HodderFodder

Why hide?

49 posts in this topic

Watching many Beta videos, hiding seems to be a death sentence.

 

It makes some kind of sense if you're in a cabin room with multiple hiding places. Jason picks the wrong hiding place, he attacks it/has to free his weapon, giving you time to bolt. But the important thing here is that all the hiding places are within view of yours; if you're under the bed, you can see Jason go to a different part of the room.

 

Other hiding places outside aren't so great. Like hiding in an outhouse, or in a tent, the available view doesn't have that benefit; I saw one person hide in the outhouse and they could only see what was in front of the outhouse--literally nothing useful.

tyrant666 and Liva like this

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It is a fair argument.

 

The devs made a huge deal about hiding in the early parts of development. From what I've seen and just as you said, watching others. Hiding almost always ended in the player dying.

 

I definitely hope its been tweaked since beta, because it was literally worthless in beta.

Arakos and TacoMasters like this

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Hiding should be something that throws Jason off the scent of the counselor who actually takes the time to hide. It should be rewarding for the counselor, but also not take away from Jason and his abilities. I'd say a simple compromise would be disabling or tweaking the breathing mechanic. Let the counselors be silent and force Jason to go through all the area where the counselor can hide. This gives the counselor time to hide and leave if they have the opportunity.

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Hiding could be useful because when your hiding in a cabin under a bed or in a cabinet the house isn't illuminated red anymore unless they changed that from some of the videos I've seen. But also the characters with higher composure stats will be more valuable in the gameplay because they make less noise so making hiding more useful in some situations and I thing I remember hearing the packanack lodge will be a more hide emphasized map so if there are a crap ton of hiding place sin one place and your hide Jason might just start hacking wherever and if you time it right when his weapon gets stuck run

The-Almighty-Zugs likes this

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It did come in handy a few times during the beta. Jason was after a few of us and I hide in a closet, ran past me and went after the other guy. You kinda screw over the person he's chasing but it does give you a small window to escape. If you're by yourself though, hiding usually was a death sentence.

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I didn't see a point in hiding really. The only time it seemed to go okay was when someone was playing as Jason for the first time and didn't really know how to use any of his abilities.

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Hiding could be useful because when your hiding in a cabin under a bed or in a cabinet the house isn't illuminated red anymore unless they changed that from some of the videos I've seen. But also the characters with higher composure stats will be more valuable in the gameplay because they make less noise so making hiding more useful in some situations and I thing I remember hearing the packanack lodge will be a more hide emphasized map so if there are a crap ton of hiding place sin one place and your hide Jason might just start hacking wherever and if you time it right when his weapon gets stuck run

 

 

My issue though is, if the counselor can't tell where Jason is while hiding, then they have no idea where their window is to jump out and run. The only broken element of hiding is someone hiding the entire game.

 

Maybe a way to fix this is that Jason's Sense ability can pick out hiding targets in the late game. The way it now works, the Sense ability grows wider as the game progresses, so that late-game Jason can Sense across the whole map. So already they've built in a progression system. Hiding reduces your Fear, so normally Jason's sense ability won't spot someone. Fiddle with the Sense ability so that the later in the match, and the longer someone has hidden, the more obvious they are to the Sense ability, so that by the time Jason's Sense is at it's peak, hiding is moot. And the longer they've been hiding, the more obvious they are.

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Hiding when you have low composure and Jason is close to you is a totally bad decision, but if Jason is not that close and you're playing Jenny or AJ, you have some good chances to avoid him.

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Hiding when you have low composure and Jason is close to you is a totally bad decision, but if Jason is not that close and you're playing Jenny or AJ, you have some good chances to avoid him.

This. Hiding as AJ in the beta saved my ass multiple times. :)

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Hide should be attached to composure and luck, so Chad, AJ and specially Jenny would have great chances to survive while hiding.

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I hid often during the beta and managed to screw with Jason a few times. And escape MOST of the time.. it got to the point where the only person I wanted to play was AJ

 

One time I hid in the second story of Higgins behind the wooden... what the hell do you call that thing? Changing Veil or something?

