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RKSDooM

A (Mostly) Calm Plea for Better Communication and Foresight

96 posts in this topic

@GunMedia_Ben 

@wes

@Randygbk

Guys, seriously, after all the problems getting the first patch out on the XBONE, why would you even put out a release trailer for NES Jason BEFORE getting certified?

It really is beginning to feel like this was more about trying to steal DEAD BY DAYLIGHT's launch buzz than it was about making things up to your supporters, and that really sucks. And your repeated unwillingness to comment on the dedicated server issue after being repeatedly tagged in posts asking about it for days and days... and the lack of communication regarding the counselor clothing dlc being just palette swaps... and the false information regarding the original kill for NES Jason...

I mean, COME ON guys. I am a pretty patient guy who was proud to support this game, and will happily try to calm down complaints about subjective things, but these are all genuine instances where you have promised or otherwise stated things, and instead of stepping forward and owning those promises and statements, and then stating why they are or are not happening... you just go silent, and blame that silence on the toxicity of your supporters. 

And sure, some of the ways that people let their displeasure known ARE toxic, but there are also those of us who just want you to be upfront about things. 

If you are working on the dedicated servers, then just say that. If you are not, then say that and offer an explanation. If you can't offer an explanation at this point due to legal reasons or whatnot, then say THAT. Any of those responses would be acceptable to me and your more reasonable supporters. 

If you state that the clothing pack will be palette swaps in one place and won't be palette swaps in another, than clarify which one it is before release, and explain why the miscommunication happened, then your more reasonable supporters wouldn't have been upset by the perceived dishonesty that your silence begat.

When your support team said "No JASON X content" you quickly clarified that and said, "No, that's wrong. We are yelling at the support team for saying this" and, for the most part, all was calm in the FRIDAY THE 13TH: THE GAME world. Because you handled it by quickly and honestly communicating with us.

You guys seem to have this weird perception that just stopping by and saying "We can't talk about dedicated servers right now, due to legal issues (or due to discussions still being up in the air or whatever)" instead of just repeatedly ignoring the issue would somehow make things worse, instead of making things better, and that is crazy.  

And FOR THE LOVE OF GOD stop announcing release dates for things on consoles that haven't been certified yet! How many times does this have to bite you in the ass before you figure this out? 

I hate writing this post. I hate being lumped in with the people that freak out on you about every little thing and weren't patient with the launch issues and genuinely are "toxic" fans. I'm just very, very frustrated with you guys over what strikes me as kind of a dishonest and, frankly, somewhat cowardly way to run any business, let alone one as dependent on fan support as the gaming industry.

Own up to your statements and promises please, even when - ESPECIALLY when - you can't live up to those statements and promises.

Anyway, I guess I am just going to reluctantly step away from the game for awhile. It sucks, because I really do love it, but after spending so much time defending this game and being so happy that a game like this was even made, your communication issues and perceived dishonesty and lack of foresight are genuinely starting to make me angry. And that sucks and I hate it, because at the end of the day, this is a goddamn video game. 

So I'm going to go back to playing FALLOUT 4 again for awhile. I'll probably play some FRIDAY this weekend, to take advantage of the exp. bonuses (and I am resisting with all of my will adding "assuming that happens" to that sentence), but you guys seriously need to stop letting the "toxicity" of some of your players influence the way you treat the rest of us.

Most of us (many of us? a chosen few of us?) are reasonable human beings who just don't like being ignored when we ask you about statements and/or promises that you have made, that you appear to be failing to live up to.

Thank you for your time and for the game that is very, very fun when it works. 

If this is closed for being a duplicate topic due to all the other random bitching threads, so be it. I just wanted to try and approach things from what I hoped was a more thoughtful (if still frustrated) place.

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6 minutes ago, RKSDooM said:

 

It really is beginning to feel like this was more about trying to steal DEAD BY DAYLIGHT's launch buzz than it was about making things up to your supporters

Quality post all around,but this was something I didn't even put together until you pointed it out.

RandallFlagg likes this

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Exactly what I said to @GunMedia_Ben in my other thread.

 

Their communication with US is great, but their communication WITHIN is clearly horrible.

 

Just don't announce things until they are 100% ready and all of this could have been avoided, as well as making sure your ENTIRE team is on the same page. This includes your Twitter and Facebook teams as well.

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100% agree would like if i had any to give. having white knights telling us we need to learn to read is horseshit, it clearly said on the fucking video it had a new kill attached to the skin along with the music. 

