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Posts posted by mattshotcha

  1. 35 minutes ago, KOOLLAYDTAC said:

    No worries mate. Thank you for answering me and clarifying that because that was my biggest concern regarding everyone. I'm good now. I just needed some confirmation on that. Also I read over some of what you said and I feel like you were very on point with a lot of it. In fact I had to laugh because it reminded me of a time back when I've been on both sides of the coin when I did tech support for XBox over the phone. I had a history tech gamer rage over the phone in my ear about an issue and I remember thinking and your the guy I send my kids to school to learn from as a prime example of how to act. lol That was probably one of my most hardest times where I had to try and maintain professionalism while trying not to laugh. lol In my experience I've found the kids are a lot more well mannered then the adults more often then not. lol Sometimes they are just so cute your like awwww I just wanna take you home with me. lol :D

    My point is that I think people tend to forget or register that a lot of times they are dealing with actual real people and their inner child takes over causing them to gamer rage and throw tantrums and stuff about things they absolutely can not change. At the end of the day all we can really do is throw suggestions in the suggestion box and hope some if any of it will actually get used. Hopefully some of it can be without rebaking that cake. lol Good analogy btw. lol😁

    I know I can be overly critical and hard and I'm sorry about that. It's only because I like to see the best out of everyone. Now despite the issues the games has I do feel I need to be fair and say this. What you all did with this game has never been done before in any genre that I am aware of. You literally delivered a movie experience inside a game. If nothing else no one can ever take that way from you all. That in itself is an impressive feat all by itself.  :)

    Anyway I'm not gonna sit here and write a book. lol I just wanted to say thank you again for answering me and clarifying on that some. I took the initial announcement as basically walking away entirely and just enjoy what you unlocked while it last. I'm glad that's not the case. I'm sorry for the delayed response. The last few days got pretty busy for me. I also wanted to reflect some before I said anything else. Thank you so very much again. Have a safe and blessed day mate.😎

    Hey I really appreciate the reply!

    And never apologize for being critical, critical is good. There are some folks who think critical is uncivil, and it isn't, or at least doesn't have to be. Civility in criticism is important, as it helps us all be a part of the discussion without any of the hostility. I don't think I've ever seen anything less than civil from you, so no need to apologize.

    I appreciate the understanding and support for the game, and really for all of us at Gun.

  2. 1 hour ago, OCT 31 1978 said:


    Is that something Black Tower can possibly look into or is that a no fly zone at this current time.

    I know there are a few things you guys might have the team look into still since the final patch hit......just wondering.

     Thanks again 

    No I don't see that being in the scope. Considering there were technical reasons behind it, it wouldn't be the type of can of worms we'd want to open now.

    I know that sucks to hear and I don't mean to sound too frank with you here, just trying to shoot you straight on this one.

  3. 4 minutes ago, OCT 31 1978 said:

    Any word from the team ?

    Yes and no. Here's the thing, it was left out for a reason. But at that time it was IllFonic still. So tracking down the reason behind it is a little tough. But I'll let you know if we hear anything on it. As for Gun, we can't recall the exact reason well enough to comment and potentially misspeak. We're fairly certain it has to do with bot behavior and potential issues with how they interact/use the boat.

    • Thanks 1

  4. On 11/13/2020 at 4:42 PM, mattshotcha said:

    I would recommend reporting this to JasonKillsBugs.com as this is the first I'm seeing of any issue like this. The team will investigate accordingly.

    @Sythalin The team is taking a look, but we need that ticket in order to discuss with you further and troubleshoot the issue. As this is the only case like it we've come across, we'd need more info from you to troubleshoot accurately.

    I'm quoting myself because I apparently wasn't clear in this. When I say "first I'm seeing it" or "only case like it" I mean SINCE PATCH. We had plenty of info on it prior, then made the change. This is the first I'm seeing it since the patch came out. We've got the continued issue reported to the team.

