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Tommy86 last won the day on February 11 2020

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About Tommy86

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  1. If the upcoming, final patch still has any noticeable CS delay then that will be really unfortunate. I’m not sure it’s even worth explaining why at this stage, but I might as well if there’s any chance it has some bearing. I post here once in a blue moon so I’ll just lay it all out on this topic. Let’s acknowledge the fact that the CS change was an attempt to remove sliding, based on a lack of info on how it actually works. A few of us all shed light on it in a thread post-patch so you could forward it to the devs, and the main point was to show how a delay on CS exit has zero relation to sliding at all. Some possible solutions to patching it out were explored too. But that aside, I’ll assume for a moment there’s a bunch of other exploits the delay was also meant to patch. In case it isn’t known, Illfonic already implemented a minor delay for CS years ago, to remove certain things that specifically relied on simultaneous entry/exit of CS. While their methods were imperfect, the result was far less intrusive and to date, those exploits have not returned. In other words, they nullified the CS + Sprint inputs which is exactly what the new delay also targets - trying to fix a problem that was already solved. Years ago. In regards to existing exploits, I can say with certainty that the new delay fixes nothing / has no relation to anything I am aware of (and I’m aware of the majority). It is however directly responsible for creating new ones such as (yet another) infinite stamina method that is so easily performed it puts sliding to shame. The irony is just incredible. But the biggest problem is the degradation of basic input functionality, and it can very much be felt by any player but especially competitive. While certain tactics preceded by block are still possible, it entirely depends on whether you accounted for the delay prior to an action out of CS or not. If not, then no instant punish allowed. At the end of the day, no amount of adapting is going to change the fact that an input working flawlessly for almost 4 years is now simply not responding for half a second. Many including myself would say that is entirely unacceptable. And the worst part is that it‘s for absolutely nothing. Given that dev support is coming to an end, I still don’t understand why this would seem like a good time to gamble on patching out some tired old exploit and hoping there’s no consequences. My opinion is the mechanics should’ve been left well enough alone instead of introducing new problems that will never be fixed. Many would say just revert to last patch, but I know that’s not the way it works. I don’t expect this post to make any difference, but I can say I made an effort at least.
  2. Ah sorry about that, I probably read through it all too quickly. I do agree it is a nerf to counselor gameplay, hard to say whether it’s substantial in practice but I’m cautious towards it. Also agree that what will happen is more and more players forming groups, now that host quitting is back with P2P. Or competitive circles that enforce rules and that is essentially the last bastion long after developer support ends. It is all pretty “play by the book” with the exception of special tourneys where anything goes. But all in all I think the remaining player base will be self enforcing.
  3. Yeah it is an option as a last resort. And even though I believe swing + block change is the way to go, I still have my doubts about it all. Reason being is that although those inputs appear to be physically pressed simultaneously, they are not always read simultaneously but they activate anyway eg. swing > delay > block > delay etc. given a close enough time frame in the milliseconds (tested with input reading device). Which is not the case for all glitches. Since lag increases the amount of time those inputs can “blend” together so to speak, it is possible it would still exist at higher ping or able to be executed with macros. To definitely remove it, you would need something like we have for the CS change, a substantial window of time where the other input will 100% not register however you potentially run the risk of side effects at higher ping. Perhaps block cancel on hit will be affected, perhaps block slash. Who knows, but the CS + abilities lock up is already an example of that. These are worst case scenarios but maybe worth mentioning. In all honesty CS needed a hard re-work but at this point of course it is far too late. If sliding can be patched without side effects then great, but I personally think players can live with nothing further getting patched out - as long as CS is restored, if not to pre-engine update performance then at least to pre-patch performance. Good, responsive controls are priority because without that it simply becomes a burden to play.