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I hop around the Discord, Reddit, and Forums on rotation- I try and spread information from each source to the other so that everyone is equally informed (thanks gyazo). It's so odd how much conflicting information gets put out there by the development team :/. I really do think if they sat everyone down and got everyone on the same level before sending them out to post on Reddit and Facebook that they'd see a lot less bashing.

weirdkid5 and Risinggrave like this

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8 minutes ago, shwag said:

100% agree would like if i had any to give. having white knights telling us we need to learn to read is horseshit, it clearly said on the fucking video it had a new kill attached to the skin along with the music. 

 

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Perfectly reasonable post by RKS, and I agree. I'll always be appreciateive to them for making this game. But, if the current Xbox issues persist without any permanent resolution (very) soon, I'll definitely think twice before buying any future game(s) from Gun and/or Illfonic. It seems like the inmates are running the asylum. 

RandallFlagg likes this

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Excellent post, but I think some of the "toxic" people you're talking about are simply those who jumped off the boat a little faster than you. Otherwise great post, and a good reflection of most of our thoughts I think.

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I don't know how to quote from one thread to another, but I wanted to point out that wes has replied about the issue of dedicated servers:

"We never promised dedicated for console, but it is something that we want to do. Usually dedicated is more often used for shooters, as in FPS games there's a need for accuracy/predictive algorithms. Being a 3rd person, non-competitive game, we didn't feel there would need to be this support for console. But we want to implement a system so that if the host quits, the match would continue...and the best way to do that is with dedicated servers. So it's on the docket for sure."

After which I said:

"Thank you very much for responding, but please check the @Friday13thGame twitter account's post for FRIDAY 26 Sep 2016 at 9:42 AM.

It does state that you will launch with dedicated servers."

And he replied:

"Ah, yeah we launched with dedicated servers on PC because you kinda have to. Steam doesn't provide the type of multiplayer servers required...and how they use "lists" for P2P was not the best route. So we went with dedi's on PC. But again, we acknowledge the need for it on console and have it in our pipeline. Just a lot of fires at the moment to put out." 

And rereading the tweet in question, it doesn't specify for consoles, so I was wrong for thinking they had "promised" anything, in that regard.

That one was totally my bad.

A big THANK YOU to wes for answering this, it was very much appreciated.

cruehitman likes this

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@2fast4u that's not true. All of the developers care about what we think, it's very important to them. They're working their asses off for us.

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6 minutes ago, The Arrogant Man said:

Excellent post, but I think some of the "toxic" people you're talking about are simply those who jumped off the boat a little faster than you. Otherwise great post, and a good reflection of most of our thoughts I think.

Genuinely the only people that I consider "toxic" are people that complain about subjective things like they are facts, people that are needlessly offensive, and people that misunderstand things, have their misunderstanding pointed out to them, but then double down on their complaint anyway.

 

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Just now, Kodiak said:

@2fast4u that's not true. All of the developers care about what we think, it's very important to them. They're working their asses off for us.

yep im sure they are. you can keep on thinking that. so far they are 0 and 3

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@RKSDooM I am tagging you since your narrative was long. The problem with cert is the following. You would submit a patch for cert. The cert team reviews it. If it passes it will be pushed live. If you wait to release a trailer and you have already passes cert you will see the following. 

1) it will hit PC before consoles as that's usually the way it runs for all games. So in this instance PS4 was right on it. So PS4 and steam would have access to content before the reveal was even released. Managing cert on all platforms same day is no easy task. Major publishers such as blizzard have issues with this, but they also have more of a team to fix and resubmit if a failure was to occur. For instance, overwatch on PC always gets the DLC first. As certs are passed they will announce this is live on this X platform and do it in the order it passes. Multi-platform games are tough to manage, there is no doubt about that. It's unfortunate but all games are bound by these rules by platform owners. 

I know some feel snubbed that they did not get information as soon as they would have liked. It failed and there was a potential of it being turned around today. Unfortunately that did not happen. For some perspective, it's not like it was sat on for a week and it's being releases now. I don't know how to say this without sounding Curt but I am in no way meaning this in a negative way. No game company you currently purchase games from owes any customer up to the second updates on what is going on behind the scenes. You purchased a game not an ownership stake in the company. While information is a hot subject if you really think about it, the information is pretty decent turn around when the info can be confirmed. 

Look at the scenario for the Xbox patch. Comments to the effect of "you lied" "you promised X" ect start to arise. Information should always be confirmed before it is said. If something is uncertain you walk that very little tightrope and hope for the best. I think most can agree that confirmed information is better than guesses right? Everything takes work, from server issues, to patches, to future plans. These details need to be ironed out because no one likes to expect something and be let down. It's not to slight anyone and it not to lie its actually quite the opposite. Sometimes lack of update is not indicative of a lack of work. No one from Gun likes having to come out on the carpet and apologize but they are making the effort to apologize when they make a mistake it's more than I see from a lot of different companies these day. It shows that you are important and that they don't want to let you down. Sometimes things happen, and the only path forward is to keep plugging away.