    On 11/14/2020 at 4:42 AM, TimDuke 01 said:

    According to a "programmer" who claims he knows Unreal 4 engine on the Steam forums says a believable Jason AI is NOT as hard as Gun is claiming it is and basically saying Gun is lying about that and a number of things and are just plain lazy.Take it with a grain of salt but that is what he claims.Copied and pasted from Steam forum...They're lying, it's not hard at all, especially for programmers that they *should* have for a game of this budget. I work with UE4 and it's not difficult to make an aggressive AI even to have the behavior trees and bp's necessary for the Jason abilities e.g. He also claims host migration is very easy to implement also.

    I understand how my words could be interpreted as "too hard" to make an AI Jason. I don't mean that it's too hard, just that it's not a simple implementation and would have required a significant amount of work, prior to where we are now. Hell, prior to where we were even 2 years ago. We didn't prioritize Jason AI as the offline option because the game is built around playing as Jason. We also knew that a truly smart Jason that wouldn't play as a cruel joke would take much more than a whim of programming.

    My second issue here is "Trust me, I'm a programmer." 

    And host migration being "easy" is just completely false. Without a look under the hood of how our game handles matchmaking, there's no way a random "programmer" could or should be making that claim. There's a reason why the folks who do the matchmaking side of games are very unique and highly skilled. 

    Other than that, "a game of this budget" is again, something that points to a lack of understanding and experience in games. I know a lot of folks think that Kickstarter and sales have lead to us all swimming in money like Scrooge McDuck, but games are more expensive to make and maintain than I think almost ANY gamer realizes.

    All that said, I'm not trying to attack this person. They sound somewhat knowledgeable and maybe just frustrated with the situation. Which is fine. I just can't let misinformation fly around from "Trust me, I'm a programmer" guy.

    What it boils down to is people are pissed about the game seeing it's end of development. I get it. I know when I have hard news to deliver to players. Hell, it's a large part of my job. But reacting to tough news by calling us incompetent or liars isn't going to change anything. Honestly, games go through this CONSTANTLY. ALL games eventually sunset. And while we would have liked to implement some things to ease that transition for players, they ultimately weren't possible. Not because we're stupid, and not because we're lazy, and not because we're lying to you. Impossible within the confines of the game, what is already built and can't be rebuilt at this point, and what is realistic within the timeline and resources we have left on the project. At this point, it would be 1million percent more realistic to take this feedback into a whole new game then try and plug these pieces into the old project. Talk to anyone who has worked in games and they'll all tell you that at a certain point you realize implementing the "thing" is destruction. By two methods: Destruction by breaking the fragile framework of something or destruction by having to start from scratch with that in mind. At a certain point, the cake is in the oven. You can't go back and start whipping an extra egg white in. Unless you toss the whole thing and start fresh.

    Is where we're leaving F13 perfect? No. But we're trying to leave it in a place where people can still enjoy what is there.

    On 11/11/2020 at 9:57 AM, KOOLLAYDTAC said:

    So let me see if I understand this right. Your killing the online servers and going to peer to peer. Ok fine, but I gotta ask. What happens when you guys decide to pull the plug on the servers the character data is stored on? Because I am thinking sooner or later that will happen and when it does everyone will basically be SOL on any progress and unlocks they made. Is there a contingency plan in place for that? 🤔

    I see in your other replies you feel I've ignored you. I apologize, these patch notes threads get big quick and I'm running on fumes since the patch dropped.

    Offline saves would be the contingency plan for the day the database servers shut down. But we aren't there yet.

    • Like 2

  5. 21 hours ago, BarryMcHawkinur said:

    Hey all,

    So to start off I've had this game for quite a while, and this only started happening about a month ago. I'll get into a Jason game, and kill about 3 counselors and then my game will just crash, saying there's a fatal error. So far i've tried verifying files, allowing the game and the launcher through antivirus, uninstalling and reinstalling the game, reinstalling c++ and configuring directx, posting to steam and reddit forums, and I even went to JasonKillsBugs and they couldn't help. You guys are my last resort!

