wes

Jason Traps Quick Q&A

245 posts in this topic

We discussed allowing counselors to disarm the traps. And we're still open to it, but here's some food for thought:

 

Imagine you have the battery, you approach the car, and you clearly see that Jason placed a trap precisely where you have to stand to put said battery on the car. Major suckage. So what do you do? Well, you have two options. You take one for the team, step on the trap, get hurt and hope that Jason was too preoccupied with something else, to come kill you where you stand. The other option you have is to simply drop the battery near the car, and let someone else step on the trap. Dirty deeds, right?

 

Those are uncomfortable, hard decisions to make. Hurt myself or screw a teammate? You should have to stop and weigh the consequences and not just mindlessly click buttons. It is a horror game, remember? We think a small part of that is dreading a tough decision. There aren't many games that allow that type of agency. Perhaps that's for a good reason, and we're all dum dums. If we are, and this feature sucks, we'll make adjustments. All I ask is you go into with a little more of an open mind. Put on your horror glasses, and look at this through the lenses we use every day.

 

-W  

I like the idea i also think it will help with the chase around around game people where doing

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I like the idea i also think it will help with the chase around around game people where doing

 

Oh you mean where people round run circles around cars/fences? It could help but is probably easily avoided :) Throwing weapons are the main thing that'll stop people from running circles around objects.

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Whoa! You guys are so passionate about this it's amazing.

 

The devs know about the trap situation for sure.

 

What's going to be best right now for the most part, is to just let the game go ahead and release, and let's WATCH and OBSERVE first how people play with the amount of traps they get.

Myself and others.. we like to speculate the worst, because I foresee and have that **GAMEPLAY ISSUE** alarm that goes off in my head.. but honestly you guys. Patience. For the most part, I think this is going to have to receive several hard core playtests to see if it's an actual problem.

 

It may not play out exactly like we have in our heads... Jason players might start with the intention of trapping all objectives, but get distracted halfway through.. remember, there are knives they will want, counselors may cross Jason's path, there are SOUND PINGS they will see. And whatever ELSE may be out there that can pull Jason away from the, "I'm going to trap everything" mindset.

 

True, there may need to be something in place for later AFTER RELEASE to adjust this process with the traps.. but ALSO, I think it's AS EQUALLY IMPORTANT to let the devs sit back, relax and watch us play with the current trap system they have so they can accurately and 100% digest all the information they need to obtain from A: Watching us play, and B: Getting feedback after people HAVE PLAYED THE GAME. That way if additional stuff pops up, they'll be able to tend to that as well.

 

So while I still agree there should be a system. I think everyone should chill for a bit and let them do their thing.. after release, then people can give more educated feedback for them, having been in the heat of battle.

Laphin, I'd have to disagree to a certain extent.

 

Yes I don't think it'll be hard to fix via feedback, however us being so close to launch, I'm concerned that it will drive people away because people WILL exploit it.

 

Bad mechanics drive people away from a game. It'll hurt this game after launch I think, so I believe personally it's best if we nip this in the butt now, especially since we know the 'exploit' is intentional.

 

It's like the Trapper with Hooks in Dead By Daylight. Except this is worse because you have no choice but to sacrifice yourself unfairly despite the obvious placement of traps. In DbD the Trapper was punished for obvious traps and he had to be smart with them.

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To be honest, my personal feelings on this are mixed. I was right on my other thread when I said that Jason has custom traps, but I wasn't expecting them to be more deadly than counsellor ones. From what I remember, stepping in a trap in the beta basically took your health down to the point where you couldn't run.

 

Trapping objectives is fair, Jason can only be one place at once. If you're desperate to put a bit in the car, wait 'til he shows up somewhere on the map so you can see where he is and do it then. Troll Jasons will definitely just chuck down a bunch of traps in objective locations, but those of us who know about that should be able to do something about it.

 

Simple solution: Don't step in a trap without full health, and only step in it if you feel you absolutely have to. Hell, go put your own bear trap at the objectives before Jason does if it bothers you that much :) Beat him to the punch. You can disarm your own traps.

It's not fair.

 

That's not a fair thing for players. Seeing a trap and having NO CHOICE but to sacrifice your safety in order to move it isn't fair it's annoyin especially if he camps with it and leaves Morph active.

 

If this remains at launch I will show you how to exploit this for absurd gain.

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I think there's a handful of aspects most aren't keeping in mind with their "The sky is falling on my game world" mentality about these traps.

1) they're game testing this so it's clear that they're going to make sure it's not OP. They've come this far, it's not like they're purposely looking for ways to break the game a month or so from release date... If having 5 traps is too overpowering, they'll lower it accordingly.