Often times I try to drop info that I pick up that I can into the forums. Most times I already see a thread about it before I get here. So the news is out there and it does come here but you all are very active here and at times it's almost impossible to beat some of you.

I liked how your post was not a typical rage post and it shows you put a lot of thought into it. I just wanted to add my two cents into the mix. 

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5 minutes ago, JPops said:

@RKSDooM I am tagging you since your narrative was long. The problem with cert is the following. You would submit a patch for cert. The cert team reviews it. If it passes it will be pushed live. If you wait to release a trailer and you have already passes cert you will see the following. 

1) it will hit PC before consoles as that's usually the way it runs for all games. So in this instance PS4 was right on it. So PS4 and steam would have access to content before the reveal was even released. Managing cert on all platforms same day is no easy task. Major publishers such as blizzard have issues with this, but they also have more of a team to fix and resubmit if a failure was to occur. For instance, overwatch on PC always gets the DLC first. As certs are passed they will announce this is live on this X platform and do it in the order it passes. Multi-platform games are tough to manage, there is no doubt about that. It's unfortunate but all games are bound by these rules by platform owners. 

I know some feel snubbed that they did not get information as soon as they would have liked. It failed and there was a potential of it being turned around today. Unfortunately that did not happen. For some perspective, it's not like it was sat on for a week and it's being releases now. I don't know how to say this without sounding Curt but I am in no way meaning this in a negative way. No game company you currently purchase games from owes any customer up to the second updates on what is going on behind the scenes. You purchased a game not an ownership stake in the company. While information is a hot subject if you really think about it, the information is pretty decent turn around when the info can be confirmed. 

Look at the scenario for the Xbox patch. Comments to the effect of "you lied" "you promised X" ect start to arise. Information should always be confirmed before it is said. If something is uncertain you walk that very little tightrope and hope for the best. I think most can agree that confirmed information is better than guesses right? Everything takes work, from server issues, to patches, to future plans. These details need to be ironed out because no one likes to expect something and be let down. It's not to slight anyone and it not to lie its actually quite the opposite. Sometimes lack of update is not indicative of a lack of work. No one from Gun likes having to come out on the carpet and apologize but they are making the effort to apologize when they make a mistake it's more than I see from a lot of different companies these day. It shows that you are important and that they don't want to let you down. Sometimes things happen, and the only path forward is to keep plugging away.

Often times I try to drop info that I pick up that I can into the forums. Most times I already see a thread about it before I get here. So the news is out there and it does come here but you all are very active here and at times it's almost impossible to beat some of you.

I liked how your post was not a typical rage post and it shows you put a lot of thought into it. I just wanted to add my two cents into the mix. 

Nice job putting things into perspective Pop. Appreciate your presence here.

A.J. Mason likes this

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@JPops

Thank you for your response :).

Honestly, the only problem I have with the delay is that they put out a release date before knowing for certain that they could meet it. I would much prefer a "COMING SOON" trailer, without a date, then a trailer with a date that they may not be able to make due to the certification process. Especially when this isn't the first time that the process has caused a delay with a patch, so I don't feel that this was some unforeseeable occurrence.

I do appreciate the effort being put into getting all the content to everyone at once (even though it wouldn't personally bother me if PC or PS4 users got it first, for whatever reasons), but no one even knew that this content was coming, so there really was no need to put a release date on it if it wasn't a 100% sure thing.

It was that decision that makes it feel like it was more about undermining DEAD BY DAYLIGHT than it was about saying sorry to the fans, because putting a COMING SOON on that trailer, and then having it release this weekend or whatever, would surely have gone over better than slapping a date on there that they then miss, for the exact same reasons that a previous patch was also delayed.

But, having typed all of this, and actually getting a response regarding the Dedicated Servers, has succeeded in returning most of my chill. I'll still probably take a break from the game until this weekend, but I'm not feeling nearly as frustrated as I was before.

Thank you again for the info, JPops!

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2 minutes ago, JPops said:

 

I know some feel snubbed that they did not get information as soon as they would have liked. It failed and there was a potential of it being turned around today. Unfortunately that did not happen. For some perspective, it's not like it was sat on for a week and it's being releases now. I don't know how to say this without sounding Curt but I am in no way meaning this in a negative way. No game company you currently purchase games from owes any customer up to the second updates on what is going on behind the scenes. You purchased a game not an ownership stake in the company. While information is a hot subject if you really think about it, the information is pretty decent turn around when the info can be confirmed. 

