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First, allow me to say that I've been hearing this not only on this forum, but many message boards and it is most definitely the biggest elephant in the room regarding strict game-play concerns. Getting right into the topic; SHIFT-GRAB INTO INSTANT KILLS IS NOT OVERPOWERED. It may seem like an overpowered cheesy tactic at first, but over time in the context of the actual game through higher levels later down the road, it is actually needed to keep Jason "competitive". I cannot fathom with how many players come to the conclusion of "wow, this tactic is so unfair and should be removed" by playing random pub games online or a night with friends. Have any of you actually ever played against an entire team of COMPETITIVE counselors that know what they're doing and how to play the game at a very serious level? It is very difficult to stop a team from surviving in this game and over the course of getting to play against MANY competitive players together (some very good old school team-orientated survival competitive players over the years from LEFT 4 DEAD, DBD, etc.) Once you are put to the test against SEVEN OTHER competitive survivors constantly and grinding the games in and out, you realize some of the flaws and disadvantages that a team can pick apart and abuse on the Jason user. And NO, I am not talking about searching in public games randomly until you find a team of people using "mics", it's much deeper and more complicated than that. Let's quickly breakdown why shift-grab deaths are needed: 1.) It's Jason's best and only way to successfully kill a counselor more often than not (unless they have a pocket knife, which completely negates this option) wasting 2-3 minutes trying to kill a counselor juking, stalling, or receiving your full attention is VERY detrimental to the overall pace of the game and most often must be abandoned to multi-task other areas and ensure openings do not happen. Keep in mind you only have 20 minutes to kill each survivor, so you can't possibly spend close to three minutes trying to chase, attack, and kill each one. 2.) Counselors out run and maneuver Jason throughout most of the game which would make him almost completely useless if it were not for skills such as morphing, shifting, and throwing knives. Map morphing and throwing knives while they are indeed "options", are in no way reliable or comparable to the viability of shift. A counselor that knows what they're doing is going to be zig-zagging, feinting, cross-path juking, bluffing their movements, 180 quick turns, etc. which Jason it is not as simple as "just shift grab and kill", you must PREDICT the counselors movements ahead of time and make a BALLSY read which forces you to COMMIT. Yes, it is easy to grab predictable players in public search that don't have many hours put into the game and are just playing on their Friday night off for some fun. It is entirely different to successfully grab and read movements from a competitive player that knows the map and generated random layouts in and out. 3.) Against competitive groups playing together the tactical stalling and defense trying to make an open can be severely difficult and time consuming which is why banking for a shift-grab kill every time it's off cooldown is sometimes the ONLY offense opportunity you can get. If they have weapons, flare guns, shotgun, firecrackers, etc. this is all going to be very time consuming and force each of your attempts in a manner of "make it count". Let me ask you, how on Earth would you (as Jason) even attempt to kill a team of counselors together with melee items such as bats, machete, etc. without shift grab? You are most likely going to be eating a LOT of stuns and wasting a LOT of valuable time in which other counselors can heavily take advantage of the scenario. It is not fun and very demoralizing. Especially in the way that this scenario is quite common and easy to recreate at high levels. 4.) You must multi-task the map and always be aware of other counselors and their options, agendas, and what their plans may be. ALWAYS have to keep the house with the phone section trapped, and be knowledgeable as a few seconds off your focus shift could mean a VERY bad and early game with a call getting through. This means as Jason the most optimal way to play is with background noise boosted so you can hear if phone is tethered, picked up, car engine starting, etc. BY THE WAY (IMPORTANT) - The negative penalties of 'sound ques' of counselors messing up with gas, battery, etc. barely does not happen at a high and competitive level as counselors with high repair are almost ALWAYS in charge of performing these duties and have cover to back them. 5.) PERKS, MY GOD PERKS! If there's something you want to complain that is actually "OP", well here you go! Before you read this section KEEP IN MIND that everything prior to this and strictly based on if "Jason shift grab is OP" or not has been conducted and tested WITHOUT THE USE OF PERKS! We attempted to play some "high level competitive" F13 using some of the best perks... and well let's just