  4. Just want to chime in here again regarding the discussion thus far. In regards to the possible solutions for sliding listed, the one at the top of the list for me is undoubtedly preventing swing + block from registering together. This is for a number of reasons which I’ll go into. This would essentially nullify attack sliding which is the main form that is utilised, not just for its “teleportation” but also for its stamina conservation. There are other forms which depend on block + sprint but ultimately they are limited in use in comparison to literally travelling across the map with attack slide. Swing + block is also required for “bulldozer” / invisible swing as mentioned, and also for stamina “skipping” (basically stam freeze without a swing). Those would all be knocked out. The reason why I am wary of the alternate solution - which is preventing block + sprint from registering - is because it is useful for a variety of legitimate techniques (NOT glitches) that rely on smooth transition from CS to an action. While there would be a way around it by utilising the CS input to exit (or dropping block as mentioned), ultimately you are looking at additional inputs / motions for regular things that will now be more cumbersome to do, especially given how frequently they are used. You can already see how just a tiny change of not being able to exit CS for 0.5s can frustrate players simply because it interferes with regular controls they are well accustomed to. Importantly, there is something that needs to be mentioned in regards to normal input behaviour being modified to not co-exist with other inputs (at a certain timing or otherwise). While any changes made may work perfectly fine as host or offline, the issues can pop up as soon as any ping is introduced. To give you a prime example - The engine update all the way back managed to remove certain rare exploits at the expense of block functionality. What ended up happening is that if you tried to block at the same speed as you would as host / offline, the game would instead pair CS with the abilities menu and you would get locked up performing no action. You would then require another CS input to restore functionality, but as a consequence you would probably be on your back at that point having taken a hit. The higher the ping the worse it gets till block is practically unusable. This still exists to this day and is a blemish on combat that has not been resolved despite much pleading from the community. The lesson to be learned here is that if exploits cannot be be rectified without detrimental side effects to normal gameplay, it is better to let them be. At the end of the day only a fraction of the playerbase utilises them, and sliding for example quite often gets them killed when the inputs inevitably fail since they are entirely dependent on ping. It is only somewhat consistent with macro which is practically non-existent on console vs PC (also the very least of your problems on PC in comparison to other things). All I will say is please be considerate in how the issue is fixed and ensure it is not worse than the problem ie. don’t make the 99% of players suffer for it. In the case of CS I predict it needs only one more negative change to fall apart entirely due to aggravation from non-responsive controls. Lastly I should address the 3rd option which is stamina depletion during swing. While I respect GeneiJin I must disagree with him on this one since it basically falls into what I’ve said above, modifying a base element of gameplay to rectify an exploit that only a fraction of players use. Something like this would impact stamina management in combat as it would be a penalty for non-contact, therefore it seems excessive to me. Long post I know but hopefully it is beneficial towards towards further resolution on this topic.
  5. @mattshotcha Thank you for directing the info and your dedication to it. I know your post wasn’t directed specifically at us, but just to shed some light on the topic so you can better understand how there came to be the situation you’re identifying in the first place. I will start by saying that JKB unfortunately became somewhat of a joke among the community, due to earning a reputation of being ineffective. And I’m sure reports with nothing but “FIX SLIDING” are a big part of that. But even if it were to be explained as “counselor is teleporting” or something equally basic is nowhere near good enough either. Someone without understanding of the mechanics cannot even begin to explain it, so it becomes a guessing game. That’s where people like myself and my peers come in. For a time, Illfonic did in fact have a steady stream of info from a small dedicated group of us. We had a dev hanging out in our discord who received technical knowledge of every new thing we’d find and pass it on. But even with an abundance of info many issues were just handled incorrectly or not at all. As far as Gun was concerned back then, their general attitude was “we know better”. The casual players always earned more of their attention, despite the glaring issue of not having a deep understanding of the game. There was a general distrust due to differences of opinion regarding changes / fixes and ultimately some of what remains broken or detrimental to gameplay is a result of that. Among many other bugs, the full info for Sliding for example was provided as early as sometime around LAUNCH and throughout the game’s life. And yet it became a running joke that sliding had become a “feature” of the game since it remained since launch despite the knowledge provided to remove it. This is just from my experience and the circles I’ve been in, but I’m certain a lot of people were burned in regards to long standing issues with the game that were either mismanaged or not even acknowledged. IMO that is the reason for the divide between developer and playerbase and why many just gave up on trying to reach out and provide info. I will say there is nothing worse than being told to go to JKB when you know that either a) that process has already taken place with zero result or b) is not entirely applicable. In order for accurate repro and tackling more complex issues, a conversation with knowledgeable players is most likely needed for the best approach. You are correct that there is the aspect of players “protecting” certain things in the game, but that is a whole other conversation. I do appreciate that you are making an effort to rectify problems with the game, and thank you for being respectful and acknowledging our efforts as well. While I’m not around much these days, I fully trust GeneiJin and Somethin Cool to provide any additional help / info on this. I wish you good luck with it all.