    Here is the excerpt from my crash log:


    [2020.11.06-23.39.25:388][598]LogWindows: Error: Fatal error!
    [2020.11.06-23.39.25:388][598]LogWindows: Error: 
    [2020.11.06-23.39.25:388][598]LogWindows: Error: Unhandled Exception: EXCEPTION_ACCESS_VIOLATION reading address 0x00000000
    [2020.11.06-23.39.25:388][598]LogWindows: Error: 
    [2020.11.06-23.39.25:388][598]LogWindows: Error: [Callstack] 0x00000000D0281BC6 UnknownFunction []
    [2020.11.06-23.39.25:388][598]LogWindows: Error: [Callstack] 0x00000000F4DF52C0 UnknownFunction []
    [2020.11.06-23.39.25:388][598]LogWindows: Error: [Callstack] 0x000000008C16EDC0 UnknownFunction []
    [2020.11.06-23.39.25:388][598]LogWindows: Error: [Callstack] 0x000000001C317050 UnknownFunction []
    [2020.11.06-23.39.25:388][598]LogWindows: Error: [Callstack] 0x000000001C317050 UnknownFunction []
    [2020.11.06-23.39.25:388][598]LogWindows: Error: 
    [2020.11.06-23.39.25:401][598]LogExit: Executing StaticShutdownAfterError
    [2020.11.06-23.39.25:636][598]LogWindows: FPlatformMisc::RequestExit(1)
    [2020.11.06-23.39.25:636][598]Log file closed, 11/06/20 18:39:25



    The Exception Access Violation in Windows usually means the game is being blocked by antivirus software.

    Has support troubleshooted that aspect with you? I can't really go through the full steps of troubleshooting, as it's not my expertise. But usually a temporary disabling of the a/v software will help identify if it is actually the culprit. In a lot of cases, the basic Windows defenses will cover you for that period so it's not as risky as it might sound. But I wouldn't be so quick to rely on the allow feature in a/v software. 

    Regardless of that, I'm sure support didn't just turn you away. But without knowing where that troubleshooting went, I can't really direct. You should follow up with them.

    10 hours ago, Fair Play said:

    Welcome to the forum @BarryMcHawkinur. Sorry to hear you're having issues with the game.

    If you submitted a report to jasonkillsbugs.com, did you attach the whole crash log for them to take a look at?

    @mattshotcha, if you have a moment, could you look into this new member's dilemma?

    Thanks for the tag!

  6. 22 minutes ago, Sythalin said:

    Well whoop-dee-doo.  Games doesn't crash anymore!  It may as well, since if it the perk roller locks up it'll eventually "forget" your profile entirely, making you close the game anyways!

    Good fix!

    "Ample time to keep up"?  Is the backend being stored on an Apple II?  Smartphones can keep up with much more complicated synchronizations and this can't even handle a small data packet of "give/see perk with X bonus and Y flaw"?  That's either really bad hardware or a really bad network engineer.  Actually, probably both.

    I would recommend reporting this to JasonKillsBugs.com as this is the first I'm seeing of any issue like this. The team will investigate accordingly.

    @Sythalin The team is taking a look, but we need that ticket in order to discuss with you further and troubleshoot the issue. As this is the only case like it we've come across, we'd need more info from you to troubleshoot accurately.

  7. 10 minutes ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

    Well it's interesting to see more stuff being worked on despite the "last" patch dropping. Or am I misinterpreting things? I thought the game would be stuck at whatever state it is in now forever due to end of support for the game.

    No, we're still talking last patch. This iteration process is still a part of that last patch as we'll be building off that regardless. When we released the patch we assured players it wouldn't be released and then the team runs from the project, we needed to allow some room for potential issues, emergencies, etc.

    • Like 1

  8. A lot more great info to share here.

    I've worked on more than a few games at this point in my career and one thing that is a constant: Multiple inputs registering at once, or even too close together, causes unintended effects.

    When those inputs can register while an animation is ongoing, it makes even more potential for issues, like trap bypass for example. 

    That all said, the team will dig into this. I have to give them time to do their investigation based off what we've sent over. I'll keep the community up to date as soon as I have more and we can hopefully continue this discourse then. I may reach out via PM to some of y'all. Many, many thanks.

