Laphin

[Weapon] J7 Weed Whacker & Gameplay Balance

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If Jason (Part 7) were to be given a second weapon to buy with CP Points, I feel strongly that it should be the Weed Whacker.  Here's why.

 

The weed whacker, would be very terrifying to counselors (players) and would work similar to the movie scene it was shot with.

 

The weed whacker, if picked by the Jason player, would see them getting a score boost for kills made with it, BUT, it would be very difficult to make a kill with it, UNLESS the counselor you are chasing is wounded, or completely out of Stamina.  Why??  Fire the weed whacker up too early, and most EVERYONE will hear it, increasing chances of counselors avoiding Jason.  

 

Straight up chasing a counselor with it would be hard (not impossible), but slashing them once or twice (with it OFF, no noise)) to weaken them first and increase their fear on top of that is the preferred method.  Once they are wounded, Jason can then fire up the whacker, and make the kill for more points than a 'normal weapon'.

 

Jason would have to hold a button to crank the weed whacker up (it takes a moment).  In that moment, after cranking it, the noise can be heard by counselors within proximity, and by counselors in the distance.

 

Scenario:  How scary would it be to hear that sound getting closer behind you after you have completely tired out your counselor.  Or to hear Jason cutting through a cabin to get to you with it.  Jason Players could easily use the weed whacker to simply intimidate other players, get them to leave a cabin, run scatter.  People will hear that sound, and it's time to go.

 

I feel that the weed whacker is a great weapon to place inside the game.  The game mechanics for extra score using it would be balanced, and it would create a ton of fun and fear within the game.

 

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Obviously a unique Part 7 weapon.  Would make me WANT to play Part 7 more.

 

Hell, I'd main him if I could weed wack some counselors.

 

But perhaps we could be reading too much into it.  Yeah, it's loud if you crank it up, but who says it needs case or needs to be turned on every time?  Could just leave it running; you get danger music when Jason is within proximity anyway.

 

Of course they could have changed that in which case I think it's reasonable to say the weedwacker should be balanced a bit.  But as far as beta impressions go, I see no reason to make this simply another weapon, it just so happens to make some more noise.  Seems like a minor drawback.

 

___

 

I'd say Jason should be able to saw doors and thin walls down with the weapon, so he can simply go through them pre-rage.  Of course it takes a moment but you could mow down doors in a jiffy.  A good enough reward for the loud noises.  Plus that'd be terrifying.

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Here is what I have planned:

 

Weed Wacker

 

+ Increased Weapon Damage

 

+ Destroys any door

 

- Noise gives your position away (counselors also gets a sound ping when you let it go off)

 

- Sense is weaker

 

I think the hit on Sense is good enough drawback for the increased Weapon Damage.  It surrenders one of Part 7's strongsuits in place of buffing one of his weaknesses up.

 

Noise is okay because you are able to destroy any door with the weapon Pre-Rage, giving an early - mid match advantage.

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Obviously a unique Part 7 weapon.  Would make me WANT to play Part 7 more.

 

Hell, I'd main him if I could weed wack some counselors.

 

But perhaps we could be reading too much into it.  Yeah, it's loud if you crank it up, but who says it needs case or needs to be turned on every time?  Could just leave it running; you get danger music when Jason is within proximity anyway.

 

Of course they could have changed that in which case I think it's reasonable to say the weedwacker should be balanced a bit.  But as far as beta impressions go, I see no reason to make this simply another weapon, it just so happens to make some more noise.  Seems like a minor drawback.

 

___

 

I'd say Jason should be able to saw doors and thin walls down with the weapon, so he can simply go through them pre-rage.  Of course it takes a moment but you could mow down doors in a jiffy.  A good enough reward for the loud noises.  Plus that'd be terrifying.

 

 

The weed whacker would be able to be heard ALL OVER THE MAP (farther than the "Jason is close music".  Even if it's in the distance far away, leaving it on would tell counselors EXACTLY where Jason is at, at ALL times.  It would punish the Jason player for leaving it on constantly.  They'd never see a counselor.  Because the counselors would potentially KNOW where Jason is pin point, all the time.  Thus, the gameplay balance of having to turn it off.

 

Yes, if you are good enough, you could just leave it on and make a few kills POSSIBLY, but unless counselors are complete morons, they'd know to stay away from the noise.

Like Dark Souls, the weapon you pick is up to the player..  but you have to LEARN to use it.. There would be a challenge to get kills with it, thus the reward of more points.

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Here is what I have planned:

 

Weed Wacker

 

+ Increased Weapon Damage

 

+ Destroys any door

 

- Noise gives your position away (counselors also gets a sound ping when you let it go off)

 

- Sense is weaker

 

I think the hit on Sense is good enough drawback for the increased Weapon Damage.  It surrenders one of Part 7's strongsuits in place of buffing one of his weaknesses up.