2) Jason can't morph more than once every few minutes, so he's not going to be able to hit the car, fuse box, and other important locations without wasting a ton of game time walking to all the the areas on the map. I'm even pretty sure that Wes or Ben mentioned that they also made Jason's first initial morph ability take longer to charge than it used to in the beta, I could be wrong about that part though. If a Jason player wants to spend the first 3-5 minutes placing traps while I get the chance to search some cabins and build up a defense, then I'm cool with that.

3) The devs already said that there will be more ways to escape than just what was featured in the beta. So there might be more escape methods than Jason has traps, and we just haven't seen them yet. This could be part of the way the devs are addressing the fact that Jason can't possibly protect every method of escape against a well-tuned group of counselors. The traps allow him to be in more than one place at a time, and makes morph a lot more valuable to hold onto rather than just combo-ing it with sense and immediately warping to the nearest player on the map right when it's charged (which is what almost everyone did during the beta).

4) This just further encourages players to work as a team and cover each other if one falls into these traps. It also helps with lone wolf Vanessa players. Vanessa players that try to track and field around the map all game are going to be less effective now because they won't have anyone to help protect them if they hit a trap. Jason can just warp to them and finish the job.

 

That's just a few thoughts from my viewpoint. Can it be a bad design idea? yeah, maybe. I just don't buy that these guys have come all this way and are going to ruin the entire game this close to release. I guess we'll see soon enough...

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It's not fair.

 

That's not a fair thing for players. Seeing a trap and having NO CHOICE but to sacrifice your safety in order to move it isn't fair it's annoyin especially if he camps with it and leaves Morph active.

 

If this remains at launch I will show you how to exploit this for absurd gain.

 

Oh I know a few ways that it could potentially be exploited. E.g.: hang around with stalk, wait 'til someone steps in it, morph over and instakill.

 

As I said though, it's not like there's no way to counter it. First aid spray and a knife will do for most situations, unless the player is a chop happy Jason. Some Jasons may only have as few as 2 traps, so it's not like they can trap every objective :)

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So every Jason will have at least one trap?

 

This does make trying to survive even more difficult and should make it rare to surive. I like it.

 

At least once he lays them down they are there and he can't move them around. The objective trapping could be pretty annoying and people WILL DO IT.

 

I don't know what we could do about it. Jason having traps is great, but maybe they could limit it to where he can only use 1 trap for 1 objective area somehow?

 

Like I know I would put 1 trap in front of the phone box, then another in front of the battery/gas area of a car for sure. So I'm almost guranteed getting 2 traps set off every match right?

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Since pocket knives exist, the meta will be to just show up and hack them to pieces while they're trapped, rather than grab them out and go for a kill that way.

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It's most likely gonna be a game of "Step in it" "No you step in it asshat" etc. Personally there could be a perk to disarm them but make it time consuming since these traps don't refill for Jason so it could be a risk for reward type deal and it'll have to be a skill that's unlocked, not given to you as soon as you get the game.

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More I think about this - the less enthusiastic I become. Trap setting doesn't fit any of the Jason's bar Part 2. But then the notion that Part 2 Jason actually set that rope trap in the film itself is debatable anyway. It's ambiguous and we never again see anything like that in the series (apart from in the crappy remake which most fans don't like).  I don't really regard the setting of traps as part of Jason's MO. Don't really feel this concept is faithful to the lore - which is in direct contrast to everything else that has been implemented in the game. 

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More I think about this - the less enthusiastic I become. Trap setting doesn't fit any of the Jason's bar Part 2. But then the notion that Part 2 Jason actually set that rope trap in the film itself is debatable anyway. It's ambiguous and we never again see anything like that in the series (apart from in the crappy remake which most fans don't like).  I don't really regard the setting of traps as part of Jason's MO. Don't feel its faithful to the lore - which is in direct contrast to everything else that has been implemented in the game. 

 

 

You gotta look at it from a gameplay perspective as well. It's not that far fetched to begin with, and in a gameplay sense it helps out the slower jasons a bit. If you wanted 1:1 representation then you'd have jason start out completely unknown while players couldn't do much but wait to die. So there's one out immediately from the start. Stuff like that makes sense lore wise, but doesn't in a gameplay sense, right?

 

So there's a balance. And i honestly don't think having traps for jason upsets that balance enough to make a big difference and doesn't cut your suspension of disbelief that much.

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If the traps have a nice long cooldown after you place them it would make Jason have less ability to get up many traps at key points that quickly. I see where people are coming from and I'm also somewhat worried, hopefully though cooldowns will balance it.