Look at the scenario for the Xbox patch. Comments to the effect of "you lied" "you promised X" ect start to arise. Information should always be confirmed before it is said. If something is uncertain you walk that very little tightrope and hope for the best. I think most can agree that confirmed information is better than guesses right? Everything takes work, from server issues, to patches, to future plans. These details need to be ironed out because no one likes to expect something and be let down. It's not to slight anyone and it not to lie its actually quite the opposite. Sometimes lack of update is not indicative of a lack of work. No one from Gun likes having to come out on the carpet and apologize but they are making the effort to apologize when they make a mistake it's more than I see from a lot of different companies these day. It shows that you are important and that they don't want to let you down. Sometimes things happen, and the only path forward is to keep plugging away.

 

You guys are not a "normal" game. You took a lot of money from backers to build this and for 1/3rd of us this game has been broken. Mine currently has been nice in short sessions over the past few days thanks to the latest patch. Us xb1 backers are stuck between a rock and a hard place with this game as we cannot get a refund where as jimbob who bought it from the store can. So I think that you are wrong in this aspect. Now if you are referring to plans down the road then yea you are 100% right. But when a game is crippled with the same issue 3 patches in I think you all need to circle the wagons and have one of you stand above.

With regards to the last patch that came out Wednesday it was said they were hoping for a Thursday/Friday release, it came out on Saturday that the patch wasn't even submitted until Thursday. So the Thursday window was a lie because its just not possible for that turnaround to happen in that timeframe. Then if you ask if it was rejected you get an NDA response. Which apparently is now lifted since this DLC was. Its a lot of cloak and daggers. Well you know what the CM is supposed to be front and center for better or worst (s)he is the face of the company to us; a liaison if you will. When you struggle to get answers on the official forums and then have to check 4 or 5 places for information that "may or may not" be correct. Someone needs to start standing up and apologizing. There has been a ton of this recently from jx to new unique kill etc... I hate to break it to you but that is a key element of that role. Better roll that thick skin perk. Robert Bowling was the best I have ever seen he was a machine at relaying information to people, engaging the community and dealing with vitriol 100x more than anything from here. 

 

 

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I am as disappointed as most of the players on Xbox One with things as they are, I waited all day for an update on the status too, but this is not the first game with launch issues. I recall when Unreal came out on PC. Multiplayer lag rendered certain modes unplayable. They fixed it. I had patience then and more nowadays. I think people are jumping on Gun's case so hard because they are stepping forward and showing a face that people want to shout at. At least they are trying to own the problems. Things haven't been handled perfectly. That's life. At least no one paid the typical $50 or $60 associated with a console release. Even some of the greatest games still are bug infested. Fallout 4 comes to mind. Yeah, I know it would be impossible to play test every inch of that game, but Bethesda will NEVER fix Xbox One issues for that, like all the Brotherhood of Steel repeatable quests that hang up and don't allow you to finish/repeat them. Take a breath guys, they ARE addressing the problems the best way they can as far as I can tell.

 

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the fact is we waited 20 hours for a reskin. no new kills. no new strengths or weaknesses. so pissed right now

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3 minutes ago, Bigfoot said:

Even some of the greatest games still are bug infested. Fallout 4 comes to mind. 

You're not wrong. I had to restart my game several weeks in because FUCKING TINKER TOM WOULDN'T TALK TO ME ABOUT THE GODDAMN BALLISTIC FIBER.

Honestly, compared to the hopeless rage and frustration that caused me, the FRIDAY THE 13TH: THE GAME launch has been like a sensual massage.

God I fucking HATE Tinker Tom.

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LOL! Doom

3 minutes ago, 2fast4u said:

the fact is we waited 20 hours for a reskin. no new kills. no new strengths or weaknesses. so pissed right now

Right, they definitely need to look at A LOT more accurate information relays. I am with you. All I was hoping to do was maybe take the heightened "pissed" to miffed, or just disappointment.

2fast4u likes this

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Is it me or does this post feel like a crock of shit?

i need a Beer a tall boy! 

 

8 hours ago, 2fast4u said:

the fact is we waited 20 hours for a reskin. no new kills. no new strengths or weaknesses. so pissed right now

Waited for what dude??? Dude you were given a surprise for free that you had no clue about now your mad you had to wait a day for the release and so on? Lol now I really need a Beer!

Namrockjr likes this

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It says in his message something about them not really owing you anykind of update at all really as the customer or something like that. I would of worded that better but technically it is correct, we bought the steak not a VIP pass to the kitchen 

Fresh Jes likes this

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12 minutes ago, PowellCampsNAKED said:

Is it me or does this post feel like a crock of shit?

i need a Beer a tall boy! 

Amazing insight, Powell. Thank you for that. :P

(Obvious sarcasm is obvious.)

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