say the games did not end up being very competitive and was more of a headache and disaster for the Jason player way too many times than not. Having seven competitive players start with Epic Perk Double healing and First Aid sprays is COMPLETELY BROKEN and made if you did not instant kill a counselor with shift-grab, you had virtually no chance to overall damage, cripple, and kill a counselor. Total imbalance with perks which I'm sure that is how the developers intended to be and not directly affect the core balance of the game. I'm sure it can get much worse with combination of perks amongst a team of seven counselors. Look, we understand F13 is not meant to be played with eight competitive players playing as if it were an actual tournament or the finals play offs to something similar to a superbowl. We know that F13 is mainly made for public game searching, having fun with strangers, and seeing hectic things go afloat that Jason takes advantage of. In public games as counselors you have to worry about team killers (friendly fire), people not knowing the map, players with not much experience / hours, terrible decision makers, lone wolves, language barriers etc. etc. These are all natural pub problems that do NOT EXIST in a competitive environment of a full team of players playing F13 together which is probably what makes it so excruciatingly hard for Jason. Here's the catch, we believe a team of counselors playing properly gives Jason a MUCH more difficult time with the ratio being they TOO OFTEN survive with a few being shift-grabbed killed (if it happens). We think F13 is a VERY FUN and enjoyable game we just wish it was a bit more balanced for the higher level players who like to play games very seriously and competitively. Would some smaller buffs to Jason and some fixes to things we think this game will be AMAZING at a competitive level. Jason could use some buffs or reworks and I hope if any developers read this they may think of possible ideas to implement or something they like here: JASON BUFFS FOR FUTURE: 1.) THROWING KNIVES - They're good for what they are but main downside is sometimes it can be too time consuming to pick one up unless you're just waiting for morph to appear back and there happens to be a knife next to your current location. They also do not have any headshot advantages and sometimes it takes three or more knife tosses to have a counselor enter "cripple" state. - Having a bit less of a collecting animation and recovery. (or add this as a possible perk for a new Jason) - Inflicting more damage. Two throwing knives to the chest area seems reasonable to always put a counselor in cripple state. (or add this as a possible perk for a new Jason) - Add headshot capabilities with throwing knives that will either instant kill a counselor or immediately put them in the cripple state if headshot. (or add this as a possible perk for a new Jason) 2.) TRAPS - Ability to recover or pick up traps (or add this as a possible perk for a new Jason) - Ability to place down a "fake" bait trap with just leaves. These could be set to expire after 30 seconds to a minute or so to prevent abuse. Max of two "fake" traps out at a time. (or add this as a possible perk for a new Jason) - Ability to place traps on the boat dock 3.) TIMER - Add lobby option or ability to increase timer from 20 minutes to 25 minutes or 30 minutes for players that want a bit of a challenge (or add this as a possible perk for a new Jason) 4.) "Ki, ki ki, ma, ma, ma" - Give Jason a new ability to create fog on the map that will make the counselors mini-map on screen freeze temporarily or for him to select an "area" on the map to engulf in fog and the "Ki, ki, ki, ma, ma, ma" sound queus. This would be used as a bait to alert or potential scare / play mindgames with a group of survivors at a part of the map to make them THINK you're there and maybe force them to play defensively WHILE you deal with the current group or have them flee their original plans. In the fog area Jason sounds alert music would be disabled so this would make it ambiguous. Right now, there is NO way to effectively deal with two groups of survivors on a mission, you have to pick and choose your poison and let one of them get away with doing something. This would be a great alternative to add an extra layer or mindgames that counselors would have to think about and buy the bluff or not. That is all for now. Thanks for reading. Back to playing more F13... If any of you are curious or believe "Jason shift-grab is OP and must go", I invite you to PLEASE COME PLAY with my group and we will guarantee after some games you will start to see it is very different when you're up against a group of competitive counselors and not random casuals in public search strictly playing to have some fun. None of us run any perks while playing, we all play the game with vanilla counselor stats and defaults to not skew balance and keep it on even and consistent playing fields. We all play on Steam (PC) and we have a serious group of over ten competitive players pouring hours and hours into this game each day grinding together.