  6. @mattshotcha thanks for the very detailed reply, I appreciate it. Based on what I understand, here is an updated list which may provide better starting for points for anyone interested. Even if not technically perfect, this would be the effective impact of the changes on gameplay (providing they are correct) - 1. Counselor Strength lowered across the board 2. Stuns do zero dmg / dmg stat not affixed to stuns 3. Jason must take x amount of dmg before you have the opportunity to demask 4. Demask chance is based on stun chance / whether you stun on follow-up hits 5. Post-stun / wake up hits cannot demask because of short stun-immunity time 6. Once Jason is in rage, stun chance still applies to mask removal after dmg threshold reached (since mask RNG is separate but uses same probability). If this is the case, it's quite clever. Referring to points 3 and 4, this would mean that no matter how much damage is dealt over the threshold, nothing will happen until a stun hit is achieved. It also addresses the issue of perfectly timed hits on wake up from stun - since he is immune to them for 2-3 seconds. While this can no longer be used to nullify defenses for an easy demask, it still won't prevent Jason taking damage before threshold is reached. For future updates I would strongly advise the devs to apply damage immunity on wake up, for the same duration that stun immunity lasts. One unknown factor is how mask RNG reacts to guaranteed stuns such as Shotgun, but this should be easily tested once the patch out.
  7. On the contrary, I would say this post is just about as ambiguous as can be, to the point of it being intentionally so. But I’m going to break it down and attempt to make sense of it for everyone. Ok, perks and weapon values untouched, got it. So the way you are minimising damage output is by nerfing Strength then? Since you mentioned stats, and Strength is the only stat which determines damage output for a Counselor. As far as different scenarios go, well pre-Rage and post-Rage are literally the only ones I can see, which seems you’ve got some additional modifier to lower damage post-Rage. Yes, seems you’ve got a damage modifier post-Rage. That would be the fail safe. As for other ways how damage affects Jason’s mask (assuming you haven’t added anything new) well there is only stun (low damage) and non-stun (full damage). By nerfing Strength stat then both values are lowered anyway. Regarding "chances to remove" the mask, well that is simply called stun chance - since this determines the amount of damage dealt (see above). There are also 2 layers of it, base stun chance of a weapon and individual counselor stun chance (not determined by any visible stats whatsoever). A third layer would be Stun Resistance but that conclusively does not exist. Since you didn’t tweak any of the weapons, this leads me to think you increased the stun chance for counselors across the board then. Alternatively you’ve added a new modifier that randomly deals lower damage on any hit including a non-stun. Another alternative could be some extra damage immunity states for Jason - which would be wise - although I’m doubtful this is the case. But moving on... Yes, since you didn’t touch the perks. Hopefully those max values of Slugger and Thrasher with a 10 Strength Counselor have been accounted for regarding that damage modifier... Side note, I also wouldn’t strictly call it “earning” those builds since that would imply progression, rather than randomly rolling them at literally any point. Now, back to the chance topic to finish this off. If this is still simply stun-based, that not only goes out the window as soon as Rage hits, but it is not even effective before that. The reason being is that while Jason does have stun-immunity states (2-3 seconds) following a stun, he does not have damage-immunity. Therefore, even something as simple as a firecracker can be used to safely guarantee a non-stun, full damage hit providing you have the timing down - video link. Video plays from start of the match to show Jason is indeed at full health (or skip to 0:40). The demask hit comes just as he is exiting firecracker stun, and by observing the abilities menu which only lights up post-stun, you can see how much time he has to do anything. In other words - virtually none. Timing can be learned and done consistently. Additionally, there is one last nuclear bomb bit of info that I’ll drop here. There is in fact already a post-Rage damage modifier sitting in the game, although certainly not an intended one. A flare gun - one headshot - does 60 Damage post-Rage. If that is still there in the new patch, unaddressed, everything else is almost for naught. TL;DR Weapon values, perks untouched Maybe Strength nerfed Maybe dmg modifier post-Rage Maybe stun chance increased / random dmg output per hit Honestly I don’t know why the specific changes to mechanics couldn’t just be clearly listed as I’ve done above. Rather than a bunch of stuff about game balance and ambiguous tweaks, which can be confusing even for veteran players simply wanting more specific info. What is written instead is something that lends itself to a lot of speculation. In the future it would be nice to read something concrete regarding changes such as this.
