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AJLeatherman

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Everything posted by AJLeatherman

  1. To get back to the original point of the thread: -Whenever somebody on the forum talks about how [something's that obviously trolling] isn't REALLY trolling, it's probably because they're a troll. -Whenever somebody talks about "missing" TK, or were defending TK when it was allowed, it's probably because they're a troll. -Whenever somebody talks about how they hate it when people use the term troll, it's probably because they're a troll.
  2. Funny, I just observed something along those lines. I was a dead counselor pretty early on, so I watched as the rest of the counselors were doing typical troll behavior - teabagging, dancing, chain-stunning, joy riding the car but not escaping with it, etc. So eventually they knock Jason's mask off and get the sweater, and Jason just disappears - presumably in the lake, but wherever he was, he was avoiding any and all contact with Tommy and Sweater Girl, and making zero attempts to confront them, let alone go for a kill. So of course, time runs out, and the same people who had been trolling Jason nonstop the whole time suddenly start complaining about how Jason "bitched out", and the Jason (who apparently had a mic but had been silent up until then) just laughs and says "Yeah, kinda sucks when you want to play the game and the other people in the room just wanna f--k around with you, huh?" Sadly, that's where much of the community for this game falls right now - it's largely trolls vs other trolls, and those of us who just want to play the game right get caught in a trolling crossfire.
  3. It's a great idea in theory, but unfortunately, with all of the other connection/server issues, it's very difficult to differentiate between hosts or Jasons who leave due to "Connection Timed Out", and other involuntary issues, and legitimate rage-quitters. So if I'm a Jason, and all of a sudden my buttons become unresponsive and I eventually get the "Connection Timed Out" error (something that's actually happened to me 3-4 times this weekend alone) and get kicked, would the "Salt Mines" system be able to tell that I didn't rage quit, or would I get penalized for something I have no control over? I love the idea of Salt Mines, but only if it's run perfectly and fairly, which I wouldn't have a ton of confidence in being the case.
  4. Teamkilling was a much, much worst problem, not a solution to anything. For every one person that would kill somebody exploiting on the roof, you'd have a dozen just killing other counselors as a way to troll. I still have idiots trying to teamkill even this long after they did away with it, so imagine trying to play the game when you had to avoid all other counselors as well as Jason? I haven't run across the roof exploit in game recently, but if it starts to become a problem, I'll just avoid Packanack map in public games until they fix it.
  5. I'm guessing that at launch, people were more concerned with just finishing or "winning", regardless of how cheap it was. And also, the Jasons at launch didn't have the experience yet to know how to find them. Now, most Jasons will find the hiders before time runs out, and most player would be bored to death hiding that long anyway, so it's a problem that (at least in my own personal experiences) seems to eventually solve itself.
  6. Personally, I can usually get into a lobby of 6+ people in under a minute. So I'd rather take that very slight bit of time to get into a new lobby with good players, than have to play under a troll's "rules" in order to stay in a lobby full of bad players, but to each their own.
  7. That's where we disagree - if it's a room where the host or the potential Jasons are that toxic that they'll bail out for petty reasons like that, I'd rather find out immediately, get kicked, and then start over in a hopefully better room. I don't want to waste my time for 10+ minutes and then have the host or Jason quit anyway (or start dancing/teabagging/trolling - because all those behaviors seem to go together) And I'm not going to adjust the way I play the game just to pacify the rage-quitters. Because if a guy will quit because you killed him first, he's probably going to quit anyway - maybe because you killed him right before he could fix the phone, or you killed him with a shift-grab, or because he was injured out in the open without a health spray and was ABOUT to get killed. A bad player is a bad player, and trying to appease a bad player is just putting off the inevitable. Better to get out of the room (either voluntarily or by getting kicked) and start fresh with a room filled with players who (hopefully) don't suck.
  8. I play on PS4, and although there's occasionally annoying (but not game-killing) bugs like glitchy kill animations, the OVERWHELMING majority of "problems" are caused by counselor players either resorting to annoying "gimmicks" (doing pinata stunning on Jason, joy riding the car and refusing to escape, teaming with Jason, comitting to Ring Around The Rosie in small cabins, etc.), or just outright trolling the entire time - both Jason and the other counselors. I had a counselor the other night just follow me around the whole game just to troll for no reason - I'd go in a cabin and barricade the door, they'd open it back up. they'd stand in the doorway to the next room, and make me either try to nudge them out of the way, or go around a different way. I'd come across a cabin with an openable window, and they'd run up ahead of me and stand in front of it so I'd have to go around them a different way, etc. And the weird thing is, when Jason found us, he killed the troll immediately, so it wasn't even a case of them teaming with Jason to help kill the counselors, he was JUST trolling for the sake of trolling. There's been cases recently where I've actually quit games as a living counselor, just because the room was filled with toxic players. THAT is the biggest problem with the game IMO (at least on PS4, can't speak on PC or other consoles) , is the toxic players who are just hellbent on trolling/taunting/exploiting instead of just having a good time trying to win the game. The devs could have had the game running 100% perfect from day one, and these idiots would still be a major problem.