 

Jason didn't expect it and didn't notice me even when he walked into the room, that combined with the perks that randomly make the house's red outline not pop up and liberal use of the radio, I managed to hide the final 6 mins of the game and get a time out victory.

 

On another occasion I managed to stall Jason on AJ by constantly weaving in and out of a house and crouching in corners. It made my red line fade... he would continuously wander off trying to find me and come back to me like 2 mins later. I survived 8 minutes after all the other campers had died and quite a few of them post game where like "Holy shit! How did you do that?!"

 

The simple answer it's impossible to fully control. Stealth had NO EFFECT on Sense during the beta. It only effected sound... so the cornerstone to stealthing was abusing the SHIT out of the 65% chance worth of perks that let you avoid getting sensed while crouching.

 

It seemed to work on randomly every time Jason popped sense and allowed you to basically vanish if you got lucky.

 

In my opinion they need to nerf those perks and make it so the stealth stat itself affects senses ability to detect you, even if its only a bit.

Splatterhouse likes this

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I hid often during the beta and managed to screw with Jason a few times. And escape MOST of the time.. it got to the point where the only person I wanted to play was AJ

 

One time I hid in the second story of Higgins behind the wooden... what the hell do you call that thing? Changing Veil or something?

 

Jason didn't expect it and didn't notice me even when he walked into the room, that combined with the perks that randomly make the house's red outline not pop up and liberal use of the radio, I managed to hide the final 6 mins of the game and get a time out victory.

 

On another occasion I managed to stall Jason on AJ by constantly weaving in and out of a house and crouching in corners. It made my red line fade... he would continuously wander off trying to find me and come back to me like 2 mins later. I survived 8 minutes after all the other campers had died and quite a few of them post game where like "Holy shit! How did you do that?!"

 

The simple answer it's impossible to fully control. Stealth had NO EFFECT on Sense during the beta. It only effected sound... so the cornerstone to stealthing was abusing the SHIT out of the 65% chance worth of perks that let you avoid getting sensed while crouching.

 

It seemed to work on randomly every time Jason popped sense and allowed you to basically vanish if you got lucky.

 

In my opinion they need to nerf those perks and make it so the stealth stat itself affects senses ability to detect you, even if its only a bit.

That's what composure does though. The glow is Jason sensing your fear, so if you stay composed there's already a chance you won't show up. I do think those perks were pretty powerful, but I still don't feel like the broke the game. It just made you use your sense ability a bit differently as Jason. Instead of just turning it on and running it out, you just turn it off and on in short intervals so that it didn't take long for it recharge. :)
Hal Bailman likes this

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I would tweak hiding like so:

 

Instead of having to guess when your character was gonna panic (which you had no way of stopping) just have your character hide and be quiet.

 

The more composure your character has the longer they can hide silently without panicking.

 

However, a few seconds before your character begins to panic, you get your "hold breath" prompt which has your character hold their breath to avoid panicking.  Your bar is slowly depleated, and is depleated slower depending on your character's stealth rating.

 

So Jenny would probably be able to hide for a whole minute and thirty seconds while in Jason's presence before panicking, and since she has a stealth rating of six, she can hold her breath for about 40s.  That gives someone with Max composure and Six stealth two minutes and ten seconds of hiding time, which considering most circumstances is a lot.

 

That would make hiding much more useful, because you can hide longer without being panicked, rather than being like "OH GOD DON'T SEE ME I'M RIGHT OVER HERE JASON COME KILL ME" as soon as he walks into a room.

 

 

 

 

I hid often during the beta and managed to screw with Jason a few times. And escape MOST of the time.. it got to the point where the only person I wanted to play was AJ

 

One time I hid in the second story of Higgins behind the wooden... what the hell do you call that thing? Changing Veil or something?

 

Jason didn't expect it and didn't notice me even when he walked into the room, that combined with the perks that randomly make the house's red outline not pop up and liberal use of the radio, I managed to hide the final 6 mins of the game and get a time out victory.