 

Noise is okay because you are able to destroy any door with the weapon Pre-Rage, giving an early - mid match advantage.

 

I don't think the weapon destroying doors (like RAGE mode) is fair, by a long shot.

 

It could get through a door much faster than the axe's & machetes.. but Jason will not get through the door as fast as when he's in rage, that would be totally off balance to the counselors, and hurt the gameplay.  Counselors would have no time in the cabins, and that's no bueno.

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Laphin,

 

The team here discussed this weapon a loooong time ago. We thought it was very cool and our initial thoughts were inline with yours. However, there are two primary issues why we didn't include this as his weapon. It also hinders us putting this in as DLC later.

 

1. How would Jason chop down doors/break windows with a weed whacker? As you're aware, a major portion of this game centers on doors and windows. The system we built for Jason destroying a door is based off a melee swing. Meaning whatever weapon Jason is carrying needs to be able to "chop" at the door to break it down. Now could J7 just stand there at the door with the weedwhacker turned on, going beast on the door? Wood shavings flying until the door broke? Theoretically, yes. But that requires a new "door chopping" system be built just for that one weapon. 

 

2. Each Jason has a unique weapon; thusly each Jason has unique cinematic kills tied to the aforementioned weapon. Every single cinematic kill begins with a grab first. You can't start a cinematic kill on a counselor until you've grabbed them first. The weedwhacker is more of a two-handed weapon. Granted there are Jason's in the game that DO carry two-handed weapons, but they walk around carrying it with one hand. Could J7 walk around carrying the WW with one hand? Sure, but it would need to be shorter than J6's pole. Why? Well, when Jason approaches a closed but unlocked door, he needs to be able to reach down and open it. If the WW is longer than J6's pole, then the WW would clip through the door. Not cool. 

 

3. Lastly, the aforementioned cinematic kills...we would need to motion capture new kills for that weapon, create a new rig to match and try to make these kills unique looking. I'm sure, with some thought, we could come up with a few interesting ways to kill with a WW. But all of this takes time...lots of time. To pull this off it would be roughly 4 months of work, and an estimated cost of around $75K to do correctly. 

 

Not trying to rain on your parade, just letting you know how much goes into things like this. It's rarely a lack of ideas for why things are or are not they way they are...there's usually something bigger, harder, more expensive that lies underneath the surface. ;)

 

-W

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I don't think the weapon destroying doors is fair, by long shot.

 

It could get through a door much faster than the axe's & machetes.. but Jason will not get through the door as fast as when he's in rage, that would be totally off balance to the counselors, and hurt the gameplay.  Counselors would have no time in the cabins, and that's no bueno.

 

I'd argue that it is balanced out because Jason's Sense would be much weaker with the weapon.

 

And it's not like Rage mode where he can blast through in a moment, but it takes about three seconds and he can walk through.

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I also thought of the mocap before reading his comments. $75K I could think of several other things I would like to see that $ spent on but I like the idea. It would have been cool !

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Laphin,

 

The team here discussed this weapon a loooong time ago. We thought it was very cool and our initial thoughts were inline with yours. However, there are two primary issues why we didn't include this as his weapon. It also hinders us putting this in as DLC later.

 

1. How would Jason chop down doors/break windows with a weed whacker? As you're aware, a major portion of this game centers on doors and windows. The system we built for Jason destroying a door is based off a melee swing. Meaning whatever weapon Jason is carrying needs to be able to "chop" at the door to break it down. Now could J7 just stand there at the door with the weedwhacker turned on, going beast on the door? Wood shavings flying until the door broke? Theoretically, yes. But that requires a new "door chopping" system be built just for that one weapon. 

 

2. Each Jason has a unique weapon; thusly each Jason has unique cinematic kills tied to the aforementioned weapon. Every single cinematic kill begins with a grab first. You can't start a cinematic kill on a counselor until you've grabbed them first. The weedwhacker is more of a two-handed weapon. Granted there are Jason's in the game that DO carry two-handed weapons, but they walk around carrying it with one hand. Could J7 walk around carrying the WW with one hand? Sure, but it would need to be shorter than J6's pole. Why? Well, when Jason approaches a closed but unlocked door, he needs to be able to reach down and open it. If the WW is longer than J6's pole, then the WW would clip through the door. Not cool. 

 

3. Lastly, the aforementioned cinematic kills...we would need to motion capture new kills for that weapon, create a new rig to match and try to make these kills unique looking. I'm sure, with some thought, we could come up with a few interesting ways to kill with a WW. But all of this takes time...lots of time. To pull this off it would be roughly 4 months of work, and an estimated cost of around $75K to do correctly. 

 

Not trying to rain on your parade, just letting you know how much goes into things like this. It's rarely a lack of ideas for why things are or are not they way they are...there's usually something bigger, harder, more expensive that lies underneath the surface. ;)

 

-W

 

Would future weapons and kills be a big thing after launch?

