my games where at least one teamkill happened just for the sake of it. got killed for no reason so often back then, would have stopped playing if it wasn´t removed. Even fkn 50xp at the radio calling tommy was a reason to kill others.

also the cryfest back then says that your experience is rather unusal. can´t help thinking people who claim teamkilling wasn´t so bad, either didn´t play a lot back then and were lucky or try to get tk back because they were the ones tking for fun.

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2 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

i barley can believe that. why? because i had 90% of my games where at least one teamkill happened just for the sake of it. got killed for no reason so often back then, would have stopped playing if it wasn´t removed. Even fkn 50xp at the radio calling tommy was a reason to kill others.

also the cryfest back then says that your experience is rather unusal. can´t help thinking people who claim teamkilling wasn´t so bad, either didn´t play a lot back then and were lucky or try to get tk back because they were the ones tking for fun.

:) To be fair, my opinion on the matter is still documented from before friendly-fire was patched out. So if you truly don't believe it, you can read from my old posts (I've curated a few below). I was around for the"cryfest" (your word) and I spoke to my experience back then.

I never saw the game element as the problem, simply the abuse of it. I thought then, and still think now that a cool-off lobby for frequent team-killers would have been better than diluting the game. 

I can't speak to percentages, but I feel confident that my experiences did not include "Betrayed" showing up in 90% of the lobbies I was in(or anywhere even close to that). If that was your experience, they absolutely differed from each other.

On 8/8/2017 at 1:50 PM, NthnButAGoodTime said:

The only times I've felt helpless against friendly fire was when a player honked the horn to offer a ride and then mowed me and everyone else down with the car, once we were out in the open. I can fight off a machete wielding counselor. I'm out of luck against a car.

Trolls will still use a lock against friendly fire to their advantage, either boxing in a car with their bodies or holding onto key items, knowing you can't possible take them back. Toggling friendly fire just gives them a different way to frustrate you.

[In this post I pointed out the kind of behavior that would eventually lead to the addition of objective item icons on the map.]

On 8/8/2017 at 9:02 AM, NthnButAGoodTime said:

I still don't see team killing as bad for the game overall.

Let me first state, it is not a tactic I employ. On the occasion that Betrayed has appeared in the recap and I had the penalty XP loss, I can only assume it was from a someone wandering into a trap I had laid. The only times I have intentionally swung a weapon at a fellow counselor was in self defense from team kill attempts, and even still, my aim is to reduce the chance of pursuit, not death....except the one time I was in a Private Match and everyone agreed ahead of time to a Battle Royale (Never been in one of those in a Private? You should try it).

This is a horror game, and the uncertainty of the motives of other counselors increases the tension. I have found the battery as a Buggzy and have had to ask a Deborah with the rifle to trade so I can guard her while she installs. I have heard the hesitation in the other player's voice as they weigh out whether or not I sound like I can be trusted. I know that as I ready my weapon they are wondering if I'm going to wait until they start the install and the shoot them. The trust I earned after that made for a great round of teamwork. I have seen players in a dead sprint with a machete in hand with no Jason music and have had to guess whether or not they're going to be trouble. 

The heightened tension and uncertainty of trust comes straight out of the movies this game is based on, and I enjoy it. This is merely my opinion.

[In this one, I'm banging the same "horror" and "tension" drum that I've tapped on in the current thread.]

Again, I don't live or die by friendly-fire returning, I just liked the idea in the OP.:)

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The opinions in this thread seem to be incredibly divided, it makes me think that for the experiences of both sides to be true some other factor must play apart. Maybe the time when your playing, I know that when it hits about four o'clock for me I see an uptick in lone wolfing, no mics and squeakers. I can imagine if team killing still existed in QP, changing my tactics, and becoming a whole lot more paranoid in the evening. 

I would like the Devs to seriously consider the lobby/cabin idea that was on the kickstarter. That way we could have a greater choice of options about what we want in a map. It could work a number of ways but I picture leaving the lobby through the front door if you don't want team killing, and taking the backdoor if you do. (This is unintentionally funny, I'm going to leave it)

It does sound like the change didn't necessarily fix any problem, it just changed how the trolls, troll. Maybe it deserves a second look, but It should be optional, the players who really had it rough don't deserve to be forced to choose between going back or quitting.

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On 3/20/2018 at 9:02 AM, Slasher_Clone said:

The opinions in this thread seem to be incredibly divided, it makes me think that for the experiences of both sides to be true some other factor must play apart. Maybe the time when your playing, I know that when it hits about four o'clock for me I see an uptick in lone wolfing, no mics and squeakers. I can imagine if team killing still existed in QP, changing my tactics, and becoming a whole lot more paranoid in the evening. 

I have a feeling that you have hit the nail on the head. There are a few anti-friendly-fire players that I never seemed to sync up with on Playstation, even though we were friends. The chances that they were playing during a different time slot, and were therefore experiencing a different crowd, is extraordinarily likely.

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When the game first started, I must admit I did sometimes team kill. I remember killing a guy and stealing his space on the boat...I felt pretty bad bout that one. I'm glad team killing was taken away. It creates a very toxic gaming session.

Plus it sucks as Jason when you check the status and half the room have been betrayed. Definitely rage quit material

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I like all of the ideas and even though I don't think it will solve F13's griefing, it should cause some drop off.  The Jason helpers will benefit from this most, however- leaving you in a crippled state only for Jason to pick you off.  If implemented, maybe bump up the first aid spray spawns?

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The only way I'd want it in the game is if you can choose servers with it enabled, so you can take it or leave it if that's your bag.  To play it as mandatory in every match would be fucking terrible. 

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In almost an entire year of playing I have maybe played, like, less than 10 quickplay matches. So I've never really played without friendly fire, to be honest. But I think the suggestions in the original post make a lot of sense.

I will say that I wish they would re-implement the option to turn friendly fire on or off, like they had at the very beginning. It seems odd that they haven't done so.

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Play private matches with Friendly fire on. You win.
There is nothing that would stop it from being troll heaven in Quick play. NOTHING.  This is such a simple thing. It can't come back.

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People that want friendly fire are the people who have no friends to play private matches.

Quick play can be cancer. Leaving it off is the best choice. There are too many idiots that would go back and play that dumb shit again.

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The removal of friendly-fire has introduced the Jason piñata, as councelors need not worry about hitting each other, and swing continuously.  If there was an in-game reporting system for all platforms, and the game saved specific information in regards to such attacks that could be used to prove trolling, then the following idea would work:

At the end of any game that contained friendly-fire, everyone in the match would be asked, “Did player X attack <list of players> with purposeful intent to do harm to those players?”  If the majority of players in the lobby voted “Yes”, then the points that the player would have received would be held in escrow, and a report would be auto-generated for investigation.  If the gamer in question is in a party, you might want to consider lessening the votes of everyone in the party.  If the gamer playing Jason is not in a party, then you might want to consider adding weight to his vote.  Part of the report should include who is in a party with whom.  This would also allow for the investigation of teamers.

For players who have multiple reports against them that have yet to be investigated, trigger levels could institute temporary bans until the investigations are completed and move those investigations to the top of the list.  If the reports turned out to be false, the points in escrow would be returned to the player, and investigations for missuse of the system would begin for every player who voted “Yes”.  As long as repeat offenders can be permanently banned, and are, this system would be fair to all.

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First off, no one using the Slasher theme for this forum will be able to read your post. Secondly, this topic has been brought up numerous times. here is a 5 page thread on it.

Hope that helps.

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