    • Like 3

  9. 9 hours ago, Friday-Fan-88 said:

    Honestly there should of been 2 final patch updates, one for Online and one for Offline, When this game was first announced they should of started off with the single player stuff first so this database login crap wouldn't be happening and atleast we have things to do when the servers shut down. I wonder if the AI bots for offline bots will still work when the servers are shut down since that's all connected to online which was a horrible idea, should of made it separate. 


    The bots still work without dedicated servers. As for a separate patch for offline items, we simply ran out of time. These are smaller issues in priority for a game based mainly on multiplayer and as such, reworking pathing issues wasn't in the cards. 

    2 hours ago, Slasher_Clone said:

    I think we still need at least one more patch, I hope that in the future Gun can revisit their decision to make this the final patch.


    - Offline bot’s are still underperforming (or just standing around), after the start of the match. 

    - We need to have our save data transferred to our own systems, being locked out of content one day isn’t a nice prospect.

    - Perks need to be fixed, I know time and money played a factor but we were supposed to get something better. 

    - Offline Counselor mode, I still want to use the costumes I purchased after the save servers disappear and peer to peer is no more. 

    These aren’t demands or anything like that, just what I hope to one day see. 

    For offline bots, please see above. 

    Perk system was not able to be reworked, as we investigated and found that we would either need to completely rebuild the perk system, which is a massive undertaking at this point, or not tinker with it. It's too much of a touchy area of the game to risk breaking in order to make minor changes, and making major changes like a whole new system are out of scope at this point and have been for a while.

    Offline save data is still not impossible. We haven't done this yet as the database servers are far lower impact to maintain and therefore we don't see that end in sight.

    Offline counselor play was never on the table, if you recall going back to the days of the BEYOND streams, we covered how an AI Jason would not be high enough quality to make it worthwhile. And if we were to do that, it would be a massive chunk of work to create a passable AI Jason. It's simply not in the scope, and never truly was. 

  10. 41 minutes ago, TimDuke 01 said:

    Not on PC trust me.There is a certain player on PC that I encounter quite often who uses a macro to do it from the start of the match till the end. I will not violate forum rules and name and shame but I can supply a partial video of this player if you want in a private message.He also uses hacks as he gets out of grabs with no pocket knife instantly and he is still not banned as I submitted my evidence to JKB.

    Submitting to JKB for a ban has a whole set of rules involved before we can act on something. It's a wholly separate topic to bug reporting.

    I just want to note that because if we're in a discussion revolving around the effectiveness of the support site, we should be clear to keep these things separate.

    All in all, this has been a good discussion. I've got info to the team, we're in the investigation phase and while that may seem like things are slowing down, it's just the work taking place. I'll share more on our findings as soon as I have it.

    I've been in close contact with a few players that have some keen details on these things. And things like what we've discussed here have some other wheels turning for the future of Gun and our processes for reporting this stuff. I appreciate this discourse. Thanks, gang.

    • Like 1

  11. 4 minutes ago, Somethin Cool said:

    3 for 1 if you can get rid of the combat stance delay. Because that's what's causing the block while sprinting issue as well. Anyway, I think that about covers it as far as sliding. I don't know if any of my suggestions can be implemented or not. I don't know rat shit from Rice Krispies when it comes to programming. I'm just the guy that plays the game way too much and has a knack for button mashing and remembering my inputs if something happens. But I really do hope it helps.

    As far as everything else, I think the rest of the patch is working as intended. I know for a fact that abduction is gone. Even off host inputs. Abduction does technically still work off host, meaning you can abduct, but you're now rubber banded exactly to where you began the abduction. So you jump out, but jump right back to where you started, making it pointless to do. 

    Pocketknife duplication is also gone. So is using firecrackers and losing your pocket knife. I've heard conflicting stories about bed glitching and some out of map glitches so I'll be getting on and testing them later. I'll submit reports if I find anything, and if not I'll let you know here.

    Keep in mind that it can still be possible to make it LOOK like you bed glitched. But the counselor is able to be killed normally. This is partly due to ping, if I'm not mistaken. So some folks have gotten it to happen like the bug and claimed it's not fixed, but they're kill-able. 