  9. I disagree on the phone/car/host stuff - that's IMO playing the game as it was designed to be played and trying to win. If I'm Jason and I find a counselor out in the open at the fist spot I morph to, I'm not going to let him go because he's host. Likewise, If I'm a counselor and I spawn in front of the phone house, and find the fuse IN the house, I'm not going to just run around randomly for 5-10 minutes so I don't fix the phone "too early". In both cases, I'm playing to win. But I 100% agree about trolling/taunting Jason. If you repair the car, and instead of escaping, decide to joy ride around the map, or drive just far enough in front of Jason to honk the horn at him, I can't blame him if he rage quits. Or if you commit to a "ring around the rosie" gimmick in a small cabin, do the "jog just far enough in front of Jason so you can catch him in a grab animation and dance/teabag repeatedly", etc., then you have no right to complain about Jason being a pussy if he quits, because guess what - you're being a pussy too! Trolls have no right to be upset at other players trolling back at them. Whether Jason or Counselor, just play the game to try to win, not to troll/taunt. All that does is drive even more players away from the game.
  10. I just had multiple players complaining that I was NOT cooperating with them as Jason when I killed one of them right before they escaped - "Lame man, you just can't let a noob get out and get a few more XP?" Then they complained that I wasn't talking on my mic while I was Jason. I just don't get a lot of people in this community, when they start bitching about you for NOT cheating and shit-talking during the game.
  11. ANY bug/exploit can be "countered", that doesn't mean they're not legitimate problems that need to be fixed. Hell, we could have said "Don't like the Packanack roof glitch? Just don't play that map", or "Don't like being rubber banded exiting the car? Just don't exit the car when Jason's around." Any toe-to-toe counselor vs. Jason fights should end with Jason winning like 99% of the time, so when counselors can regularly perform fearless attacks on Jason because of chain-stuns, it's a problem. When some counselors can (either due to perks or exploits) knock off Jason's mask in just a small number of blows, that's a problem. Defeating Jason in any manner should be a very difficult task that requires strategy and teamwork among multiple skilled players to even be a possibility. Now, it's basically come down to simply going into a lobby and saying "Hey - do you know the chain-stun trick? Let's kill Jason this game"
  12. If I'm Tommy, first I check to see if the car/boat/phone objectives have been reached. If they haven't, I go for objectives. If the cops have been called, I go towards the exits and try to distract/protect so people can escape. If the car is started, I try to head towards the road it's on, so I can try to stun Jason if he stops the car. It's the obvious approach, but it's amazing how many people don't get that. If you've played the game for more than a day, you've probably escaped before, so I don't get Tommys who throw people to the wolves.
  13. This isn't true at all. I've witnessed multiple "pinata style" gang-attacks on Jason where multiple counselors just circle him, and quickly chain-stun until the mask comes off. Once the pinata circle happens, there's either a kill (unless they mis-time the sweater), Jason quits, or he goes and hides in the water. I'm all for a great strategic Jason kill, but this method doesn't require any skill or strategy - you just get enough people around him and beat him like a pinata, and the chain-stunning and weak mask HP makes for an easy kill. I've observed it probably 5-10 times in the last week alone - both with good Jasons and inexperienced ones. When I'm the only one trying to achieve objectives, and I look on the map and see literally every other counselor in the same spot with the Jason, I sigh and say "Yeah, another one of these rooms". I find it kind of hard to believe you haven't even seen chain-stunning like this, but just because you haven't personally ran across these groups in QP doesn't mean they don't exist.
  14. Jason needs a buff in BOTH. Players don't team up on Jason as much in QP because they're usually randoms that don't know each other, but whenever they do they can just chain-stun, and easily pop the mask off. It's not even a matter of skill or experience, under the current balancing, if you figure out chain-stunning, you can gang up on Jason and pretty easily beat him. It's a major problem that needs to be addressed.
  15. I don't keep numbers, but my own host-quitting percentage seems a LOT higher than yours. I'm sure some of them are connection issues, but most of the time it's really obvious that it's an intentional rage quit. If the host is a counselor and quits just after being killed, when they're out of stamina and Jason is about to catch up, or when they're putting gas in the boat and Jason morphs in and is about to kill them...it's pretty obvious. Likewise, if the host is Jason, and happens to quit right after losing their mask, right after the phone gets fixed (especially if it's really early in the game), right after the 4-seater gets started, etc...again, really obvious. The only time I have ever intentionally quit a game is when there were cheats/exploits going on, so I don't really "get" rage-quitting. Most times, especially as a counselor, you're going to lose a lot more than you're going to win. So if you're going to quit every time you lose, why bother playing in the first place?