 

On another occasion I managed to stall Jason on AJ by constantly weaving in and out of a house and crouching in corners. It made my red line fade... he would continuously wander off trying to find me and come back to me like 2 mins later. I survived 8 minutes after all the other campers had died and quite a few of them post game where like "Holy shit! How did you do that?!"

 

The simple answer it's impossible to fully control. Stealth had NO EFFECT on Sense during the beta. It only effected sound... so the cornerstone to stealthing was abusing the SHIT out of the 65% chance worth of perks that let you avoid getting sensed while crouching.

 

It seemed to work on randomly every time Jason popped sense and allowed you to basically vanish if you got lucky.

 

In my opinion they need to nerf those perks and make it so the stealth stat itself affects senses ability to detect you, even if its only a bit.

 

 

Well, I'd say that they should nerf the perks as well.

 

But the consequence of hiding the whole match is that you lose out on a ton of XP from escaping.  The main hunk of XP comes from escaping alive and making repairs.  Everything else is a few things you pick up on here and there.

 

So I'd decrease your chance of escaping alive, by having Jason be able to detect and see you by default and reset all his abilities the last two minutes of the match before he gives up.

fbrrrs and Hal Bailman like this

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I've made good use out of impractical hiding places. There's a folding screen in one of the rooms in the Higgins house and I managed to escape Jason by hiding behind that. But one of the things that sucks is having to hold your breath, it's such a short period of time and Jason could just stand in the room and wait to hear a noise. I managed to guess correctly almost every time someone hid from me. 

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I was able to pull the wool over the eyes of a Jason player. I was playing Chad and slid under a bed. Now Jason still went for the beds, but he picked the wrong one and I was able to break out and lose him. A decent accomplishment, seeing as I was the last living counselor.

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Stealth is fine but hiding could be tweaked a little through stats (which they have done).

 

In Beta, when i had the right character and perks i was nearly always escaping just from hiding and stealth... but so often it was no fun lol

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Hiding in closets, sleeping bags, under beds, or in tents has the potential to evade Jason's sense ability.  If you're in a house / cabin, under a bed, and Jason uses sense there's a chance that the house / cabin you're in won't highlight.

 

When I hear that first Ki Ki Ki, Ma Ma Ma and I'm in a cabin, I either just start stealthing like crazy or hit the nearest hiding place.  You give it about ten seconds, and then go about your business.  Jason should have picked up on somebody else, or had to make a guess if nobody popped positive for sense.  It's not a guarantee, but it is helpful.

 

The hiding places are NOT primarily to get you away from Jason if he's on your tail.  They're best at keeping you off his radar to begin with.  If he's on your tail, you better break line of sight and get some distance - running one room over and ducking under a cot isn't going to fool anybody.

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It is a fair argument.

 

The devs made a huge deal about hiding in the early parts of development. From what I've seen and just as you said, watching others. Hiding almost always ended in the player dying.

 

I definitely hope its been tweaked since beta, because it was literally worthless in beta.

One of the problems that I think led to that was even if people had characters with high composure they would almost always say something when Jason entered the room like"I hope he doesn't find me." Now if there are 2 places to hide in a room and the sound came from that cabinet over there, you're screwed. So I do hope they tweak that a little. You shouldn't be blurting out loud when you're trying to hide. Scream maybe if you totally lose your composure by watching your friend be impaled on a spike in the corner, but not saying stuff like I hope he doesn't find me.

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I believe hiding with be a more viable option with Jason now having the stalk ability.

 

Much like in the movies (part 2 in particular) Jason would enter a room where a counselor was hiding. He knew (or thought) someone was in there and would leave (or pretend to leave) and kill them as they came out of their hiding spot.

 

I feel like stalk will open up the ability for Jason to "catch" someone hiding without having to necessarily see them or just attack every hiding spot.

 

 

The tent is going to be checked EVERY TIME because of the context kill of the sleeping bag. So it pretty pointless to hide in there.