  12. 12 minutes ago, Somethin Cool said:

    To be fair, I play Friday all the time and I rarely see any sliding going on at all. All the glitches I've helped you guys with so far have been shared on a most important to least important basis based on what I see playing almost every day. Just before this patch 99 percent of the glitches I've seen in game are map glitches and bed glitches.

    I know you guys hear a lot about sliding, but I just never saw it in game nearly often enough to even understand why there are so many complaints about it.

    That being said, I'm not advocating for it, nor trying to hold it as a bargaining chip. I know you've been getting blown up by messages since the patch and suddenly have every top tier player crawling out of the woodwork to offer suggestions and/or trade info to keep other exploits in play. 

    I simply always focused my attention to the things I saw most often, and the glitches I knew you guys were stuck on based on what I've heard on the forums. So that's why I offered detailed insight into sliding just now.

    I didn't report bulldozer because literally nobody does it. I was simply showing that there's more than one glitch caused by the same base inputs of entering block and swing at the same time.

    Anyway, not to ramble on and on, I can submit reports for every single glitch I can think of if you'd like, but most of them are harmless little things that have little effect on playability. I mean, how much of this stuff do you guys have time and resources to mess with? 

    Hey, I don't mean my reply to sound directed specifically at you or at the OP or Tommy. I am sorry if that was how I made it sound. It's a big problem across the community, as you even said. Every player is coming out of the woodwork with new info, holding back info, or flat out bargaining for bugs. It's crazy right now.

    This info here has been forwarded, if you think any details have been omitted, please do send it over to JKB. But I've already shared this as well with them, as it sounds like we may be able to 2 for 1 it with what we are looking at right now.

    And I also want to note that I appreciate this being shared AT ALL. I don't mean to sound like I am not appreciative that at the least we now have the info. 

    So thank you to @GeneiJin @Tommy86 and @Somethin Cool 

    Your insight is much appreciated.

    • Thanks 1

  13. I've shared all this info with the team.

    I'm going to bring it up here again, though I know the response it will get. This is why JasonKillsBugs.com is so damned important. I don't know how many different ways I have to illustrate that, but we need this type of stuff as it gets uncovered, in detail. It's incredibly simple to submit a report, then the team has the details, has the ability to follow up with players who've uncovered these things. We have tracking and documentation and details instead of simply having screaming players going "FIX SLIDING!!!" with zero info on the issue at hand.

    We even have players trying to withhold info as a negotiation. This is absurd.

    In testing and reporting the best we could identify was that combat stance rapid status changes were playing into a whole host of bugs, which we are still investigating in tandem with new info. But as for why any of this info should be new at this point, I can't begin to speculate. To this day, we have ZERO tickets on this "bulldozing" issue mentioned here. And the tickets on sliding that we did have prior to the patch have not had even close to the level of detail that we see now being shared, after patch.

    This is an issue and a cooperation problem born out of wanting to protect these methods, despite them infuriating the common players. So average joe gamer who runs into a guy sliding reports the sliding with no idea how it's being done. Whisper networks of players who know these moves crop up, but don't want to share with the team. More and more public lobbies see these behaviors, report the players using them for cheating. The issue hits a critical mass where we need to act. We take a bug or "tech" as you call them and have to try and repro internally as best we can. The result is the Combat Stance changes.

    Now, we have a pile of new info to sort through only because the players using these techniques are suddenly motivated to share this info because they feel we made the wrong change.

    I'm not pushing this responsibility onto players, what I am saying is that we need to cooperate better, for the sake of BOTH you as players and the team trying to tackle these issues. All of this means very little considering where we are with F13 and the final patch being what we're working out. But consider this my plea to just report the info you might have into our system so we all can stop running in circles around each other.

    I've sent this thread directly to the team, but again, without a ticket it's a copy paste of a thread link, not a ticket in a system DESIGNED to facilitate these interactions.