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Tell me if im Wrong but guys you already so scared about you cant disarm traps that you stop thinking,

This game is NOT for Solo play Its TEAM vs Jason , 1 Take the trap and other help

example 1:someone with spray aid take the trap and the other one is standing near him and when jason is about to reach him just fucking drop a firecracker its stun him now...

example 2:put a trap urself before you take the trap

,example 3:1 is taking the trap and is waiting for jason to appear to shot him with flare gun

example 4:1 take the trap and other wait with weapon....

and there is more but i will not tell more of my secrets ,Dont change it gun Media i like it that way MORE TEAM PLAY!!! SO WE REALLY CAN ESCAPE

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If the traps have a nice long cooldown after you place them it would make Jason have less ability to get up many traps at key points that quickly. I see where people are coming from and I'm also somewhat worried, hopefully though cooldowns will balance it.

 

What cooldowns do ya need? I mean looking at what jason can and can't do, he can put down a max of 2 traps "at once". What i mean by this is that he can trap the area close to him, or morph and trap somewhere far away. After that the cooldown for morph starts lingering. The only option jason has then is to trap his close area. And i can't see a good situation in which a jason would do that. The only thing he COULD do is say trap down the phone box with literally every trap, so he gets lockdown on it but then what? No more traps. He made his choice. Won't take counselors long to figure that one out either.

 

Tell me if im Wrong but guys you already so scared about you cant disarm traps that you stop thinking,This game is NOT for Solo play Its TEAM vs Jason , 1 Take the trap and other help example 1:someone with spray aid take the trap and the other one is standing near him and when jason is about to reach him just fucking drop a firecracker its stun him now... example 2:put a trap urself before you take the trap,example 3:1 is taking the trap and is waiting for jason to appear to shot him with flare gun example 4:1 take the trap and other wait with weapon.... and there is more but i will not tell my secrets ,Dont change it gun Media i like it that way MORE TEAM PLAY!!! SO WE REALLY CAN ESCAPE

 

I don't know how much you've played online, and don't misunderstand this for mocking you, but you should be aware of the fact that randoms seldom help eachother. It's the exception, not the rule. So any game made around that premise is fukken doomed. And that ain't opinion, that's a fact. The way things are set up here works, because you aren't 100% reliant on your team. They're a supplement, not a demand. Though that being said the chances of survival are obviously higher if people work together.

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Thank for the answer but no offense this was hopefully for Wes to answer for the sake of something being confirmed not speculated. But thanks anyways.

 

Fair enough. Still, I don't think that this is speculations because you can clearly see the throwing weapons counter depleting when they are used in this video:

so it is pretty obvious they are limited.

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I think they probably just shouldn't allow them within a certain distance of the objective. It doesn't have to be a huge area. Just enough that they can at least attempt to get the objective. I wouldn't mind not being able to disarm them if that were the case.

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Laphin, I'd have to disagree to a certain extent.

 

Yes I don't think it'll be hard to fix via feedback, however us being so close to launch, I'm concerned that it will drive people away because people WILL exploit it.

 

Bad mechanics drive people away from a game. It'll hurt this game after launch I think, so I believe personally it's best if we nip this in the butt now, especially since we know the 'exploit' is intentional.

 

It's like the Trapper with Hooks in Dead By Daylight. Except this is worse because you have no choice but to sacrifice yourself unfairly despite the obvious placement of traps. In DbD the Trapper was punished for obvious traps and he had to be smart with them.

 

There is no NIPPING it in the butt NOW, unless you don't want to see the game in early 2017. ;)   It can be fixed after the game's out.

This isn't DBD.. and it's not all about traps.. Like you're making it seem to be.

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Tell me if im Wrong but guys you already so scared about you cant disarm traps that you stop thinking,

This game is NOT for Solo play Its TEAM vs Jason , 1 Take the trap and other help

example 1:someone with spray aid take the trap and the other one is standing near him and when jason is about to reach him just fucking drop a firecracker its stun him now...

example 2:put a trap urself before you take the trap

,example 3:1 is taking the trap and is waiting for jason to appear to shot him with flare gun

example 4:1 take the trap and other wait with weapon....

and there is more but i will not tell more of my secrets ,Dont change it gun Media i like it that way MORE TEAM PLAY!!! SO WE REALLY CAN ESCAPE

 

 

Welcome to the forum, but please be sure to read the rules and guidelines and make an introduction post ;)

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Laphin, I'd have to disagree to a certain extent.

 so I believe personally it's best if we nip this in the butt now, especially since we know the 'exploit' is intentional.

 

 

 

There is no NIPPING it in the butt NOW

 

Pretty sure the expression is nipping it in the bud.

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I think there's a handful of aspects most aren't keeping in mind with their "The sky is falling on my game world" mentality about these traps.