Tommy Doyle likes this

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My thoughts on

How to make hide more viable and dynamic.

 

Here are my thoughts on how to make hiding a much more enjoyable and utilizable part of the game.

 

1st.) the moment a player hides, they instantly get a momentary boost in composure and reduction or elimination of fear. Fear grows slower when hiding because the "character" will feel some sense of safety while being hidden.

 

2nd.) For the first 30 seconds to 1 minute, the player is protected from Jason's sense ability (exceptions to this may apply later):

After that time, a counselors composure and fear become dependent upon a mini game you must play to keep yourself "hidden" from Jason. Mistakes aren't "instant notify" across the map like mistakes in the phone game are, they simply allow fear to increase more. The difficulty of the mini game increases the longer you remain hidden. Starting difficulty is dependent upon base composure and luck stats.

 

3rd.) when hiding, seeing Jason doesn't impact fear the same way it does when you spot him in the open. And the level of fear you experience is dependent upon a sudden change in difficulty of the mini game... perhaps an additional button press or a pattern change in a rhythmic game like the phone fix. Significant failure of the game when Jason is in sight of you will instantly notify him of your presence. Much like in the movies when the victim knows he's coming at that closet (Chris, part 3). Game music will be quiet or mute while hiding. If/when Jason appears, a sudden loud sound will play (jump scare moment) as the mini-game changes so a players own personal composure may make a difference as well.

 

-now... about Jason just attacking every hidey-hole.

 

4th.) Jason is most venerable when his weapon is stuck as he is trying to retrieve it. During this venerable period, he is much more affected by attacks, stunning him longer that a normal attack. An attack on Jason while his weapon is stuck omits character strength so any character can one hit stun Jason when he has attacked an empty hiding space. If a player is hiding close to where Jason has attacked empty hiding spot, the hiding player can come out, attack, and run. This can also allow players to team up against Jason in various ways. This will deter the Jason player from randomly attacking the hide spots.

 

5th.) when a successful stun occurs (in this or possibly other stuns) the adrenaline rush of that moment allows a 3 second (more or less) suspension of stamina reduction and a momentary speed boost.

This allows a hiding counselor or stunning counselor to get a big lead and possibly find another hiding spot while Jason is stunned.

 

------------------------

 

Seems a little unfair to Jason right,

 

6th.) When things like this happen in the movies, it royally pisses Jason off. So, once a counselor has performed this action, Jason can target that player the next time he "sees him/her" and can incorporate "stalk" in such a way that as long as Jason remains in pursuit of that player, that player can continue to be tracked.

 

7th.) once a player has successfully "hidden from" and "stunned" Jason in this way; the "hiding" mini game becomes more difficult. This represents a sense of confidence the counselor would experience after having successfully hidden from Jason already, hence, more likely to make a mistake.

 

8th.) after the half way point, the hiding game becomes much more difficult, especially to a player who has already successfully hidden and stunned Jason in this match. This adds to the concept of tension building over time and encourages the "escape" behavior over simply "hide my way to the 20 minutes" behavior.

 

The last 3 of course will prevent a player from simply getting good at the hiding game and using it repeatedly to stay alive.

 

I'm going to post this to the feedback section as well.

 

If anyone likes it, it may garner more attention there than here.

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One of the problems that I think led to that was even if people had characters with high composure they would almost always say something when Jason entered the room like"I hope he doesn't find me." Now if there are 2 places to hide in a room and the sound came from that cabinet over there, you're screwed. So I do hope they tweak that a little. You shouldn't be blurting out loud when you're trying to hide. Scream maybe if you totally lose your composure by watching your friend be impaled on a spike in the corner, but not saying stuff like I hope he doesn't find me.

Wes said this was a bug during beta and it was fixed. So no more talking while hiding.

Fatalfox likes this

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Wes said this was a bug during beta and it was fixed. So no more talking while hiding.

Guess that one slipped by me. Good to know that at least. :)

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