 

Seems like a sensible route to take.  And considering it's a lot of money and time, you'd have to make sure you have at least three or four extra weapons.

 

Would also need a consistent source of income, assuming at some point sales of the game start slowing down.  Obviously paid DLC is not your favorite things but certainly there can be minor things you can adjust.  For example, nothing stat changing or that affects longevity too bad.  IE maps and Jason skins (except for Uber Jason I honestly think he should be sold).  But things like Counselor cloths and customization would be a good thing to have.  You could even sell weapons occasionally.

 

 

I made an example in the Maps thread:

 

Set each weapon at an immediate default price of $0.99

 

Have the said weapon be usable by one of each Jason.  Let's say only four Jasons can use it.

 

For each Jason that can use the weapon, the max price increases by one dollar.  So if this is the case, the price of said weapon would be $4.99

 

But what about those who don't wanna pay for those Jasons?  Well, you'll be able to pay for just one Jason, and if that is the case, the cost would be $1.99 for the Jason you want to buy the weapon for.

 

I think that's reasonable.  It keep things cheap for those who don't care about using a particular weapon for one Jason but wants it for another.  But you'd save money if you want to buy it for all the Jasons rather than paying for each Jason individually.

 

IDK, just my musings.

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Laphin,

 

The team here discussed this weapon a loooong time ago. We thought it was very cool and our initial thoughts were inline with yours. However, there are two primary issues why we didn't include this as his weapon. It also hinders us putting this in as DLC later.

 

1. How would Jason chop down doors/break windows with a weed whacker? As you're aware, a major portion of this game centers on doors and windows. The system we built for Jason destroying a door is based off a melee swing. Meaning whatever weapon Jason is carrying needs to be able to "chop" at the door to break it down. Now could J7 just stand there at the door with the weedwhacker turned on, going beast on the door? Wood shavings flying until the door broke? Theoretically, yes. But that requires a new "door chopping" system be built just for that one weapon. 

 

2. Each Jason has a unique weapon; thusly each Jason has unique cinematic kills tied to the aforementioned weapon. Every single cinematic kill begins with a grab first. You can't start a cinematic kill on a counselor until you've grabbed them first. The weedwhacker is more of a two-handed weapon. Granted there are Jason's in the game that DO carry two-handed weapons, but they walk around carrying it with one hand. Could J7 walk around carrying the WW with one hand? Sure, but it would need to be shorter than J6's pole. Why? Well, when Jason approaches a closed but unlocked door, he needs to be able to reach down and open it. If the WW is longer than J6's pole, then the WW would clip through the door. Not cool. 

 

3. Lastly, the aforementioned cinematic kills...we would need to motion capture new kills for that weapon, create a new rig to match and try to make these kills unique looking. I'm sure, with some thought, we could come up with a few interesting ways to kill with a WW. But all of this takes time...lots of time. To pull this off it would be roughly 4 months of work, and an estimated cost of around $75K to do correctly. 

 

Not trying to rain on your parade, just letting you know how much goes into things like this. It's rarely a lack of ideas for why things are or are not they way they are...there's usually something bigger, harder, more expensive that lies underneath the surface. ;)

 

-W

 

You're not raining on my parade.  I just like tossing ideas out, mostly because I like to keep them someplace, maybe come back to them later.  I am very aware that adding a weapon could potentially be thousands of dollars.  It's a lot of money.  Would the work out weigh the reward?

 

This is not something I wish for 'at the current' state of the game.  But once you guys HAVE money (millions), a bigger team, etc.  You never know what opportunities might open up for the game.

An awesome feature? It could be!  It would be cool to eventually see every Jason with a CP earned, secondary weapon.  That would mean more kills, more motion capture, more money, definitely..

But definitely an expense that I think would be rewarded back.

 

Jason performs all his kills via choke hold..  It could be a thing that.. if the Weed Whacker is already fired up and turned on.. it automatically goes into a random death animation of the game's own choosing when you deliver the final blow to the counselor depending on context, surroundings, inside a cabin, etc.

 

That would suck, creating new damaged doors just for one weapon... it would only make more sense if other Jasons had a similar thing going on, but I don't recall any other Jason, for the most part, using a gasoline powered device.  It is a pity.  Maybe something will click for it way later down the road.  But it's still good to keep all these things in mind, and on the backburner.

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You're not raining on my parade.  I just like tossing ideas out, mostly because I like to keep them someplace, maybe come back to them later.  I am very aware that adding a weapon could potentially be thousands of dollars.  It's a lot of money.  Would the work out weigh the reward?

 

This is not something I wish for 'at the current' state of the game.  But once you guys HAVE money (millions), a bigger team, etc.  You never know what opportunities might open up for the game.