1) they're game testing this so it's clear that they're going to make sure it's not OP. They've come this far, it's not like they're purposely looking for ways to break the game a month or so from release date... If having 5 traps is too overpowering, they'll lower it accordingly.

2) Jason can't morph more than once every few minutes, so he's not going to be able to hit the car, fuse box, and other important locations without wasting a ton of game time walking to all the the areas on the map. I'm even pretty sure that Wes or Ben mentioned that they also made Jason's first initial morph ability take longer to charge than it used to in the beta, I could be wrong about that part though. If a Jason player wants to spend the first 3-5 minutes placing traps while I get the chance to search some cabins and build up a defense, then I'm cool with that.

3) The devs already said that there will be more ways to escape than just what was featured in the beta. So there might be more escape methods than Jason has traps, and we just haven't seen them yet. This could be part of the way the devs are addressing the fact that Jason can't possibly protect every method of escape against a well-tuned group of counselors. The traps allow him to be in more than one place at a time, and makes morph a lot more valuable to hold onto rather than just combo-ing it with sense and immediately warping to the nearest player on the map right when it's charged (which is what almost everyone did during the beta).

4) This just further encourages players to work as a team and cover each other if one falls into these traps. It also helps with lone wolf Vanessa players. Vanessa players that try to track and field around the map all game are going to be less effective now because they won't have anyone to help protect them if they hit a trap. Jason can just warp to them and finish the job.

 

That's just a few thoughts from my viewpoint. Can it be a bad design idea? yeah, maybe. I just don't buy that these guys have come all this way and are going to ruin the entire game this close to release. I guess we'll see soon enough...

 

1. Sounds like an argumentum ad verecundiam or maybe a variant of an Appeal to Motive.  I don’t know for sure but I’m fairly certain it’s fallacious.  It sounds like a presupposition that the game devs cannot make a mistake because the release date is near or because it's their job to not make mistakes in their desired field... of course it isn't ideal to make mistakes, that's why it's a mistake.  Nobody suggesting that they are purposefully sabotaging their game.

 

2. Jason can have a maximum of five traps.  That means he can spam it at certain points at the car (one at the Gas, one at the Battery, one at the Driver’s seat) and harass counselors there EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE AWARE OF IT.  That’s the key.  It requires no thought or effort on Jason’s part to place the traps hidden or well thought out.  It rewards Jason for laziness, and it’s far easier to trap counselors when they are FORCED to tread through your traps with no way to disarm it.  That’s not fair because most counselors would know better, and they have to be punished anyway.  It won’t make matches fun.  It’ll make them really annoying.  Your argument doesn’t make sense because who gives a crap about defense when Jason 2 has four traps on the Phone Box?  He negates your efforts by forcing you to be put in danger to a maximum of five times before even getting to the objective.  Predictable.  Lazy.  Will be overdone.  Not fun.

 

3. We only have four means of escape right now.  Survive, Police, Car, and Boat.  If you know of any more I’d be happy to hear.

 

4. Fuck teamwork.

 

Your last statement is also fallacious. "Gun Media is incapable of making mistakes because we are close to launch" is not a good argument. Because yes, they most certainly are.  I don't think this would be detrimental, but it most certainly can be depending on how bad my fears are.

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There is no NIPPING it in the butt NOW, unless you don't want to see the game in early 2017. ;)   It can be fixed after the game's out.

This isn't DBD.. and it's not all about traps.. Like you're making it seem to be.

 

I'm not making it seem that way at all.  I'm looking at the obvious worse case scenario, and it seems to be built into the game.  

 

"You cannot disarm traps even if they are by an objective so you're just gonna have to step on it."

 

That will be a common thing, and it will make the game a pain in the butt if every time I walk up to the Phone Box I have to step in a damn Trap, then have Jason Morph to me, either killing me and replacing said trap, or I escape but he replaces the trap again, thus forcing me to once again put my neck on the line even though I am now fully aware that he is spamming traps on the Phone Box.  Once again, in Dead By Daylight, the Trapper would be punished for making traps obvious, his goal was to chase them into it.  Not the same here.  Imagine The Trapper in DbD able to lay traps and never be able to have them disarmed...

 

It makes gameplay predictable, and that is the last thing you want in a horror game.

 

So I want a little zone around the Phone Box, Car Doors/Gas/Hood, and the Boat.  That's not much to ask for as everywhere else would be fair game.  I think allowing Jason to Objective Trap would create unnecessary issues for little gain.

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Fair enough. Still, I don't think that this is speculations because you can clearly see the throwing weapons counter depleting when they are used in this so it is pretty obvious they are limited.

Thanks I actually didn't notice that good shouts mate.

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