    EDIT: I understand that some of you might have thought you were "protecting" a tactic like "bulldozing" by not reporting it. You weren't. Plain and simple. Just as "sliding" was a protected tactic that we couldn't source reliable info on, it inevitably became widespread in matches. What happens when it becomes widespread in matches? The community that isn't in the know reports it to us as players cheating with zero details. That raises it up the food chain of issues until we have to make a change to mitigate it. We have to make that change with limited info and limited details. That should highlight the concept I'm trying to illustrate about "protecting" a "technique" actually working out worse for all.

  14. 11 minutes ago, F13 Seppuku Squad said:

    Well at least that is a little bit clearer for us to understand. My take away from what you've said is that even after the final patched is released the team are still working to resolve the perk/CP removal and database login failure issues. As skeptical as I am, that would mean the world to those affected if it is the case.

    As for the .pak file issue, I guess it's safe to say that that is a lost battle. Very unfortunate, but I guess somewhat expected seen as it was left to fester throughout the game's life cycle. Sorry PC players, but it is what it is.

    And again, being honest, I'm sure what all can be done on the topic of the perks and database issues. The team will follow up soon and I'll get that info out.

    There's some aspects of the game that are simply too embedded, too baked in to fully turn around. So while they'll try and sync with partners to see what all can be done, I don't want to get any hopes up.

    • Like 1

  15. 2 minutes ago, F13 Seppuku Squad said:


    Just so you know where I'm coming from, I know tone cannot be conveyed well via text, but am so far removed from being heated, so we're cool. Just at the stage now where I feel time is running out so not looking to beat around the bush, and your response seemed very textbook, is all.

    Now you mentioned that there are 2 issues at play. But there are actually 3. But I'll get to the third issue in a moment. So let me get this straight. The first issue is where players had their perks and CP "cleaned" and unable to buy new perks has been resolved, right? Well my understanding, and if you have read the posts here, is that if the affected players buy new peks, they will simply have them removed again. So technically the issue has not been resolved as wrongful access to the server is still happening. The second issue of players being unable to log into the database, that is still under investigation, right? Well it was originally mentioned back in July (see link to post below) and probably safe to say it was reported to JKB as well. And as this issue stems from illegal access to the server it will require a patch to fix as nothing has been done to finalise a resolution in the last 3 patches. So what exactly is the timeframe of the investigation given that no more patches are set to be released? Or are you under the impression that the hackers no longer have access to the server to manipulate users' accounts?

    It really seems like hackers illegally accessing the server is not a red flag for you guys, and that is worrying, Matt. And I say that because your team seems to be taking the approach to ban individuals rather than actually closing the gaping security hole. Which brings me onto the third issue that you missed out. You have hackers in your game who fly ??? (and all the other stuff I mentioned in my last post). If players are editing your game's .pak files then you have another anti-hack issue on your hands that has been going on for years. A quick Google and I found forums discussing how to mod the game dating back to 2017 and many members here have posted about it still going on today. Is that problem going to be dealth with at all or have Gun already given up on the PC player base?

    As to the first two points, I brought them up again with the team after my last reply. They're going to dig into it again and see where we stand on that before I speak too concretely on the status. Give me some time to hear back from them and I'll get back to you all.

    The pak file situation is definitely an issue that has been an ongoing one in F13. We've worked in the past with our partners at EAC to limit as much of it as possible, and it's still an ongoing effort. I have to be honest here though, it is something that will inevitably exist without significant overhauls made the game.

    And I totally understand the context in text thing. Thanks to the whole thread for staying in this conversation patiently.

  16. 2 minutes ago, PackASnack_Lodge said:

    What happens is i will go into combat stance as Jason and use block to avoid hits and when i go out of combat stance i cannot grab or swing my weapon. In order to break the interaction lock i have to either use morph or shift and then i can grab or attack.

    Is it persistent or a once in a while situation? I've personally tested this since your report and do not see this behavior. Weapon swinging, picking up throwing knives, grabs, all worked.


    8 minutes ago, Laotian Lam said:

    Has anyone tested if you are safe to use firecrackers when they are beside your PK in your inventory now? 

    This is a listed fix, though I think you're asking the player base.

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