An awesome feature? It could be!  It would be cool to eventually see every Jason with a CP earned, secondary weapon.  That would mean more kills, more motion capture, more money, definitely..

But definitely an expense that I think would be rewarded back.

 

Jason performs all his kills via choke hold..  It could be a thing that.. if the Weed Whacker is already fired up and turned on.. it automatically goes into a random death animation of the game's own choosing when you deliver the final blow to the counselor depending on context, surroundings, inside a cabin, etc.

 

That would suck, creating new damaged doors just for one weapon... it would only make more sense if other Jasons had a similar thing going on, but I don't recall any other Jason, for the most part, using a gasoline powered device.  It is a pity.  Maybe something will click for it way later down the road.  But it's still good to keep all these things in mind, and on the backburner.

 

You should see the ideas on our "back burner". If we can do 10% of them, we would melt faces. ;)

 

-W

The Razor's Edge likes this

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You should see the ideas on our "back burner". If we can do 10% of them, we would melt faces. ;)

 

-W

Well I hope you can pull out the Ark, Wes. I want to see faces melt. 

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Well i prefer the sling blade for J7 instead the machete. And the weed whacker for a future dlc. If the problem is how Jason would break the doors, then use the weed whacker as your main weapon, but when you break the doors or windows, take a machete out of your belt (?
 

PS: I do not want to post about this (because I do not know if it already exists) but would anyone else like Jason to have stats instead of "strengths / weaknesses"? Such as counselors.
Something like:
Speed: x / 10
Water speed: x / 10
Defense: x / 10
Stun resistance: x / 10
Strength: x / 10
Sense: x / 10
Morph: x / 10
Shift: x / 10
Rage: x / 10
Stealth: x / 10
 
And stats for weapons (in the future) that are divided into:
Damage per swipe
Range (how many people can hit in one stroke)
length
attack speed

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At 75K for a mocap session I'm concerned now greater than ever about future DLC. :(

 

Don't sweat future DLC. I think we'll have a decent launch. Meaning we'll make a few bucks. My intention is to put as much back into F13 as possible. We have an awesome internal wishlist and my goal is to get as much of it in the game as possible. 

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Don't sweat future DLC. I think we'll have a decent launch. Meaning we'll make a few bucks. My intention is to put as much back into F13 as possible. We have an awesome internal wishlist and my goal is to get as much of it in the game as possible. 

 

Music to my ears :) 

DamonD7 and The Phanthom Nico like this

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I brought the weed whacker thread up before ;)

and I'm 100% game for it! Wes I'm sure you guys can figure new techniques to open doors with it and instead of grab a councelor to do a kill just hack them up with no grab! I understand time money but let's hope for future DLC!

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I brought the weed whacker thread up before ;)

and I'm 100% game for it! Wes I'm sure you guys can figure new techniques to open doors with it and instead of grab a councelor to do a kill just hack them up with no grab! I understand time money but let's hope for future DLC!

Ok this talk of opening doors and grabbing counselors makes me want a Jason opening a locked door by swinging a counselor at it kill. 

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When Jason goes to grab the counselor they trip and fall to ground and Jason can hack them up. Or Jason does a push into a tree or what ever than hacks them up.

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I think that if you have the buzzsaw fully revved up then clicking the grab button as Jason should lead into an automatic buzzsaw kill animation if you land the grab.  It would make hearing the sound of the buzzsaw getting closer really intense since you will know it will lead to an automatic death.  Also, make the grab range further than a normal grab to make it more lethal.  

 

I also feel like it should have a radius around it where your fear level will begin to skyrocket and your character will begin to stumble a lot.  This will allow J7 to slowly catch up to you and if you do not find shelter in time, you will die.

 

For breaking the door down, he could just smash it in with his shoulder or something like that.

 

Of course, the clipping would be insane as the weapon is so large it would probably be clipping through walls and stuff as you walked through narrow hallways and doorways, lol.  But I am willing to put up with some clipping if we can get such an awesome weapon added to the game.

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@wes I don't mind missing out on the Weed Wacker, but hopefully in the future you all can add more weapons to swap out for the Jasons such as the Kaiser/Sling Blade, and allow any Jason to unlock and use any weapon(but they each start out with their currently assigned one).

The Phanthom Nico likes this

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Special bonus game mode where it's just J7 with weed whacker vs a bunch of doors :P

 

Like the barrel or car smashing from Street Fighter II!

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Special bonus game mode where it's just J7 with weed whacker vs a bunch of doors :P

 

Like the barrel or car smashing from Street Fighter II!

 

Do you remember the "car smashing" in Final Fight? :) One of the bad guys would walk onto the screen after the stage was complete and start crying about his car lol I always thought FF was much more memorable. I'm thinking it featured it first of the two Capcom games....although I'm not sure if it appeared in the first SF. 

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