  16. So Jasons quitting and instantly ending games is just "free XP, nice", but you have a bigger problem with non-Jasons quitting at start? If I'm a counselor, I probably don't even notice if other counselors quit after start most of the time, but Jason quitting (especially right when you're about to fix the phone or start the car) is a LOT more frustrating. Like not even close.
  17. All I'm saying is that right now we have: 1) Non-Jasons quitting at start 2) Host quitters ending games 3) Jasons quitting ending games If the Salt Mines deals with #2 and #3, which are MUCH bigger issues, that's a massive improvement, regardless of whether #1 continues.
  18. While certainly not ideal, if the Salt Mines can deal with Jason-quitters and host-quitters, I can live with the other people occasionally going idle or suiciding. Again, I'd obviously prefer it if everybody played the game right, but hosts and Jasons quitting are the much bigger problem, and if we can fix that, it'll be a huge positive step forward.
  19. That might be the best catch-all definition of trolling I've read yet.
  20. If they are actually trying to help others escape, then I would NOT consider it trolling. But in my personal experiences, I've pretty much only seen the above scenario used for trolling purposes. I obviously can only see this when I'm observing, after either getting killed or escaping, so I have a pretty good idea of the game situation with regards to who's still alive. And like I said, I'm sure there are people who've done things like that legitimately for distraction and to help other counselors, but I've never personally seen that myself.
  21. That's true, but that's not what I'm talking about - they're basically "joy riding", not looking for other counselors. The honking in that case is to attract Jason, and to rub his nose in the fact that they're driving away. In fact, usually the same types who do this type of trolling are likely to run over a counselor if they see them out in the open. I've seen it multiple times.
  22. There's a ton of ways to define it, but I think a key common element is if you're doing something just to antagonize another player, that is NOT in the context of trying to win the game. Common examples (usually with inexprienced Jasons): -The cops have been called, you're at the exit, you've stunned Jason, and can easily escape. Instead, you just dance/teabag until he gets up, stun him again, dance/teabag, etc. -You start the car, but instead of escaping, you drive around the camp honking the horn, you let Jason try to approach the car, but you just keep driving off just far enough ahead of him, since the guy obviously hasn't mastered Shift yet. So instead of escaping, you just basically make fun of the guy playing Jason until he either quits or time runs out. There's a million other examples, but whenever a player could easily win, and they're sticking around and avoiding escaping...they're very likely there to troll others.
  23. LOL, that's my whole point - I *wouldn't* want to play that game for that very reason. If the game was fairly balanced, Jason would be a 100% sure-fire winner. But under the current balancing with chain-stunning and quick mask removals, even this hypothetical "Everything Jason" would get his fair share of kills, which is a problem.
  24. A "normal" Jason should not be invincible, of course. But if we're saying Jason, who if true to the movies should be killing 90%+ of the counselors anyway, is now a max-powered "beast mode" Jason then yes, in that hypothetical he SHOULD be pretty much unbeatable. Would I like to play in a game, either as a counselor or as Jason, where he had every ability with no cooldown? No, doesn't seem like it would be any fun. It would be like playing a baseball sim and editing a guy's stats where he batted .800 and had 200 homers a season - where's the fun in just basically hitting a home run ALL the time. But whether people would enjoy playing it or not, the Jason described in the original post would (and should) be nearly impossible to defeat with any Jason player who even remotely knew what he was doing.
  25. I'm a level 115, and play very regularly, almost entirely in public QP lobbies. Before the last "nerfing" of Jason, I had participated or observed in probably only a half-dozen or so Jason kills the entire time I played. In the last couple of weeks alone, I've observed about a half-dozen kills, and seen a ton more where they just should of had a kill but either screwed up the sweater stun, made Jason quit, had Jason hide in the water, etc. And it's always the same style - somebody either commits suicide or pretty much lets Jason kill them early, comes back as Tommy, then they gang up and chain-stun Jason, get the mask off waaaaay too quickly, and get an easy kill. So the percentages have apparently gone way, way, WAY up on Jason kills, and it's really hurting the fun of the game. I don't know how many times in the last few days I've had to observe for 10 minutes or more because Jason was hiding in the water after getting chain-stunned, or just had the Jason quit because they removed his mask five minutes into the game. And I can't even chalk it up to "people just getting better", they're just basically going on the offensive vs Jason and out-fighting him toe-to-toe, which should pretty much NEVER happen, let alone very regularly. It would be like if the NHL made the goals four feet wider - scoring would go way up, but it wouldn't be because offensive players got better or because goailies got worse, it would be because the people in charge unbalanced the game against the goalie and made it too easy to score. I don't know if it's hit-points, perks, grab problems, weapon range, whatever, but when Jason's losing his mask with just a handful of blows in a row...something's very wrong.
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