  8. An excellent point to bring up. Unless Jason has an abundance of throwing knives, he is neutered once these 3 requirements are in place, due to sweater radius being such a threat. Any self-respecting player will of course attempt to collect knives but this scenario typically brings out the ocean man in players with less dignity. With sweater also being perfectly functional through walls, there are many opportunities for it.
  9. Welcome to the F13 Tower Guide. Included below is a link to the full PDF, with all maps broken down to give you the best chance of choosing the correct generator on first morph. Screenshots of all towers that can be observed in the cutscenes are also included for your conveniance. Given the amount of pages, I recommend using bookmarks in your mobile or desktop reader for ease of use. Additionally, a bonus video of the cutscenes can be viewed below for the purpose of seeing the tower locations in motion, to best familiarise yourself with them. While some are obviously hard to catch, using slower playback on the video will help. F13 Tower Guide PDF - Download F13 Cutscene Towers Video If you wish to make use of the guide right away, you can do so without reading anything more. Otherwise, I encourage you to read on below for a complete understanding of the topic. Radio Tower Guide - Wordpress
  10. As Somethin Cool said, +Stun Resist is actually a negative in the context of demasking as stun dmg is a fraction of the Dmg a Jason takes in comparison to a non-stun. So actually it is fortunate that it doesn’t actually work (particularly on a -Def 85 health), but quite pathetic that these stats were not only left in the game as non-functional to begin with, but portrayed as a “strength” in place of actual strengths. It actually defies logic how it could possibly be described as a strength when it simply means you could be demasked and subsequently killed faster (if it actually worked). Logic 😃
  11. No it was never rectified / patched. It was a “feature” that was intended to be in the game but never made it in, yet remained in the menu screens. Before I even confirmed it with the head of Illfonic QA, I tested it extensively and it is still the very same to this day. Feel free to test for yourself. Here is a video from 2018 showing all the proof anyone would need - 10 Luck breaking almost all weapons in the match vs a -Def / lower block chance. Not once does a weapon break the block. It is simply a fake stat.
  12. As would I, but they don’t unfortunately. I will be releasing a ton of more in-depth info on the game soon, including those tid bits. Currently I am completing the Tommy box guide, I have all the info just have to finish plotting it out. After that I’ll move on to the other topics.
  13. No they are the only ones, other than Part 7’s Sense “glitch”. There are actually hidden stats for counselors however, namely stun chance and stun duration which are individually coded per counselor with zero relation to any visible stats whatsoever. Logically one would think it would be related to Luck and/or Str but actually it is not the case, hence why I call them “hidden” stats. Different for everybody with no logical reason why. In regards to why Jason has fake stats, they were something Illfonic planned to implement but never completed.
  14. Stun resistance doesn’t exist. It is technically a fake stat just like “block chance” is a fake stat on minus Def / Less HP (exactly the same) which is simply 85 health vs the base 100. I personally confirmed it with an Illfonic dev a long time ago.
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